A8 Farming

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Originally Posted by Yukiko

I dont like how you call "others"!
Just because "others" meet enrage, it doesnt mean they are not trying hard enough, point.
Just because "YOU" did not meet enrage it doesnt mean "others" are as awesome as "YOU" are!

Such comments can be considdered "conceited"...

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I'm not sure what you're trying to say here? If the DPS can't meet the enrage on Midas normal, then they need to adapt and improve, the content shouldn't adapt to their needs. I'm not a great player by any stretch of the imagination, but I actually try and googled how to play my Job, if the others aren't capable of meeting enrage then perhaps they should do the same? Unless they have a disability, then everyone can get to a decent level with enough practice. If they can't be assed to do that, then they aren't deserving of the rewards of the content, just like I'm not entitled to Savage loot when I don't do it.

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Originally Posted by Noxifer

Well... It's also a matter of when you go in there. For example, early in the week, during 'prime time' on your server, you get more of the 'good' players, who go there to farm. During off hours, you get fewer players, and the

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I went in late in the week last week and did manage to clear M3 with just one wipe a few times, maybe I'm just lucky.

Farmed with a full party last night. Three runs, only one wipe. Everyone got their loots!

We were all in TS though, which really helps. And our raid leader loot locked to make sure everyone got what they needed.

Alright, I feel the need to ask this question because it's been bugging me. Why are people even going for the shaft/spring? Assuming you get 1 a week from M3-M4 it will take you four weeks to get the body/legs right? But in four weeks time, you could just cap lore tomestones and get the 230 body and legs without needing the springs/shafts from Midas.

The only reason to run M4 is for the guaranteed item for the weapon tomestone once a week.

If you think it's bad now, just wait a few weeks until the mid-core players get all their stuff and stop doing runs. It was about 6-7 weeks into Gorditas, I expect it in about 2-3 weeks due to lore and superior crafted gear being released at the same time as Midas.

I love Midas 4 because it's the only time you get to see people fighting each other ferociously in order to get their hands around a shaft!

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Originally Posted by Yukiko

I dont like how you call "others"!
Just because "others" meet enrage, it doesnt mean they are not trying hard enough, point.
Just because "YOU" did not meet enrage it doesnt mean "others" are as awesome as "YOU" are!

Such comments can be considdered "conceited"...

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There's no conceit involved in what she said, though. The DPS check on Midas Normal is really low. If it isn't being met and it isn't the result of something obvious like people disconnecting, it more than likely comes down to bad play. If the group isn't meeting the enrage, by definition it does mean that as a collective whole, the group isn't trying hard enough. Since it's new content and we don't shamefully overgear it yet, one or two players not doing their jobs can be more than enough to drag the group down. The key is to know when to remove players that are refusing to improve their play and holding you back.

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

Alright, I feel the need to ask this question because it's been bugging me. Why are people even going for the shaft/spring? Assuming you get 1 a week from M3-M4 it will take you four weeks to get the body/legs right? But in four weeks time, you could just cap lore tomestones and get the 230 body and legs without needing the springs/shafts from Midas.

The only reason to run M4 is for the guaranteed item for the weapon tomestone once a week.

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Last week I got spring/spring from A7 and A8 and did the same this week. I get my lore top and my Midan pants. Win!

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

Alright, I feel the need to ask this question because it's been bugging me. Why are people even going for the shaft/spring? Assuming you get 1 a week from M3-M4 it will take you four weeks to get the body/legs right? But in four weeks time, you could just cap lore tomestones and get the 230 body and legs without needing the springs/shafts from Midas.

The only reason to run M4 is for the guaranteed item for the weapon tomestone once a week.

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Just gonna step in and say, while they can get the Lore body/legs in the same/less time, they may also be going for either A.) Glamour, and/or B.) Gearing up another job.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

If you think it's bad now, just wait a few weeks until the mid-core players get all their stuff and stop doing runs. It was about 6-7 weeks into Gorditas, I expect it in about 2-3 weeks due to lore and superior crafted gear being released at the same time as Midas.

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Put it at 7 weeks for non-savage clearers since they need to do 7 for a High-Capacity Tombstone for weapons. And thats if they are only going for one.

I couldn't pass faust in a5 on my alt. Had easy solution - I had all languages checked. After I removed all but E, killed it first try

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

Alright, I feel the need to ask this question because it's been bugging me. Why are people even going for the shaft/spring?

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And another reason apart from those already mentioned is that the Lore top/pants don't always have the best secondary stats. For example, as a scholar I try to maximize my crit rate. And both the pants and the boots from Midas have crit rate, whereas the Lore pants/boots don't. So I'm going for the Midas version for those.
(Same with tank gear, I try to go for as few pieces as possible with Parry, since I most often go as OT in my static, so... I don't get to parry all that often anyway.)

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Originally Posted by Colorful

I went in late in the week last week and did manage to clear M3 with just one wipe a few times, maybe I'm just lucky.

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I did all of Midas for the first time on Sunday afternoon (10am-1pm PST) and in Duty Finder... Wiped max 3 times for each midas run but I'm pretty sure that in all four floors I didn't wipe more than 10 times.

I always enjoy going with the FC, first of all there isn't the crappy calling someone out for the little things, and creative criticism, although rolling on anything is pain and stupid to say the least, if only they would of learned something from the first 4, people always bickering.

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Originally Posted by Dualblade

Put it at 7 weeks for non-savage clearers since they need to do 7 for a High-Capacity Tombstone for weapons. And thats if they are only going for one.

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That will just be a once weekly clear though, not repeated runs to get a specific drop.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

That will just be a once weekly clear though, not repeated runs to get a specific drop.

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Which is still more than Gordias had going for it.

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Originally Posted by vp_cmc

I couldn't pass faust in a5 on my alt. Had easy solution - I had all languages checked. After I removed all but E, killed it first try

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If you were repeatedly having trouble clearing the trash in Alexander Midas when most people have been getting by just fine then maybe the problem wasn't the english speaking community. Just saying.

Honestly I do my midas when its reset and with fc or LS. But when I help others and I can't get enough help due to people either raid, do seph or simply isn't logged on, we do duty finder. When you have 6-7 different groups and they enrage from 40-5%. What is wrong? I'm not going to blame certain classes here, rather than the players who play them. I've also had groups where I ask in a very polite and nice way if anyone doesn't know the mechanics and no one replies. So I asume they know it but they keep die to the same thing. How do we solve that? Honestly I¨ve had enough and even told them multiply of times how to do it, so the response is: We know what to do, we aren't stupid, go get a life. Really? And people say elitist pricks are bad? What about those 70% scrub players who keep saying this? You aren't excactly better if you keep talk shit like that.

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Originally Posted by Adire

If only. I have work that doesn't leave me with a very good schedule for having a pseudo static.

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What server are you on? I'm on Hyperion and could run it with ya and try to round up people.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Easier said than done, unfortunately. Finding seven other people to get online at the exact same time can be very tricky - especially with conflicting schedules/time zones/interests.

With that said I generally find that the Duty Finder is generally decent. Yes, I get bad groups - but the majority are generally pretty good. If you're wiping more than once, though, sometimes it's best to just leave and try again.

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It doesn't have to be a static. lol
Just pick a bunch of people who are on at the time and you know aren't DF-quality bad. That's what I did for my Midas NM items this week.
I snagged some people from a hunt linkshell, a pvp guy I know, a guy from my FC, and a couple people I regularly see in Idyllshire. (This was at 12AM PST/3AM EST, so pretty late.)

I feel that limiting the shaft only to this one (and the chain only on the first section) was a poor decision.

I find A7 to be more of an issue with DF groups than A8.

Yea A7 is harder in a DF be cuss we need a tank swap ( less burden on healers) difficult if OT is jailed so MT has to use heavy cooldowns, avoiding weight of the world. These are mostly the hardest parts. The rest are just matters of dpsing the boss and adds.

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Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

I feel that limiting the shaft only to this one (and the chain only on the first section) was a poor decision.

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Every non-guaranteed drop based loot is a poor decision >_>

Every time, you have the issue of some people having to work harder than others for the same reward because of RNG. Limiting the shaft to M4 only compounds the issue, because the chance for people going in specifically for that item is high, but the principle is ultimately the same. They should scratch the current token system completely and just put in a guaranteed clear token system instead.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

They should scratch the current token system completely and just put in a guaranteed clear token system instead.

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I think they should do both, in that it's an RNG chance but after x amount of runs you choose a piece for free. If everything was guaranteed immediately, the issue then arises that nobody does anything more than once.

I get annoyed by farming it (for alt jobs), but I can deal.

Even worse though - last week, I already had my clear, and someone from my static asked for drop help on Sunday. The party was 7/8 premade with people from his FC.. I figured great, easy clear. The 8th from DF was a healer.

It was an utter trainwreck of a run with constant deaths and failed mechanics (add exploded on the first time, then people went for adds on the second time instead of burning boss, but another add exploded. We likely would have hit enrage if we hadn't've wiped. I can't remember if we went another time, but it ended in a vote abandon (DF healer was perfect).

Premade doesn't always mean win. :(

A8 is really easy on DF, in the Chaos dataserver. A7, now that is where everyone keeps failing :(
But i agree, the grind is annoying. on Tuesday you do A5-8, in the next few days u cap lore, and then ure done. In the time needed to lvl 1 char to 60, you can farm enough ego to buy whole sets for 2 alt jobs...

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Originally Posted by LadyVal

If everything was guaranteed immediately, the issue then arises that nobody does anything more than once.

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That's something that can be adjusted via different caps. Want people to run M4 four times per week on average? Put a 4 token cap there, 16 tokens buy an item.
All token systems do is to even out the amount of times you need to run the content among all participants and prevent you from leaving without any progression towards the goal you wanted to achieve by running the content.

IMO, gambling simply has no place in gearing, despite the tradition it has in MMOs. That's a matter best left to our resident casino, aka the gold saucer.

I'd like to see them add the Relic items to 5-8. Have it be the same item that dropped in Gordias so you can combine the two if you want. At least then I'm also making some Relic progression.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

IMO, gambling simply has no place in gearing, despite the tradition it has in MMOs. That's a matter best left to our resident casino, aka the gold saucer.

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RNG isn't in MMO's all nilly willy for no reason. RNG adds longevity, and you can see it as 2 ways- lazy designing where they should add enough content each patch that people can burn through once and still feel like they got some play time out of the patch, or just that, it's there to supplement the fact that MMO teams for the most part could never create enough content per patch to keep the online 6/7 days a week occupied.

okay its probably me but multi-wipe fails of A8 (Midas 4) NORMAL? By the Gods, Savage version I can see but Normal I have out of all the times I've ran it never seen an abandon/multi-wipe for that I've seen maybe 2-3 2nd try clears at worst.... okay over hyping my confusion I'll just chack my lack of seeing this to luck & that I go PLD every time (only fight outa Midas I don't Tank is Midas 3/A7 cause of that damn cat), that & maybe DF on Primal data center in NA's am time has less crappy ppl on.

My condilences on u'r may wipes & lack of good RNG rolls, just please remember Causality is not u'r friend (my term use for RNG since ppl in Reality don't understand using RNG in conversation... that & its tie to cause & effect which I noticed all things seam to follow, even a random number generator)

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Originally Posted by Greedalox

RNG adds longevity[...]

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So do token systems. What's the difference between a quest that has you kill 10 boars and another that asks for a boar liver with 10% drop chance? On the grand scale, next to none. People will on average kill roughly 10 boars and finish the quest. Maybe 9.786 boars, maybe 10.721 boars, but somewhere around 10. A single person however might have to slaughter 1000 boars for that stupid liver - a statistical outlier that doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.
And that is the only difference between tokens and RNG. With tokens, statistical outliers don't exist, everyone gets the exact same reward for the exact same amount of effort.

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Originally Posted by Ebonwings

Yea A7 is harder in a DF be cuss we need a tank swap ( less burden on healers) difficult if OT is jailed so MT has to use heavy cooldowns, avoiding weight of the world. These are mostly the hardest parts. The rest are just matters of dpsing the boss and adds.

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Nah! A7 is difficult because people have a bad case of tunnel vision when the cat spawns, namely the Heart.

People still wipe on A8?

As soon as I got all 230/220 items I stopped farming Midas flat out and only do A8 for the gear. Raiding in general is boring and extremely repetitive.

Ya doing content is bullcrap, every tuesday i should just log in and have a midan shaft sitting in my mogbox.... this game so unfair!! I spent a whole 10 minutes doing A8N and didn't get rewarded for it.

People still tank swap in A8? I've solo'd it on both my DRK and WAR, it's all about proper buff usage, nothing more. Same for Brawler solo tanking in A6 too.

I still think the shaft/spring are a waste honestly. Once I got all the 220's for the other slots (I was in almost all 220-230 by week 4) I have now just started doing A8 for the guaranteed weekly drop for the 230 weapon and I ignore the other floors. Thankfully I think Brute Justice is one of the most awesome fights I've ever seen.

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

I still think the shaft/spring are a waste honestly. Once I got all the 220's for the other slots (I was in almost all 220-230 by week 4) I have now just started doing A8 for the guaranteed weekly drop for the 230 weapon and I ignore the other floors. Thankfully I think Brute Justice is one of the most awesome fights I've ever seen.

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It's the music.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

People still wipe on A8?

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When people ask me if a swap is needed, I tell them to do it at their own discretion.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

People still wipe on A8?

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First run of the day, one tank was new and the other wanted to swap (but said nothing). We wiped shortly after entering the second phase, and then the tank suggested swapping.

Party was pretty awful though. People kept dying to mechanics and the DPS was awful - we were at 70% on the first Brute Justice jump away. I thought for sure we'd wipe to enrage, but we managed to bring him down before it.. somehow.

I am seriously reconsidering my idea of gearing alt jobs in Midas gear.. at least, maybe not shafts/bolts.

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

I still think the shaft/spring are a waste honestly. Once I got all the 220's for the other slots (I was in almost all 220-230 by week 4) I have now just started doing A8 for the guaranteed weekly drop for the 230 weapon and I ignore the other floors. Thankfully I think Brute Justice is one of the most awesome fights I've ever seen.

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Not necessarily
For my main job, yes they were useless.
But now they are nice for gearing up secondary jobs since I'm still using lore for my main

M8n has been more forgiving in duty finder for me than M4n for instance. I recently was bored enough to farm out a 2nd relic so I was doing M4n a bunch for the "precision" parts and I found success rate on that was far lower in duty finder than m8n. Granted, both usually succeed.

It seems there are really only 2 things that prevent duty finder groups from muddling through a instance (imho):
1) How tight is the dps check?
Dps, while not normally important in most content, when it's important it's make or break. If there is some enrage and you have people making mistakes laying dead on the floor, it's hard to recover. I'd put healing or tanking above that normally but if we are talking about easier content (as in normal mode or tome farm stuff), generally most tanks or healers are fine if the other one is less experienced/skilled and dies (and many pride themselves on the challenge of doing it 'solo' so maybe they actually want to see what happens if their counterpart dies? 0.o).

2)Is there a instant kill everyone (wipe) mechanic that as few as one or two people could mess up?
Personal accountability is a important thing of course, but most people don't seem to care about getting themselves killed in duty finder content and often blame it away on something else ("I didn't get healed!","I lagged!","Tanks, why u no aggro!","Why did I die, I did it right!"), and maybe it's fine because they can get rezzed or whatever and no one really cares that much. However, if they can kill the entire party simultaneously by their mistake then you probably aren't going to clear it unless they decide to own up to it and change (which isn't probably going to happen with strangers that will never see each other again after the group is over).

But as far as a8n, it's very forgiving. I've farmed it lots with strangers and I think I've only seen the enrage once (I think it was just me and 2 others standing for a long time). My reaction to that was: "This has an enrage? 0.o"