Horrible drop rate for primal falcons

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Originally Posted by CassandraJean

I second this. I know most people say "it's RNG get over it" but still, it is disheartening when you farm something for days without so much as seeing a whistle, when friends come along and say "yeah we saw six drop in one day!".

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Yeah, and usually the ones saying "it's RNG, get over it," are the ones who got theirs after 10 runs. I'm pretty sure if they were up over 100+ runs, they sure wouldn't be telling others to get over it.

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

Yeah, and usually the ones saying "it's RNG, get over it," are the ones who got theirs after 10 runs. I'm pretty sure if they were up over 100+ runs, they sure wouldn't be telling others to get over it.

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So basically this is a complaint thread over not being able to deal with the fact that you are unlucky with RNG?

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Originally Posted by Zari

So basically this is a complaint thread over not being able to deal with the fact that you are unlucky with RNG?

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Yes, there should always be failsafes implemented for bad cases of RNG. I don't know why that concept is so hard to grasp for MMORPG developers.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

Yes, there should always be failsafes implemented for bad cases of RNG. I don't know why that concept is so hard to grasp for MMORPG developers.

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using Expanse Totems - even if it was a stack of 99 for the bird, would also be in keeping with the original purpose of the Totems. Either you got lucky with RNG and got your weapon quickly, or, you farmed the fight and earned enough totems to get the weapon you wanted.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

Yes, there should always be failsafes implemented for bad cases of RNG. I don't know why that concept is so hard to grasp for MMORPG developers.

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Oh well a failsafe would be fine. Something like the tokens for the EX primal weapons would be fine. I was more referring to the complaint of the RNG numbers themselves

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Originally Posted by CassandraJean

using Expanse Totems - even if it was a stack of 99 for the bird, would also be in keeping with the original purpose of the Totems. Either you got lucky with RNG and got your weapon quickly, or, you farmed the fight and earned enough totems to get the weapon you wanted.

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They're slowing improving on that regard, with the new Anima weapons and primal weapons so maybe they'll implement for the pigeons.

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Originally Posted by Zari

I was more referring to the complaint of the RNG numbers themselves

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Yeah, that's exactly what I would want. 99 tokens seems reasonable to me, there's no harm in suggesting it either imho. I think s/he was just pointing out the people who go "It's RNG, deal with it" are often people who got it quickly, which from my own experience with people I've played with, is true. Maybe they're just tired of my endless complaining though.

I just see 1 person have Thordan falcons wandering around at Idyllshire.

I did 105 clears total to get my white lanner, kept my totem things to see how many I did exactly. I saw 3 whistles in around the first 40 runs. After the initial 3 whistles, I didn't see it drop again until the one I finally got on the 105th clear, over 50 clears to see 1 whistle... Some see it 7 times in like 20 runs. RNJesus is just not there for everyone xD

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Originally Posted by Ayuhra

My super duper unpopular opinion that will win me no friends on the forums is to keep the drop rate as is and nerf freaking Final Liberation on Ravana. Guilds mostly have him on farm anyway.

90% of the time it's smooth sailing and then the party wipes on Final and we use the Healer Limit Break. It is incredibly annoying.

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If you want to cheese it, why not just tank LB it? You don't even need to pass the preys!
Though if you don't have him dead by the time he does it, you may wanna 'git gud' so to speak.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

If you want to cheese it, why not just tank LB it? You don't even need to pass the preys!
Though if you don't have him dead by the time he does it, you may wanna 'git gud' so to speak.

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git gud requires a measure of coordination Duty Finder often lacks.

I just completed my 118th run in Bismarck..... Only seen the whistle drop 5 times total... Never rolled higher than a 53..

I don't want it to be easy, but.. my god, I think I want to hurt myself...

It supposes to be a rare drop and make people farm these old content so many times. Working as intended.

Two days, 75 clears on Bismarck, seen 4 whistles. I would be happy with a 99 token turn in system.

I'd love a 99 token trade in. I know this low drop rate was the situation for ponies back then and people had to just bite the bullet until the drop rates were raised much later. But it's not just a drop rate, it's also having to roll for it on top of that.

Personally, I think I've been lucky with the drop rate. I've done 90-someodd runs of rav and 90-someodd of bis. I've seen over 10 birds in that time and ALL my rolls have been horrible except for 2 which were of course beaten. Realistically, don't get excited about any roll unless you've rolled 90 or above.

On 2 occassions, fc members joined me in some farm groups. 1 of them won the bis bird on the 4th try, the other won the rav bird on their FIRST. Seeing that happen, after having done nearly 100 runs each of both primals made me want to hurt myself.

Ehh, I'll nab them all at the end of the 3.0 series when the drop rates are better.

30x Thordan, 20x Ravana 10x Bismarck. Didn't see a single drop

I'll rather not farm them and wait for drop buff. I mean i have time but not that much time...

Sad to say but this is SE's answer to keeping subs. Personally I have an issue with developers using rng as a means of prolonging content and it's especially troublesome when its SE's rng. I've stopped farming for the time being as my current record is 57 BisEX with 3 drops and I haven't rolled above 30. I'm not even gonna bother with the other primals if my roll's are any indication. Idk why they couldn't have just made it a 200 token turn in. At least then it would still be a long term tangible goal instead of just hoping to get one and if you get the drop before then well congratulations.

They do this to encourage people to go back and run said content but when a player is disheartened by bad luck they eventually stop running it entirely or get bored and move on to something else like other games.

Someone here missed my post last week. :p

It took me 142 runs to even see my first lanner (ravana one). Glad I got it first time.

To people suggesting stacks of totems, I'd see it work with 3-4 full stacks, but no less. 300-400 runs total is around the estimate chance to get it anyway (2% drop + 1/8 chance to beat the other guys). 99 totems are just too easy to get (6ish hours of primal farming for ravana and bismarck)

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

Yeah, and usually the ones saying "it's RNG, get over it," are the ones who got theirs after 10 runs. I'm pretty sure if they were up over 100+ runs, they sure wouldn't be telling others to get over it.

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Are my 142 runs of nothingness enough to be able to say "it's RNG, get over it" ?

At least the PFs to beat ravana and bismarck, and even the DF, are decent. That was not the case back in ponies days, when 70% of the "farm" parties couldn't handle even garuda Ex, let alone pass Titan Ex

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Originally Posted by Stormfur

Am I the only one who wishes you could turn those hive/expanse tokens in for a falcon instead of hoping that RNG is on your side?

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Why is this not a thing? I have thrown away stacks upon stacks on diamond dust. Why couldn't I have exchanged for a diamond tear or whistle? Or even the unidentifiable objects?

I wish I could even find a good farm party to begin with. Lol. Most groups I've gone with can't even clear Bismarck Ex the first run.

However, I'm at 44 and 2 drops. Both rolled under 35.

Last one a DRG who died for 5 clears in a row got it. Sometimes I wish underperformance wrecked your RNG as much as on spot performance would up it. If technology could do such a thing.

Drop rate seems fines to me, its about the same, maybe even a smig better than when ponies where 1st a thing so yeah. Do like the idea of adding them to token even if its a large amount like x99, but even so dont see that a thing till the rest of the primal esque fights are ready. Only complaint here I have is thordan's drop rate, mainly because its kind of a long fight a bit tedious to farm unlike the rest. >.<

Oh god, you want to try getting a decent group for the Thordan mount. I reaaaaally want that one, but no such luck.

People on my server aren't even doing Thordan, only Ravana, Bis and Seph. I haven't seen the bird at all (except from someone on reddit who posted a pic).

Got ravana at 10 try, Bismark at 65ish

There are no Thordans on our server either, and been doing Sephi EX with my set and only dropped once, and I'm afraid of the Partyfinder "farmings", so I'm gonna wait a bit until everyone gears up and becomes easier, maybe 2 more weeks should do the trick!

The droprate is better than the first ponies, so it's a good drop rate for me!

I did Bismarck through DF got the bird on my 10th run. But I will admit some rates are quite bad...like Ravana's.

So far I've seen 2 ravana birds and two sepiroth birds. That happened in about 30 ravana kills, 15 thordan kills and 18 sepiroth kills.

I saw three Thordan birds in Idyllshire last night. I don't know how those people got functional Thordan groups. I've tried to run Thordan EX lately and it's been a series of disasters.

1 Biz out of 9 attempts so far, haven't bothered w/ any others yet. I assumed the drop rate be less then 5% and agree that if 99 tokens could be traded it would be a nice compromise.

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Originally Posted by PandaPause

1 Biz out of 9 attempts so far, haven't bothered w/ any others yet. I assumed the drop rate be less then 5% and agree that if 99 tokens could be traded it would be a nice compromise.

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I'd be down for 100 tokens as well, but then you'll run into opposition from those who feel that's too easy and want to keep the mount rare.

This game is so damn casual in every other aspect, IMO there is no reason to not allow some sort of a token system to obtain the bird.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Are my 142 runs of nothingness enough to be able to say "it's RNG, get over it" ?

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Well, since you were fortunate enough to actually win the roll, and thus placated, I would be inclined to say "no."

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Originally Posted by Ayuhra

git gud requires a measure of coordination Duty Finder often lacks.

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Why don't you just PF it ?
When i was farming my Ravana mount i've been hosting my own PF for 3 days straight as WHM ( 1 Tank, 1 heal, 6 DPS ) and unless someone screw up or has bad DPS, Ravana dies before he finishes casting Swift liberation.
I don't even know why you prefer to go through the DF nonsense.

Im now Farming Bismarck with the standard 1heal 2 Tank 5 DPS and he generally dies the second time we go on his back. ( Can some times be on the first time if the DPS is very good ). People still screw up in the water phase and get hit by the debuff or fall off during wind phase, even to this day, so there is no absolute way i would ever DF it.

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

I was just curious if everyone was having as bad luck as I am with the new bird whistles. Back in the day, you could only estimate the drop rates, as tokens/fragments did not exist.

However, now that we have primal tokens dropping with every win, we have a very real way to calculate how many you have done.

Personally, since the patch, I have done 33 Bismarck EX and 70 Ravana EX and seen 2 whistles (both from Bismarck). IMO, it's pretty ridiculous to have beat these fights 103 times to see 2 whistles.

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Did you really expect any different? How naive. They want you to keep mindlessly grinding the same content over and over and over again, just like they've been doing since 2.0.

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Originally Posted by Cidel

Well, since you were fortunate enough to actually win the roll, and thus placated, I would be inclined to say "no."

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LOL. ^This so much. The only ones telling us to stop "whining" are the ones that have the bird.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

I'd be down for 100 tokens as well, but then you'll run into opposition from those who feel that's too easy and want to keep the mount rare.

This game is so damn casual in every other aspect, IMO there is no reason to not allow some sort of a token system to obtain the bird.

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It's likely because it'd be an easily predictable system that pretty much removes all sense of that rarity. I mean, think about it. If you knew a token system was in place for rare items like the mount, why wouldn't you have run these raids even more before? It's safe to assume that, going forward, mounts will be added to each primal at some point. While 100 of a given primal is a lot, it's still a quantifiable goal to reach that, realistically, anyone that cleared them can do the prep work for over the months before the mounts are even released.

I honestly think people just need to be patient, because it's almost a guarantee that the drop rate will be nerfed to similar rates as current ARR primals. Let some degree of rarity, even if temporary, exist in the game.

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Originally Posted by Tanathya

Did you really expect any different? How naive. They want you to keep mindlessly grinding the same content over and over and over again, just like they've been doing since 2.0.

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I guess I did. Much in the same way that I am under the impression that I can create a thread once in a while without getting condescending responses. But, I guess I'm asking way too much on all accounts.

Thanks for your lovely contribution to the thread.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

It's likely because it'd be an easily predictable system that pretty much removes all sense of that rarity. I mean, think about it. If you knew a token system was in place for rare items like the mount, why wouldn't you have run these raids even more before? It's safe to assume that, going forward, mounts will be added to each primal at some point. While 100 of a given primal is a lot, it's still a quantifiable goal to reach that, realistically, anyone that cleared them can do the prep work for over the months before the mounts are even released.

I honestly think people just need to be patient, because it's almost a guarantee that the drop rate will be nerfed to similar rates as current ARR primals. Let some degree of rarity, even if temporary, exist in the game.

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Then, all SE has to do is not start the point tally until after the mounts are added.

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Originally Posted by Unittj

LOL. ^This so much. The only ones telling us to stop "whining" are the ones that have the bird.

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6 hours a day for a week farming. Not saying I deserved it, but I just was soo happy to get it I went for 40 more kills with my team to help them with 1 less guy to worry about for rolls. To no avail, unfortunately

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Originally Posted by Chasely

Then, all SE has to do is not start the point tally until after the mounts are added.

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That would mean they have to create a new currency just for something like the mounts... it's kind of pointless. Remember that the main reason for the tokens now is for the guarantee of progression-related gear (of its time). Vanity, generally, doesn't need such types of guarantees in the face of RNG. An achievement reward might be workable instead, though.

Also, while it wasn't said on your half for this (I just want to clarify something I didn't), consider taking it a step further. Why are people okay with the max of 100? It's because it's an easily reachable goal. This is counterproductive to the original point of setting a low RNG rate, which realistically, IS NOT an easily reachable goal. The guaranteed give must be on-par (or worse) to be within an equal standing of the intent. That number should be not one that nearly everyone would be "okay" with, but rather a number that no one ever wants to reach or can't even see themselves hitting. Let's say... 999 clears/tokens. I'd venture that practically no one can even fathom hitting that number for a single primal fight, but likewise, not many would want deal with the unpredictable RNG and low drop rate.

Again, it's counterproductive to the intent if one is "okay" compared to the drastically more severe original source. It'd be like if in ARR, you could bypass every stage of relic and go straight for the end by simply doing 200 FATEs or dungeons. You don't undermine one source of grind by adding something much easier if the intent is to not have everyone realistically obtain something in a short span of time.

It's not difficult right now, though. Some people are getting that mount on their first attempt. requiring 100 tokens would man you'd have to do the event 100 times. that means everyone is doing the event 100 times for the mount, as opposed to someone doing the event 1 time for the mount and another person doing it 199.

Also, perhaps tokens can be used to get the wapons or armors as well? A weapon drops every single time, but it's not necessarily the one you want. So for 25 tokens you can buy any of the weapons for that primal. Then, people who craft can use the tokens for primal crafts, people who do vanity can use the tokens for vanity pieces. This would also extend the content's lifespan.

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Originally Posted by Chasely

It's not difficult right now, though. Some people are getting that mount on their first attempt. requiring 100 tokens would man you'd have to do the event 100 times. that means everyone is doing the event 100 times for the mount, as opposed to someone doing the event 1 time for the mount and another person doing it 199.

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In regards to RNG though, a 1% or so drop rate isn't exactly something you'd ever expect, unless you're completely new to how RNG works. You could be on your 10,000th attempt and you'd still be faced against that 1% drop rate, just as you were every attempt before. Probability is only a potential, not a guarantee, and that is where people are fearful of RNG. While one person lucks out on that 1/1 attempts, which includes not just the drop but winning the roll (a double win against lady luck), that means there are countless others who are not so lucky.

When facing that reality, 100 clears for a guarantee? That's the same degree of difficulty (time) as going from lv1 to 10. Not everyone is going to make it there, but practically everyone can realistically do it. As I said in that previous post, it's about the intent. You don't put something with such a low chance to drop there so that everyone can get it in a short period of time. Remember too that you have to look at it as more than just one person when you're dealing with quantified requirements to get something. Imagine a static doing this. 8 people... that's 8 mounts for one static to be introduced simultaneously on just one server. Now throw in all the solo queues, PF groups, and other statics, then that 8 goes up WAY more relatively in the same span of time. People are apparently already in the hundreds for their clears, and we're not very far in for 3.2.

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Also, perhaps tokens can be used to get the wapons or armors as well? A weapon drops every single time, but it's not necessarily the one you want. So for 25 tokens you can buy any of the weapons for that primal. Then, people who craft can use the tokens for primal crafts, people who do vanity can use the tokens for vanity pieces. This would also extend the content's lifespan.

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What I meant by the tokens and weapons mention is that they were introduced right off the bat in HW for an intended progression related purpose, while the mounts were added later. While it does seem like from here on, due to Sephirot mount, they'll add in the mounts right away, it still stands that they don't want a lot of people to get it in even the most remote sense of "soon". I'm not saying having the guaranteed approach is bad, but I am saying it has to be in relation to the intentional rarity of it. As I stated, 100 is nothing in the face of the reality of the overall populous' attempts and how many have it now.