Players Who Don't pull their weight.

/yawn, /first world problems

/leaves thread :P

The only way SE could kinda address this is by making the solo quests more difficult. But even then, maybe someone is capable of being aptly competent DPS but can't heal or tank for shit, and the whole problem would cycle through again. Just like how in 3.0, there was a huge surge of DRKs who didn't understand tanking because they assumed it'd be a DPS class.

Sadly you forget this is a game for a lot of people not a way of life.

game
1.
an amusement or pastime
3.
a competitive activity involving skill, chance, or endurance on the part of two or more persons who play according to a set of rules, usually for their own amusement.


Now skill is different level.
You don't require skill to be amused.


You can't demand people care or try there hardest when you play with people that have no interest in savage content.



Think of it like this.
k-12(dungeons) doesn't really teach you anything you need as an adult( beyond basic math and reading by grade 3) but it does teach you how to learn. And while there are some really dump people out there.
Collage and university(raiding) is where really skill comes in.

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

I would like to ask you..how many of your friends have you carried for them to pass any given situation Under the cover ...they are your friends ?

-snip-.

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On Zalera we do this to our friends too. We tell them to Gitgud, We set up learning parties for them, but we will not help them farm till they step up and do their job. I on the other hand only once in a blue moon truly carry friends thru content. Cause I HATE Laziness, and that was when my friend was diagnosed with cancer and was real down and not playing up to par so I tried to cheer him up. If anything to me, being a friend, and being lazy about playing up to par; is worse than if its a random from duty finder.

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Originally Posted by Kewitt

Sadly you forget this is a game for a lot of people not a way of life.

game
1.
an amusement or pastime
3.
a competitive activity involving skill, chance, or endurance on the part of two or more persons who play according to a set of rules, usually for their own amusement.

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So is soccer.
I don't want to play soccer with someone just standing there or just kicking the ball out of the field on purpose or picking the ball up and crying 'Let me play how I want'.

So is Monopoly.
I don't want to play with someone who doesn't care at all about the game, looking all the time on their phone and after 3 times pointing out that he has to roll the dice, he's just saying 'Oh, my turn again?'

So is Hide&Seek.
I don't want to play that with someone not even trying to hide/seek.


tl.dr: Games have rules and sometimes roles, which have to be adopted and fulfilled by someone, else the game won't work as intended.

I don't think any of you are actually getting the OPs point. He's not talking about people who are attempting to do their job but just aren't very good. Those people could be giving it their 100%. I think this is more for the people who personally do nothing because they are lazy. Just last night, I was in Weeping City. Our tank was literally just standing their Autoattacking and not moving for AoEs. To me, this means he's just afk looking for a carry. This playstyle isn't punished. I see it all the time and it's flat out unnacceptable.

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

So is soccer.
I don't want to play soccer with someone just standing there or just kicking the ball out of the field on purpose or picking the ball up and crying 'Let me play how I want'.

So is Monopoly.
I don't want to play with someone who doesn't care at all about the game, looking all the time on their phone and after 3 times pointing out that he has to roll the dice, he's just saying 'Oh, my turn again?'

So is Hide&Seek.
I don't want to play that with someone not even trying to hide/seek.

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Then you play with a competitive group. I.E. PF.

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Originally Posted by Garotte14

I don't think any of you are actually getting the OPs point. He's not talking about people who are attempting to do their job but just aren't very good. Those people could be giving it their 100%. I think this is more for the people who personally do nothing because they are lazy. Just last night, I was in Weeping City. Our tank was literally just standing their Autoattacking and not moving for AoEs. To me, this means he's just afk looking for a carry. This playstyle isn't punished. I see it all the time and it's flat out unnacceptable.

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Sadly i think most people realize this, but that doesn't stop them from finding a straw-man to rage at.

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Originally Posted by Cakekizyy

Then you play with a competitive group. I.E. PF.

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If he's bad beyond repair, i can also kick him.
He can also make a pf for his demands.

Also, who's saying I'm only talking about df?

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Originally Posted by Cakekizyy

Then you play with a competitive group. I.E. PF.

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Not even PF is free of "carry me while I watch TV" players. We don't have some server wide black lists to reinforce that or something.

This is the issue tho. Who decided that DF is supposed to be trash? It could have been easily the "competitive" serious mode while PF staying the training or lazy mode. Hence why I think that one DF Q is not good enough and that it should be split up into fast-and-serious and slow-and-easy streams. Right now the more serious players are getting the short end of the stick.

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

?

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I know exactly what you mean and this is also part of the ''players who don't pull their weight'' problem. Ever seen the threads on this forum, post etc? Like on reddit? Many there say other people suck and they are actually being carried. I know when I've been carried tho, because when I do low performance and even have proof I admit it. It have happened before, but that's why in the first place I rarely play classes I know in the fights. If I do have some common knowledge how to play the class in the fight I'll give it a try. If I fail, I train myself up. Which is completely fine too, no doubt, people should have the chance to train themselves up and improve, which is the most importent key. However, I think the Op including myself talk about people who been in these fights for a long time and barely seen any noticable improvements. Their rotation might be bad as well and someone who tells them will make them aware they need a bit change.

For me it never been about making people bad, because If it was, I would never in the first place try to help. If someone has a bad attitude, why should I ignore that? I need to tell that person too, because to me, it's their atittude that needs to be fixed. Being a bad player doesn't mean they have bad attitude, it can be either lazy, no knowledge of rotation or class play, doesn't know how skills works etc. The list can go on and we are never sure of how it is. However many people refuses help and they think they are doing fine,when they aren't. This is a big problem. But I honestly like when people search up for rotations or ask people, because that means they actually care to improve. Some people don't do it but still want to improve, it's all about time when someone evenetually will tell them. And again I do agree with what you said, trying your best doesn't mean you aren't carried, because there are many who try their best but it's far from decent gameplay. I've been there and I admit it and that's excactly why I never run things with something I don't know how to play, unless I practice my rotation, try to dance the rotation with the fight.

To make it short; Yes there are people who think they perform good but they aren't good as they think they are. Then you have people who never say anything but they play bad. However, myself as a player I'm aware of how I play because I tell my friends to tell me how I perform.For me that's an importent key.

There is a clear cut difference of someone who is struggling with the game, and someone who just can't be bothered. The latter is ones who do sub 400 because they're missing auto attacks and weaponskills more than half the time, due to not paying attention to the game for whatever reason. Not only is that being a detriment to hte party, you're disregarding the whole party play to begin with, and at that point I'm honestly wondering why are you even going to be playing the game if you can't be bothered to...well...play the game.

This also goes in line with how the dungeons are designed. It's been so low-tuned up to this point, I'm surprised people consider fights like Nidhogg normal to be difficult, when the wipes boil down to people standing in telegraphed AoEs, dps not meeting checks because they don't know how to play their jobs, or people dying to deafening bellow because healers aren't topping people off when it's needed. The game doesn't push players to require those in basic dungeon play; the only detriment is that the run takes longer and really won't resolve the base problem.

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Originally Posted by Cakekizyy

Then you play with a competitive group. I.E. PF.

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If I have to start PFing in order to expect the absolute average out of people's jobs, what does that say about the community?
A few examples: Bards not using Foe's, Melees not AoEing, tanks not popping cooldowns, DRKs who don't Darkside, healers panic and heal the tank the moment they take damage in situations where it's 100% fine for them to DPS, WHMs who use Cure III on single target, Eos on Sic, etc. I don't mention things to anyone anymore (unless I'm mentor rouletting) simply because it's not worth the hassle, but as a result, things like this is the norm. I don't expect people to be savage level in anything that isn't savage, but I expect them to at least try. I'm tired of seeing people not even attempt their 3.0 rotations in boss fights and just be lazy.
Why is expecting people to apply minimum effort such a bad concept?

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Originally Posted by Khemorex

/yawn, /first world problems

/leaves thread :P

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No offence, but each time a thread like this show up. You always say things like this. And it gives me a bad feeling of how you are as a player.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

This is my very own opinion, but the "problem" about this game is that it has gathered many different audiences:

- WoW playerbase. FFXIV was more fresh and looked better, so some people migrated. PC
- FFXI playerbase. Same as the above. PC
- FF console fans. A large group of players that tried for the first time an MMO because final fantasy. Console

I'd say the first 2 groups are midcore on average (with a few hardcore groups), but the last group is a mix of players. Some of the people from the third group adapted to how an MMO works, but there are others that haven't, and the result is having Black Mages spamming blizzard III because resourceless DPS infinite mana. These players very often tell you to let them play the way they want, because they still think they are in FFX where they'd spam one spell and everything would blow up.
So the problem resides in having too different people with too different ambitions. Hell, there are people that have beautiful glamours but then they enter a dungeon with their i230 MNK and do 1k DPS, trust me people do seem to play this game for many different reasons xd.

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Are you trying to say that console players can't read skill descriptions? No, the main problem here isn't console vs pc at least as far as dungeon-running.

And for Jetstream_fox, comparing nin not using suiton effectively to not aoe'ing properly is hilarious. Sure a NIN should use suiton effectively, but on a single target 10% party damage boost up 1/6 of the time is under a 2% boost. Where a NIN single-targetting a 6-mob pull is losing nearly 2/3 of their damage potential.

So you're complaining I'm ignoring your focus on a 2% loss while I'm talking about a 67% loss on the bigger part of time in dungeons and some pulls are easily bigger than that.

I think we should have a new vote option such as "Vote Electric Shock" and everyone playing must be "wired up" to receive their punishment should a majority of random players decide they need to vent their frustration on you. This is the ONLY way that we will ever fix the problem of not being able to fully manifest our rage and frustration. That person on the other end of said disrespectful character can no longer ignore upsetment directed at them; they will, literally, be able to feel the anger.

My opinion goes back and forth on the OP's attitude that I see. For one thing, I'm not sure where you guys are finding these people, as I might run into the occasional doorstop player in DF, but it appears if I read the forums right, this is a widespread epidemic. Maybe I just have a sense of optimism, or a higher tolerance threshold than most. To me:

There's those that clearly aren't trying. Repeatedly die to the same mechanics, generally show zero to little improvement in performance throughout an encounter, or show very little thought to gear or rotation. While they may have had this attitude the whole time, this also applies to high-end players that are just straight-up bored with the instance/game and while capable of doing well, choose not to for the encounter. Then, when called out, resort to out-right trolling that in some cases forces a vote abandon.

There's those that have a learning curve, or other technical difficulties that keep them from fully taking the encounter head-on. Might die to the same mechanic a few times or different ones, but overall learn as they go along and try to do what they can. Maybe they picked up something new for their rotation or don't understand how a skill works and it's not going as smooth as it should be, and could probably use a suggestion. Or significant/inconsistent latency problems are making AoEs more difficult to dodge than they should be.

There's those that are on top of things and doing what they should. Solid rotation, general awareness of what's going on, using their support skills as needed. If they're of the helping mood, they'll give advice to groups 1 and 2, although group 2 will take it better than group 1 will. They also are in the best position to recognize those in group 1 for what they're doing and kick them for the good of groups 2 and themselves (and 4, if they haven't bailed yet).

Then there's those that require every instance to be one-shot. They leave on the first wipe, or if not as bold, will spam vote abandon as soon as it's available. "Forget the people in group 2!", they say, "This is hopeless." They're in a raid static, why should they have to drop down to everyone else's level when they've got this content memorized like the back of their hand? They might even say that a certain mechanic is JUST like [insert endgame raid here] without any kind of explanation whatsoever of just WHAT makes the two similar. If they get particularly irritated, they may resort to trolling antics that place them in group 1.

What I tend to read here is very little acknowledgement of a "grey" area, groups 2 and 3. And these groups get shafted the most when instances are abandoned. Particularly group 2, who's progress is significantly hindered by early vote abandons and the cluelessness of group 1, as some may have the kind of learning requirements where jumping into a new instance forces them to relearn everything over again with new people. The dev team can't do much about player skill, although they've begun introducing new graphic effects that better hint at what to do and training tools like the Hall of the Novice and Stone, Sea, Sky. To this end, it's up to the playerbase itself to get smart: kick those who won't learn, and play content as far as possible before choosing to abandon.

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Originally Posted by Kazumac

I think we should have a new vote option such as "Vote Electric Shock" and everyone playing must be "wired up" to receive their punishment should a majority of random players decide they need to vent their frustration on you. This is the ONLY way that we will ever fix the problem of not being able to fully manifest our rage and frustration. That person on the other end of said disrespectful character can no longer ignore upsetment directed at them; they will, literally, be able to feel the anger.

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Oh idk, I think a player doing a roulette right before a reset feels a bit of pain in getting kicked. Had a tank a week ago pulled 3 bosses in a row in mhach and we made it clear we were asking people to wait and roll on loot to kick him, this was very close to the weekly reset. He started changing his tone and said he'd start playing nice but people weren't having it, and booted him. So he very likely lost his armor for the week and maybe even the penny/mhachi matter.

And that's a lot more satisfying than thinking somebody who deserved it got a shock because of it.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Don't hold your breath for any such "ranking" feature to be added for faceroll-easy content like dungeons. Folks who won't play to their class's potential (lazy or stubborn), folks who CAN'T play to their class's potential (physically or mentally handicapped)? Their money is as green as anyone else's, and SE wants that money. SE WANTS experienced players to carry these folks. Preferably teach them, as well, but the important thing is for them to feel included, feel that they're making progress, and keep them subscribed. Don't expect any features to be added to the game that will alienate them.

And, for content like dungeons, there's honestly little harm in it. So your 20-minute dungeon run becomes 30 minutes instead because your DPS won't aoe (or can't seem to understand why it's a good idea)? Boo hoo. Suck it up, and spend those extra ten minutes. The more bads we keep interested in the game, the more money the game makes, and the more they can invest in making the game better. There is NO good justification for elitism when it comes to faceroll content. That MNK wearing all MND accessories? Carry them hard. That role-playing "Ice Mage"? Carry them hard. That CNJ who refuses to cast Cure spells? Carry them... er, well, okay, that one might be tough.

It only becomes an issue when it comes to harder stuff, like raids or Ex primals - and for that stuff, it's already blatantly obvious that you should be forming your own parties. A few folks will be lucky enough to blunder into a group solid enough (and tolerant enough) to carry them, but most will realize that they either need to step up their game or if they won't (or can't) that some content is just too advanced for them.

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^ Stumbling through this thread, this post makes the most sense. If everyone had an attitude similar to this we'd be a closer-knit community.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

The game doesn't push players to require those in basic dungeon play.

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This is really all the monster SE created. By designing the vast majority of content to be cruise control, it eventually leads to players in having low self expectations when it comes to performing at least semi par. It doesn't help either with SE in a hurry it seems to nerf their own content. Either with ECHO or taking out certain elements. Remember AK? Granted I'm not the best player in the patch but even I found the nerfs to Demon Wall largely questionable. Steps of Fate? Nerfed because it didn't meet the cruise control standard of the game. I forget the dungeon's name but the one with the Siren boss? Players got it in daily roulette and promptly left because again, it wasn't cruise control standards. So it got nerfed. Everything else? Here have the ECHO buff. Nidhogg will no doubt see the same fate eventually as will all future content that isn't deemed cruise control worthy.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

Oh idk, I think a player doing a roulette right before a reset feels a bit of pain in getting kicked. Had a tank a week ago pulled 3 bosses in a row in mhach and we made it clear we were asking people to wait and roll on loot to kick him, this was very close to the weekly reset. He started changing his tone and said he'd start playing nice but people weren't having it, and booted him. So he very likely lost his armor for the week and maybe even the penny/mhachi matter.

And that's a lot more satisfying than thinking somebody who deserved it got a shock because of it.

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My sarcastic post is pretty much in support of what you said. Outside of physically causing someone pain (which would be absurd), I agree the in game options to remove a player (punish them), vote abandon or remove youself from a group is quite sufficient.

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Originally Posted by Aylis

This is really all the monster SE created. By designing the vast majority of content to be cruise control, it eventually leads to players in having low self expectations when it comes to performing at least semi par. It doesn't help either with SE in a hurry it seems to nerf their own content. Either with ECHO or taking out certain elements. Remember AK? Granted I'm not the best player in the patch but even I found the nerfs to Demon Wall largely questionable. Steps of Fate? Nerfed because it didn't meet the cruise control standard of the game. .

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Steps is a bit of it's own category because of how the fight is presented; it's misleading at worst with the npc dialogue/instructions, it takes 10 minutes for a wipe (which is inevitable if you've missed dragonkillers and your party isn't over geared, the latter being very likely since it's a MSQ trial)

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Originally Posted by Aylis

. I forget the dungeon's name but the one with the Siren boss? Players got it in daily roulette and promptly left because again, it wasn't cruise control standards. So it got nerfed.

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This and madpoor keep had the problem of it being relatively overturn in comparison to the other dungeons. It was high demand for the same reward, which at that point wasn't optimal. From what I hear anywy.

Just do what I do OP, when im tanking and get a lazy healer who throws out the odd heal here and there, I jut pull more and use less cooldowns, if they cant be bothered why should I.

Sadly not much can be done about poor dps other than bringing it up or kicking them.

There are a lot of reasons why people perform poorly in dungeons, and it's pretty much impossible to know if someone's being lazy. It can be age related, it can be a slow learner, someone who's terrified of playing with strangers, someone with a physical or mental handicap, it can be someone with concentration issues, etc. Then you have latency issues, people playing on PS vs. PC, and stuff like that. Maybe someone's having trouble keeping their focus because of RL, like a breakup, a death in the family, lost their job or whatever. You don't know what's going on behind the characters you meet, so you should be careful when you judge.

And yes, there is definitely a talent thing involved. Some people are more talented in video games, just like someone is much better at soccer or drawing, or that some people have 10 thumbs when holding a hammer. And if you play very casually, maybe a few hours a week, you will not be at the skill level that someone who plays every day is at.

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Originally Posted by Laerune

I have to agree with OP that there is a big group of players who do not want to pull their own weight, sometimes those players dont do it, because its easy for other players to carry them. I was doing a trial this morning and as a healer, I am used to doing damage and healing. I dont mind, if a healer is doing damage or not, but they should atleast be able to do their own role which is to heal. I was in this trial and this boss has phase where he only does damage to the tank, so I pop a regen and go back in Cleric Stance and help the team with doing damage. I keep a eye on my co-healer and see that he is not in Cleric Stance, which to me means that he will not do damage. Boss damages tank and the tank reaches 70% HP, I think to myself that the healer will probably heal the tank when his HP is much lower. Tank HP reach 50%, I start to get worried, Tank HP reaches 30%, I get out of Cleric Stance and heal the tank. My co-healer was doing nothing during that phase, only looking at the boss. This has happend many times when healing with a non FC/LS/friend co-healer.

No matter what, a player should atleast be able to do the basic stuff, which means for healer to heal, for tank to keep agro and for dps to do damage and right now alot of players are failling this. This would not have been a issue if they were newcomers, but we are talking about level 60 players with ilevel 230-240 gear.

There is a difference between being bad and not caring. From what I have experienced, most players are not bad at this game, they just dont care.

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Honestly, I would vote kick that person after we cleared because it's very obvious they simply wanted you to carry them through a roulette. Chances are they were alt-tabbed or AFK'd.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

And, for content like dungeons, there's honestly little harm in it. So your 20-minute dungeon run becomes 30 minutes instead because your DPS won't aoe (or can't seem to understand why it's a good idea)? Boo hoo. Suck it up, and spend those extra ten minutes. The more bads we keep interested in the game, the more money the game makes, and the more they can invest in making the game better. There is NO good justification for elitism when it comes to faceroll content. That MNK wearing all MND accessories? Carry them hard. That role-playing "Ice Mage"? Carry them hard. That CNJ who refuses to cast Cure spells? Carry them... er, well, okay, that one might be tough.

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The principle matters too, sometimes more than the effect. I will not allow myself to be exploited by anyone for any reason. What these people are doing matters less to me than why they are doing it. I have all the time in the world for someone who is genuinely trying but not doing very well, and not a single moment for someone that just can't be arsed and wants me to do all the work for them.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Honestly, I would vote kick that person after we cleared because it's very obvious they simply wanted you to carry them through a roulette. Chances are they were alt-tabbed or AFK'd.

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Or botting. You'd be surprised how competent a person can look until you do something odd that throws them into chaos.

Don't we love the duty finder pug groups, don't you feel all the positive energy it has created over doing content with like minded individuals on your own server. Nope need to get those tomes brah f' it I carry this crap in need my tomes to gets my gears brah.

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Originally Posted by odintius

Don't we love the duty finder pug groups, don't you feel all the positive energy it has created over doing content with like minded individuals on your own server. Nope need to get those tomes brah f' it I carry this crap in need my tomes to gets my gears brah.

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Yeah, I gotta go fast so I can show off mah gear in Idlyshire so everyone can see how awesome I am while I advertise for ERP

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Originally Posted by Sipherous

Playing a role beyond 100% is called maximizing. A 100% tank is in tank stance holding hate effectively and not letting mobs wander, a 110% tank would be a tank holding hate and doing more DMG than most people would think possible and making it easier on everyone else to clear through trash. Same goes for a healer who can heal DPS and do mroe DPS. A DPS just has to push big numbers all the time. Really if we were to go by a standard if a dungeon par time is say 20min a 110% team can push it in 15, 12 even 10 min if they know their roles.

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What you're describing as more than 100% is actually 100%. What you think 100% is, is really 80-90%. 100% is 100% for a reason. Please learn to logic, spell, and grammar and stop crying.

You know, I used to be exactly like the OP in that I put in the effort to ensure I am performing at maximum performance and I expected everyone else to do the same and didn't feel like "carrying" people who I perceived as not putting in their effort.

Until I let my 9 (soon to be 10) year old play with me. For his age, he is doing a bang up job, listening to instructions, understanding mechanics, doing optimal rotations. However, what he lacks is just "experience" or what we most commonly know as "raid awareness." He is already overwhelmed with ensuring he is doing everything right that when something goes wrong, his decision making is not optimal, like what happens when you lose aggro on a mob as a tank? Well, I would consider about 10 variables instantly before deciding what to do (who is the mob going to, how much health remaining on mob, how much health remaining on the one who pulled aggro, how many other mobs am I tanking, what are the mob's mechanics, what are my current mob's mechanics, etc etc etc) and I make the optimal choice based on my awareness of the situation. Unfortunately, my son cannot possibly make the same optimal decision simply because he has not been gaming in general as long as I have.

So now, I go into every DF with this thought. Whenever someone is under performing or is slow or don't hit the optimal rotations or gets hit with AOE, I just think it's possible that person is another 9 year old, having fun in an MMO, trying his best and as long as they don't throw attitude, I'm so very proud of their effort and would be glad to "carry" them and offer them mentorship. I often find people do things when everything goes exactly right but it's when things don't go as planned when the cracks begin to show.

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Originally Posted by Stormbad

So now, I go into every DF with this thought. Whenever someone is under performing or is slow or don't hit the optimal rotations or gets hit with AOE, I just think it's possible that person is another 9 year old, having fun in an MMO, trying his best and as long as they don't throw attitude, I'm so very proud of their effort and would be glad to "carry" them and offer them mentorship. I often find people do things when everything goes exactly right but it's when things don't go as planned when the cracks begin to show

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Exactly this. I only know how to play BLM, so when I see another BLM I try and help them if they are "underperforming", but I don't get mad at them or the tank.
Usually if I'm pulling hate or something I'll look at the tanks gear and realize I out iLevel them by 40 or more.

I don't think I've ever gotten mad at another player, even when the tank makes me lose my Huton or Enochian because he's taking too long in between pulls.

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Originally Posted by Stormbad

I just think it's possible that person is another 9 year old, having fun in an MMO.

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This is possible, yet unlikely. There is a reason why the box has age 16+ written on it. By letting your kid to have fun you are basically forcing the other players to babysit it for you. Idk how to feel about that. It's one thing if it is done in the premade group of friends, but I don't think it is a great idea in the group of random people.

But I am up for treating everyone like 9 year kid. If we see that the player is underperforming let's stop and spend half hour teaching them how to improve. It could actually make the player base magically better when all the runs take more than one hour.

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Originally Posted by TankHunter678

By breaking limits like only a Warrior of Light can.

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I CAN BREAK THOSE LIMITS TOO!

*Strains enormously. Pulls something. Sits down to cry.

I didn't break them. Now I'm sad!

The human condition.

While I have found myself occasionally sharing the OP's frustration (as well as occasionally been on the other side of the fence), we must not forget that this is a videogame... It's not a job. You are not paying other players with your subscription, and no one is paying you to do your 110%. People simply play the way they enjoy it. If you like to go all-out with your "potential", by all means do. But there will be people who don't like to cast Stone as healers, and people who don't like to keep Heavy Thrust up. It's as simple as that, and no one should be "punished" for it.

If you don't like how your party members are performing, just Leave the duty. Personally, unless they're causing wipes, I just ignore them and don't let it get to me. Maybe I'll vent/joke about it in my FC chat, and that'll be enough to exhaust my frustration.

Played all roles while leveling to 60s. Tanks that out geared me would loose aggro to the party, some listened to advice and adjusted some took it as offense. DPS at 60 cant hit 300 in a lvl 60 dungeon.

Healers that just stand around or non stop heal me at 99% HP, I just start pulling more adds and turning of Grit. It works because now we have extra DPS coming from me and the healer is having fun healing me.

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Originally Posted by Archaell

This is possible, yet unlikely. There is a reason why the box has age 16+ written on it. By letting your kid to have fun you are basically forcing the other players to babysit it for you. Idk how to feel about that. It's one thing if it is done in the premade group of friends, but I don't think it is a great idea in the group of random people.

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I understand where you're coming from. I just want to make some clarifications. FFXIV is rated ESRB Teen, which is generally 13 and up. This rating is based on the content of the game (alcohol, sex, etc) and does not reflect the difficulty of the game or online interactions with other people.

With that said, I don't agree that having him play in DF is forcing people to babysit him, that's a far reach. The one time he did DF without me, I watched him go through the dungeon the first time (Brayflox) and he followed everyone's directions just fine with the only flaw going a little slower because of first time, but even then it clearly showed he was a sprout and there was a first time bonus.

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Originally Posted by Stormbad

I understand where you're coming from. I just want to make some clarifications. FFXIV is rated ESRB Teen, which is generally 13 and up.

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It's also rated PEGI 16.
You can slap a number on anything but I think the majority of players are older, rather than younger.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stormbad

Until I let my 9 (soon to be 10) year old play with me.

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1. This game is ranked as 16+
2. This is an online game, and not everyone (not anyone?) is polite here. So it may have some really bad experience. What if some drunken jerk appears in a same group with your 9 years old?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vp_cmc

1. This game is ranked as 16+
2. This is an online game, and not everyone (not anyone?) is polite here. So it may have some really bad experience. What if some drunken jerk appears in a same group with your 9 years old?

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What does this have anything to do with the topic? And to answer your second question, he'll do exactly what he'll do in real life when some drunken jerk is near him.