Sephirot Theme ( Phase 2 ) sound familiar?

[QUOTE=BrokenFox;3588229]Just bring back Uematsu and the rest of the guys, SE

I feel bad for Soken since its stuff like from Pm5k or people placing him under such a pedestal when compared to other composers.

Powerman 5000 haven't been relevant in 15 years. If anything, they should be glad that someone decided to pay homage to their work. It doesn't even sound that similar enough to be anywhere near copyright infringement.

Wow, there's even a Kotaku article about it now

I wonder if we can have a primal fight that pulls inspiration from one of Kamelot's songs next; I quite enjoy Kamelot.

Welcome to the age where originality is quite hard to pull off.

The song follows the same vein for sure, but there are enough differences to make legal action somewhat difficult to pull off.

When Worlds Collide would actually fit the fight itself too, especially when you consider that the worlds of FFXIV and FFVI are colliding at that moment.

That said, when i first heard the Sephirot theme, my mind went straight to Devil May Cry.

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Originally Posted by Torunya

It's probably not even homeage, I bet my socks on this just being a coincidence.

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The main guitar riff (up and down on a tritone) is exactly the same. Literally the same key, even. They clearly took inspiration from WWC.

Is it "plagiarism" though? The two songs have plenty of differences, but that repeating riff is the most defining thing about the original. They probably should've been more careful and come up with something different to use.

All buttrock sound the same.

While it's very similar, I don't think theres enough to warrant an actual ripoff seeing as how bands and a lot of games do the same.
A more blatant example is Black Sabbath and Danzig.
Black Sabbath: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXcermq2WLs
Danzig: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VohN-IemIHs
Both those songs are different, but you can kinda tell Danzig did copy Sabbaths riff.

It's really nothing new between even musicians, and with games.

Hell, Doom's whole soundtrack is just rip offs of hard rock and heavy metal bands
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H3BB2gKKeY

And Mega man... Well, I like to think this was more of a neat coincidence, but cool non the less.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTNpKZs_Sao

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

Apparently, Powerman 5000 thinks so too...
https://puu.sh/njUwf/826260f8af.jpg

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Grow a set, your band hasn't been relevant in years. How many hits do you have? Just one? And your lucky enough that people even remember that. Hell, your lucky that someone subconsciously even remembered that it existed to even rip it off.

Man could you imagine if all the people whose music is in this video went after each other for the chords
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOlDewpCfZQ

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Originally Posted by Reila_Circus

Grow a set, your band hasn't been relevant in years. How many hits do you have? Just one? And your lucky enough that people even remember that. Hell, your lucky that someone subconsciously even remembered that it existed to even rip it off.

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I would like to say, while I do not care for the group nor this situation, this isn't a suitable excuse to rip off other peoples music.

To be honest, I know I don't listen to that type of music, but I am pretty familiar with a lot of music given my background, but I've never even heard of Powerman 5000 until now, lmfao.

I can definitely hear the similarity as a PM5k fan. But I don't think it's a ripoff. The intros though? They are extremely similar.

whoooa that's so weird! I don't think it was on purpose though, I mean what are the chances? Although there is one dungeon, I'm struggling to remember it now, where the music sounds like "total eclipse of the heart" (that specific part of the song) and it makes me hum the entire time.

FFXIV took inspirations from many things. Even the Halloween song.

That jabroni band should be proud that Lord Soken-sama paid a tribute to their song.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

In the US, you can get copyright issues for things that sound "substantially similar" though, even one cord progression if your label spends enough money and their lawyers are good enough.

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Fixed it for you. Had to account for the American "Justice" system.

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Originally Posted by CosmicKirby

Fixed it for you. Had to account for the American "Justice" system.

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At least we are not copyrighting a "reaction" to it am I right? *wink wink*

But in all seriousness. Let's just see how the cookie crumbles before we start bad mouthing SE or Powerman 5000. Perhaps there will be a proper homage from Soken to them or perhaps Powerman 5000 will just leave it as is and things will carry on normally.

They definitely have a similar rhythm, but the lyrics are nothing alike. Frankly, that's enough that if Powerman5000 did attempt anything, they would lose.

I don't know how some of you can say this is just a coincidence when not only do the beat, tempo, and styles match up, but specific and iconic words from the song match up not to mention similar concepts within the songs, and similar vocal inflections.

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Originally Posted by Ranulf

To be honest, I know I don't listen to that type of music, but I am pretty familiar with a lot of music given my background, but I've never even heard of Powerman 5000 until now, lmfao.

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Neither have I.

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Originally Posted by Platinumstorm

I don't know how some of you can say this is just a coincidence.

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I doubt that it was a coincidence. They are similar, but also very different. I feel like somebody should do an actual mashup of both songs playing at the same time and overlapping perfectly to see whats really similar and different with each song.

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Originally Posted by Platinumstorm

I don't know how some of you can say this is just a coincidence when not only do the beat, tempo, and styles match up, but specific and iconic words from the song match up not to mention similar concepts within the songs, and similar vocal inflections.

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I keep seeing "Similar" but not once has anyone said that a line was "The Exact Same" in both works.

I don't know how a court would view it, but to me that's reaching awfully hard. Especially considering that, no matter the instrument, there are only so many notes and note combinations with many having significantly less than others. So I'm not sure who ever this Powerman guy is but I'm not quite sure he has a leg to stand on legally.

It's an interesting situation.

I've been reading Powerman5000s initial comment and SE seems to be getting an overwhelming amount of support from the comments (one comment saying 'I can find 3 Rammenstein songs that are similar to Worlds Collide, why aren't you complaining about that?).

It seems they are receiving many criticisms.

Personally...
I feel that it is not a rip off because if you actually listen to the song without the battle sounds from your party its rather clear how different they are.
In fact I feel that if even one thing was changed (Either the pitch of the singer or the initial guitar rift) then there would have been no comparison made whatsoever. To me there needs to be many similarities that need to be changed before it is no longer similar for it to be an issue.

It is less similar than the Great King's 'Halloween' sound which of course is a remix of the FFVI Moogle theme and came before 'This is Halloween'.

I feel it's a little bit of drama that will quickly pass.
And I am really looking forward to trying out Extreme mode.

I'm going to be honest guys, the song isn't very "original" in the first place. I mean, in a nutshell, it's a repeated guitar track with deep, male, kinda gravelly singing. There are a lot more songs with those traits than this one.

I don't/didn't know who these people where until patch day.

They should be happy people are paying any attention to them/learning about them.

The BGM for Sephirot is really great, but I didn't know it's almost same with Tony Hawk Pro Skater 2 I've played long ago :eek: Too sad if it's used asset from other work :/

But I don't really care if it's copyright or not, the song is my favourite.

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Originally Posted by KuraiKiserogeru

I don't/didn't know who these people where until patch day.

They should be happy people are paying any attention to them/learning about them.

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This is pretty much free advertising for them :P

To me, when I first heard phase 2 music, it came across as a Rammstein/Rob Zombie mash-up as far as styles are concerned. This may be similar to When Worlds Collide in a few parts (now that I took the time to listen to both carefully), but I don't think it's a ripoff by any means let alone saying they're the same with just different lyrics. I think a lot of people are falling into the bandwagon drama and it just looks like they're blowing this out of proportion way more than necessary.

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Originally Posted by Veralidaine

Although there is one dungeon, I'm struggling to remember it now, where the music sounds like "total eclipse of the heart" (that specific part of the song) and it makes me hum the entire time.

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Can't say I remember hearing that, but I do like Sohm Ahl (or the Terminator dungeon). Definitely sounds like some notes from the Terminator score in there - which is awesome.

It changes to be very different as it progresses, but I would agree the opening 20 seconds or so is damn near identical to "When Worlds Collide" many raised an eyebrow at the music in the mog primal, but this is much more blatant. I can understand the band's irritation, though I suspect they would have been fine with an homage had he asked rather than just doing it.

It sounds a lot like music from DMC 3/4 and also other bands with an industrial vibe.

Seriously, if you look up tracks from Devil May Cry 3 or 4 and find the industrial rock songs they carry a very similar vibe.

Not sure if it's a genre-specific thing.

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Originally Posted by Kowen

The main guitar riff (up and down on a tritone) is exactly the same. Literally the same key, even. They clearly took inspiration from WWC.

Is it "plagiarism" though? The two songs have plenty of differences, but that repeating riff is the most defining thing about the original. They probably should've been more careful and come up with something different to use.

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^Exactly this.

I was 25 in 1999 when "When Worlds Collide" came out, and I used to rock out to it back in the day. And Sephirot Phase 2 is so strikingly similar, with these identical elements, that if I heard this in a club I would immediately think it was a new Powerman5000 mix.

Fortunately, copyrights eventually expire and the owner no longer has no exclusive rights. All compositions not protected under copyright law are said to be in the public domain. A work is in the public domain when no one on this entire planet can find any law which gives them legal claim to that property. Public domain is the complete absence of any law allowing ownership of a property. If you can prove that a composition is in the public domain, you can use the work any way you can imagine. You can arrange, reproduce, perform, record, publish it, and use or sell it commercially any way you like.
Now if they have a copyright SE is in trouble.

I just laugh at the fact that people hate on this. I love these references to other songs/celebs/whatever in games. The 2nd boss in anti tower has a reference to one of David Bowie's albums, for example. Or the Moogle Primal theme, which is inspired by the movie Nightmare before Christmas. It's called an Easter Egg and they're quite popular in many games. WoW does the same thing. For example, the dance moves of the playable races, are a reference to dance moves that singers perform during particular songs.

If they had literally taken the tony hawk music and placed it under Sephiroths fight, then I'd have a problem with this, but this isn't a direct rip off. It's just inspired by something alot of people are familiar with. Which is meant to be fun, not something to moan about. There is nothing wrong with it imo. Besides, chances are they asked for permission to do this otherwise I don't think they'd be that stupid to put this online.

Not even close. It doesn't even sound similar at any point.

It sounds more like a Devil May Cry song.

They just wanted some free publicity and some websites are falling to it, sadly.

Regarding the Music for the 2nd Phase of Containment Bay S1T7

I have read through your comments concerning the BGM for the 2nd phase of the Containment Bay S1T7 battle with Sephirot, and I would like to personally explain how the track was conceived.

As most FINAL FANTASY fans already know, Sephirot (the Fiend) is a legacy boss character who originally appeared in FINAL FANTASY VI. When considering how to portray Sephirot's return in FINAL FANTASY XIV, we decided to pay tribute to FFVI by working VI's "Battle to the Death" track into the Containment Bay S1T7's first phase, while opting to create an FFXIV original for the second.

Building upon the motif of Sephirot as a representation of the World Tree, to create this FINAL FANTASY XIV original track, we further incorporated story-driven themes of death and a warped obsession with life, all while utilizing a musical genre─industrial rock─which we believed would provide substantial emphasis to the message.

Industrial rock is a popular genre that can be further divided into numerous sub-genres. Countless songs from these genres have been released worldwide, and I have been made aware of an allegation regarding similarities between an existing track and the track created for the 2nd phase of Containment Bay S1T7. However, track composer Masayoshi Soken, has also stated to me that he was unaware of the track in question while working on this FINAL FANTASY track.

We hope that you continue to enjoy FINAL FANTASY XIV battle content.


FINAL FANTASY XIV Producer and Director, Naoki Yoshida


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■FFXIVセフィロト討滅戦 バトル後半の楽曲について■

皆さんこんにちは、FFXIVプロデューサー兼ディレクターの吉田です。

昨日リリースされたパッチ3.2に実装されている「セフィロト討滅戦」後半のBGMについて、
皆さんのコメントを拝見しました。

ここで吉田から、改めてこのBGMの制作意図についてご説明させていただきます。

魔人セフィロトはFFファンの皆さんは良くご存じの通り、FFVIに登場した強力なボスモンスターです。
この魔人セフィロトをFFXIVの世界によみがえらせる際に、FFVIオリジナルの曲である”死闘”を
しっかりと踏襲した上で、魔人セフィロト討滅戦の後半では、FFXIVオリジナル楽曲で盛り上げる、
という意図の元にコンテンツが実装されています。

この魔人セフィロト討滅戦後半のBGMでは、”セフィロト”本来の意味である”生命の樹”をモチーフに、
魔人の力によって、邪な生への執着と死を力強く表現することをテーマに、インダストリアル・ロックという
楽曲ジャンルを選択し、ファイナルファンタジーXIVオリジナル楽曲として作曲されました。

インダストリアル・ロックは派生ジャンルも多い人気の楽曲ジャンルです。
世界中で多数の同一ジャンルの曲が発表されおり、幾つか類似点のご指摘も拝見いたしました。
しかしながら、魔人セフィロト討滅戦後半BGMの作曲者である祖堅は、
ご指摘いただいている楽曲の存在を知らず、本BGMを作曲したことを、念のために申し添えておきます。

引き続き、ファイナルファンタジーXIV最新のバトルコンテンツを心置きなくお楽しみください！

thankyou for taking the time to comment and help clear this up yoshida ^^

Actually yeah. A lot of industrial rock songs are introduced in similar manners with sound effects, have similar beats almost down to being identical and then of course there's usually a set, limited range of notes to pick between for riffs and melodies before you deviate from the genre, as with the monotonous singing style. Having an artist then follow these rules, creating something new in a stagnant genre might very well be the result you see in this situation...

The only thing bothering me about the whole situation is that both singers start out with the exact same word, singing the exact same first notes. That's about it, the rest just sounds like any other industrial song. *shrugs*

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Originally Posted by Decoy_Wolff

This is pretty much free advertising for them :P

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Not really if there's no mention of that band. -_-

The man himself has spoken! Thanks Yoshida ^^/

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Originally Posted by Kukajoo

thankyou for taking the time to comment and help clear this up yoshida ^^

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I don't think in the history of accusations like this the line "we weren't aware of your song" has ever changed someone's mind from the course of action they want to take against it.

I don't even think being able to prove that (not that you could) would change how a lawsuit would turn out.