No sense of fear in this game.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

Not gonna happen, you might enjoy losing exp when you die but not everyone else will, and exp loss is moot at level cap.

Also whenever someone starts these threads you only see people agreeing, but no one actually suggests anything.

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I already made a suggestion.. a dangerous area in which we can kill things for better rewards where there is an actual risk. I could go into detail but it's kind of self explanatory.

I'm pretty sure the experience loss part was just an example too, not a request.

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

I already made a suggestion.. a dangerous area in which we can kill things for better rewards where there is an actual risk. I could go into detail but it's kind of self explanatory.

I'm pretty sure the experience loss part was just an example too, not a request.

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Is the risk losing all the items in your inventory? Or losing everything you obtained while you're there? Or risk yelling at the healer for not healing you if it's party content? Or no risk for healers if it's solo content as they wouldn't die? You mentioned a content from Runescape but you admit you don't know how it would be implemented here, so it seems more like a runescape anecdote than a suggestion.

You're not supposed to be scared. You're the almighty warrior of light, protected by a Goddess and a master of combat. You have the power to SLAY GODS, SLAY FRIKKIN GODS.

Why would you ever be scared?

Masochism naturally

It's an MMO, not a horror game. There shouldn't be a sense of 'fear'.

Needing groups to do petty overworld stuff is archaic design as well and it's just a needless pain in the butt more than anything scary.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

Is the risk losing all the items in your inventory? Or losing everything you obtained while you're there? Or risk yelling at the healer for not healing you if it's party content? Or no risk for healers if it's solo content as they wouldn't die? You mentioned a content from Runescape but you admit you don't know how it would be implemented here, so it seems more like a runescape anecdote than a suggestion.

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Again, it was an example. I'm not a developer. It's not my job to come up with exact implementations and even if I did, SE are undoubtedly not going to use my suggestion. What's your problem anyway if the content was optional?

You realise yelling at the healers already happens right? And what do you mean healers won't die so there's no risk? Try soloing a Dragonskin map as a healer in il180 gear. I'm really not sure why you're so defensive over having dangerous content which you don't even have to participate in.

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Originally Posted by Ditto

Theres a lot of odd things going on around here. But so far I'm really like the Falling From High Places expansion.

"You came to the wrong neighborhood warrior of light"
http://i.imgur.com/8CyhiRp.jpg

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Sounds like they need to unfix this fun part when Heavensward first came out. =D

Well we all know there's the fear of reset in an hour and you are nowhere near your weekly cap :p

I think the Diadem should be used as a template for danger in the open world. We fly passed everything anyways, so why not make them more interesting. Even 1.x had the open world more interesting by having treasure coffers appear in Beastmen strongholds and the Beastmen would drop keys occasionally to go open them.

That said, I would love for them to adopt the outlaw/criminal PvP system from Tera/Ultima Online/Etc. Give us the ability to request duels from other players. Also give players the ability to attack other players, making them become labeled as criminals/murderers until they are killed. Allow everyone the ability to kill these criminals/murderers without penalty. It would make for a much more interesting time waiting for raids, and just in general. Of course, sanctuaries could remain as safe havens.

There was a sense of "fear of mobs" back in FFXIV 1.0-1.23; and players didn't take kindly to it. "Bad game design" it was dubbed.

Originally, there were certain aggressive high-level mobs that could be dragged all the way to the main city zone lines (newbie area), the lvl 50 Peiste near Uldah is the most prevalent in my memory. This was fixed in 1.xx somewhere.

I also remember back when the Black Shroud was mostly corridors between clearings that mid-level aggressive skeletons could spawn at night the further you went south from Camp Bentbranch:
http://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acci...536464dd15.jpg

This made the southern Black Shroud dangerous at night.

Thanlan also had mid-level aggressive antlions patrolling a couple areas that seen high-traffic of players (I think it was the path between Blackbrush and Drybone). If you had business in Drybone and were unable (or unwilling) to teleport, you had to scan the area they patrolled if you weren't above level 20 or so.

Then there was 1.0 Coerthas. A giant zone of nothing but "what's out over here?" and sightseeing.

http://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acci...4fc81c3d1d.png

Half of the areas had nothing in all directions and some Aetherytes were literally out in the middle of nowhere, but a lot of these areas had mobs well over level 50 that meant certain death after several hits should you get aggro. That made getting to aetheryte camps long treks of aggro-dodging. In fact, I think one of the 2 Aetherytes in 1.0 Mor Dhona needed you to sneak by high level mobs that could drop you in 2 hits.

Mind you, there were no mounts for longest time in 1.0, and for a while literally nearly every mob had a ranged attack.

People didn't like any of that and cried "bad game design," and here we are today- complaining that we got heavied on our mounts to our destination. Our playerbase could never handle "danger."

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

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No need to get so defensive, I'm saying every time this topic comes up no one really does a solid suggestion, everybody wants risk but they don't define what exactly they want, if you don't know what you want how do you expect devs to consider your vague request? I only spoke against exp loss, and I'm asking you (and the rest of the posters here) what kind of fear-inducing content you all want, how exactly it creates fear and how it would work with our current game.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

It's an MMO, not a horror game. There shouldn't be a sense of 'fear'.

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I think you're missing the point. The point is that there is little to no risk in overworld areas. This actually has a domino effect on the rest of the game. Without risk, there's less reward. Less of an incentive for people to explore maps or find new areas. To be fair the maps aren't really designed with exploration in mind for the most part either, but this is an issue that goes hand-in-hand with risks and rewards.

In FFXI you were often rewarded for your exploration. Whether it's finding a new rare notorious monster, or some unique mining/harvesting points there was always something to be seen. Getting past enemy lines wasn't just something you stormed through like a bull, you had to be sneaky which added to the risk and the enjoyment.

The problem is that the easier you make something, the more you can do it. The more you can do something, the more mundane and boring it becomes. Keeping things interesting, and challenging is the key to a games' longevity, because people will always want to experience the fun parts time and time again. When the task is its own reward, you've hit the nirvana of game design. No need for arbitrary trinkets or tokens when the feeling of accomplishment is so high.

Of course, that's not a tool which has been used to great effect in FFXIV so far. I can only hope that they give it some strong consideration for future progress.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

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I would like an optional area in which you can kill mobs or other players. You would have a separate leveling system like PvP. If you die, you could lose levels/the rewards you have earned. The higher level you are the higher rewards you can receive. This provides risk, is completely optional and also has rewards.

Unless u r a leafer/new adventurer then no, there's not any fear in this game. The only real fear is a S rank but the spawn rank is so terrible its unlikely. Maybe A ranks too if it's HW.

This is one of my only dislikes with this game, it's too safe. They try to hard to make this appealing to new players..


Like. There's NOTHING out there. There's no hard enemies, u can solo anything besides hunts and fates.



Like seriously SE. Give us hard enemies that respawn, put a rare item drop on it to give players incentive to farm it, make it single combat also so others wont ruin ur fun and u cant get too much help(challenging..)

And who cares if some jobs will be more viable for killing said monsters. Guess what jobs ARE different.

I think I can understand what the OP is saying. There's no real consequences for your actions. I remember the days of Ultima Online. The only safe places were within the guard zones of the cities, and even then you weren't completely safe. Stepping outside of those safe zones to go adventuring could result in disastrous consequences. If you died, all of your items would be located on your corpse which could be looted by anyone. There were consequences if you looted the body as well. If you were "blue" and looted another "blue" body, you would go "grey" for a little while and could be attacked by other players. There were consequences for almost every choice you made, choices that many MMO players today take for granted.

You didn't lose skills or levels, so your character's progress was never in danger. It was just the items you carried. A favorite saying back then was "Never leave town with anything that you cannot afford to lose."

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

I don't know if fear is the right word, but I never feel like anything out in the world is particularly challenging or a danger to me. There are no WoW style high level enemies patrolling zones that will destroy you if you're in the wrong place at the wrong time.
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Um... what WoW title are you playing? I haven't died to anything like that in WoW in at least two xpacs--so that's like... YEARS. Now RIFT on the other hand... yeah, don't AFK on a road... or anywhere that's not a major city... EVER.

I was popping in to this thread to say "Hey, FFXIV is WAY better than WoW for that feeling of danger" but heck, maybe I'm playing both games wrong or something, idk. /shrug

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

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That risk came from the inability to solo a single enemy and the death penalty, both which would be considered archaic game designs if you were to apply it everywhere in the world. We're far too late to have an open world that cannot be walked without a party, and any change towards that direction would probably be the end of this game, just like any other game that still uses that archaic design.

The system proposed by WinterLuna is much better in that aspect, as it doesn't mess with the rest of the open world areas.

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

I would like an optional area in which you can kill mobs or other players. You would have a separate leveling system like PvP. If you die, you could lose levels/the rewards you have earned. The higher level you are the higher rewards you can receive. This provides risk, is completely optional and also has rewards.

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To start said new area you will need to log off and click on the specific new area Icon. From there you even get to create a new character and have completely separate stats. Its almost like your playing a completely different game.

Apologies X) that was the first thing I thought of when you said that... I wouldn't mind a sense of fear, but can see how it may get tiresome after a while.

When you first start out you are just a sprout and have a fear of the world. You are weak,but eventually you progress through the zones getting stronger. This is to show you when you reach level 60 that you have grown stronger and no longer fear the world because you are stronger than the majority of the mobs.

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Originally Posted by Maxipep

Wouldn't it be great if the odd A rank suddenly appeared in the Markets. The Carnage, the emergency response button that instantly changes you to your main character (that hasn't been developed yet) The gil sellers dying on the spot, along with all the lower levels.

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That would be AWESOME! I fully support this idea.

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Originally Posted by Kaizer

To start said new area you will need to log off and click on the specific new area Icon. From there you even get to create a new character and have completely separate stats. Its almost like your playing a completely different game.

Apologies X) that was the first thing I thought of when you said that... I wouldn't mind a sense of fear, but can see how it may get tiresome after a while.

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That's what everyone said about PvP in relation to FF. They can add this and still keep the theme of the game. It would get tiresome.. but everything does if you repeat it over and over. And again, nobody has to do it. It's optional :)

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Originally Posted by Xlantaa

Try gathering when there are mobs around and you forget activate stealth. You will see...

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I do that all the time that's not really feer that's me not really caring to tough because you don't have a sense of feer you just get pissed of. Since levelling class to do with gathering is a pain as it is. Or even if ur just gathering for extra stuff it's still just boring and long in my honest opinion.

You haven't sensed true fear until you try to craft something with millions of gils worth of mats and praying you don't DC or get too many hasty failures or a proc in the wrong place, or finishing with less than 100% HQ quality chance, the list goes on and on.

Play PVP and you'll know that fear when you get bads on your team.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

...And it would be nice to see a couple of areas be more dangerous. But nowadays you have to include good rewards with that danger to make it worth while. Everyone is focused on the tome treadmill and capping that the rewards have to be enough to take them away from it, maybe this is what Palace of the Dead could be. But I would love to see an open world dungeon like that instead of instanced.

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Having open world dungeons world make things lot more interesting everything being a DF waiting game kind of takes you out of the world/game that's what I think anyway. But got to say I miss the mobs that would attack you on smell, sight and sound. That's what would really shake things up. If they brought back the spell for invis, the spell that hides ur scent and the one that made it so you made no sound as you walk. That really would add to fear to the game but at the same time they would have to make mobs that attack on sound, smell and sight.

You mean "fear" like the old school MMO days where people hugged the zone edges to explore and only camped at entrances so they wouldn't die? No thanks. Sometimes I wonder if people know what they're asking for.

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Originally Posted by Blackcanary

Having open world dungeons world make things lot more interesting everything being a DF waiting game kind of takes you out of the world/game that's what I think anyway. But got to say I miss the mobs that would attack you on smell, sight and sound. That's what would really shake things up. If they brought back the spell for invis, the spell that hides ur scent and the one that made it so you made no sound as you walk. That really would add to fear to the game but at the same time they would have to make mobs that attack on sound, smell and sight.

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That sounds more like annoyance rather than fear.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

This game is designed on a completely different premise than XI, so it makes sense that it's vastly different even in terms of just how the world feels on a basic level. The key concept to FFXIV is accessibility. They want this to be the kind of game that a casual player can pick up and tinker with every so often and still have fun with it. Deleveling and long treks through dangerous areas just don't fit into that concept. You want dangerous, go try gathering in the Diadem without a bodyguard. Stealth doesn't work, the mobs aggro just by getting close to them, and everything will almost certainly one-shot you. xD

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What level do you have to be to be to do that my gathering jobs are all level 25 right now. If you have to be level 50 by that time I think SE knowing what they are like will nurf it some how so it not that dangerous and more suitable for a casual player lmao.

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

I'm sure people will make fun of this example but does anyone remember old school Runescape? :p

If you entered the wilderness and someone or something killed you, you pretty much lost everything, and other players could pick up what you lost. It was a PvP area but completely optional. People also used to go there to kill mobs because their loot was worth crazy money.

I'm not saying implement exactly this, it would be impossible, but something along these lines is really exciting. An optional area that's actually risky and gives decent enough rewards that people are willing to take the risk.

Again, make it optional. Then everyone is happy.

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I smiled as I was reading ur comment and your right no matter what it would have to be optional because SE is all about the casual players when it comes to this game.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

I think you're missing the point.

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No, I got the point just fine, as indicated by the rest of my post.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Needing groups to do petty overworld stuff is archaic design as well and it's just a needless pain in the butt more than anything scary.

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Calling it a 'sense of fear' though is just terrible wording.

I also want to address this part of your post.

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Keeping things interesting, and challenging is the key to a games' longevity,

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If this was true, World of Warcraft and Final Fantasy XIV wouldn't be currently blowing FFXI out of the water in every way shape and form, even if you take the high points of FFXI's life whenever it had the most subscribers, it STILL wouldn't compare.

People don't like to be challenged anymore, and games that you can play casually that don't feel the need to make EVERYTHING difficult and/or challenging will always be more successful. Especially for people that have jobs and real life priorities.

Don't get me wrong, I raid savage, I love challenging stuff. But the days where you need to commit yourself to get anything done are long gone, and honestly? I don't miss them one bit.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

Not gonna happen, you might enjoy losing exp when you die but not everyone else will, and exp loss is moot at level cap.

Also whenever someone starts these threads you only see people agreeing, but no one actually suggests anything.

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Well when I stated the delevel I was using that as an example of fear from another game.

Now what SE could do is to bring back Mobs that attack on scent, sight and smell. They could easily do that in the next expsion pack or even in a patch update. They could even have one or two dungeons that are opened world which would be optional since it is an open world dungeon. You ether go in or you don't this would not only have great rewards for adventure that think they are up for a challenge but would also give room for people that want to try out the soloing skill and taste their ability in this world.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

That Clockwork Bit near the Adamantite node in Azys Lla is kinda scary...

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I've actually seen a level 60 miner and his chocobo take down that clockwork bit.

And, as someone else mentioned, if you want heart-pounding adventures just try endgame crafting. Is the most terrifying thing in this game. Every failed hasty touch makes you sweat. You have an 80% chance to HQ that i170 BSM main hand tool. And then...normal quality. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Over a million gil worth of mats down the drain. True story ;_;. So scary.

On a serious note, I like the idea of S ranks going on a rampage and needing to be stopped before they decimate all the low level characters. Makes the maps a little more dangerous sometimes, but not all the time.

You want fear? Find where the nearest "bad part of town" to you is, then move there, making sure to display your console or gaming rig as proudly as you can during moving day, so the whole neighborhood sees. Spend at least a year living there. You'll have enough fear to last you for a lifetime, both online and off.

More seriously, as an adult with a full-time job that deals daily with "fear" and all sorts of other emotions, it's nice hopping on to my fantasy character in a fantasy world and having absolutely zero "kupos" to give about being afraid of anything.

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Originally Posted by KeiranOlive

You have an 80% chance to HQ that i170 BSM main hand tool. And then...

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Originally Posted by Maxipep

odd A rank suddenly appeared in the Markets. The Carnage, the emergency response button that instantly changes you to your main character

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And you lose materials, of course.

I play MMOs to have fun and explore new areas, prettty hard to do that when the mobs are too challenging, it's not fearsome, it's annoying. That is one reason I generally don't play MMOs based on ITs because I want to see new stuff I know nothing about.

Also, the old MMOs like FF XI are dead and outdated, if you want challenge you can always play challenging single player games, or horror games. FF XIV is not FF XI, FF XIV is a modern game.

Personally when I'm in the mood for horror I play horror videogames, like Vampire the Mascarede: Bloodlines, the haunted mansion and the nut house can be quite scary... and draining those foolish humans can be quite entertaining.

Anyway, I tried Amnesia: The Dark Descent's demo and I did not find the game scary at all, but I could not even at least explore the areas, because the game kept saying "I'm too scared, I'm losing my sanity, no! Don't go!".

The scariest game I've played is Silent Hill, what a gem of a game!

I think people are taking the word "fear" a little too literally. The OP is asking for more risk.

Well the title and the tags shouldn't have "fear" then.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Well the title and the tags shouldn't have "fear" then.

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I didn't say they should.

often fear = frustration/bothering = not fun... and this for a lot of people.
same open dungeon will not be fun or interesting, it will be zerged, no fear, no danger... only frustration and bother.

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No sense of fear in this game.

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I can solve that problem. Make a hardcore mode, like in Diablo. Or like Runescape, where you lose everything except your 3 most expensive items. Not sure if it'd be possible to do in this game, but you get the idea...