If you leveled Conjurer expecting to be a black mage type character.. Can you swap?

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Originally Posted by Teakwood

Basically, assuming that jobs have to evolve naturally out of their classes lorewise assumes that the "protect everyone and save Eorzea" job, Paladin, evolves naturally from "A PIRATE DOES WHAT A PIRATE WANTS, YARRR" and "paid to fight bloody duels to the death in a sandy pit for the entertainment of rich, amoral Lalafell".

It's more like "you already have a particular skill set, this makes you a prime candidate to learn something else in-character that builds off of that skill set but isn't particularly related to that skill set's story".

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Marauder is warrior though, more like a viking. In a way it makes a lot of sense. Paladin on the other hand could be quite interesting. I always imagine jobs to be like class sects. Perhaps there are gladiators that take pride in their skills and fight on behalf of the twelve and have sworn to protect blah blah.

Conjurers are peaceful, but you could have a private sect who are more focused on healing and that particular strain of white magic. It's a very interesting idea, and while it does have a lot of basis in skills we currently have, that's the way it ought to be as Jobs are really just that. A distinct specific branch of that particular class.

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Originally Posted by Bowen

Wha? CNJ can actually deal dmg? Since when? O_o I do Toto runs all the time as CNJ and always try to Nuke stuff (Yes, I used all my buffs {Profundity etc. . .} and things before hand I even made sure that Banish stuck so that Fire, Aero, and Thunder spells could become more powerful even if only a tiny bit)

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I have no trouble dealing damage as Conjurer. With the proper gear and buffs you can do quite well at 50. Especially with AM.

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Originally Posted by Firon

You said it right there the other guild you are talking is not the guild you(we) join. We are the EVIL THM's not the good ones get that through your head.

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While I agree with you, your pure arrogance never ceases to amaze me.

Nuke with the correct element and CNJ's damage is great, especially at high levels.

I forget where it was said but someone had the idea that CNJ would keep the nukes of the astral aligned elements and THM would get the nukes of the umbral aligned elements. If they move any of the elemental spells at all I'd imagine it would be like that, but I doubt they will move the nukes around. BLM will probably just be specialized for attack magic no matter what the source, or maybe just umbral magic. It would leave THM with an opening for a astral magic nuker or something else as a future job.

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Originally Posted by Holland

A completely new class, I believe Tamer or Beastmaster will be the class for the Job Summoner. While the class will only be able to tame/charm existing fiends in the field, making his arsenal limited; The Summoner, as the name implies, will simply summon beasts/aeons/GF's from the aether ;x

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Ohhh snap! Looks like there's more leveling in my future. :P This would be a cool way of doing it though.

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Originally Posted by Scherwiz

While I agree with you, your pure arrogance never ceases to amaze me.

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^Thanks for the compliment i like that :).

Also can we stop acting like elemental spells are the only spells in the game tied to elements just think about that. By most peoples reasoning in this thread, that since con worships elements THM shouldn't have a single spell with an element tied to it. They should just hand over shadow-sear, Banish and, Scourge to CON cause they have elements tied to them -.-

I saw a few comments that I wanted to.. comment on. :D

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Originally Posted by Gramul

Well, yes, but what else would white mage be?
We have one other magic class and it's all about the exact opposite of what a white mage is like.

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Gramul, you love posting and ignoring all of the information around you. As a result, your posts are annoying. Do you really think anyone is sitting around in this thread thinking of who the white mage would be? Do you realize the topic of this thread? Your post is totally off topic. Was there a job system at release? I didn't think so. That's why it doesn't matter who ended up as the white mage. The topic at hand is what happens to those who leveled up a class before this decision to change roles was released. Do you see why you are off-topic?

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Originally Posted by Brannigan

Only conjurer has aoe healing, status cures, and powerful resurrections... which are the core of a healer.

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This seems like a very powerful argument against someone.. oh wait, wait wait a second.. that's right wasn't Thaumaturge the job with the most powerful aoe healing up until a recent patch? Hmmm.. why doesn't your post make any sense now? That's right, it's because you aren't paying attention. Thank you for posting nonsense. Please return when you understand the discussion.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

I confess I don't really know all that much about them though.

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The concept of a Thaumaturge outside of FFXIV is that of a miracle worker. I realize you're returning to the old topic of whether the lore backs up the job system, and that is just another reason why it could have gone either way. The Thaumaturges in FFXIV seem darker than Conjurers mainly because of spells like Sacrifice and Blood Rite. So that's why it makes sense for them to get a dark job over a fluffy, healing job. However, the mages in this game were designed not to have exclusive roles, which presents some issues when exclusive roles are going to be introduced.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Only CNJ received spell changes in the last patches that enhanced its healing abilities. The facts were in your face from months ago, if you decided to keep being in denial you deserve everything you get.

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You know, I have always thought you display poor character. I remember all the way back when you posted in my Japanese earthquake disaster thread callously demanding Yoshi-P give you a patch update after he responded that the team was ALIVE. Calling you insensitive would be doing you a huge favor. With that in mind, I see that you have made the offensive remark that players are in denial and deserve to have their progress reset. Only you could make such a bad remark, but for anyone wondering why this is a baseless comment from a bad poster, the reason no one is in denial is because character progress took place before a job system (and it's 1 job 1 class details) were ever announced. That's also why no one deserves to come back from a break and discover that their healer at 50 (THM) is now a black mage or their nuker (CNJ) at 50 is not a white mage, without any way at all to ease that transition.

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Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi

you should have see it incoming

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see above.

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Originally Posted by Bowen

Pretty much, If they leave the lore as it is, then CNJ getting WHM would make no bloody sense. For one, they would lose Elemental spells, the very things that define what a CNJ is. Oh, and they are probably going to have to change the cities that you find their guilds in since, why would THMs who are now the elementalists live in a desert and not in the forest where the power of the elementals are greater?

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You bring up some good points. Will THMs be elementalists? And will CNJs get some kind of lame lore addition explaining why all of a sudden they are master healers? My guess is that they will leave lore for the job system and only loosely tie it in with classes. They are really getting themselves in a bind by basing a job on a class. In FFXI, they could do whatever lore they wanted since an unlocked job started at level 1. Interesting problems. I hope they handle it gracefully and with respect to the excellent lore already written.

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Originally Posted by Holland

It makes sense when the main job of the Conjurers in Gridania is the balance and peace with the spiritual beings of Eorzea, that they are named "Elementals" is of no relevance. They granted CNJ the most powerful revive spell the game has to offer at 50, if that didn't provide some hindsight as to who is WHM then.. I don't know what else...

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The problem with your post is that you're mixing original lore with a management decision to add a raise spell made after the leadership change. You cannot make a good point unless you can back yourself up with a convincing argument.

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Originally Posted by Oscillate_Wildly

You should still be able to use Conjurer to deal damage though. I don't know why everyone is feeling bad about this. ): Jobs aren't the end to everything and are only one of the ways in which to play the game. Jobs are very...centric. But they shouldn't unbalance the game to make them absolutely necessary in every single situation, and I hope that they don't. :S

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I'm feeling kinda bad because I have this superficial drive to cast ice spells that do non-inconsequential damage. That is actually the shallow reason I decided to play a magic caster to begin with. So, while your suggestion is great about THMs getting different attack magic, I would rather that they give the black mage elemental magic too so I can be happy. lol. Quite honestly these two classes were never meant to be divided, and we would be better off if they just wiped them from the game and just had a strict black mage and white mage. I love my Conjurer lore, but it's very lame watching them wipe the floor with it. Now they're also removing guild marks, and the Conjurer guild abilities were always something I enjoyed. Instead of horribly disfiguring Conjurers I would rather they just put them out of their misery.. but not without giving us options. Of course, we know that isn't going to happen and instead something ridiculous like a Conjurer that can't cast elemental magic is most likely going to be what happens. I don't get the feel from the dev team that they're particularly sentimental about this current game we're playing. So that's why I'm sad. lol.

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That's also why no one deserves to come back from a break and discover that their healer at 50 (THM) is now a black mage or their nuker (CNJ) at 50 is not a white mage, without any way at all to ease that transition.

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Except their 50 THM is still 50 THM, with slightly altered spell set-up at worst. I can not see how they could make the transition any easier to cope with. You are the exact same class you leveled before, and now you also have an extra layer on top of that.

People come back and notice that their THM is still THM.

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I remember all the way back when you posted in my Japanese earthquake disaster thread callously demanding Yoshi-P give you a patch update after he responded that the team was ALIVE.

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Yes, like a week or two after said post. There's a point at which you need to get on with life, especially as a business trying to compete in a worldwide marketplace. It is a ruthless place. Deal with it.

I'm sorry but con has always been a terrible nuker since the birth of the game. THM's Scourge and Shadow-sear make all con spells look like jokes.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Except their 50 THM is still 50 THM, with slightly altered spell set-up at worst. I can not see how they could make the transition any easier to cope with. You are the exact same class you leveled before, and now you also have an extra layer on top of that.

People come back and notice that their THM is still THM.



Yes, like a week or two after said post. There's a point at which you need to get on with life, especially as a business trying to compete in a worldwide marketplace. It is a ruthless place. Deal with it.

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Doesn't help your reputation, because you were the first person to try to derail that topic when you could have made another thread. You were just taking advantage of the visibility, which is poor character.

As for the problem with your thinking, are you assuming people coming back have no interest in party play or endgame content? Because that's the only way someone wouldn't be a little upset if their healer build was now a black mage. Why are you against the idea of the dev team laying out a smooth transition for people like that? You have nothing to gain by dismissing that other than whatever feeling you get from asserting your own poorly thought through statements. I think making a choice to support other players and sacrificing that small bit of satisfaction is a pretty good trade off.

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Doesn't help your reputation, because you were the first person to try to derail that topic when you could have made another thread.

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Why use another thread when yours was perfectly fine? Doesn't make much sense, but alright.

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Because that's the only way someone wouldn't be a little upset if their healer build was now a black mage.

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Nope, their healer build is largely unaffected. Plus they now have the option to become even better healers than before.

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Why are you against the idea of the dev team laying out a smooth transition for people like that?

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It's already smooth enough. They aren't really changing anything people have accomplished before. They are adding another layer on top of it.

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Because that's the only way someone wouldn't be a little upset if their healer build was now a black mage.

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Honestly Neptune i don't think a single THM since 1.18 has even been trying be a healer for these past 6 months.(I think its been 6 months)
Only person who thought thm has been a healer up untill now is you lol

Lore wise, thm are priests. It makes more sense for them to be whm.

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Originally Posted by lordvr

Lore wise, thm are priests. It makes more sense for them to be whm.

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lol /10char

THM should become RDM and enfeeble the hell out of everything :P

I know that I have a 50 CNJ, but I dont think swamp is necessary with the current exp curve, take a class to 50 will be max 2 weeks if you re very lazy

This should not be an optin imo. Its the same as if when the archers where no longer the best DD they should be given the otion to be rank 50 lancers instead.

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Originally Posted by SihrBahn

THM should become RDM and enfeeble the hell out of everything :P

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Awesome sig btw mate.

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Originally Posted by lordvr

Lore wise, thm are priests. It makes more sense for them to be whm.

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Just look at the whole GLA + MRD = PLD and you will realize that the current lore means nothing when it comes to jobs. In fact, expect either

A - All class lore changed to match jobs (HIGHLY UNLIKELY)

B - Job lore being "different" than usual. IE, FFXIV Paladins aren't exactly goody two shoes STOP RIGHT THERE CRIMINAL SCUM guys.

C - Job lore being tied into company lore as something from the past companies. The current companies are accepting everyone who's "capable" of learning whatever the old warriors were able to do and all "job lore" is simply some background info about past Paladins and their exploits; all we adventurers do then is just learn their skills, not follow their beliefs and ideals.

I'm very sad, I won't be taking a job now:(
I was 99% sure it would be that way, but until they introduce a job for me to be the elemental/ancient spell casting DMG deal monster I wanted to be, I won't be getting any jobs.
*cry*

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Originally Posted by AdvancedWind

Just look at the whole GLA + MRD = PLD and you will realize that the current lore means nothing when it comes to jobs. In fact, expect either

A - All class lore changed to match jobs (HIGHLY UNLIKELY)

B - Job lore being "different" than usual. IE, FFXIV Paladins aren't exactly goody two shoes STOP RIGHT THERE CRIMINAL SCUM guys.

C - Job lore being tied into company lore as something from the past companies. The current companies are accepting everyone who's "capable" of learning whatever the old warriors were able to do and all "job lore" is simply some background info about past Paladins and their exploits; all we adventurers do then is just learn their skills, not follow their beliefs and ideals.

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A is exactly what they should do. The game needs to make sense if they want anyone to become attached to it. A new player coming in is going to be like WTF.

B most likely will not happen because they know the players would rage at things not being iconic enough again.

C is probably what will happen, but that doesn't make it any less lame.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

C is probably what will happen, but that doesn't make it any less lame.

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That's what I believe will happen as well. The fact we can equip and remove "jobstones" at will is already a good hint; lore wise they will likely be similar to FFX-2 dresspheres.

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Originally Posted by Teakwood

Basically, assuming that jobs have to evolve naturally out of their classes lorewise assumes that the "protect everyone and save Eorzea" job, Paladin, evolves naturally from "A PIRATE DOES WHAT A PIRATE WANTS, YARRR" and "paid to fight bloody duels to the death in a sandy pit for the entertainment of rich, amoral Lalafell".

It's more like "you already have a particular skill set, this makes you a prime candidate to learn something else in-character that builds off of that skill set but isn't particularly related to that skill set's story".

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Thank you!

Jobs will have their own storylines that don't necessarily have anything to do with established class lore. I do wish people would stop using class lore as if it were a relevant argument for jobs.

You can get a job from 1-50 in 2 weeks of casual leveling... I don't think it will be a big deal for people to level it :P

if you leveled the wrong one. it is hardly a big deal as you can play all classes

Who's to say the lore wont completely change in 2.0 Yoshi-P has stated several times that some quest will be rerolled and you will have to do them again. In other words they might redo all the class quest in 2.0.

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Originally Posted by Manafont

everything will be 50 by then and once 1.21 hits and the cap is raised im taking my mage classes to max first

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Who said anything about the cap being raised in 1.21?

so what are thaumaturges actually supposed to do in leveling parties? their only nukes are banish and scourge.

Sure you can swap. You can swap by leveling THM. It's not hard, it'll take maybe a week or two and it's a fun class to play.

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Originally Posted by Coglin

Added helpfull clarification.

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1.) They do not worship the tree stump. The lifemend stump is where Gridanians go to implore the help of the moogles, such as to fix broken things or enchant the masks to clear woodsin.

2.) I was unaware that white mage got blizzard, fire, aero, stone, etc in prior final fantasy games. I guess that must be cause i'm an XI player. (where did this even come from?)

3.) Conjurers do one thing, the bidding of the elementals, for good or ill. The only lives they are interested in bettering are their own and their fellow Gridanians.

Maybe i'm wrong, but don't most mages have the other only mage class max level as well for cross class abilities? Or at the very least a good head start in capping the other class, so it wouldn't be too painful to level especially knowing this now when the patch is still a ways off. Agreed this comes as no real surprise after the patch giving CNJ more healer oriented spells.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

I was unaware that white mage got blizzard, fire, aero, stone, etc in prior final fantasy games. I guess that must be cause i'm an XI player. (where did this even come from?)

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Go play a few FF games other then FFXI.........alot of the spells YOU claim as inherintly WHM are BLM abilities and vice versa.

But again you twist words around in some odd attemt to change the facts that are......I never said the elemental nukes are WHM abilities at base in other FF games, although in some they do have elemental magics.....BUT most of the spells outside of the elemental nukes are inherently BLM.......


Protip: Black Mage DOES NOT mean elementalist.

Once you get rid of that mindset, the relationships are easy to see. If you play through the CONJ and THM story quests, you'll see that the conj are essentially elemental worshiping priests, while the thm are more.... hitman-esque.

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Originally Posted by Coglin

Go play a few FF games other then FFXI.........alot of the spells YOU claim as inherintly WHM are BLM abilities and vice versa.

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Oh really? which ones and what game?

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Originally Posted by Coglin

when you have THM only to 10.........secondly alot of games...

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this alt has thm to 21. but my other alt has thm to 50

Digressing to OP: I don't think you should be able to switch. I'm guessing quite a few arcs don't want to be bards, should we let them switch to another dow? it was just an unlucky event for you that you put all your eggs in one basket and that they gave blm to thm. /comfort (prolly more than you will get from SE)

White Mage = Healer
Black Mage= Damage Dealer

All of the lore for "what kind of healer" or "what kind of damage" hasn't come out yet.

I, for one, leveled CNJ to be a healer - because it had Cure, which is the single iconic heal spell of Final Fantasy. Arguing WHM/BLM based on what color our damage spells are is silly when Cure is clearly on only one side of the table.

Though, what I expect will happen is that BLM will be able to equip CNJ damage spells without penalty, allowing a BLM who is both a THM-50 and a CNJ-50 to use CNJ's ancient magic. I doubt leveling CNJ to 50 will have been completely in vain.

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Originally Posted by Misteyes

White Mage = Healer
Black Mage= Damage Dealer

All of the lore for "what kind of healer" or "what kind of damage" hasn't come out yet.

I, for one, leveled CNJ to be a healer - because it had Cure, which is the single iconic heal spell of Final Fantasy. Arguing WHM/BLM based on what color our damage spells are is silly when Cure is clearly on only one side of the table.

Though, what I expect will happen is that BLM will be able to equip CNJ damage spells without penalty, allowing a BLM who is both a THM-50 and a CNJ-50 to use CNJ's ancient magic. I doubt leveling CNJ to 50 will have been completely in vain.

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Cure, agree.

If you leveled anything "expecting" it to be a certain job that's your own fault. They didn't even realize job information until a few months ago and even then it wasn't decided who got what. In 1.18 it became apparent that CON was moving towards WHM.

Being a mage... you should have both classes leveled anyway, and you're going to need to so you can obtain the job quest. So just switch now and start leveling. You have several months. What's the big deal?

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Originally Posted by Wynn

I'm not sure how you can count the BLM spells and only get five.

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WTH are you talking about? Where did I use the number five at all ?

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Originally Posted by Coglin

WTH are you talking about? Where did I use the number five at all ?

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I meant to say six, but its not like you didn't know what I meant.

I don't mind CNJ becoming WHM, provided healing isn't emphasised at the expense of everything else. In most higher parties it's natural to be the dedicated healer, but I'm just worried that people will start to ONLY see CNJ as healer and forget the offensive side. I prioritize healing and buffing when I party play, but occasionally you do get a chance to nuke so I hope the offensive side isn't gotten rid of.

To be honest though, if you've leveled CNJ and play it to any real extent, you probably have THM leveled a bit as well. You don't see many high level CNJs that don't use THM skills.

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Originally Posted by Uriko

I don't mind CNJ becoming WHM, provided healing isn't emphasised at the expense of everything else. In most higher parties it's natural to be the dedicated healer, but I'm just worried that people will start to ONLY see CNJ as healer and forget the offensive side. I prioritize healing and buffing when I party play, but occasionally you do get a chance to nuke so I hope the offensive side isn't gotten rid of.

To be honest though, if you've leveled CNJ and play it to any real extent, you probably have THM leveled a bit as well. You don't see many high level CNJs that don't use THM skills.

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Yes this is really the only concern I have. My CNJ playstyle is to both nuke and heal in parties so I hope they don't mess around with that aspect.