Please hire GM Wardens that can suspend and ban bots

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

thats not the issue, the issue is someone who is jelous of your ranks, or that you have a drop they want, or is just spiteful for whatever reason(who knows maybe you said no to them joining a party) hitting the suspend/ban button just for those spiteful reasons alone

players are not GMs for a reason and should never have any control over that kind of power

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Who said anything about a suspend/ban button?

The STFu is not good enough. It should not be an out of game option.

They need in-game presence to deter botting and stop botters.

There is also the factor that players may not care enough to take the time to fill out the form with their POL e-mail which no one can remember.

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Originally Posted by Jhanaka

Hello everyone!

We always encourage you to submit any suspicious players to either the GM team or to the Special Task Force via the form located at the Support Center Website. If you use the /helpdesk system, the GMs will submit the names of suspected players for you to the Special Task Force so you don’t have to interrupt your game play; the message we send to you is to keep us from disrupting you while you play and also to inform you of the process to submit reports directly to the Task Force, should you wish to outside of game.

There have been some really good suggestions on how we can help improve our GM service and we enjoy reading these types of threads as they are very helpful in understanding what our players are looking for.

Thanks!

-Senior Game Master Jhanaka

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Surprised to see a moderator response, thanks.

Unfortunately, the in-game /helpdesk mechanic is improperly structured so that players get the impression that they are not to bother GMs with botting issues.

I have been playing FFXIV since release and NEVER seen a GM in-game or heard of one.

If they are disrupting our game play, we need immediate action. Even if it is just to witness the activity. We want you to come and see what is happenning.

Filing a form is not sufficient.

If you really care about the customers then you need to re-examine your STF. It's only going to get worse when you allow add-ons.

The way this thread is going scares me from even gathering/crafting in the first place. Of course the lalafell trains are obvious RMT, but RMT is a separate issue from this. Participating in a minigame that requires the input of repeated actions that even something as basic as an advanced controller/keyboard can replicate is the root of the problem.

I'm not even much of an avid crafter/gatherer and I...
* Play with a controller therefore I can look at the TV while pressing A several times, with as much spam as crafting spits out it is incredibly likely I can miss your /tell or lschat if the log has been quiet for awhile.
* To note on something discussed in the last bot topic: It is not unusual for me to craft in random corners of the map or in weird little cranies. Am I a bot? No. You know why I do that? I don't have a great computer so I lag less when in a low-polygon corner alienated from other PCs.
* When I fish, I check the same sequence of spots on the jigging game every single time because that's just how I learned to fish. No I'm not botting even though my rod most likely makes very repetitive motions. I can stand to fish for several hours at a time out of boredom or while watching a movie, is that a crime?
* After 1.19 I don't have/care to get low level crafting gear when crafting a random class. Is being naked and crafting in a corner repetitively pressing the A button over and over and over again constitute an investigation?

I understand that it is necessary for SE to make a conscious effort to prevent botting but it is kind of hard to do so when the actual minigames make legitimate players look like bots. I think this rampant witch hunt with the current state of crafting/gathering is only going to make crafting/gathering a hassle for those who do it legitimately and enjoy it. I lag a lot so combined with the fact that crafting/gathering inputs disrupt the input box, having to panic and reply to a GM every so often is probably going to make me run out of time on the whatever current step I'm on which could result in a failed synthesis.

Lets fix the minigame systems before we go around investigating everyone who crafts/gathers, alright?

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Originally Posted by Zoltan

It is so easy for real players to spot cheaters that Square Enix should have a solution other than filing a complaint to a Special Task Force and never get a response.

If it was truly a force, they should have staff that players could interact with and they come in-game to evaluate the situation and take action.

I have never played WoW, but know from a friend that they have Game Wardens that can deal with RMTs and botters in-game.

If they truly want to be a competitive MMO, they need to have staff.

I hope they consider this in the future.

Thank you.

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why SE bothers to reply on a thread that has already made multiple times? you know you are playing *beta-game* where your feedback is most matters about how can you improve the game other then fulfill your delusional whims.

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Originally Posted by Bearforce

why SE bothers to reply on a thread that has already made multiple times? you know you are playing *beta-game* where your feedback is most matters about how can you improve the game other then fulfill your delusional whims.

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It's called courtesy. I guess you've never heard of that. Maybe they thought that this thread had merit? Maybe they care about this issue?

I did make a suggestion that can improve the game.

I did not find any threads that suggested they add a new type of GM with authority. If you find one, feel free to post the link.

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Originally Posted by Razor

Lets fix the minigame systems before we go around investigating everyone who crafts/gathers, alright?

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It's more about Disciples of War and Magic than crafting.

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Originally Posted by Zoltan

Who said anything about a suspend/ban button?

The STFu is not good enough. It should not be an out of game option.

They need in-game presence to deter botting and stop botters.

There is also the factor that players may not care enough to take the time to fill out the form with their POL e-mail which no one can remember.

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The STFu is by far one of the worst teams in an MMO ever. Infact, I am unconvinced it's not just a machine reading logs, and I want to thank them (it?) for not handing out equal punishment in many circumstances.

I caution everyone to be absolutely sure that someone is a bot or actually cheating before reporting them, and never report out of anger.

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Originally Posted by Zoltan

Surprised to see a moderator response, thanks.

Unfortunately, the in-game /helpdesk mechanic is improperly structured so that players get the impression that they are not to bother GMs with botting issues.

If they are disrupting our game play, we need immediate action. Even if it is just to witness the activity. We want you to come and see what is happenning.

Filing a form is not sufficient.

If you really care about the customers then you need to re-examine your STF. It's only going to get worse when you allow add-ons.

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This^^^^^^

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Originally Posted by Zoltan

Surprised to see a moderator response, thanks.

Unfortunately, the in-game /helpdesk mechanic is improperly structured so that players get the impression that they are not to bother GMs with botting issues.

I have been playing FFXIV since release and NEVER seen a GM in-game or heard of one.

If they are disrupting our game play, we need immediate action. Even if it is just to witness the activity. We want you to come and see what is happenning.

Filing a form is not sufficient.

If you really care about the customers then you need to re-examine your STF. It's only going to get worse when you allow add-ons.

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No reason for you to see one, they are invisible and probably never show themselves up. There are little to no reason for GMs to be visible outside their jail on XIV. Most of violations aren't related to griefing/MPK/holding like it used to be on XI.

And I'd seriously like to know how it could be worse with add-ons. Protip : anyone who wants to bot can bot on XIV. Add-ons allowed or not. It's been like that since day one, people were even cheating on the beta... We already suffered enough on XI because of that "no add on / no windowed mode" policy. Policy which didn't help a bit at fighting cheaters, as everyone was using bots to claim NM/HNMs...

when i'm crafting i try to rush through it as fast as i can, partly coz its boring partly coz its when i use facilities i want to get my gils worth for the hour. if i look like a botter i'm sorry but i am not. talk to me i will talk back. but the amount of times i have seen some1 lv up, and i have said "gratz" but then been ignored makes me think thats a bot

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Originally Posted by grandm

when i'm crafting i try to rush through it as fast as i can, partly coz its boring partly coz its when i use facilities i want to get my gils worth for the hour. if i look like a botter i'm sorry but i am not. talk to me i will talk back. but the amount of times i have seen some1 lv up, and i have said "gratz" but then been ignored makes me think thats a bot

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you obviously dont know what facilities do, no offense
but they only are used as "training" just liks training manuals for dated synths that require them

it has been acknowledged several times that they DO NOT make the synth easier, but if you dont have it and the synth says you need it, it makes the synth harder not to have it(if not imposible)

they are adding ways for the support to matter in the future

Guess you never got the memo that nobody likes a rat. If someone is botting it will catch up to them eventually it almost always does because people don't know when to quit.

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Originally Posted by Fieros

Well, the one I saw had no bait/lure equipped and repeatedly was casting and putting away his rod for the 5 minutes I watched.

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Yeah and? Many of us have done that before lol, after you have fished as much as some of us have in this game you tend to watch tv/movies as your gathering items. I have spent a good 10-15 minutes just not realizing I had run out of live bait on many occasions.

The reason all these people you THINK are bots are not being banned are because the majority of them are not bots and you are just instantly going omfg bot bot bot bot bot.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

Take screenshots and report it here: http://support.na.square-enix.com/co...02&la=1#bottom

It is not SE's fault if people aren't willing to follow the correct process to report someone cheating.

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Actually is is SE's fault 100%. They creating a cumbersome reporting system that no one wants to use. Nearly every other MMO lets you direct report through game, I am not going to a separate website to report people I think are cheating, its not worth my time and for those people who play full screen in a massive hassle.

Also claiming someone is a bot just because they didn't reply to your message is lame. There are plenty of reasons why that person made not have responded, not the least of which is the horrible system for trying to type/craft/gather at the same time. Remove the status bar and just let us craft and afk for a sec mid craft without the lame unneeded timer bar and you will see a large increase in chatter. But then again, I will likely still watch movies/tv when I am crafting and gathering, just because I enjoy doing so. This is a typical craft session for me and many other players. When I am crafting I want to be left alone to relax, when I want to interact with all the players ingame I join a DOW/M group.

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Originally Posted by Antipika

No reason for you to see one, they are invisible and probably never show themselves up. There are little to no reason for GMs to be visible outside their jail on XIV. Most of violations aren't related to griefing/MPK/holding like it used to be on XI.

And I'd seriously like to know how it could be worse with add-ons. Protip : anyone who wants to bot can bot on XIV. Add-ons allowed or not. It's been like that since day one, people were even cheating on the beta... We already suffered enough on XI because of that "no add on / no windowed mode" policy. Policy which didn't help a bit at fighting cheaters, as everyone was using bots to claim NM/HNMs...

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Requoted in-case you missed it.

"They move in union ... draw weapons at same time ... cycle through targets and then in union move to the next spot. If I claim a mob, the bots still will run over and shoot my claim"

Do you see the problem? Bots are NOT invisible. Frankly anything you said after that is bs. We're talking about botters here.

There is reason to see one. The reason is that with the current recourse players have to deal with botters are to file a complaint outside of the program.

If they had GMs that came in-game and witnessed bot activity, otheres would see them and potentially be deterred from botting. Are you going to steal with a policeman around? I'm not saying that they need GMs in every area or even on watch. It would just help if someone saw them taking an interest and having the ability to take action.

Square Enix is planning on changing the code to allow add-ons or they are planning on sharing the code to allow programmers to develop add-ons. In no way have I stated or implied that add-ons will be bad for the game. I merely stated that botting will be worse when there are allowed add-ons. Can you categorically say that it won't?

Whether people can or cannot bot now is not in question. Of course they can bot now because this thread is about botting.

I am simply proposing a way to make things better.

Did you ever see a GM at an HNM camp? No, because they had no authority and that wasn't how SE responded to botting.

FFXIV is new. They are listening to our concerns. Please try to make things better and have an open mind.

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Originally Posted by Zoltan

It's easy to spot a bot.

To quote an annymous friend who spotted them:

"They move in union ... draw weapons at same time ... cycle through targets and then in union move to the next spot. If I claim a mob, the bots still will run over and shoot my claim"

If they have the same character model and gear or are always in the same area 24/7.

Bots are easy to spot.

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what you are talking about is people multi boxing and it is not against the tos honestly. the moving in unison and pulling weapons at the same time is more likely someone multi boxing and using a controller to control all the characters at the same time. that is not against the tos btw.

I didn't know that you could set up one controller to run multiple pcs.

If that's the case, then it could be legitimate.

Why would they attack someone else's claimed mobs if they were not going to get any XP or loot?

I witnessed a player in Cassiopiea Hollow that was there for 2 days. When our XP group claimed a mob near them, they would attack that mob and kill it. They would get no XP or loot. They were moving at walking speed in a pattern that most real players do not move. It sure looked like a bot.

I'm just saying that it would be nice if SE could investigate those cases in-game rather than filing an form offline.

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Originally Posted by Zoltan

I didn't know that you could set up one controller to run multiple pcs.

If that's the case, then it could be legitimate.

Why would they attack someone else's claimed mobs if they were not going to get any XP or loot?

I witnessed a player in Cassiopiea Hollow that was there for 2 days. When our XP group claimed a mob near them, they would attack that mob and kill it. They would get no XP or loot. They were moving at walking speed in a pattern that most real players do not move. It sure looked like a bot.

I'm just saying that it would be nice if SE could investigate those cases in-game rather than filing an form offline.

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oh i wasn't saying all of it was legal, but was saying that some of it could be. i can run 3 computers off my main one now and use the same controller for all, but after adons are allowed you also have to think about people using things like sandboxing. that allows you to use multiple games on the same computer and that does allow you to control them all. that is illegal now though because it is a 3rd party program.

i do agree though that we should have an in game way to report suspicious activity in game, but worry more about certain people that would just report the same people over and over out of pure spite. i think the good of adding it outweighs the bad of those false reports though.

You gotta think that they would be able to track players complaints and take action against them for making repeated false claims. It's not that difficult.

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Originally Posted by Zoltan

It's more about Disciples of War and Magic than crafting.

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Well then my panic attack was unjustified :P I suppose I've just come to assume the focus of every botting thread is in relation to crafting/gathering. Over here on Gysahl we just have your lalafell trains, I have maybe ran into ONE combat bot. And I wouldn't even worry about that person because it took them roughly 36hrs to go from 26 to 29 lol. If there were rampant bots killing up all the lv1 sheep to sell the skins then I suppose that would warrant an outcry. I've never been on Bodhum though so I don't know how much of an issue it is there, I just know its hardly even an issue on Gysahl.

I BOT all the time...

Well not ALL the time... but it's up to level 31... Can't wait to hit 35 so I can log Halatali

you can get people banned i got Lord Nemo placed in GM jail for 24 hours.. http://i55.tinypic.com/2zdyxz7.jpg

btw this is a repeat thread there is already one of these

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Originally Posted by Rydin

I BOT all the time...

Well not ALL the time... but it's up to level 31... Can't wait to hit 35 so I can log Halatali

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Bot and BTN are totally different .. your just using the wrong acronym in game the tools all say BTN not BOT ..

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Originally Posted by Zoltan

You can't satisfy everyone all of the time.

The fact is that it is needed. How they deal with it is their responsibility. They cannot have customer service without communicating with the customers.

Wardens should be able to come in-game and look at the actual situation. Sisnce it is so obvious they should be able to suspend players on the spot until their investigation is complete.

Problem solved.

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That would lead to alot of legitimate crafters getting suspended and alot of rage, take this scenario for example, somone wakes up and decides to log on and craft, then they craft all day, which to alot of people will look like a craft bot, then a GM comes and sees em crafting so sends em a tell, however the poor soul is on the last of his mats for a tough synth and trying for HQ, so cant reply because he may miss that turn, so the GM insta bans until they take a week to investigate.

This kind of scenario will make people ragequit because they have had thier account suspended for a week, just because they got a GM tell at the wrong time.

you can get people banned i got Lord Nemo placed in GM jail for 24 hours.. http://i55.tinypic.com/2zdyxz7.jpg

btw this is a repeat thread there is already one of these

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Originally Posted by Rydin

I BOT all the time...

Well not ALL the time... but it's up to level 31... Can't wait to hit 35 so I can log Halatali

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Bot and BTN are totally different .. your just using the wrong acronym in game the tools all say BTN not BOT ..

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Originally Posted by DantesAmore

Bot and BTN are totally different .. your just using the wrong acronym in game the tools all say BTN not BOT ..

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imagine how much confusion that could cause if I go around saying I BOT

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Originally Posted by Delsus

That would lead to alot of legitimate crafters getting suspended and alot of rage, take this scenario for example, somone wakes up and decides to log on and craft, then they craft all day, which to alot of people will look like a craft bot, then a GM comes and sees em crafting so sends em a tell, however the poor soul is on the last of his mats for a tough synth and trying for HQ, so cant reply because he may miss that turn, so the GM insta bans until they take a week to investigate.

This kind of scenario will make people ragequit because they have had thier account suspended for a week, just because they got a GM tell at the wrong time.

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That's the most ludicrous thing I've ever read.

Aside from the fact that I never said anything about insta-ban, your scenario is unrealistic.

A GM would be able to see the timing of your syntheses and determine if they were automated or not.

If you think this is a duplicate thread, I challenge you to post a link where someone suggested that they have live GMs that can investigate botting.

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Originally Posted by Rydin

I BOT all the time...

Well not ALL the time... but it's up to level 31... Can't wait to hit 35 so I can log Halatali

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lol, i made this joke alot in several other botting threads and no one got it, and some actualy called for my banning for admiting to it

hence why i didnt make the joke this time too

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Originally Posted by DantesAmore

you can get people banned i got Lord Nemo placed in GM jail for 24 hours.. http://i55.tinypic.com/2zdyxz7.jpg

btw this is a repeat thread there is already one of these




Bot and BTN are totally different .. your just using the wrong acronym in game the tools all say BTN not BOT ..

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people dont go around saying "im doing BTNing
they say they are "botting" or "logging" usualy, its botony, which shortens to bot, go with the joke :P

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Originally Posted by Zoltan

A GM would be able to see the timing of your syntheses and determine if they were automated or not.

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Ahahah are you serious there ? There is no way to determine if someone is botting or not that way. Moreover it is quite simple to add a random delay to a bot so actions aren't always done with the same timming.

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Originally Posted by Vesper

Actually is is SE's fault 100%. They creating a cumbersome reporting system that no one wants to use. Nearly every other MMO lets you direct report through game, I am not going to a separate website to report people I think are cheating, its not worth my time and for those people who play full screen in a massive hassle.

Also claiming someone is a bot just because they didn't reply to your message is lame. There are plenty of reasons why that person made not have responded, not the least of which is the horrible system for trying to type/craft/gather at the same time. Remove the status bar and just let us craft and afk for a sec mid craft without the lame unneeded timer bar and you will see a large increase in chatter. But then again, I will likely still watch movies/tv when I am crafting and gathering, just because I enjoy doing so. This is a typical craft session for me and many other players. When I am crafting I want to be left alone to relax, when I want to interact with all the players ingame I join a DOW/M group.

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You make a good point about in-game reporting system.

However, I'm not sure why you went on a tirade about the botting witch hunt. I'm not in those people's camp and I certainly don't advocate crying foul every time a person sees anyone synthing.

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Originally Posted by Baxter

Completely agree. Do we really want to go on this witch hunt? Grinding crafting is monotonous as is. Should I really have to reply to people to prove that I am not a bot when all I want is my level?

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It's true, I've seen massive amounts of people (myself included) being accused of botting because they're spamming standard... It's a bit ridicolous tbh.

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Originally Posted by Antipika

Ahahah are you serious there ? There is no way to determine if someone is botting or not that way. Moreover it is quite simple to add a random delay to a bot so actions aren't always done with the same timming.

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It is possible. Thay can see the acions performed by players. Maybe it's not timing, but something else. We don't know the programming.

WoW has built-in anti-cheating technology. You cannot say that it's not possible for Square Enix to detect botting.

I am merely suggesting that the STF take a more active role in-game.

I am really concerned about DoW and DoM botting. For crafting and gathering, they should take a more active role, not the players. If we can identify them, then they should be able to as well.

You're are right though, it's not timming.

WoW scan your memory/system, SE doesn't. Here is the big difference. SE can only use data they have on their side and nothing else.

We all would like the STF to take actions against bots/cheaters. But unless SE start to have a real anti-cheat policy, this won't happen. The STF didn't prevent cheating on XI. Hell you could even speedhack freely with little to no chance to get jailed. You could even poshack easily, and again with almost no risk of getting banned...

Not gonna talk about fishbotting, claim botting, you name it. Never seen a MMO where everyone could simply do what they wanted... The only thing SE did ok was tracing back RMTs and remove gil from the economy.

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Originally Posted by Jhanaka

Hello everyone!

We always encourage you to submit any suspicious players to either the GM team or to the Special Task Force via the form located at the Support Center Website. If you use the /helpdesk system, the GMs will submit the names of suspected players for you to the Special Task Force so you don’t have to interrupt your game play; the message we send to you is to keep us from disrupting you while you play and also to inform you of the process to submit reports directly to the Task Force, should you wish to outside of game.

There have been some really good suggestions on how we can help improve our GM service and we enjoy reading these types of threads as they are very helpful in understanding what our players are looking for.

Thanks!

-Senior Game Master Jhanaka

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Hello! Thanks for the assurance.

One more thing though, I wonder if Special Task Force report form can have another category to select when we report? So far I've been using "Witnessed RMT activities" or something like that, but that's not accurate type. If there's a choice that says "Reporting suspicious characters or behaviors" it would be great. Just so it will make it easier for us to decide which category to file the report for, and make it easier for Special Task Force to sort out the report by types more accurately.

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Originally Posted by Antipika

WoW scan your memory/system, SE doesn't. Here is the big difference. SE can only use data they have on their side and nothing else.

We all would like the STF to take actions against bots/cheaters. But unless SE start to have a real anti-cheat policy, this won't happen. The STF didn't prevent cheating on XI. Hell you could even speedhack freely with little to no chance to get jailed. You could even poshack easily, and again with almost no risk of getting banned...

Not gonna talk about fishbotting, claim botting, you name it. Never seen a MMO where everyone could simply do what they wanted... The only thing SE did ok was tracing back RMTs and remove gil from the economy.

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I am suggesting that they change. There is nothing preventing them from being able to scan your PC.

You cannot argue that because it was that way in the past that it has to be that way in the future.

You cannot defend their current practice as being sufficient and acceptable.

You should open your mind and accept that they are listening to suggestions.

They never had forums for FFXI. Does that mean that they will never have forums for FFXIV?

That's just not a priority now, SE don't care and don't want to invest money in that for now... After 2.0 gets here why now, but now? No point really. Especially if the whole game engine will be remade etc.

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Originally Posted by Antipika

That's just not a priority now, SE don't care and don't want to invest money in that for now... After 2.0 gets here why now, but now? No point really. Especially if the whole game engine will be remade etc.

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Your speaking from authority but have no standing. If they didn't care, then why do they have forums that moderators reply to (See above) and have Youtube.com Producer chat sessions?

Another fallacy.

Do you ever respect anyone's opinion? Please stop trolling threads. It's not helpful.

If you're not part of the solution, don't be a part of the problem.

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Originally Posted by Fieros

Well, the one I saw had no bait/lure equipped and repeatedly was casting and putting away his rod for the 5 minutes I watched.

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Maybe he didn't know how to fish...a lot of newbs still don't. LOL.

The person Fieros mention was a high level fisher. Moreover, it usually don't take me more than like 10 casts, which would be what? 2 mins? to realize I had no bait.

But still, it seems easy to spot a bot, yet so hard to prove one.