To be honest, Alex Savage is a failure.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

While true, Ceasaria points towards where one of Alexander's major problems lies: lack of an effective lead up.

Alexander itself had little actual threat build up. Our first interaction with it is as an "empty" magic barrier that few (if any) npcs comment on before a scene that occurs after the HW Main Story is completed. Players new to Final Fantasy have little reason to fear Alexander, while only fans that have played FFIV, FFIX and FFXI have an idea of why Alexander activating might be a bad idea.

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Granted in IX Alexander was a benevolent force summoned to try and stop Bahamut laying waste to Alexandria, but then it got wrecked by the Invincible :< That whole scene of Alexandria getting torn apart hits the feels every time, though Cleyra..... *takes off hat and lowers head*

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Originally Posted by NaesakiAshwell

Granted in IX Alexander was a benevolent force summoned to try and stop Bahamut laying waste to Alexandria, but then it got wrecked by the Invincible :< That whole scene of Alexandria getting torn apart hits the feels every time, though Cleyra..... *takes off hat and lowers head*

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That scene was beautiful and really cemented the power of Alexander (at least in the face of equal threat). I think that's really the main thing about Alexander. It's a neutral force of power that does what it wants or is controlled to do. It's not necessarily "good" but it's not "bad" neither. If it's sentient in the game, then it simply does what it believes is right. The XI storyline sort of played on that aspect the most with its rivalry with <spoilers maybe>. Alexander there has some restraint, but will absolutely not turn down a good fight that will end up in the destruction of everyone lol.

In regards to this game, people really have to realize that Alexander is hardly a hyped up summon in any FF game. It's often looked at as a cool summon, but we're much more attached to the others, ESPECIALLY Bahamut. Short of it being some recognizably sinister name like Hades or Doom Train, there really wouldn't be much hype to it after having dealt with one of the most well-accepted and dangerous summon in FF history. Add to that the fact that the story to BCoB was built up since the badass ending to 1.0 (and intro to 2.0). We have an attachment to the Primal in this game without even playing it, and with that cinematic, we didn't need anything more to establish its terror within the game. That's how potent the name "Bahamut" is within the FF universe.

OPs post
http://i.imgur.com/AbeOik6.jpg

I agree, but I also don't agree.

Alexander accomplishes what they set out to do, and the fights (in midas at least) are a lot of fun.

Nothing can top Coil for me, or the day I beat T13 and the satisfaction I felt, so I will say that Alexander leaves a bit to be desired in comparison, but as a standalone raid alexander savage is fine.

It is sad though, I could care less about the plot of alexander, when I was always on the edge of my seat in coil. It's a true 180.

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Originally Posted by Kaze3434

OPs post
http://i.imgur.com/AbeOik6.jpg

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People don't usually type up several paragraphs for a bait, I think.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

I agree, but I also don't agree.

Alexander accomplishes what they set out to do, and the fights (in midas at least) are a lot of fun.

Nothing can top Coil for me, or the day I beat T13 and the satisfaction I felt, so I will say that Alexander leaves a bit to be desired in comparison, but as a standalone raid alexander savage is fine.

It is sad though, I could care less about the plot of alexander, when I was always on the edge of my seat in coil. It's a true 180.



People don't usually type up several paragraphs for a bait, I think.

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normally i would agree, but seeing as how he made the post and has yet to reply to anything, and looks to not even be touching midas savage, one can only wonder. its either bait or a slowpoke post, because of all the references to gordias.

I was really into coil because the fights felt epic and the theme was something 'threatening'. While they tried to add story to alex, it is mostly fluff/silliness. I know it has a bit of serious undertones in the outside quests, but the boss fights themselves are silly and lighthearted. I want to fight something that makes you feel like the world is going to end (bahamut) not something that is going to make me laugh with silliness (like turning into gorillas)

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Originally Posted by Titor

I was really into coil because the fights felt epic and the theme was something 'threatening'. While they tried to add story to alex, it is mostly fluff/silliness. I know it has a bit of serious undertones in the outside quests, but the boss fights themselves are silly and lighthearted. I want to fight something that makes you feel like the world is going to end (bahamut) not something that is going to make me laugh with silliness (like turning into gorillas)

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This is what I thought at the start of Alex but then I remembered that FF has always had a tone of sillyness. I run the Apes in my group and it makes me chuckle still. I wish there was more back story to this set of raids, but it is possible that players of FFXI would have more references to relate to?

My opinion may be biased, as I am growing very tired and bored with the game as a whole, but I agree largely with you.

Raiding in coil felt much more fun and rewarding. As we progressed through fights, it felt amazing. In Alexander, so far, progression feels like a nuisance. I really enjoy my static, but the actual encounters are dreadful. I found the first floor of Midas Savage to be pretty fun, it really improved on the boring Midas Normal first floor. We are now on the second midas floor, and I really really dislike this fight. I find that you have to restart from the very beginning if you wipe to be a huge annoyance, for example.

I am raiding in WoW and wow it is amazing, by comparison. I love that they have 4 difficulties there too, LFR (DF void ark/midas normal level), normal (FFXIV absent), heroic (FFXIV absent), mythic (FFXIV savage). I find the environments are more engaging as you are running from boss to boss and not just queuing to an arena. I find the boss mechanics are more interesting and less frustrating. Granted, I have not got to mythic level (savage here), and perhaps I wouldn't like that as much. Perhaps, what I like, is that there is middle-level difficulty appropriate for my skill level.

In terms of raids in FFXIV, here is my order:

1. T9
2. T11
3. T5
4. T1
... (severe drop between 4 and 5) ...
5. T2
6. T13
7. T4
8. T3! \o/ (how do you hate this!?)
9. T12
... (severe drop between 9 and 10) ...
10. T10
11. T12
12. A5S
13. A1S
14. A2S
15. T7
16. T6
17. A6S

I never really got to do T8, A3S, A4S, A7S, A8S

For 24..

1. LOTA
... (severe drop between 1 and 2) ...
2. ST
... (severe drop between 2 and 3) ...
3. WOD
... (severe drop between 3 and 4) ...
... (severe drop between 3 and 4) ...
... (severe drop between 3 and 4) ...
4. VA

For Extreme Trials:
1. Thornmarch EX
2. Leviathan EX
3. Ramuh EX
4. Bismark EX
... (severe drop between 4 and 5) ...
5. Ifrit EX
6. Garuda EX
7. Shiva EX
8. Thordan EX
... (severe drop between 8 and 9) ...
9. Titan EX
10. Ravana EX
11. Sephirot EX

(sorry if I forgot any?)


Anyway, to each their own.
For Trials, I dislike the 'dances' (titan, rav, seph most notably). I really like the DPS coordination required in Thornmarch EX, where it is less about pushing DPS, but more about evenly distributing and holding back.
For Raids, there is too much to explain, but basically i like to move around - and I like to have mechanics outside of DPS/heal checks.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

It is sad though, I could care less about the plot of alexander, when I was always on the edge of my seat in coil. It's a true 180.

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I think Coil had a stronger storyline because we already knew what happened prior. Bahamut changed the entirety of Eorzea, he created a catastrophic disaster. And in Coil, we get to dive back into that story and figure out what really happened. We start our quest knowing what Bahamut did, and Coil is the time when we finally get to figure out all of the secrets.

And then we have Alexander. It's not entirely funny, nor is it entirely serious, it's just... a story plopped into our laps. Coil is very much like "And now is the time you learn about the secrets of the world you've spent all of your time exploring (through the 2.0 MSQ at least)" whereas Alexander is like "Hey that big thing in the lake that has vaguely been mentioned once ever is waking up now so do something about it. Oh look a new NPC."

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Originally Posted by LadyVal

And then we have Alexander. It's not entirely funny, nor is it entirely serious, it's just... a story plopped into our laps. Coil is very much like "And now is the time you learn about the secrets of the world you've spent all of your time exploring (through the 2.0 MSQ at least)" whereas Alexander is like "Hey that big thing in the lake that has vaguely been mentioned once ever is waking up now so do something about it. Oh look a new NPC."

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How the rest of the world reacts to Alexander is pretty lame too
"He's gonna wake up soon gaiz, he's scary honestly, when he wakes he's gonna mess you up, look he's sucking all the life out of the land" (very slowly if I do say so myself, the grass surrounding Alexander's feet is greener than my lawns and the water is probably pure enough to drink from)

One of the major things that makes Alexander savage less appealing is the normal mode. We've already seen the bosses, we've already heard the music, we've already saw the cutscenes and the gear design. There's no surprise at all except mechanics.

idc how unpopular it is with the casuals, the fact that coil gated the storyline made it feel awesome when you finally got the next instalment of the story after finally downing the boss, still remember when we at last cleared t9 and t12, those cutscenes...

Alex I don't even remember why we're here, a goblin found something, and then there was another woman who did something. I much prefer the more mechanically driven fights in midas, than gordias, but on its own merits, I only raid because it is the only challenging content available

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Originally Posted by randysquirrel

Alex I don't even remember why we're here, a goblin found something, and then there was another woman who did something. I much prefer the more mechanically driven fights in midas, than gordias, but on its own merits, I only raid because it is the only challenging content available

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Long story short, if the Goblins get Alexander fully functional they will be able to control all the cheese supplies. Basically there will not be any cheese for anyone besides the goblins. Not good....not good at all.

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Originally Posted by Yukiko

I wonder who of you have beaten AS8 yet...
Already complaining about boringness and not even seen the last fight?
True, back then when we made coil we had same topic but at least that time the players who complained had cleared the content and had the right to complain...
Still we were not complaining the difficult should be made harder, we were complaining that the mechanics were too boring!

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I think some people are complaining because we've already seen the cutscenes and music related to the fight.

Since A8S is PROBABLY going to feature mechanics from A8 (ramped up to Savage, of course) people do have the right to complain about that aspect of the fight. Also, what a weird mentality of "you can't complain if you haven't cleared!" - look at A3S. A ton of people had valid complaints about a fight that they were struggling to clear.

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Originally Posted by LadyVal

I think Coil had a stronger storyline because we already knew what happened prior.
"

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That and people probably felt more attached to the only story in the game where they had to try to win in order to continue and see the next part, even the guy in my old static who everyone in the group made fun of for "not being able to read" because he always skipped cutscenes shut up on TS and read through each scene when we (slowly) progressed through coil. Unfortunately there isn't anything like it anymore, SE thinks long term goals that build social bonds and tie people to the game are bad and instant gratification nownownow unsub a week after patch is good. I lost more friends just between 3.0 and 3.1 than I ever did from 2.0 to 2.5, I hope SE will change their mind by the next expansion as I don't want to lose any more friends.

Why can't we have Savage introduced first, then in a much later catch up patch, introduce normal mode? That way, raiders wouldn't have to worry about their "experience" being tarnished by running normal mode all the time. This **************essentially******** was the case with coil as well. It was available to the top-ish players first, then they mortally nerfed some encounters so people can get by easier to experience it. Casual players have literally everything else to the game catered to them as it is.

but hey, this won't happen

You know how we lost a dungeon per update for more content like Diadem and Palace of the Dead? I wish they'd do that with Savage... It isn't popular content, so work on something different instead...

Now, don't go taking that as me suggesting we should drop "challenging" content entirely, I'm simply saying do something different with those resources... I'd say the biggest issue with Savage is one of accessibility, you need seven other people on the same page as you, and most can't be bothered with that... So scale it back, give us 4-man Savage encounters instead, that would be much more accessible to everyone, and challenging 4-man content has been something requested for a long time now...

Unless the 8-man requirement is somehow core to the raiding experience, I don't see much problem with that... We'd still get similarly challenging pieces of content, but it would be much more accessible, which means more people will attempt it and justifying gated story/etc. becomes much easier...

Alternatively, I'll default to an old suggestion;

Basically flip the current way Normal/Savage work, and implement the Normal mode after the Savage mode has been cleared...

New Alexander gets released, both Normal and Savage difficulty.
The first quest everyone does is for the Savage difficulty, Normal cannot be accessed.
This quest automatically fails the moment one group on your server finishes it.
Upon a group finishing this quest, the Wandering Minstrel now grants access to the Normal mode.
Since one can imagine some servers may never clear Savage, a date would be set upon World First for Normal to be unlocked.
Savage can still be challenged, and the current reward dynamic remains the same.

You can do some interesting things with this... For starters, it has a built in Server First acknowledger... If your group clears Savage for your server, not only can the Wandering Minstrel acknowledge that in the Normal mode quest, but that Savage quest which only one group can clear? You can attached something special to that... Essentially treat the cutting edge raiding community in a similar way to how PvP and Feast are being handled... Got Server First? Here's a piece of vanity armor/mount/minion/furniture/title/etc. that nobody else on your server will ever have... Other than the other seven people you cleared with, that is...

An exclusive reward like that might drum up some initial hype behind Savage, get more people interested in trying it out... I mean... Is there even a reward for even getting World First at this point? I mean yeah, Yoshida might say congratulations on the forums, but who cares? Mounts and Minions, on the other hand, a lot of people care about those... If everyone knew one was locked behind World/Server First... Well, if it doesn't generate interest in it, it will at the very least create some entertaining drama from entitled crybabies - Can't have enough of that these days...

Right now the only reward I see for Savage at all, is an item level boost which is both not required for any other content in the game, and entirely irrelevant in a game that burns through item levels at the rate XIV does... I have no interest in Savage for pretty much that exact reason... I don't care about the rewards at all, those rewards exist to make Savage easier, and I'm not going to follow the cyclical logic of "I raid to get better gear to raid!"... Even the story doesn't strike me as a good reward... I still haven't done T13, know why? Same reason I'm only just getting Kirin, I don't enjoy finding seven other people to jump rope with, meanwhile I have an absolute blast duoing content... That said, I have no problem with them locking such stuff behind Savage, pretty much for that reason... Not a lot of people cleared Coil when it was relevant, so what? A level cap came in and made clearing it trivial... Those resources weren't wasted on a 1% that cleared Coil, those cutscenes are still there and still available for people to go do...

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Originally Posted by Nalien

You know how we lost a dungeon per update for more content like Diadem

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Are you saying this was a good idea?

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Are you saying this was a good idea?

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Yes? Diadem kinda sucks, but the developers should never stick to repeating the same sorry template over and over... Just repeating the same stale thing over and over is going to stagnate the game, they need to take risks making new types of content, rather than hoping their linear dungeon template can carry the game for a few more years...

That third dungeon really amounted to nothing more than the same corridor with a different paint job... I'll admit, I'm kind of lost when people complain about the state of Expert Roulette, two dungeons is repetitive? Really? Three wasn't? Christ... SE could produce ten dungeons for the Expert Roulette, but if they're all the same cookie cutter dungeons we currently get, I'd be bored of them pretty quickly anyway... I'd much rather take a chance on something like Diadem (which actually has plenty of potential, SE is just ignoring it, sadly) than stick to the same tired system...

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Originally Posted by Mindy_Macready

When they do that, subs will begin dropping en masse.

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I think you're vastly overestimating the number of people that care about Savage, and also entirely ignoring the rest of my post...

Like I said, unless 8-man requirements are the key defining point for raid content, I see no reason why we can't scale down challenging content from 8 to 4-man. We'd still have a similar sort of thing going on, we'd still have the challenging content for best rewards, but it would be far more accessible, and arguably easier to balance and fine tune...

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Originally Posted by Nalien

You know how we lost a dungeon per update for more content like Diadem and Palace of the Dead? I wish they'd do that with Savage... It isn't popular content, so work on something different instead...

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When they do that, subs will begin dropping en masse.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Yes? Diadem kinda sucks, but the developers should never stick to repeating the same sorry template over and over... Just repeating the same stale thing over and over is going to stagnate the game, they need to take risks making new types of content, rather than hoping their linear dungeon template can carry the game for a few more years...

That third dungeon really amounted to nothing more than the same corridor with a different paint job... I'll admit, I'm kind of lost when people complain about the state of Expert Roulette, two dungeons is repetitive? Really? Three weren't? Christ... SE could produce ten dungeons for the Expert Roulette, but if they're all the same cookie cutter dungeons we currently get, I'd be bored of them pretty quickly anyway... I'd much rather take a chance on something like Diadem (which actually has plenty of potential, SE is just ignoring it, sadly) than stick to the same tired system...

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I agree they shouldn't stick to repeating the same stale thing over and over, but in addition to dropping the 3rd dungeon - the other 2 have become increasingly uninspired. Dungeons are a big thing in MMO's and they don't all have to be the same thing. So I don't agree with taking resources away from dungeons, I'd agree with putting resources in it to make each one more unique in style, substance and flow. The last time I enjoyed a dungeon on release was Keeper of the Lake, Amdapor Hard and Wanderers Hard. I enjoyed all 3 of these. I've really, really, really hated Dusk Vigil, The Aery, Sohm Al, The Vault, Gubal Library, Fractals, Arboretum. I dislike Neverreap, Aetherochemical, Antitower and Lost City hard.

That said, I want dungeons that are like none of the above that add some mix to how it works. The devs have, for whatever reason, so few resources. They keep spreading them so thin that instead of making a few pieces of quality content, they are making loads of really bad content. Quality over quantity.

As for sticking to the same template. I agree, they need to branch out. However, the design team has showed that they are incapable of designing interesting content outside of their core. So, maybe they need to stick to their strengths.

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Originally Posted by Yasuhiro

How the rest of the world reacts to Alexander is pretty lame too
"He's gonna wake up soon gaiz, he's scary honestly, when he wakes he's gonna mess you up, look he's sucking all the life out of the land" (very slowly if I do say so myself, the grass surrounding Alexander's feet is greener than my lawns and the water is probably pure enough to drink from)

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The fish are fine too, I fish next to alexander all the time .-.

I am bummed the gear is garbage. I enjoy MNK and challenging myself with raiding.. But it is kinda boring...

I hope they dont make more like Alexander.

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Originally Posted by CookieMonsta

The elephant in the room, is that the Old SCOB Savage difficulty has now become the norm for progression. Very few cleared the old savage SCOB raids and those that did, did it for the challenge only. The old coils were tuned mostly perfect for the vast majority of raiders. Now, you are forcing a very large and dwindling pool of raiders attuned to coil difficulties to do savage and the net result is decimation.

It ultimately boils down to Alex NM being a mistake, its too undertuned to be worthwile and Savage being too hard for the majority.

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I definitely agree with this. I think the main issue is that there's no non-hardcore raiding tier (I honestly have no idea what else to call non-hardcore raiding because casual doesn't seem to fully cover the sentiment). You either get savage difficulty or feather-duster. They honestly need more people to work on the raid content to make 2 tiers but they don't have the manpower to do it :(.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

You know how we lost a dungeon per update for more content like Diadem and Palace of the Dead? I wish they'd do that with Savage...

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I don't agree. I wish they would make more savage stuff. Actually, they should make more raids and harder content, not JUST alex. I'm not a HC player at all, but I am sick to death of retard mode outside of savage raids. SE needs to make things harder for the good of everyone. I'm not saying make everything gated or savage mode, but they nerfed steps of faith because people said it was too hard. It was not. People just need to learn how to read and how to coordinate. If the baddies want to face roll shit, please go play mobile games. I for one want this game to be challenging, so it feels good when I clear something.

edit: oops

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Originally Posted by Lithe

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Steps of Faith got nerfed because it was a gate to 3.0 and it wouldn't look good on Square if their players can't access content they paid for. Not to mention that a lot of people decided to eat a penalty than to deal with people that can't follow instructions.

Wouldn't mind a Steps of Faith Ex.

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Originally Posted by Lithe

I don't agree. I wish they would make more savage stuff.

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Again, I wasn't saying "Don't add difficult content", I was pointing out that the 8-man requirement is what is gating a lot of players interest in Savage, so why make the challenging content 8-man? We have no challenging 4-man content, so I'd suggest dropping Alexander (Savage) for the next expansion, and instead having challenging 4-man content replace it... More accessible as statics are easier to form... Arguably easier to balance... Better chance for loot as well, although that's perhaps an issue they'd need to address (8 people would go from 1 drop a week to 2, for example). Like I said, unless being 8-man is the defining point for raid content, I don't see an issue with this...

I have zero problems with challenging content, in fact I prefer it. That's even part of the reason I don't do Savage anymore, XIV has an awful "Read the Guide" culture that I just don't enjoy, so I'm stuck either finding 7 other people who agree with that and are willing to challenge content blind (and I've just about given up on that), or just read a guide and not enjoy the content at all... That's part of why I love the old 2.0 stuff right now, going in duo and taking things on with odd setups (Paladin + Dark Knight, for example) is far more entertaining than the current relevant content... That's one reason why I also think they should gate stuff behind things like Savage... OK, a small minority will see that story when it is relevant, but what's wrong with that? People seem to claim Coil was wasted development, because so few did it, yet... Coil is still there... People can still go through it and make it fairly trivial these days... What's the problem with how Coil was handled? People didn't get to see the cutscenes when the gear was relevant? Please... There was no reason for them to change the raid story this dramatically IMO... Gated content is perfectly fine when that gate is going to be crushed underfoot by an incoming level cap rise... Same reason the nerfs and Echo bonuses for Coil were entirely pointless IMO...

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Originally Posted by Nalien

OK, a small minority will see that story when it is relevant, but what's wrong with that?

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There was an 81-page thread that covered, at length, why some people felt there was something wrong with that. Given that SE added a story mode for Alexander, it's clear that they agreed to some measure.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

People seem to claim Coil was wasted development, because so few did it, yet... Coil is still there...

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I don't think people felt Coil was wasted development, but that it was a disproportionate amount of development time and resources given the portion of the player base that was able to experience the vast majority of it at the time. That's not limited just to the story aspect of it. You can argue over how compelling it is, but there's a case to be made against any content that 5% of the player base (at best) experiences getting as much development time and resources as Coil did.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

People can still go through it and make it fairly trivial these days... What's the problem with how Coil was handled? People didn't get to see the cutscenes when the gear was relevant?

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Is it significantly easier (generally to the point of triviality) now? Certainly. That took no small amount of time though, and it does matter to some people that they're unable to see some portion of a story that covers significant parts of the game's lore, especially given how story-driven FFXIV is up to that point.

Would we have seen as many people making the argument for a story mode if we'd had Alexander as the raid in 2.0, and Coil's story had been told through some other method(s)? We'll never know, but I doubt it.

Just because it has a story why does it have to be face roll easy? Coil was only hard for 3 months at a time, if people didnt want to put the effort into it while it was current then they had to wait. Which again goes back to the instant gratification and the ME ME ME crowd which is the majority. In the end though nothing will ever be like coil again and everything will stay a face roll no matter what the content is. This will keep the % up high on content and nothing will feel "wasted" during current content periods.

Id also like to say that I am by no means an amazing player and struggled a bit all through the coil series but I got it done and the satisfaction I felt after completing them was great. Jump a year or so to Alex and none of that same feeling is there.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

Wouldn't mind a Steps of Faith Ex.

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its not the topic but(no thanks) we need more new content not recycled content

I miss the Coil days... :<

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Originally Posted by Nalien

I think you're vastly overestimating the number of people that care about Savage, and also entirely ignoring the rest of my post...

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That line of arguing is hyperbole. I can just as easily say "you're vastly underestimating the number of people that care about Savage" and we've accomplished nothing.

Also, please don't assume I haven't read your post, or I wouldn't have replied to it, thanks.

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Originally Posted by Lithe

I'm not saying make everything gated or savage mode, but they nerfed steps of faith because people said it was too hard. It was not. People just need to learn how to read

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I think these little screen texts were a failure of SE. The text is small. The time to read is short. And they are not really an eyecatcher.

In my opinion all these "in fight" texts should have voice acting, like they did it in the battle on the big bridge. Looking back to the Ultima fight in castrum. Two years after release I did notice that Hydaelyn it talking to us. Not during the fight. I noticed it during my video cut.

Voice acting in fights like steps could IMHO hugely increase the success rate dramatically. Even without the nerfs they did. With good voices it would also feel more epic :)

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Originally Posted by KarstenS

I think these little screen texts were a failure of SE. The text is small. The time to read is short. And they are not really an eyecatcher.
snip

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the text is in a giant text bubble in the middle of the screen, as well as being in the chat box.

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Originally Posted by Kaze3434

[/B]
the text is in a giant text bubble in the middle of the screen, as well as being in the chat box.

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When you are fully focussing the fight with all mechanics currently happen and your best gameplay at the same time, there is no time to read the text or even to recognise they are there at all. Hell. When everything is new, you tunnel vision more than anything else. And back to our example with steps: It is something you need to do only once.

Also bubles with much text (german translation) disappear way to fast (and I'm already reading very fast).

If people would recognise and read the text bubbles in the fights, steps and many other fights would not cause so much issue. Voices on top of text could help alot.

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Originally Posted by KarstenS

When you are fully focussing the fight with all mechanics currently happen and your best gameplay at the same time, there is no time to read the text or even to recognise they are there at all. Hell. When everything is new, you tunnel vision more than anything else. And back to our example with steps: It is something you need to do only once.

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Ya, at least Heavensward improved on this, the issue with Steps was up to that point in the game, there were no mechanics set to teach you about everything that was happening. There was no Lance to attack target but then needing to use two chains to chain up and time it properly, on top of that it was very unforgiving, you miss, you pretty much failed.


Had they wanted to keep the difficulty the way it was what they could of done was add an instance beforehand that pretty much taught you the mechanics of each device being used.

Are you using Cannons, well keep this in mind X, Y, Z do these things, be certain to keep an eye and use them appropriately to increase odds of success.

You see those two chains on the side near the cannon? Use those to subdue the Dragon as it moves forward so that the Lance can pierce it's hide. -Now let's practice- when the Dragon attempts to use it's move to destroy the cannons fire the chains to subdue it. Then if you fail you just try again til you get it right.

Finally the Lances, when the order is given fire it at the dragon, but make sure someone is up there ready to do it. Then you go up there and practice 3 times, using it the order is given with the 3rd time having the order being given when you see both chains on the target.

That type of practice would of prepared people for the encounter but because it was done so blindly it turned more into a mess and a very unforgiving one at that because of how long each attempt took. You couldn't kill yourself and start over you had to wait til they breached the gate and then ask the dragon if it was ok to do best out of 3.

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Originally Posted by Mindy_Macready

That line of arguing is hyperbole. I can just as easily say "you're vastly underestimating the number of people that care about Savage" and we've accomplished nothing.

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Yeah... Except SE provided census data on this;

http://i.imgur.com/6ax1Wyr.png

That isn't clears, that's just people who entered... Less than 20% of the people who did Normal went on to enter A1S, there is quite clearly an issue here... Either people aren't interested, or it is inaccessible to them for whatever reason. I assume the former, while suggesting a fix for the later. Feel free to, you know, actually weigh in on that... It's old data for A1~4, but I really doubt much has changed since then... I imagine the Midas is much the same, while Gordias will have more numbers now (certainly with that Anima step), but that ~200k isn't even half this games estimated playerbase (last I checked that was 600k~700k).

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Originally Posted by Mindy_Macready

Also, please don't assume I haven't read your post, or I wouldn't have replied to it, thanks.

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How about actually responding to the suggestion then... Removing hardcore content from the game was not my suggestion, doing something different with it, and hopefully making it more accessible, was... Do you actually think people would quit en-mass if SE provided content that was just as rewarding and challenging, but easier to get into?

If you don't want me to assume, post more than a few bleedin' sentences...

It might be fun sometimes but the fact is... it's not as good as Coils.

having 3 series of Alex raid for the entire 3.X is not a good thing. Why should I get excited for the third part? Oh, I can fight several robots inside the giant robot, just like Gordias and Midas. I can't wait!!! no...

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Originally Posted by Nalien

That isn't clears, that's just people who entered...

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I wanted to correct this and say that the data you provided most likely are clear rates and that they probably incorrectly translated that text for the slide.

The reason I say this is because Elysium's A3S World First is dated July 28th, 2015. Since the data is taken between July 7th to August 21st, I'm pretty certain there were a handful of people who did walk into A4S by then. This difference in information should have you at least reconsider your stance a little.

16% clear rate for the first tier of the toughest content in the game sounds about right given the overall skill level of the player base (when comparing those who cleared normal versus cleared Savage). I imagine the amount of people who actually tried the content is at least double the clear rate. So, if you assume 70K people entered A1S, that's a 10% general population interest rate (based on your 700K player base total) and a 5% clear rate of the total population.

That isn't that bad in my mind for content designed for a much higher level of play. It would be interesting to see how many players in contrast attend / cleared / compete in things like Triple Triad, PvP, Chocobo Rising / Racing, and LoV.

*Has nothing else to add to the discussion and poofs away*