FFXIV moved away from auto-attack while WOW went without... how odd.

If the Stamina bar and/or the "11111211112" system comes back this game would surely die a painful death, I've seen far too many give up on the game pre 1.18 due to that dreadful combat system.

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Originally Posted by Choyi

If the Stamina bar and/or the "11111211112" system comes back this game would surely die a painful death, I've seen far too many give up on the game pre 1.18 due to that dreadful combat system.

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Exactly - I'd like to offset arthritis in my fingers before I'm in my forties from jamming out endless lines of 1s and 2s.

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Originally Posted by Enyyx

+1 for hoping 2.0 gets rid of auto attack again.

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I hope so. I hate auto attack, so only DPS class I have that I enjoy playing is ARC... which is pretty much useless to have now since no one will take them in parties =/

IMO they should make it work like Mabinogi does.

• Auto attack isn't going anywhere.
  
• It's not an "out of date" system. It's just an alternative.
  
• Pandaren have existed in WoW lore since Warcraft 3 as a side gag. It's been used as an April fools gag at least once before.
  
• This is a silly thread.

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Originally Posted by Andrien

I cant tell if you guys are serious or not...or probably have a serious case of ADHD.


I just cant fathom why pressing 111111 over and over is fun. Like if this is a rambo hack and slash game.

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Pressing 1111 over again shouldnt be the alternative to auottack lol.

Why do you think this?

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Originally Posted by Choyi

If the Stamina bar and/or the "11111211112" system comes back this game would surely die a painful death, I've seen far too many give up on the game pre 1.18 due to that dreadful combat system.

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Many hype up Guild Wars 2 and Blade and Soul and TERA precisely because those games dont have autoattack as a backbone to their combat system. so saying people will quit without autoattack is a stretch.

There were multiple ways they could have "revamped" the combat system. And quite frankly adding autoattack wasn't it.

Auto attack, you say?

http://www.hurleytom.com/images/DeadHorse400x231.jpg

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Originally Posted by ellohwell

Many hype up Guild Wars 2 and Blade and Soul and TERA precisely because those games dont have autoattack as a backbone to their combat system. so saying people will quit without autoattack is a stretch.

There were multiple ways they could have "revamped" the combat system. And quite frankly adding autoattack wasn't it.

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the game is just not suited for a very action style of gameplay like the ones you mentioned, to get it like that, 90% of the game would have to be fully re-done (combat,mosters,skills,class balance,events...ect) which they clearly have no time for.

There is a reason why games like GW2 exist..so you can play them also. Either you don't liek this games combat, so you quit and wait for those games or you don't prefer it and play another game along side it.

the combat isnt being changed now, you have to realize its just not an option for them anytime soon.

say that when the new combo system come, and we ll see which suit for which

The system they are doing for Monk in WoW fits their battle speed and pace where you start with a full bar of focus/mana and start doing attacks, and/or in the case of rage you gain it using skills or a few auto-attack swings.

It will not fit in XIV's pace where the game's mechanic lies in generating TP to do skills.

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Originally Posted by Darkvalkyr

The system they are doing for Monk in WoW fits their battle speed and pace where you start with a full bar of focus/mana and start doing attacks, and/or in the case of rage you gain it using skills or a few auto-attack swings.

It will not fit in XIV's pace where the game's mechanic lies in generating TP to do skills.

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WOW has classes that work in TP-like ways, like Warrior, Druid, and Death Knight.

The real reason why Monk works on WOW's system is because they have a well optimized, lag-free combat system. FFXIV's engine and combat are crawling compared to WOW's.

Yoshi announced in one of his recent interviews, a new more involved battle system that involved the stacking of actions, I just can't remember the name of it...

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Originally Posted by Buddhsie

Yoshi announced in one of his recent interviews, a new more involved battle system that involved the stacking of actions, I just can't remember the name of it...

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Its the combo system. Not much has been said about it other than what you stated.

Either way I'm sure that it'll allow a faster combat pace than what we have now, and at the moment I rarely find myself just auto attacking for more than a second.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

It's funny you say that because in WOW auto-attack hasn't been a big thing for a very, very long time. They've gone mostly to rotations which have you stare at your action bar 24/7 and that have no affect on auto attack; while auto-attacks are just something that's there and enhanced by stats. WOW hasn't been an auto-attack MMO for a very, very long time.

FFXIV is starting self combos too, which I'm guessing will be closer to rotations or maybe Aion's combo system so that's good. But I'm okay if combat isn't as fast paced as WOW, Aion or RIFT's. As long as it has a decent pace and is tactical, people will like it.

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Very much in agreement. Combat should be slower and more tactical. Our enemies do not have 500,000 HP and instead add difficulty by being able to kill you in 1-2 shots if you are standing in the wrong spot. That is to this day one of the best things about the game.

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Originally Posted by Darkvalkyr

The system they are doing for Monk in WoW fits their battle speed and pace where you start with a full bar of focus/mana and start doing attacks, and/or in the case of rage you gain it using skills or a few auto-attack swings.

It will not fit in XIV's pace where the game's mechanic lies in generating TP to do skills.

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Actually, on the contrary, Pugilist almost doesn't use auto attacks. I spend more time using evasion skills with pummel and flurry then using a couple counters and the fight is over. The exception to this is boss fights since auto attack is our highest sustained damage or, *cough* DPS. The point being that high attack rate does work in XI without AA but it is a bit challenging to manage with the interface lag mentioned above. Thankfully that will be gone in 2.0

oh man can you imagine how awesome the combo system will be like in pvp.

Brings back memories of Aion.

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Originally Posted by Andrien

oh man can you imagine how awesome the combo system will be like in pvp.

Brings back memories of Aion.

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The reason I bought a Razer Naga mouse. Assassin stun lock rotations ^^

Wonder how many people are gonna be complaining about spamming 1,1,1,1,1,1,2,1,1,1 over and over again in WoW now...

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Originally Posted by ellohwell

Many hype up Guild Wars 2 and Blade and Soul and TERA precisely because those games dont have autoattack as a backbone to their combat system. so saying people will quit without autoattack is a stretch.

There were multiple ways they could have "revamped" the combat system. And quite frankly adding autoattack wasn't it.

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And there you have one of the reasons GW2 isn't somethign that interessts me, and from hearing other peoples feedback, a lot of other people dislike this style of combat as well and prefer a AA system, cause you know, not everyone likes the same thing.

I'd prefer XIV went their own unique FF style way, and with how we have Limit Break type abilities and a comming combo system I hope fits well into a AA system, if you like the mind numbing 1,1,1,2,1,1,2,1,1,2,1,3,1,1... type rotation combat then you said it urself, theres 3 games listed there to play for thoose who like it that way.

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Originally Posted by Malakhim

Wonder how many people are gonna be complaining about spamming 1,1,1,1,1,1,2,1,1,1 over and over again in WoW now...

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they wont if the move are cool and follow up

Auto-attacking kinda made XIV feel like XII. That could just be me, though.

AA takes care of the basics, striking the enemy with your weapon while you focus on timing your abilities and strategy. It works perfectly for the speed and battle style of XIV

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Originally Posted by Malakhim

Wonder how many people are gonna be complaining about spamming 1,1,1,1,1,1,2,1,1,1 over and over again in WoW now...

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you still spam actions in FFXIV because of lag and lack of action queueing.

Nobody complains about spamming anymore because the got their precious autoattack so they could go afk in combat which was the real reason they wanted it, tbh.

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Originally Posted by Choyi

And there you have one of the reasons GW2 isn't somethign that interessts me, and from hearing other peoples feedback, a lot of other people dislike this style of combat as well and prefer a AA system, cause you know, not everyone likes the same thing.

I'd prefer XIV went their own unique FF style way, and with how we have Limit Break type abilities and a comming combo system I hope fits well into a AA system, if you like the mind numbing 1,1,1,2,1,1,2,1,1,2,1,3,1,1... type rotation combat then you said it urself, theres 3 games listed there to play for thoose who like it that way.

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Blade and Soul isnt mind numbing 11111221212 system.

Cant talk about GW2 or TERA though cause I dont really follow them.

People assume there are two types of combat systems: FFXi and FFXIV.

But there's more possibilities out there.

From a Blizzard Developer on the issue of auto attack:

"The monk not having auto attack was controversial around the office too, we are not even 100% sure the monk will keep it. And removing auto attack for other classes will just feel like a huge change. We do crazy things on new stuff, not on old stuff. There are some downsides too - if a monkey has 5hp left they have to wait to push a button again were as a Rogue would just kill it with its auto attack."

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Originally Posted by Enyyx

+1 for hoping 2.0 gets rid of auto attack again.

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Or at the very least the addition of basic attacks like ARC has for all classes..
Maybe something where people 2 or 3 basic attacks instead of 1 though.

I still think the battle improvements should have been done Prior to adding it, and then I doubt people would have wanted it adding so much anyway.
I still really wish it was never added in the 1st place personally.

I just think something between what we had an what we have would be better.
But meh..

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Originally Posted by ellohwell

so they could go afk in combat which was the real reason they wanted it, tbh.

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...... Uh huh

I loved this! I wanna see WoW removing the AA and making the game even better, while we are stuck to someone's "standards". For someone claiming he wants FFXIV to become the #1 MMO, i think Yoshida didn't plan it right...if you stick with the standards you're fated to have an average result...and no one can be #1 with just average results.

I really hope WoW have it done right...because the concept behind the FFXIV original battle was awesome, just depreciated by the poor server performance and some other minor flaws, like lackluster animations and the crumblesome battle regimen...but nothing that couldn't be fixed and polished over time to become an unique mechanics...

Anyway...i told this over and over and over to dev team in the last months...so now i'll just wait and see WoW getting even better by using what FFXIV discarded...and then saying them "I told so!". ^^

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Originally Posted by Malakhim

Wonder how many people are gonna be complaining about spamming 1,1,1,1,1,1,2,1,1,1 over and over again in WoW now...

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You already do this in WoW as any caster class and most of the melees. There is really not much difference.

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Originally Posted by ellohwell

you still spam actions in FFXIV because of lag and lack of action queueing.

Nobody complains about spamming anymore because the got their precious autoattack so they could go afk in combat which was the real reason they wanted it, tbh.

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People wanted AA because this game's combat is too freaking slow to sit their and spam the same basic attacks over and over. It works in games like WoW because you have a 1 second global cooldown upon pressing a key. If it's an instant spell, you still have to wait 1 second to cast anything else. XIV had huge amount of combat lag before auto-attack and you'd press the key 3-4 times before it would even register as one hit.

Getting rid of auto-attack is only worth doing when you have combat like GW2, Tera, etc. If you are still in the archaic but proven system that WoW is in where you are not actually targeting a specific part of a target, manually aiming, etc, then there is absolutely no reason for not having auto-attack. You aren't mashing "Punch" in WoW like you were in XIV. You mash several different abilities and spells that do way more damage than a basic attack. XIV used to play more like a horrible and laggy fighting game as opposed to an action MMO. It never even resembled an action MMO.

I can't believe there is still people in this game that want Auto- attack gone, its amazing in every way you look at it. This is one area where I cannot see another persons point of view, sorry.

i couldnt stand it to click again and over again to perform an attack each 3-5 secs... and then this *meep* weep* tone. oh no please.

i prefer auto attack and performing "special" attacks in the right situations. there are more actions you can do than just a simple auto attack.. self buffs etc pp.


even Final Fantasy 12 had auto attack... and i thought this battlesystem would have been ausum for FFXIV as well... it would fit perfect for an MMOrpg battle system

So, first it is: Don't make it like WoW, we hate WoW, WoW sucks, what are you doing SE!

Now it is: Hey WoW is removing auto attack, why did SE add it, WoW is cool, WoW is epic, WoW is a pioneer

R I G H T

Perhaps XIV's Auto-Attack could be put on an activation timer?

You have to press your Basic Attack once to initiate AA which starts a Cooldown Timer of say...1 minute?

You could then open with a TP Move on the next Mob before you activate AA again for another minute.

Just a possible compromise anyway.

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Originally Posted by Evenstar

So, first it is: Don't make it like WoW, we hate WoW, WoW sucks, what are you doing SE!

Now it is: Hey WoW is removing auto attack, why did SE add it, WoW is cool, WoW is epic, WoW is a pioneer

R I G H T

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The correct is: "WoW is the main rival". I never liked WoW..still, Blizzard seems to have the guts that is lacking to SE...the will of making something good alone isn't enough...they need the guts to accept the risks and innovate.

Still, i care very little nowadays...i'd rather just have the 2.0 as the "real" FFXIV and, since everything from original FFXIV will be discarded...even servers included, that the original FFXIV project was resumed as a spin-off game. This way it would be able to complete its development without the burden of being "the" FFXIV, being then capable of follow the casual path without regrets.

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Originally Posted by Davorok

Perhaps XIV's Auto-Attack could be put on an activation timer?

You have to press your Basic Attack once to initiate AA which starts a Cooldown Timer of say...1 minute?

You could then open with a TP Move on the next Mob before you activate AA again for another minute.

Just a possible compromise anyway.

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This is what i've been asking, man...since the very start i asked them "Hey...just add an AA button at basic attacks...just like we have AoE button at spells. This way people can toggle it on/off with minor/no problems."...but they never heard. And the result is the one seen today...where we already have a bulky game, except by the battle-related content.

Right now battle is the weak link of this FFXIV chain.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

Funny as a level 30+ish pug in ffxiv i had over 3 bars full of spell Attack,def,buff and i use everyone of them and only use the auto attack when needed which was to build up TP. I still don't understand why people hate the system maybe they could have made it better but w/e :)

i enjoy ffxiv with or without auto attack.

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So, without auto attacking, you would have to manually build TP is what you're saying. Which means unless they added a bunch of cool abilities that build TP, you would just be simulating auto attacking to build that TP, which is what used to happen in beta, which sucked hard.

It was said at Blizzcon that the non auto attack wasn't set in stone and that they are very split about it. There are issues with the non auto attack such as not being able to finish a mob off that has little hp remaining without wasting resources. I got to play the pre-alpha for a bit and it very much reminded me of ff14 button mashing of 111111111. While it wasn't terrible i missed the option of auto attacking just for ease of killing. Maybe they will change it, maybe they will axe it, who knows.

Wtf is wrong with you, first everyone demanded to implemment auto attack and know you want it out of the game just because a "crappy every expansion the same stuff" game is now taking a few steps that way, i personally liked how the game was without AA, but some classes were tough to play just because u needed to spam a few normal attacks (pug,gld, mrd), right now is really good you have your AA as Tp builder and use all ur skills when you feel like it.

and a good thing about AA is that make the play less annoying, the first month you wont care but after that you get tired of having to spam same stuff, i was an archer when we didnt had AA so i didnt know that much, before the patch for AA was really annoying having to control every hit for Tp as GLD and leaving as much stamina for provoke, having to take care of the shield, so in a few words was really frustrating to be like this all the time, now i tried gld and AA lets you do what you are supposed to be doing watching hate and using skills as needed.

Go out and take some fresh air you've been here in the forums without rest for far too long...

Blizzard has MMORPG experience that I'm sure every developer would dream of having. Blizzard has more money, more resources, more... everything.

Plus, they displayed some doubt in the system of no auto attack and if you remember from last year's Blizzcon, less than half of the features they announced made it into the game at all. I don't see them sticking with the no auto attack, but if they do, good luck to them, I'm sure they could make it work just because they are Blizzard, they can make anything work. And if it doesn't, the life of their game doesn't hang in the balance, like FFXIV's did.