Token exchange for the Primal Birds

Wow typos! Curse u android.

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Originally Posted by Cidel

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You're entire mentality looks at the issue from your perspective as a player, rather than the game as a whole. MMOs require content in order to remain fun, and keep people subscribing, and the best way to maintain lots of content is to keep old content relevant in some way, especially ones like XIV are theme park MMOs which means that you log in and decide "what ride shall I go on today". The mounts do entirely exist to stimulate interest in the content, and the rarity is entirely dependent on how irrelevant the content is becoming (same goes for any content really). Your opinion is based on being burned out, I get that, but that is because you are misusing the content. The mount is not actually meant to be "farmed" at this point, it simply provides a further incentive to run the fights when the weapons aren't BiS anymore. When the weapons lose their viability in a few months, the devs make changes, we know that and have seen it happen before.

TLDR - if drop rates were reasonable, content would die sooner into it's life cycle

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Originally Posted by TaurielKyudo

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for an end goal. I've been doing bird farms at least once a week every week since these dropped. I only have 88 totems for bis, and 42 for rav. Why? Because farm parties, even if they are good and you are doing bis in 5 mins, only last max about 10 runs. And sometimes even fewer, especially if were talking rav, where people still don't understand the fight and eventually disband. Not to mention just getting a party together. It's just a little disheartening to actually see a bird drop, lose it, and then not see one again for many runs. I would even vote for 200 totems to exchange if you guys are that worried about the longevity of the content. But at least if I don't get my bird in any of those, I could work towards something. And for those who have been saying once you get it you just stop doing content...not really. My friend got his bis bird luckily in his first few tries farming, and he's been helping us try and get ours ever since. So that logic isn't really there. People will still do it. As someone mentioned earlier, there's still plenty of pony farms out there. I just want a pretty bird, is that so much to ask? T.T

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It's definitely not unreasonable of a request. While longevity of a given form of content is probably a bit of a concern, it's generally not the overall point with optional vanity goods. What a lot of people are overlooking is the format. RNG has and will always be a method to (some) content and rewards in RPGs, MMOs, and MMORPGs. The more optional and rare that something is, the more likely it will be met with RNG. Its rarity is strictly dependent on the devs and what they believe the value of said item should be.

Some people luck out with something rare very early, others can spend months or years. That luck is its own reward in games that derive part of its pleasure through RNG, akin to the pleasure found in gambling. So to answer your question, for now, yes... asking for a pretty bird to be quantified in an MMORPG is obviously too much to ask. Well not to "ask" for, but rather to expect. You can ask all you want, and hopefully you'll get it someday. For now though, you shouldn't expect it to be that "easy" (as in quantified expectations easy).

These days, that ease should be expected out of otherwise necessary goods though. We're assured high tier gear through tokens/currency at a 100% acquisition chance, combined with raids that are guaranteed to drop equips (where the only RNG is what equips drop). Given how that guaranteed drop rate isn't exactly traditional with SE games (e.g. old FFXI), I'd say we're in a decent spot as far as expectations go. Who knows, maybe it'll become normal to quantify everything at some point and remove RNG entirely. That'd be an interesting development.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

If you add the tokens to the drops? Yes. Because the guy who only had to run it once cannot be statistically compensated by the poor sod that never even saw the thing after 1000 runs (Both being statistical outliers, of course).
If you have the tokens substitute the drop? All that changes is that everyone needs to run it equally often, the average remains the same. Yay same effort for same reward!

And for items like these, you can even go super fancy and hide the tokens, substituting them with a hidden counter in the background that will force drop the item after X amount of runs - but only for you. That way, you even get the satisfaction of getting the item directly, instead of from the vendor.

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Basically advocating for instant gratification in an mmo. I think I have literally seen it all.

I can foresee someone bringing up the thick counter saying 100 is not instant. I suppose modern mmos have bred people to expect rather than to earn.

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Originally Posted by Ovenmitts

Basically advocating for instant gratification in an mmo.

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Funny that you say that, because RNG, not token/counter systems allow you to get an item "instantly" if you're lucky, whereas in counter systems, you always have to put in a set amount of effort for them.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Funny that you say that, because RNG, not token/counter systems allow you to get an item "instantly" if you're lucky, whereas in counter systems, you always have to put in a set amount of effort for them.

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Hence why I said rare item in my first post. In a 1/100 chance, you can obviously get lucky statistically to get it on the first try. Rare does not mean fair. It means you have a chance just like everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

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Except you are (potentially purposely) misconstruing what issue I am acknowledging (as has Bourne Endeavor) about how majority of the playerbase "deals" with the "bonus" rather than the trials being DF'd like crazy.

The mounts are stimulating interest, but to claim that people are expected to religiously run it in DF to "help new players clear it" as the purpose for the mounts is incorrect in that most players serious about the mounts end up running it together in PF/server-side with the expectation that they'll kill the primal efficiently and quickly so multiple runs can be done since it'll likely take that many to see even 1 mount appear.That isn't to say nobody is/will try to farm it through DF (especially when players can vastly overgear the fight), but obviously new/mechanic-heavy fights like Thordan and Sephirot with mounts, that typically end with frustration in the DF, are actually avoided outside of server-side parties. You can say the mounts aren't meant to be farmed, but that is exactly what they're being, since people want them.

I'm not even sure why you're quoting me specifically, when I have yet to outright push for mounts being bought with tokens here. I made a comment about DF-parties maybe seeing a higher drop rate if people want to justify running it in the DF rather than in full premades, but it's hardly worth mentioning in "misusing content" as opposed to other ideas and thoughts in this thread talking about tokens, which clearly are made with the intent of providing a safety net for people with poor luck. Try engaging those posts with incentive claims.

Its not an unreasonable request, and most people will just wait until the drop rate is increased.

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Originally Posted by Cidel

but to claim that people are expected to religiously run it in DF to "help new players clear it" as the purpose for the mounts is incorrect

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I never actually said that was the purpose. The purpose is to run the content for rewards, but keep the rewards at such a distance that there will be a reason for players to run the content for a long time.

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Originally Posted by Cidel

You can say the mounts aren't meant to be farmed, but that is exactly what they're being, since people want them.

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Sorry, I explained that really badly. What I mean is that the mounts are not the primary purpose of the content at this point, as the content is still somewhat relevant (perhaps not ravana and bismark, but thordan and sephirot are), people are farming these trials for weapons, and by giving them tokens (8 mounts for every 100 runs in the example), or a high drop rate for the mount, now there is a much higher chance of people not going back for the mount later, thus killing the content faster.

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Originally Posted by Cidel

I'm not even sure why you're quoting me specifically, when I have yet to outright push for mounts being bought with tokens here.

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I'm sorry if you feel that way, I tend to read through everyone's posts and if there is a point to be made then I make it, there's no malicious intent to say you are wrong at all, and I said in my post that I completely understand your point, and I am simply trying to explain what is potentially the developers point of view for designing content this way and scheduling nerfs when they do.

As I said before, I fully support the token system, but it has to be implemented at the end of the content's life cycle in order to bring new life into what will then be old content.

I'm not doing this to make people mad at me but short story. I didn't even have the chance to roll on the mount before people left and this happened:

http://i.imgur.com/snXgKSH.png

http://i.imgur.com/gE9WUhl.png

I guess rolling 0 or well not even being avaible to roll before people leaves gets you a Bismarck mount.

Ah yes yes, it was barely I got it too. Since that staff put me to item 99/100 and mount barely got into my inventory XD.