add an in game parser please!!!

Thank you for posting that link.

Frankly I don't like how SSS does either: it really tells me nothing about my class except that "You can kill "insert name here". I could kill the "Thordan dummy" with my lowest dps AND my highest dps class. Time was the same. So it means my dps is good? How? It tells me nothing about it and I really found it useless because it only says that I got enough to kill a boss, yeah, but on the best case scenario with no mechanics and my cd done all at once on a burst.

On the other hand, that link is very useful: it might not be accurate, but it definitely helped me to have a rough estimate of my own dps so kudos on whoever made it.

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Originally Posted by Voltyblast

Frankly I don't like how SSS does either: it really tells me nothing about my class except that "You can kill "insert name here". I could kill the "Thordan dummy" with my lowest dps AND my highest dps class. Time was the same. So it means my dps is good? How? It tells me nothing about it and I really found it useless because it only says that I got enough to kill a boss, yeah, but on the best case scenario with no mechanics and my cd done all at once on a burst.

On the other hand, that link is very useful: it might not be accurate, but it definitely helped me to have a rough estimate of my own dps so kudos on whoever made it.

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The dummy's health is actually adjusted to make up for the lack of mechanics, and then a little bit of extra. If you can take down the dummy easily enough, you should definitely have enough DPS for the encounter if you don't mess up the mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

The dummy's health is actually adjusted to make up for the lack of mechanics, and then a little bit of extra. If you can take down the dummy easily enough, you should definitely have enough DPS for the encounter if you don't mess up the mechanics.

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That's why a parser is better: it tells you right away if you're doing well with mechanics and gives you a better estimate depending on the situation: in this case Thordan's mechanics. That link isn't 100% reliable, I give you that, but it's better than no information and allows me to have a better grasp at my own damage in the best case scenario (aka, no deaths).

However, the dummy itself is useless because of zero amount of feedback given (when you kill it, it just destroys itself and that's it) and because it only has one situation: being idle. And as far as I know, bosses aren't idle when an encounter is going on. If it gave me some feedback, even a rank from S to D, it would've some help too but it's not the case.

And guess what? No, I'm not good for doing Thordan. Because my dps isn't enough for that: the boss is based more mechanics than raw dps, making SSS useless and, worst of all, totally unreliable.

I haven't tried sephirot but again, the dummy won't tell me much either.

I admit the "WoW crowd" ruined parsers and Gear Level checks for me that everyone could do on other people. I was constantly berated by my low dps and low gear. Why? I would enter a dungeon, because you know, that dungeon dropped upgrades for me. Meanwhile everyone else in it was seriously over geared and only in it for dailies. So basically I learned I am not allowed to run a dungeon that appears in any daily that a high level can run, until I myself seriously out-geared the dungeon and don't need any drops from it. Huh?

Like the first time I entered Fractal, ilvl 145 required (I was closer to 150, but still). Meanwhile quite a lot of people are synced down to 210, and I am wondering how I am going to keep up with tanking with a 60 ilvl difference. I can't imagine going in 145 or 150 or so as a dps, and the 210 synced people berating me for my lower dps.

But I also understand the flip side, those that would use it for self-improvement and not run around grieving people with numbers.

Edit:

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

Link to how to self parse using SSS
Stone, Sky, Sea DPS Calculator

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I selected PLD, Basic, and it said:

The dummy has 0 HP

And I still couldn't beat it yet. I really suck at this game.

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Originally Posted by Mykll

I admit the "WoW crowd" ruined parsers and Gear Level checks for me that everyone could do on other people. I was constantly berated by my low dps and low gear. Why? I would enter a dungeon, because you know, that dungeon dropped upgrades for me. Meanwhile everyone else in it was seriously over geared and only in it for dailies. So basically I learned I am not allowed to run a dungeon that appears in any daily that a high level can run, until I myself seriously out-geared the dungeon and don't need any drops from it. Huh?

But I also understand the flip side, those that would use it for self-improvement and not run around grieving people with numbers.

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I've run into more jerks in this game than in my 6 years of WoW.

Jerks are jerks whether they're given tools or not. You're more likely to see people who fall into the second part of your post. Think of the total number instances you've run; at least 1 person was very likely parsing in all of them.

Why cant we have an individual parser? It does not have to show the whole party. I would like my own DPS to show at the least.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

PS was NOT hard. People gotta stop with that crap. Idiots were just unable to grasp the concept of killing adds (something you learn as early as lv15, mind you).

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Thank you for saying this. This dungeon was not particularly hard as long as people played the mechanics. In this case, that meant kill the damn adds (Symond and his hounds). Sad that so many were incapable of doing something so simple.

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I swear, if their stance had been in 2.X like the one they displayed during 3.0-3.1, the generic DF player wouldn't be that bad

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I wouldn't go that far. One of the players I know who completely screwed up PS for several parties likes to think of them self as a skilled end-game player and raider. Frankly if their ability to understand and play game mechanics is still as it was in PS, I pity the groups they party with for Alex Savage.

As for this thread, and other similar topics, I think this will best sum it up;

You can educate ignorance, but you can't cure stupid.

instead of adding parser they should remove the dps check totally. The dps check mentality is dumb. Bring back mechanic only based fight, and make more fun fights. You cant throw at people dps check without giving them the tools to improve their own dps.
Besides its a very bad decision to keep going with this dps/enrage thing.

So if SSS is sort of replacement of parser, I want to figure out, what is better in as5 (or normal): to blow opener right at beginning, or hold CDs until boss becomes small again? When it is big it has about 25% more defence, but it may be still better than to hold CDs. And is it better to hold CDs every time when boss is big?

Can SSS help me with this for example?

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Originally Posted by Judah_Brandt

Wait, so, like, why do you even need to to know your numbers. If anyone can give me a logical reason that isn't related to inflating their personal ego I'll sign the petition. If the SSS trial which has the DPS check in it exists, if you beat it then you are doing sufficient damage. If you fail it you are not. The exact number is irrelevant. Other's numbers are irrelevant.

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It comes in really handy for helping players adjust their rotation for certain phases of fights. Take Sephirot EX for example. As a SMN my go-to opener is 2 fester 1 painflare. With a parser I was able to see that dropping that in favor of the 1 fester, 1 painflare, 1 energy drain opener yielded higher numbers due to the mechanics of the first phase.

They really do help. Its not all about epeen.

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Originally Posted by DarkB

instead of adding parser they should remove the dps check totally. The dps check mentality is dumb. Bring back mechanic only based fight, and make more fun fights. You cant throw at people dps check without giving them the tools to improve their own dps.
Besides its a very bad decision to keep going with this dps/enrage thing.

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If they remove DPS checks then why even bother bringing DPS in the first place? Why not bring 2 Healers and 6 tanks? After all no checks for them to meet and they'll stay alive easier.

I cosign on the parser.

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

edit:
Link to how to self parse using SSS
Stone, Sky, Sea DPS Calculator

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Thanks for the link. Not sure how those guys created it though ppl sure are crazy nowadys;)

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Originally Posted by Andrea

If they remove DPS checks then why even bother bringing DPS in the first place? Why not bring 2 Healers and 6 tanks? After all no checks for them to meet and they'll stay alive easier.

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Because you dont wanna kill stuff in 20 hours? what kind of question is that. While dps check only prevents people to enjoy the mechanic and fight , the other way doesnt prevent anything. If you have crazy epeen uber DPS you finish in 5 minutes like if you had a dps fight check, if you dont you jus finish in 1 hour. Still you can enjoy the content, and problem solved with this dps check parser dumb mentality.

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Originally Posted by Silica-chan

Thanks for the link. Not sure how those guys created it though ppl sure are crazy nowadys;)

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Someone with a parser got hp totals or each dummy was data mined. Then hp divided by 180 seconds for the minimum or it's hp divided by (180-time remaining) for your dps is my guess.

It's like yay, my scholar hits 1030, but how does that help me understand my dps when you know, I actually have to heal the content.

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Originally Posted by DarkB

Because you dont wanna kill stuff in 20 hours? what kind of question is that. While dps check only prevents people to enjoy the mechanic and fight , the other way doesnt prevent anything. If you have crazy epeen uber DPS you finish in 5 minutes like if you had a dps fight check, if you dont you jus finish in 1 hour. Still you can enjoy the content, and problem solved with this dps check parser dumb mentality.

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First, there will always be some form of DPS check purely because of the pandemonium warden controversy. People getting ill because the fight dragged on way too long because they weren't doing it the right way.

Second, DPS only tank and spank fights aren't engaging. Mechanic only fights aren't engaging either. Anyone can memorize a dummy rotation and anyone can run around in circles in a specific order. Its the combination of the two that makes an encounter engaging. Fights without DPS checks are just as boring as tank and spank fights.

This topic again.

Let me start off by saying that all adding an official parser would do is put console players on more equal footing with PC players, most of whom are already parsing. I'm completely for having at least a personal parser showing your exact damage per second. Think about it - you hit level 60 on your DPS class, with crappy gear. You spend weeks and weeks grinding away for better gear, and as you do so you start to become more comfortable and proficient at playing your job. Why would you not want to see a hard numerical representation of the core basis of your character's gear progression and your personal skill progression? Without a way to see hard numbers, I wouldn't feel much different having an item level 160 MNK as opposed to an item level 210 MNK for example. "but but", you say, "i dont need numbers to see bosses and trash packs die faster". And that is true. But you are one of two, or one of four damage dealers. Wouldn't you want to be 100% certain that stuff is dying faster because of the time and effort you put into your character, and not because of the other DPS?

There are countless thing in life where your progress is quantifiable and noticeable. A pianist can tell that his practice and time is paying off because he plays music more accurately and over time the music sounds better. A weight-lifter can tell that his gym time is paying off because over time he can bench more and muscle/mass gains are noticeable. A calculus student can tell that his time studying and doing problem sets is paying off because he starts doing better on exams, and he starts finishing the problem sets with less effort. An air traffic controller can tell that his time in position is paying off because his sequencing to airports becomes tighter and more efficient while still maintaining required separation. A marathon runner can tell that the effort he puts into running every day is paying off because over time he can run longer distances without getting tired. I can go on and on. There is an undeniable sense of personal fulfillment as you see these noticeable improvements.

Yet you don't want a way to see that the time and effort you put into your character is paying off? "but but", you say, "i can see my progress on SSS, as i gear more and get better at my Job, I finish with more time remaining". Cool, you can see your progress on a static dummy. Don't you want to be able to say "nice, I did much better on Thordan/A8/Sephirot than last time" with a hard number so you know 100% that you are in fact getting better? "but people will demand screenshots of your dps and people will be excluded from content if it's too low". Well, that's not a factor in Duty Finder, only for groups formed in Party Finder. And guess what? It is 100% within a party leader's rights to set whatever standard he pleases, arbitrary or not. If the standards are unreasonable, nobody will join. If the standards are reasonable, than is he really a villain for setting them?

Mind you, everything I've stated above is in reference to a personal meter that only you can see. While I also am 100% for public meters, I recognize that a personal meter is a nice compromise. But raise your hand if you've played MCH/BRD absolutely kicking ass but your DPS partner(s) are completely underperforming and you die to low DPS/boss takes noticeably longer, resulting in YOU being kicked or harassed because "brd dps low/mch bad dps". Public meters would PREVENT as much harassment as it would purportedly cause.

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/...5015883850.jpg

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Originally Posted by Aaliyahrose

..

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I wish I could like that DOUBLE!

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Originally Posted by Mykll

I wish I could like that DOUBLE!

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Then go like the same post on the second page.

I don't care about parsing other people, but I would REALLY like a self parser, even if it only works in SSS. I always fear my dps is really bad so I just stick to Tank or Heals for any semi hard+ content.

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

Then go like the same post on the second page.

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First, I customized my settings to show 40 posts per page. So we are still on the second page. I am guessing the picture you mean, for me is on the first page.

And second, whoooosh, you didn't get the bad pun.

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Originally Posted by Mykll

First, I customized my settings to show 40 posts per page. So we are still on the second page. I am guessing the picture you mean, for me is on the first page.

And second, whoooosh, you didn't get the bad pun.

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LOL NOW I DO. xD Meowth that's right!
Just pointing out that this type of image had already been posted. It's a poor use of the meme though.

When you emphasized DOUBLE I thought you were implying that this topic was beaten like a dead horse, half way decomposed and stinking up the forums again. ;D

Are you guys ready for a radical idea?
On how to solve DPS-meter based harassment?

Here's a radical idea: Don't be bad.

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Originally Posted by Eylirria

Are you guys ready for a radical idea?
On how to solve DPS-meter based harassment?

Here's a radical idea: Don't be bad.

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Too radical....and idealistic.

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Originally Posted by pushin_tin

This topic again.

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What's funny about all this is that the parser thing isn't just alone in this situation: many other possible features are also bashed for fear of "abuse", because they think that might make the community toxic.

Ironically, the fact that people are not wanting such features and relentlessly refuse to acknowledge them in the possible future, actually makes the community even more toxic.

If people want a better game, risks have to be taken - even though they're really not risks, but more like "phobias" at this point. Not inserting a parser doesn't automatically equals to no abuse: people can do that already.

Every community has toxic people, every community has bad people but most importantly of all, every community will have abusers. And FFXIV is really no exception to the rule. Deal with it.

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Originally Posted by Eylirria

Are you guys ready for a radical idea?
On how to solve DPS-meter based harassment?

Here's a radical idea: Don't be bad.

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That's asking too much, plenty do seem to want this game to remain a hugbox for bads!

No one starts off as great but why would anyone want to withhold their own growth I don't understand.

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Originally Posted by DarkB

Because you dont wanna kill stuff in 20 hours? what kind of question is that. While dps check only prevents people to enjoy the mechanic and fight , the other way doesnt prevent anything. If you have crazy epeen uber DPS you finish in 5 minutes like if you had a dps fight check, if you dont you jus finish in 1 hour. Still you can enjoy the content, and problem solved with this dps check parser dumb mentality.

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how does that solve the problem though, that just divides the community even more between those that want it ended in 5 minutes and those that end it in an hour (using your example).

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Too radical....and idealistic.

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I suppose expecting the bare minimum from people is too radical, and too idealistic.
Better to just change the role from "Damage Dealer" to "Tourist"

Just there for the sights and all...

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Originally Posted by Jatoi

That's asking too much, plenty do seem to want this game to remain a hugbox for bads!

No one starts off as great but why would anyone want to withhold their own growth I don't understand.

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Because apparently if you plug your ears and go "lalalalala", magically, the problem disappears.

Kinda like sweeping dirt under the rug and acting like your house is clean.

Just going to leave this here for your enjoyment while you'll keep beating around the bush with this topic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UNqHHPJhD4

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

LOL NOW I DO. xD Meowth that's right!
Just pointing out that this type of image had already been posted. It's a poor use of the meme though.

When you emphasized DOUBLE I thought you were implying that this topic was beaten like a dead horse, half way decomposed and stinking up the forums again. ;D

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I didn't want to re-quote such a large picture, especially if I was the very next post. =) And I couldn't think of a good way to do their entire speech so I just emphasized double. :/

The only thing a parser is going to tell you is that someone is either A) not using a good rotation or B) they don't know the fight yet. SSS, in theory, is there to work out all the kinks in an ideal setting. So if you beat the dummy but have bad dps in the instant, you don't know the fight yet. You don't need a parser to tell you that.

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Originally Posted by Eylirria

Because apparently if you plug your ears and go "lalalalala", magically, the problem disappears.

Kinda like sweeping dirt under the rug and acting like your house is clean.

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We're not getting one. This bad debate has been going on forever on this forum. Get used to the idea. The dev team is smart enough to know it's not a good thing for the game.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

We're not getting one. This bad debate has been going on forever on this forum. Get used to the idea. The dev team is smart enough to know it's not a good thing for the game.

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More like the dev team thinks the playerbase in general needs to be babysat.

Unfortunately, they're absolutely correct about a sizeable portion of it.

Maybe the only reason is not implement is because of how toxic the community is,dev know that... an ppl will abuse of it.
thats the only true.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Playstation players are not getting one.

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Fixed that for you. Not like there are plans to take away parsers from PCs.

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

Fixed that for you. Not like there are plans to take away parsers from PCs.

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Dream all you like. I'll tell you what, show it to me when it happens. Just a suggestion, don't hold your breath.

With or without it, people that are abusive will continue to be belligerent. Data in and of itself is good, and having no feedback to work with is bad when there are multiples of a role, whose job essentially boils down to make this mob's HP go to zero, and individual contribution isn't always so transparent. Sure, a healer also deals with numbers, but the effect of their numbers being low/mistimed equals dead members, which is very noticeable. If you aren't taking hits to the face, or tossing numbers at party members, your job is to make things dead and you best be doing it. Tanks and healers are already easy to evaluate and find mistakes, DPS shouldn't get a free pass or a carry.

In such a situation where no one knows what their DPS is, and a DPS check failed even with mechanics done properly, who are you going to blame? At best it could be one of two, or it's a combination of four players. Would you blame all of the DPS, even though two are pulling their weight and it's one or two players pulling ARR numbers in level 60 content? What if there was an excellent BRD or MCH, but the others aren't pulling their weight, you want to guess who is more likely to receive blame for their failure? In the case of not knowing, blame is blanketed on multiple players, even those that don't deserve it.

It's now a climate of babying a rather important (though unsung) role, where even expecting people to play at bare minimum is too much to ask, and as a great example to illustrate it, A8 a good reminder of that.

On the note of bringing up DPS meters and WoW, in the near decade I've played it, the amount of bullying that I have witnessed that happens over DPS is negligible. Pre-LFD and LFR was best since every one on the server would know if you pulled your weight in runs.