CNJ = WHM and THM = BLM

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Originally Posted by Firon

Still lying to your self huh?

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In what way he is lying to him self?

I hope they swap AOE styles between classes.

The circular AOE of Con in my opinion is better suited for nukes and on target spells

The cone AOE that targets everything between you and your selected target makes it easier to cover your allies.

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Originally Posted by Answa

Why are you such a Richard?

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I only speak the truth, that is all.

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Originally Posted by Seirra_Lanzce

In what way he is lying to him self?

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From his reply it seems he still wants thm to be whm that's all read it again.

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Originally Posted by ChiefCurrahee

I hope they swap AOE styles between classes.

The circular AOE of Con in my opinion is better suited for nukes and on target spells

The cone AOE that targets everything between you and your selected target makes it easier to cover your allies.

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I disagree. I found the cone damage very favorable as I started leveling it up again today. Circle nukes annoyed me while I was leveling CNJ.

http://i42.tinypic.com/azgwwh.jpg

Posted this pic in another thread, been confirmed since 2.0 announcement. That be a Dated Sprouting Radical in that female Lalafell White Mage's hands.


In response below:

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Originally Posted by NamiyeV

that hoses my whole background for my char. I always figured conj=elements=gridania but imagine a circle. Plus all the thaum spells suck for offense. I like being a conj from gridania, so I'm wondering how this will make sense.

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In a patch they greatly increased the damage of Scourge, Banish and I think Shadowseer making THM do better damage on the whole than CNJ

that hoses my whole background for my char. I always figured conj=elements=gridania but imagine a circle. Plus all the thaum spells suck for offense. I like being a conj from gridania, so I'm wondering how this will make sense.

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Originally Posted by NamiyeV

that hoses my whole background for my char. I always figured conj=elements=gridania but imagine a circle. Plus all the thaum spells suck for offense. I like being a conj from gridania, so I'm wondering how this will make sense.

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You know Scourge beats every single Con spell in dmg right? also shadow sear just mops the floor with all of CON's spells

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Originally Posted by Firon

From his reply it seems he still wants thm to be whm that's all read it again.

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Not quite. What I wanted was for White Mage to fit within the lore and the most obvious place for that is within the Milvaneth Sacrarium, which is officially Life-worshiping Thaumaturge territory. Of course with a second class at Rank 15 needed to unlock each job (and we don't know which is which yet, although we can make some educated guesses), this is still possible.

It fitting is what mattered to me, and I saw THM as a better fit, although I freely acknowledged it was not the only option over the last few months. I always knew it could go either way.

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Originally Posted by Catapult

Not quite. What I wanted was for White Mage to fit within the lore and the most obvious place for that is within the Milvaneth Sacrarium, which is officially Life-worshiping Thaumaturge territory. Of course with a second class at Rank 15 needed to unlock each job (and we don't know which is which yet, although we can make some educated guesses), this is still possible.

It fitting is what mattered to me, and I saw THM as a better fit, although I freely acknowledged it was not the only option over the last few months. I always knew it could go either way.

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I don't know how many times i have to say this but, The guild players joins is not the one you are referring to.....you know they join the death one.

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Originally Posted by Firon

I don't know how many times i have to say this but, The guild players joins is not the one you are referring to.....you know they join the death one.

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Of course I know that. Current Thaumaturges join Arzanaeth and I saw Milvaneth as an awesome white mage-counterpoint, which it can still be.

Ul'dahn lore 101. If you use it to try and counter my argument it makes it sound like YOU don't know the basics.

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Originally Posted by Firon

You know Scourge beats every single Con spell in dmg right? also shadow sear just mops the floor with all of CON's spells

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I posted a reply and it didn't show up. I'm speaking from personal experience, not baiting anyone into a which is better discussion, but personally for me, especially in short battles, banish or scourge tend to fail or be resisted by the mobs, which not only makes it a waste of time but a waste of MP since they take up double than the second tier elemental spells. The key to THAUM is supposed to be the DoT spells, but to me they are not worth casting in a short battle and even in a longer battle, the effect is not as apparent and because of the long casting times, they can be time wasters. I think it would be incredibly difficult to play with solely thaum spells and the setup is better suited to being a healer/debuffer class, since it requires better timing and more technical expertise.

Guess I should get those last 8 levels on THM, what a drag !

Also I've been told that these jobs will only really come into play for endgame content, therefore they won't really affect short battles I guess?? I'll have to keep reading.

I'm REALLY happy about CNJ being WHM~ since most Conjurers have spent most of their time as healers, it would be retarded to suddenly make it a DPS.

I didnt have any doubts that things were gonna be like that snce start, I dont even get how ppl believed that the healer would ever be BLM...

I wanted to be a white mage and I have 50 CNJ already leveled so i'm happy :).

Yoshi and the team revealed this a long time ago quit complaining.

Not surprised...heh cnj felt like playing whm.

Oh well. It makes absolutely no sense from the story standpoint, but whatever.

Also, Firon it is called The Order of Nald'thal. Not The Order of Nald and The Order of Thal. Whichever temple you join is irrelevant, you still revere a dual god that has influence in the realm of life AND death. You'd know this if you paid attention to any of the in-game NPC text.

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Originally Posted by Urthdigger

So, the class who talks to the elementals, whose whole point is interacting with elementals, manipulating elementals, beseeching them for their power... is not the one to cast elemental magic?

Wat

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I answered this in the other thread on the topic.

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

The black mage argument is just silly. Black mages ARE NOT ELEMENTALISTS. Unless you think that spells like poison, sleep, demi, toad, pig, death, etc are elemental somehow. The reason for having so many elemental spells in their repetoire is that elemental magic has been the primary type of spell damage throughout the series.

Also, if you're still going to make that argument, you can't do so while completely ignoring the fact that con also gets all of the 'traditional white mage spells' like the various cures and buffs.

The main issue is that people need to quit trying to pigeonhole conj and thm into white/black mages. Neither class was divided originally along those lines, and you can make a case for either class going either way. Personally, I think SE should just make it so that getting to level 30 in either class unlocks both.

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Oh, where is your Lore now? lol XD I wonder if the people who saw all the signs, but covered their ears yelling "Lalalalorelalala" are going to lvl THM now.

Let us not forget that White Mages are not Conjurers and Black Mages are not Thaumaturges.

CNJ 30 / THM 15 is the pre-requisite to gain access to the advanced job, White Mage.

THM 30 / CNJ 15 is the pre-requisite to gain access to the advanced job, Black Mage.

It's not 1:1.

Not to mention the fact that White Mage could be completely separate from the Conjurer's guild, just requires you to have experience in Conjury (and have dabbled in Thaumaturgy) to be able to become skilled in the White arts.

Is that so hard to imagine?

Whoa! They are making the class they gave the Curaga spells and best Raise spells to the WHM?
Totally unexpected! Never saw this coming!

Sigh. Come on guys. This was confirmed the moment they made those changes, not to mention that they made Scourge, Banish and Drain all more potent in the same update.

This was confirmed back before alpha where CON was displayed to have a smooth gnarly staff and THM had a spiky staff

:p

Clearly this is the reason why powerleveling is allowed to an extent. :rolleyes:

Like many hear have mentioned, who's to say that Conjurer won't still retain their elemental spells or that Black Mage has to rely strictly on said elemental magick? We have the traditional element of Final Fantasy coming in(jobs) so now let's get creative with them and make something uniquely FFXIV.

Let Black Magick be related to high science and to necromancy. Let them use ancient magicks. Change up the paradigm. If you want to use elemental magic and other related nukes, just stick with conjurer as a class and don't equip a White Mage jobstone. How about keeping the classes relevant?

Instead of QQ'ing that it doesn't fit your mold, why not speculate about the possibilities?

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Originally Posted by eruntalo

Let us not forget that White Mages are not Conjurers and Black Mages are not Thaumaturges.

CNJ 30 / THM 15 is the pre-requisite to gain access to the advanced job, White Mage.

THM 30 / CNJ 15 is the pre-requisite to gain access to the advanced job, Black Mage.

It's not 1:1.

Not to mention the fact that White Mage could be completely separate from the Conjurer's guild, just requires you to have experience in Conjury (and have dabbled in Thaumaturgy) to be able to become skilled in the White arts.

Is that so hard to imagine?

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Yes its hard because a WHM will have all of the CON spells but none of the THM spells. Also BLM will share lvls with THM. and CON will share lvls with WHM.

So it pretty much is 1:1 after you get the sub job lvled. (15 CON or 15 THM)

Honestly did anyone really plan on eventually leveling up either THM OR CNJ to endgame levels... WITHOUT leveling the other? I'm leveling CNJ anyway just for its nukes, buffs etc... What's it matter you're gonna have to do both anyway imo. It's FF. All "lore" aside it won't really affect what you have to level in the long run.

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Originally Posted by DNO

Yes its hard because a WHM will have all of the CON spells but none of the THM spells. Also BLM will share lvls with THM. and CON will share lvls with WHM.

So it pretty much is 1:1 after you get the sub job lvled. (15 CON or 15 THM)

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Is it mentioned somewhere that the advanced jobs will only get abilities/spells from the primary class?

It just seems odd to me that they would have a secondary requirement without using things from that secondary class.

Perhaps, for example, Paladin, being GLD/MRD will draw Defender from Marauder, and for White Mage, being CON/THM, will draw Banish and Dia from Thaumaturge.

You're probably right in so far that it's mostly a one-to-one correlation from primary class to advanced job (seeing as it's true that the level of the job will be the level of the primary class), but it just seems peculiar to me that they would have a secondary requirement without doing anything with it.

I almost feel like they have the secondary requirement to circumvent lore to some extent. But, as with most things, only time will tell.

I loooooled

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Originally Posted by DNO

Yes its hard because a WHM will have all of the CON spells but none of the THM spells. Also BLM will share lvls with THM. and CON will share lvls with WHM.

So it pretty much is 1:1 after you get the sub job lvled. (15 CON or 15 THM)

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And when you get to 40 con you probably need to be 20 thm to get the nexy quest and 50/25, so its not quite as black and white as you make it appear .. ooohh see what i did there !

There is nothing saying that a blm can't use ancient magic and spells above level 25 though, infact it make more sense that a THM50/CNJ50 would be more powerful than a THM50/CNJ25.

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Originally Posted by Urthdigger

So the elemental talkers deal with life energies, and followers of a god of life and death deal with elemental energies?

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Originally Posted by Urthdigger

That'd be fine, I just don't want them totally screwing over the lore by doing something so nonsensical as making the elemental people not use elemental magic. It'd be like making archer no longer use bows, and having them use swords instead now.

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Originally Posted by Catapult

Not quite. What I wanted was for White Mage to fit within the lore and the most obvious place for that is within the Milvaneth Sacrarium, which is officially Life-worshiping Thaumaturge territory. Of course with a second class at Rank 15 needed to unlock each job (and we don't know which is which yet, although we can make some educated guesses), this is still possible.

It fitting is what mattered to me, and I saw THM as a better fit, although I freely acknowledged it was not the only option over the last few months. I always knew it could go either way.

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Originally Posted by Firon

I don't know how many times i have to say this but, The guild players joins is not the one you are referring to.....you know they join the death one.

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I had hoped ( and still do hope ) that the jobs get their own guilds. Milvaneth Sacrarium is a good choice for a WHM guild location.
The lore leads to that, but, they are in a position to change the lore to match the game systems.

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Originally Posted by Lerris

I had hoped ( and still do hope ) that the jobs get their own guilds. Milvaneth Sacrarium is a good choice for a WHM guild location.
The lore leads to that, but, they are in a position to change the lore to match the game systems.

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If they do this there are guna be 100's of guilds, I would rather see the existing guilds have specialist trainers/quest givers.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

And when you get to 40 con you probably need to be 20 thm to get the nexy quest and 50/25, so its not quite as black and white as you make it appear .. ooohh see what i did there !

There is nothing saying that a blm can't use ancient magic and spells above level 25 though, infact it make more sense that a THM50/CNJ50 would be more powerful than a THM50/CNJ25.

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First off im going off of what was said. so your making things up....

Also the sub job is a quest requirement to get the job. If you get xp on CON your WHM gets the same xp.
which means your wrong. All you have to do is read. its been stated before.

/post

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Originally Posted by eruntalo

Is it mentioned somewhere that the advanced jobs will only get abilities/spells from the primary class?

It just seems odd to me that they would have a secondary requirement without using things from that secondary class.

Perhaps, for example, Paladin, being GLD/MRD will draw Defender from Marauder, and for White Mage, being CON/THM, will draw Banish and Dia from Thaumaturge.

You're probably right in so far that it's mostly a one-to-one correlation from primary class to advanced job (seeing as it's true that the level of the job will be the level of the primary class), but it just seems peculiar to me that they would have a secondary requirement without doing anything with it.

I almost feel like they have the secondary requirement to circumvent lore to some extent. But, as with most things, only time will tell.

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I am right and the proof is what WAS said. If you lvl MRD your WAR is the SAME lvl. WAR is MRD. they share abilitles and WAR gets its own as well plus cross class skills are blocked.


This is common knowledge its all be stated.

Am I the only one who isn't surprised at this choice? We're talking the difference between a class who excels at curing versus a class that is a sadomasochist in a broad sense of the term.

Unless that's your thing. No judgement here.

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Originally Posted by DNO

First off im going off of what was said. so your making things up....

/post

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You see my first paragraph where I use the word probably ?

Don't try to smart, only smart people can do that.

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Originally Posted by Ganvire

Am I the only one who isn't surprised at this choice? We're talking the difference between a class who excels at curing versus a class that is a sadomasochist in a broad sense of the term.

Unless that's your thing. No judgement here.

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Conjurer only recently started to excel at healing due to deliberate changes by the new regime. Before that, THM was the king of heals.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

Conjurer only recently started to excel at healing due to deliberate changes by the new regime. Before that, THM was the king of heals.

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Ah, yes, I do remember that. Such a weird system.