Here you go Yoshida, hard-straight stats.

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Originally Posted by Physic

Given those options, i think this was a better choice.

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No it wasn't, this current system is freakin' idiotic. They could have easily made a low drop rate system that that rewards players properly and isn't nearly as infuriating and asinine as this one.

The fact that you have killed it 100 times proves how easy it is. The fact that it can be repeated so often justifies the low drop rates.

Bitch all you want, regardless of what system they put in place you aren't going to get your weapon anytime sooner in 99% of the cases.

Since you can transfer items in the Darkhold fight I suppose the only conclusion is that they changed it for Ifrit to make it worse so you would have to run it over and over again. I think that's pretty unethical. If I were in charge I would let players get a 100% drop and then feel free to quit the game until such time that I could put content worthy of their time investment in the game.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

If I were in charge I would let players get a 100% drop and then feel free to quit the game until such time that I could put content worthy of their time investment in the game.

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You would do that, I would expect said informed customers to be able to judge it themselves what is worth the time investment and what is not.

It's probably why you aren't managing a multinational corporation as we speak. Since your corporation would crash and burn.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

The fact that you have killed it 100 times proves how easy it is. The fact that it can be repeated so often justifies the low drop rates.

Bitch all you want, regardless of what system they put in place you aren't going to get your weapon anytime sooner in 99% of the cases.

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I don't think anyone here is complaining about the low drop rate, but rather the duplicate drops

Throwing my opinion in here along with all the other smart people.

Open the chest - - -
Items go to your loot list - - -

Make it like Darkhold... which worked fine. If you really have to have everyone open their very own chest due to some system problem related to quests, same thing. Have the drops go to that person's loot list and not directly to their inventory, or in most cases, the floor.

It's clear you did this to obtain replay value, but it's not an acceptable method. Especially not after all the other BS we have been through. *We being the fans* The fight is great, an amazing feat on such a crap game engine. Super awesome job there. This loot thing needs to be addressed however and never ever replicated.

I spent 5 years playing FFXI only to never see anything but homam head from Omega.
I had the highest attendance, and never missed s single run.
After 5 years of it, I had to quit.
Wasn't worth my time.

And you can be SURE that I will be FAR less forgiving this time around.
If I see this sh*t starting again, I'll QUICKLY end my payments.

It's the loot system that needs fixing.. Not the drop rate percentage itself. There's a huge difference between the two.

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Originally Posted by DGMart

It's the loot system that needs fixing.. Not the drop rate percentage itself. There's a huge difference between the two.

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They are very much related to each other.

Drop rate is fine,
Loot system is mean (individual loot system , just like Stronghold's coffer)
Fight is fun but too short. (What I mean is, how many of you have done speed run in Darkhold and how many of you've gotten 5 chest all together? It's as least 25 mins, not 5 mins)

Ifrit is so repetitive, quickly bored and ridiciously easy to be honest.
Stronghold is .. just a wrong way of design for partying...

If my guess is right, they will change loot system after 1.20 or 1.21, since there's more than 1 primal fight to choose with,
For now, they use individual loot system just to purposely extend lifetime of the same content over and over again.

I would honestly prefer a large cooldown on events like 24 hours, with an increased drop rate of course.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

They are very much related to each other.

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No no. If we can go in every 15 minutes and the drop rate is around 10-15%. That's pretty damn good. If we could only go in once per RL week. Then I can see someone complaining.

It's exactly as I said they are not the same. Once you have ifrit on farm where you are doing 5-10 ifrits a night or whatever, you will see how fast loot drops eventhough it's RNG. It's an average of 1 weapon per ifrit for my ls.

They need to fix the loot distribution ASAP. The current system is just garbage.

As for the Ifrit loot system, they could have made it so that 1 weapon drops at 100% chance per run to a random loot pool, that way if you wanted 8 people to have all 7 weapons, you would need to do at least 56 runs, probably many more due to doubles.. That way you'd see people doing it nearly as much as now, but without the frustration of one person (personally one of our guys who went 70+ runs without a drop. Funny thing is he was the second person in our group to get the set of 7, without any doubles I might add) recieving the same damn thing 10 times, or nothing at all.

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Originally Posted by DGMart

No no. If we can go in every 15 minutes and the drop rate is around 10-15%. That's pretty damn good. If we could only go in once per RL week. Then I can see someone complaining.

It's exactly as I said they are not the same. Once you have ifrit on farm where you are doing 5-10 ifrits a night or whatever, you will see how fast loot drops eventhough it's RNG. It's an average of 1 weapon per ifrit for my ls.

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The loot system is related to the drop rate. If they change the loot distribution to something else, the item acquisition rate will shift as well. They will have to change the drop rate to keep the current over-all balance they have deemed sufficient.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

You would do that, I would expect said informed customers to be able to judge it themselves what is worth the time investment and what is not.

It's probably why you aren't managing a multinational corporation as we speak. Since your corporation would crash and burn.

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Hahaha beeteljuice. How can you even defend the loot system for Ifrit with a straight face, lol. Classic.

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Originally Posted by ellohwell

Hahaha beeteljuice. How can you even defend the loot system for Ifrit with a straight face, lol. Classic.

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That post wasn't even related to the loot sys-

Oh. I guess that's the point. Now you got a response off me. Congrats.

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Originally Posted by ellohwell

Hahaha beeteljuice. How can you even defend the loot system for Ifrit with a straight face, lol. Classic.

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How many times have you killed Ifrit?

I've done it hmm.. lost count but it's well over 100. The fact that I've done it that many times and still feel the need to do it more (since I still enjoy it and still need 2 weapons) means mission accomplished by Yoshi-P. I'd say it's a successful system.

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Originally Posted by Buddhsie

How many times have you killed Ifrit?

I've done it hmm.. lost count but it's well over 100. The fact that I've done it that many times and still feel the need to do it more (since I still enjoy it and still need 2 weapons) means mission accomplished by Yoshi-P. I'd say it's a successful system.

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Um lol the exact same situation could be reproduced without the frustration though.

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Originally Posted by ellohwell

Um lol the exact same situation could be reproduced without the frustration though.

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Or they could make it on a 24~72 hour cool down so the items would be rare and 1/2 the server wouldn't have them already. *gasp*

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Originally Posted by ellohwell

Um lol the exact same situation could be reproduced without the frustration though.

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I could comment on that statement the exact same way 100 times and it would sound different every time.

Excellent work. The only stat that would concern me is the 0 drop rate. That should not be if you have done anything right and it sounds as if you have done it all correctly. As for the item drop rates they actually appear to be somewhat generous compared to SE's history

I am about halfway done with my 5th stack of tapers overall and I am 3/7 on ifrit drops. The 3 I got were 3 in a row starting at the 41st kill. Still without my harpoon, but our mages sure aren't without theirs. I am honestly worried that they are going to fix this crap in 1.20 when ifrit probably won't matter anymore just like they fixed the dungeon dc issue after they completely negated everything you could get in them.

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Originally Posted by Req

I am about halfway done with my 5th stack of tapers overall and I am 3/7 on ifrit drops. The 3 I got were 3 in a row starting at the 41st kill. Still without my harpoon, but our mages sure aren't without theirs. I am honestly worried that they are going to fix this crap in 1.20 when ifrit probably won't matter anymore just like they fixed the dungeon dc issue after they completely negated everything you could get in them.

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Maybe they should make it so everything after an update isn't completely worthless then hmm?

Perhaps it was an itemization rehaul side-effect

instead of an intention to make items from the past updates always worthless in the next one.

But of course it can also mean the latter option. Sure. It's possible. With advanced technology, cows, too, can fly. In theory.

woops double post

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Originally Posted by tachikoma

one thing that should have been shown in the OP's post is the total # of chests opened vs the total # of weapons collected, by saying 100 fights and # of drops its not very impacting especially from the perspective of the endgame community BUT by saying u opened:

800 chests and collected a total of 88 drops.

This helps support my theory that the chance of opening the chest with a weapon is 10%. Could someone please post the probability of getting all 7 drops in say 100 runs? or what the expected # of fights you would have to win (chests to open) to get all 7 weapons?

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It is about 1/10 chance of getting a drop. That much is pretty much proven. It is the WAY that they drop that is complete crap. You have people getting multiples of the same item over and over and over again and drops going to people that don't main the job that uses the weapon over and over and over again, and then the two scenarios combine over and over and over again. The fact that your character simply decides "lol im just going to put this weapon back in the chest because I already have one" without the ability to give it to people that actually want it is complete and utter crap.

one thing that should have been shown in the OP's post is the total # of chests opened vs the total # of weapons collected, by saying 100 fights and # of drops its not very impacting especially from the perspective of the endgame community BUT by saying u opened:

800 chests and collected a total of 88 drops. pretty close to a 10% drop rate of any weapon.

Probability:

x=10% drop rate (1/7 at the weapon you want)===>.7%{effective drop rate}
y=100 (number of runs)

1 - ( ( 1 - x ) ^ y ) = 1 - ((1-.007)^100) = 0.50463553464414735617482632768592

basically you have just over a 50% chance to get your desired weapon if you kill ifrit 100 times. I have played a lot of MMO's and this type of drop rate is not what I would consider casual or reasonable. Less then a 1% drop rate and ppl say things like:

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Originally Posted by DGMart

No no. If we can go in every 15 minutes and the drop rate is around 10-15%. That's pretty damn good. If we could only go in once per RL week. Then I can see someone complaining.

It's exactly as I said they are not the same. Once you have ifrit on farm where you are doing 5-10 ifrits a night or whatever, you will see how fast loot drops eventhough it's RNG. It's an average of 1 weapon per ifrit for my ls.

They need to fix the loot distribution ASAP. The current system is just garbage.

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Summary: less then 1% drop rate and in order to get over 50% chance at the weapon you want you need to kill him 100 times...

People who chose to make this loot system work the way it does are the same people in charge of fixing the rest of the game. This worries me.

Welcome to Final Fantasy. Some items in previous games had a 1% drop rate or lower as well. I don't see anything wrong with the drop rate, but the distribution method needs fixing.

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Originally Posted by TonyMontana

People who chose to make this loot system work the way it does are the same people in charge of fixing the rest of the game. This worries me.

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Only due to engine limitations. They have said that need/greed will be the way to go as the final loot system.

It's not really a thing to worry about until they implement something crappy and had no intention of attempting to do anything better.

Fundamentally there's nothing to be worried about - they know it's an issue, it's why I'm not omgburning to 50 so I can do the fight immediately. I think they've said they'll be dealing with this sooner than 2.0?

Even really good developers make boneheaded mistakes now and then. As long as they listen to the community, like Yoshida's proven himself capable of doing, it's not the end of the world.

hikaro jin has had some bad luck there

Whats even worse is that this was basically a copy/paste from voidwatch loot system that nobody liked, endlessly complained about since day one, they knew the system was shit long long ago and still put that in.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

I see nothing wrong with ifrit drop rate you can spam it twice an hour all day if you wanted to.

They just need to fix the stupid loot system and make them go into the lot pool like dungeons did.

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And this is the winning post.

Either SE increases the droprate and only lets you do it once every 24 hours, or they let you do it twice an hour and have shit droprate.

Pick your poison.

I will preface this post with the following: I agree that this loot distribution system is flawed and needs to be fixed.

However, it was spawned from a fundamental need on the dev team's part. Looking at it from their prospective, it is not that hard to understand what the thought process was. With the concurrent development of 2.0 and content for those of us still playing, the amount of both is going to be diminished per time period. For many reasons, they want to retain as many people during this time up until the release of 2.0 as possible. This means two things. First, they need to ensure that any content they implement in each patch will last until the next patch. Second, that over time, the set of uncompleted content grows.

The best case scenario for the dev team is one in which when they release Dark Moogle, at least one fourth to half of the endgame population still isn't done with Ifrit. At this point, they can rest assured that players will begin to have options with their end game experience.

It follows, then, that any content implemented would have to be harsh enough to keep us playing it for at least two months (at least on Ifrit, since it is currently one of the only options for what many consider true endgame content). This, in turn, is dictated by a triangle of conditions: difficulty, accessibility, and loot distribution. This dev team seems to be pretty consistent with their difficulty curve. Well informed and prepared groups consistently beat their content somewhere between one and two weeks after release.

Accessibility, on the other hand, is somewhat more complicated. In this situation, however, they were pretty much locked into only one choice. There is very little to do at 50 right now, so if they made Ifrit too inaccessible, players would have nothing to do while waiting on the cooldown and leave from boredom.

That leaves only loot distribution. The dev team needed to come up with a loot distribution system strict enough to keep people playing for at least 2-3 months despite the ease of access. They choose poorly, perhaps, but just wishing the problem away isn't going to make it better. They need a way to keep content pertinent for a relatively long duration.

At one attempt every 20-40 minutes (assuming a 5-25 minute long spread for fight duration), and endgame, hardcore player who plays at least 20 hours a week can do between 30 and 60 fights a week. Given that the dev team is likely trying to stretch content out to at least two months, that means that 100% of the population can have their desired items after between 240 to 480 attempts.

Well, let's reel that in a bit, those numbers are assuming everyone is a hard-core-20-hour-a-week player. Generally speaking, I would say that represents less than half of the population, so something closer to 120 to 240 attempts would be more reasonable. Hardcore players could be done after only 4 weeks, true, but the majority of the server would still be playing the content well into the release of Dark Moogle, which should be their goal.

Which brings us full circle to the current loot distribution. It sucks, people get double drops and end up tossing more than they are getting, but hindsight is always 20/20. It really is either this, everyone gets what they want then leave the game from sheer boredom (something I guarantee you SE will avoid at literally all costs), or exceedingly low drop rates. To do some quick napkin math - 8 people in a party each want 7 weapons for 56 drops over the course of... we'll shoot low... 120 fights. That's a 47% chance of anything dropping at all in a given fight. Given an even distribution, that's a 6% chance of any given weapon dropping.

I rather fight Ifrit less and have the dungeon's loot system than being disappointed every half hour during the night, but that is just me.

Need/greed system is STUPID!!!!!! YOU DON'T NEED ANYTHING

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Originally Posted by Visch

I been 7/7 for two weeks. And I have TWO canes.

YOU CAN GO EVERY 15 MINUTES.

It is a JOKE.

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LOL good for you and that is why you are acting like that. No regard for others.
Ive gone 2/19 Got the THM weap(lv20thm) and the Bow. Luckily my Archer is lv50.
I would have passed the thm weapon to one of my ls mates, but no we have a dumbA$$ loot system.

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Originally Posted by Keftenk

I'll point out that we didn't keep track whether we broke 0 horns, 1 horn, or 2 horns to concretely see if the drop rate was effected in any way. However with that said, we have never killed Ifrit with 0 horns still up.

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Translation: "we aren't really sure what we're doing but it's your fault anyway."