DRG should have a special quest called "how to use heavy thrust"

Much like your buddy that post was to the normal person that responded to me.

I was with a SMN in DF in arboretum when it was fresh. Now I'm a good BLM and I play to my fullest every run, because I take pride in it. Anyways. After the first few pulls I started realizing everything was dying super slow. Talking a few minutes for 3 mins. Healer was dpsing. I started watching the SMN, who was in up to date gear. He was throwing down shadow flare, then ruin spamming. Using deathflare when he could. No dots at all. So I politely asked him why he wasn't using any dots, and he said because it's pointless because they die too fast. I reminded him these pulls were taking 3-4 minutes and that his dots were most of his dmg. I got the snarky, "Don't tell me how to play my job." I preceded to kick. Sorry, but you're wasting everyone's time because you're too stubborn to learn.

When it comes to a DRG knowing about how to keep that heavy thrust damage buff on... let's just say I give them some... Heavy Trust.

No really. Because there is no reason not to keep it up all the time.

When I first played FF, I chose to be a DRG. I proceed to learn rotations by hard (like went to plenty websites and advice from my FC) and go to plenty dungeons. Really no excuse for not using HT at all. I felt it helps a lot and always keep up my HT. Blood of the dragon I don't use it in small mobs unless they are really hard to go down. But yeah mostly start of dungeons I use blood of dragon and manage to keep it up throughout. I found out life surge was also useful when I was close to lvl 60.

Guys, I can say I feel your pain cus I went in a dungeon with FC mates. One of them was really a lazy healer. Pity the tank as she kept dying and I myself is close to death. The tank is my FC master. She is a healer herself and tried to tell the healer to use some of the moves. HA. Healer said he was lazy or mostly replied "LEL" (means laugh even louder) or orh ok. That was the worst run I ever encountered. T.T

There's an easy solution to this... Form your own group, and bring 2 DPS with you. Problem solved. You guys whine about the stupidest things.

When you play with random players, you get some that are bad. Deal with it, or make your own groups... You ARE allowed to make your own groups, you get the same reward for finishing.

Not only DRG, all jobs should have this kind of tutorial.

MNK: Maintaining Twin Snakes
MCH: Maintaining Hot Shot
BLM: Maintaning Astral fire/ umbral Ice
WAR: Maintaining Storm path

And the list goes on

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rockint

There's an easy solution to this... Form your own group, and bring 2 DPS with you. Problem solved. You guys whine about the stupidest things.

When you play with random players, you get some that are bad. Deal with it, or make your own groups... You ARE allowed to make your own groups, you get the same reward for finishing.

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Bads can form their own groups too so they don't get kicked. Why is it that they're the victims here and not the rest of us who actually care and try hard?

So, the argument appears to be:

1) I know how to play my class and I expect every one else to play their class to the same level of perfection

2) I am constantly disappointed with the <insert insult here> of players who don't play to my expectations

3) Such players deserve to be kicked because they're wasting my precious, precious time

4) If you don't want to treat this game as a full-time job, just quit already.

That about right?

[As an aside, I play dragoon and HT leads each and every sequence for its 24 second life.]

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

So, the argument appears to be:

1) I know how to play my class and I expect every one else to play their class to the same level of perfection

2) I am constantly disappointed with the <insert insult here> of players who don't play to my expectations

3) Such players deserve to be kicked because they're wasting my precious, precious time

4) If you don't want to treat this game as a full-time job, just quit already.

That about right?

[As an aside, I play dragoon and HT leads each and every sequence for its 24 second life.]

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If that's what you got out of this whole thread, you haven't paid attention.

So, to answer that question, no, that's far from right.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Inuk9

Not only DRG, all jobs should have this kind of tutorial.

MNK: Maintaining Twin Snakes
MCH: Maintaining Hot Shot
BLM: Maintaning Astral fire/ umbral Ice
WAR: Maintaining Storm path

And the list goes on

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Maim* for WAR - Storm's Path shouldn't be always active, and Storm's Eye is arguably a more advanced technique that you can't realistically expect every Warrior to use. It's a DPS skill on a Tank Job. It's okay if every Maim combo is Storm's Path - as long as Maim is being used. Because we're not not talking about ~optimal rotations~ in this thread, but rather ~basic Job mechanics.~

But yeah, it's not even about using the skills optimally, it's about realizing they're useful and, like, using them, now and then. If you forget and it falls off for a bit while leveling, it's not the end of the world, but you should eventually realize that and use the skill again, you know? It's not like I'm saying "if you're not doing the exact optimal rotation gtfo" - I'm just saying "please at least understand and utilize the basic mechanics of your Job"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Inuk9

Not only DRG, all jobs should have this kind of tutorial.

MNK: Maintaining Twin Snakes
MCH: Maintaining Hot Shot
BLM: Maintaning Astral fire/ umbral Ice
WAR: Maintaining Storm path

And the list goes on

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They could add to the hall of the beginner and provide new challenges when you learn crucial skills

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Warghoul570

People like you are what's wrong with this game. Stuck up elitist that think they can force people to do things their way. I swear you snobs kick people for the stupidest most trivial crap

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No idiots like you, are what is wrong with any game. Learn to play. Don't be bad, you won't get kicked. Wanna play bad, get in a bad guild, with your bad friends, and run dungeons with them. See how well it goes when everyone in the party is playing their job/class so terribly. Now at a lower level it probably wont matter too much. But at cap, you will be struggling to finish them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tanro

No idiots like you, are what is wrong with any game. Learn to play. Don't be bad, you won't get kicked. Wanna play bad, get in a bad guild, with your bad friends, and run dungeons with them. See how well it goes when everyone in the party is playing their job/class so terribly. Now at a lower level it probably wont matter too much. But at cap, you will be struggling to finish them.

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Sad truth is, leveling dungeons are harder than capped ones. But yeah, you got it right, if someone wants to be bad, form your own PF and be as bad as you want to be.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

So, the argument appears to be:

1) I know how to play my class and I expect every one else to play their class to the same level of perfection

2) I am constantly disappointed with the <insert insult here> of players who don't play to my expectations

3) Such players deserve to be kicked because they're wasting my precious, precious time

4) If you don't want to treat this game as a full-time job, just quit already.

That about right?

[As an aside, I play dragoon and HT leads each and every sequence for its 24 second life.]

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Umm.......What?

That is not at all what the argument is. You don't read well, or your comprehension is too low. Or maybe you just perceive things in whatever way you'd like to, so you can troll and "attempt" to make a point, failing miserably. No one ever said anything about perfection, so you're just adding fluff to your point because you think you're smart, or maybe just because you believe so highly in your point, that you fail to see the actual problem.

Fact of the matter is, you can craft, gather, do Fates, glamour, housing, earn gil, play mini games in the Gold Saucer, choco racing, triple triad, LoV, and many other things that are great for solo play. But when you are playing an MMO, guess what? You have to play with other ppl. Our time is not in any way more precious than anyone else's, but if a person is playing their job incorrectly, there's a very good chance they are uncomfortable or inexperienced at the job. But if they refuse to take any criticism or advice and runs their mouth with snark comments about "Don't tell me how to play my job," or just straight up ignore you, then yes, that person deserves to be kicked. Plain and Simple.

I don't care if a dungeon run takes 20 minutes or an hour honestly. If I go into a dungeon as a dps for instance, and tank says, "I'm new." I check their gear and see how they're fairing. If after the first couple of pulls things aren't going well, I'll mention, "You should pull with shield lob, and then flash a few times before you start your combo, and then cycle your combos through the mobs because you're losing hate." Alot of times, I get a "thanks for the advice" and as we press on the dungeon, things may be slow and a little rocky, but the person is willing to learn and trying to get better. This is exactly how it should be.

But If I say the same thing, and the person is snarky, defensive, refusing to listen, poor attitude, then that person is now wasting the rest of the party's time. And I will kick you. No ifs, ands or buts. If a person can't take advice and only wants to play their way, at their speed, at their skill level, then they are in the wrong genre of gaming. When working in a random team, everyone needs to adapt. Those that refuse to change are the ones too stubborn to realize that we're trying to help. I will help anyone that asks for any advice. In fact I spent weeks writing a guide to help any and all Black Mages, and I make myself available to help anyone that needs it.

By your comments, you are the exact type of person this thread is talking about. Can't take advice, can't take criticism, believes everyone that offers a helping hand is an elitist, and decides they're going to continue to do what they want out of spite. Sorry to say it, but you are the problem.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tanathya

Bads can form their own groups too so they don't get kicked. Why is it that they're the victims here and not the rest of us who actually care and try hard?

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They're not the victims, but they're also not the ones on here making demands on how other people play in their group. No matter if you're good or bad, if have a specific expectation out of who you're playing with, then form the group yourself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rockint

They're not the victims, but they're also not the ones on here making demands on how other people play in their group. No matter if you're good or bad, if have a specific expectation out of who you're playing with, then form the group yourself.

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Because they don't care. If they find someone bad they can't complain or just don't care because they're equally as bad, or worse, and if they find someone who tries they're obviously not gonna complain either. So no, they should be the ones forming groups if they want to play however they feel like even if that goes against the party's interest.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rockint

They're not the victims, but they're also not the ones on here making demands on how other people play in their group. No matter if you're good or bad, if have a specific expectation out of who you're playing with, then form the group yourself.

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Only one group in this conext is being detrimental to the party, though. There's the bare expectation of knowing your basic job mechanics that should at least be met in party play, otherwise you're honestly just a liability for that party slot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

Only one group in this conext is being detrimental to the party, though. There's the bare expectation of knowing your basic job mechanics that should at least be met in party play, otherwise you're honestly just a liability for that party slot.

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What is beyond me are these people who defend bad play, or excuse it at the very least. No one, absolutely no one here is being an elitist or making insane demands. Is expecting a lv30+ player to know the basics that demanding? Let alone a lv50+ one. We are all complaining about people not trying.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rockint

They're not the victims, but they're also not the ones on here making demands on how other people play in their group. No matter if you're good or bad, if have a specific expectation out of who you're playing with, then form the group yourself.

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So you're absolutely fine if I run a dungeon with you as a full dps WHM, or perhaps as a PLD but RPing an old, tired guy, and using only auto attacks as the result?

When you're joining group content, it should be expected of you to at least TRY do the job you queued as, otherwise you have no place being there. If you want to "play in your own way" that seriously cripples your effectiveness, you're free to do so, but do it in solo content and don't drag others down in your experiments.

There was actually one time back in the deadzone of 2.5 where a few friends and I decided to do T13 in DF for fun. We do a few pulls and the pushes at the end of phase 1 are a full 20-30s short of where they should be. People (myself included) start noticing that this DRG in the party doing less dps than the tanks (in full i130 gear). Being a DRG main, I checked out the skill rotation he was doing and asked him point blank if he even knew how to play the Job.

He wasn't using Heavy Thrust or Phlebotomize - he wasn't even completing combos properly. His response was that he didn't really have the rotation down yet - he was still learning the job.

We vote kicked him from the group, and got a replacement.


Granted, this isn't a dungeon, but the fact remains no less valid in any other situation. Endgame content is not the time to learn how to play your Job. You should not be playing a Job in any content at 60 without knowing the basics, at least. If you seriously think that's too much to ask, then just kindly stay out of my parties, because I'm not going to carry someone through content for free, when they're too lazy to sit down for five minutes and either figure out the basics or ask someone who mains the Job what to do.

So, no. I don't think it's too much to ask for a level 50+ Dragoon to know to use Heavy Thrust in any dungeon he's in.
I don't think it's too much to expect a BLM/THM to be casting Fire II on 3 or more enemies - or, you know, casting fire spells at all.
It's not too much to wish that every DRK sync'd higher than 30 will be using Darkside during every pull.

And I find it ridiculous that people are arguing that we're elitist for saying so.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tanathya

Check their crossclasses. You'll be surprised at how many of them don't have pugilist unlocked, let alone leveled.

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I'm in this boat, only just leveling pugilist for IR now and I'm 50 DRG. Should bump MRD a bit more too tbh... However always trying to see what I can be doing better for my rotation to maximize, but I use Heavy Thrust and I see NO reason not to use it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rockint

They're not the victims, but they're also not the ones on here making demands on how other people play in their group. No matter if you're good or bad, if have a specific expectation out of who you're playing with, then form the group yourself.

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To an extent, these "victims" ARE actually trying to dictate how others play, though. Maybe not how they play their job's directly, but in group content every player is able to affect other players' experiences. Choosing to be a detriment to your group with an "I play how I want" attitude is equally selfish. And those are the players that play victim and have no regard for the way that they affect the rest of the group's ability to enjoy the game.

If you're going to knowingly be a burden to a group in DF, then do everyone a favor and make a PF group where you can all drag each other down.

And again, because people seem to be missing this important point throughout the thread, this isn't in reference to someone who just needs some help or has low DPS, etc. This is about people who don't bother to perform basic, core functions of their jobs and are unwilling to grow or accept feedback.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Darkstride

Maybe not how they play their job's directly, but in group content every player is able to affect other players' experiences. Choosing to be a detriment to your group with an "I play how I want" attitude is equally selfish.

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No, they're not. You KNOW that a random queue is going to group you with random people. You have the ability to only play with the best people you can find. It's how I'm always a competent tank, with a healer that NEVER lets me die, and 1-2 dps who can get stuff killed fast... When I queue alone, though, I accept that there's going to be bad players, and I just deal with it like a grown-up.

You can't expect them to play good just like they can't expect you to play bad. Either form a group, or just accept that not everyone is good, and you're going to get stuck with them in the random queue. If that's a problem, there's TONS of single player RPGs out there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rockint

You can't expect them to play good just like they can't expect you to play bad. Either form a group, or just accept that not everyone is good, and you're going to get stuck with them in the random queue. If that's a problem, there's TONS of single player RPGs out there.

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Again with the good or bad conundrum? You don't understand a thing, do you? Now, that's rethorical.

People aren't understanding what we're saying. Better to just leave it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MahoSenshi

Actually, its easier to forget NIN's "kiss" / MNK's "fists of x" or even tank stances, than HT.
Its not in their rotation, so people often forget to re-activate it after job switch etc.
How anyone can forget HT, when your entire rotation for quite some levels consists of HT-ID-ID-ID, beats me.

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/gearset change 2
/wait 1
/ac "Fists of Fire"

i run into thise and similar things ALL THE TIME.
DRGs not using heavy thrust OR blood of the dragon EVER.
BLMs only using bliz3 like an RMT spiritbonder.
SCHs just spaming physic not even giving fairy chance to heal.
NINs NEVER using mudras except for huton.

My Point
ALL of these things i find extremely annoying turning what should be a 20minute duty roulette into hour long hassles that i dont even have time for n forced to leave because of RL before can finish the dungeon

I think some people take this game way, way too seriously. lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

I think some people take this game way, way too seriously. lol

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You're in my server. If I see you in any of the farming parties I'm in, I'll let them know what you feel about us who want to spend our time doing things. Also, considering your crossclasses for your only job at 60, DRG, alongside your comment right there, I'm gonna assume you're one of those people who "pay their sub, play however they please".

Thanks for proving my point. :D
Have a nice day~

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

Thanks for proving my point. :D
Have a nice day~

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Actually, you proved mine and many others' point in this thread.

Have a nice day as well.

All I'm say is, if you're getting so frustrated that you would rather kick someone than talk to them, you should take a break.

Call me naive, but I believe in talking to people. But I can totally see why some would become... agitated after a while.

But, as I (kind of) said before, this is a game. A hobby I hold dear, sure, but I won't let it dictate my life nor my life.

I'm personally still pretty new to this game (main lv 49 DRG), and I have no idea why someone wouldn't use HT as a DRG... I always thought anything to boost your damage up as a DPS was a good thing. Btw, I had no idea getting cross-skills from pugilist was good for DRG, so thanks for the info, I'll get to level it as soon as I can log into the game.

To clarify I totally agree with the OP. I don't see a reason not to keep HT up and if the person didn't want to do it after being asked to in a basically corteous way, then I think it is perfectly reasonable to vote kick them. I just don't like it when people directly insult you or get bitchy for playing the game wrong, instead of first just telling you what you're doing wrong so that you can correct it. I will ALWAYS do exactly what the more experienced players tell me to in a dungeon, because I assume they know better than me, but it can be pretty frustrating when they say it in a directly offensive way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

All I'm say is, if you're getting so frustrated that you would rather kick someone than talk to them, you should take a break.

Call me naive, but I believe in talking to people. But I can totally see why some would become... agitated after a while.

But, as I (kind of) said before, this is a game. A hobby I hold dear, sure, but I won't let it dictate my life nor my life.

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And you missed the point completely.

Edit: Just got out of a Roulette Main Scenario, The Praetorium. The NIN wasn't using kiss of the viper/wasp. I let them know, they don't answer, they don't use it ever. I say nothing else. Apparently I'd rather not talk and kick instead. So yeah, you missed the point completely.

Should have known better than to post in these snake pits. lol
How people can become so bitter over a video game is beyond me. Oh, well.
Can only hope for you guys you find a way to better deal with whatever is annoying you (and I'm serious).

The moment this game is giving me more bad than good things I'm out.
Really nice and simple concept.

Alright, have a nice day ya'll. :)

"Why can't people bother to spend few minutes to learn the basics of their job works and not get hostile when someone points out you should use X?"
"Another elitist calling people out who doesn't adhere to their unbelievably high standards."
"I just wish people stopped being lazy and started pressing more than two buttons in dungeons."
"Why are you kicking people who aren't doing savage level DPS?"
"I just want people to do more than i100 levels of DPS with i210+ gear, know at least the basics of their job, and stop being lazy and actually play the game -- preferably with both hands."
"You don't pay my sub." "Stop oppressing me." "I play for fun." "Arguments and comments against imaginary points that no one raised and have nothing to do with this thread."

Did I get this right?

I wonder if the "I play however I wan't, because I play for fun" crowd has ever thought about that it's not very fun to play with them in a team game?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

Should have known better than to post in these snake pits. lol
How people can become so bitter over a video game is beyond me. Oh, well.
Can only hope for you guys you find a way to better deal with whatever is annoying you (and I'm serious).

The moment this game is giving me more bad than good things I'm out.
Really nice and simple concept.

Alright, have a nice day ya'll. :)

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So, not agreeing with you is enough reason to call us snakes? Keep proving everyone's point.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

All I'm say is, if you're getting so frustrated that you would rather kick someone than talk to them, you should take a break.

Call me naive, but I believe in talking to people. But I can totally see why some would become... agitated after a while.

But, as I (kind of) said before, this is a game. A hobby I hold dear, sure, but I won't let it dictate my life nor my life.

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Typically the talking happens before the kicking, especially in the context of the thread if you were actually keeping up with it.

I sometimes forget to activate it. And hate how its not a weaponskill, so I can't use it to refresh HT in the middle of a full thrust combo without breaking the combo :/

Problems and arguments like these are the offspring of the random matching system. Since most people you will most likely never meet again, they don't give a sh$t. They wanna get their exp/loot and good riddance. Now if duty matches were server based "bad players" would have gotten weeded out and blacklisted a long time ago, and behaviors like these would not exist. People would make "sure" they bring their top notch performances every time or risk getting shamed.

The solution? Suck it up, things won't change, it's not worth losing your marbles every time you get a sucky player, either abandon duty or move on.