Concerned about Yoshi-P

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

I really..really hope this is sarcasm, otherwise the company I'm at been developing games the wrong way for years -- All the money we could saved!

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heres a time line (game gets developed) (game launches)

ffxiv time line (game gets semi developed) (game launches) (more development) ..the cost is where? in the development, having to start over or not, is no different then them scraping a project and doing another one at worse no?

To be honest, it's a little ridiculous to be all concerned and fawning over the "health" of a game dev, who by the way, is probably making 6 figures and in all likelihood has secured his future with this job.

I mean really? You don't know this guy lol. You really have no clue at all about how he lives his life, or his work schedule, or what "cares" his supervisors are taking, or anything else. What are you gonna worry about next, his fiber intake?

He's not a charity worker. He's a dude getting paid, probably very well, for a moderately difficult job.

If you wanna put care packages together, how about putting one together for the soldier who's sweating his balls off and getting shot at in some god-forsaken country across the world from his home? Or one for some poor person who lost everything when a tsunami decided to wash away everything they owned? Or how about one of the millions of kids who's about to starve to death or die from AIDS in some bankrupt country?

I dunno, the OP just reeks of silliness to me. Seriously, there are a lot better people to be worried about than "Yoshi-P."

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Originally Posted by Travesty

To be honest, it's a little ridiculous to be all concerned and fawning over the "health" of a game dev, who by the way, is probably making 6 figures and in all likelihood has secured his future with this job.

I mean really? You don't know this guy lol. You really have no clue at all about how he lives his life, or his work schedule, or what "cares" his supervisors are taking, or anything else. What are you gonna worry about next, his fiber intake?

He's not a charity worker. He's a dude getting paid, probably very well, for a moderately difficult job.

If you wanna put care packages together, how about putting one together for the soldier who's sweating his balls off and getting shot at in some god-forsaken country across the world from his home? Or one for some poor person who lost everything when a tsunami decided to wash away everything they owned? Or how about one of the millions of kids who's about to starve to death or die from AIDS in some bankrupt country?

I dunno, the OP just reeks of silliness to me. Seriously, there are a lot better people to be worried about than "Yoshi-P."

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I agree wholeheartedly. There's no point arguing here as the majority is against you. Just look at my sig. Best idea is to {Run away!}

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Originally Posted by Travesty

To be honest, it's a little ridiculous to be all concerned and fawning over the "health" of a game dev, who by the way, is probably making 6 figures and in all likelihood has secured his future with this job.

I mean really? You don't know this guy lol. You really have no clue at all about how he lives his life, or his work schedule, or what "cares" his supervisors are taking, or anything else. What are you gonna worry about next, his fiber intake?"

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By the way: He actually told us about his work schedule, and is it truly that wrong to worry about a human being as a human being?

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He's not a charity worker. He's a dude getting paid, probably very well, for a moderately difficult job.

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He can die just like any other human, that's basically saying "Oh he gets a lot of money, we shouldn't care about him."

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Originally Posted by weeble

heres a time line (game gets developed) (game launches)

ffxiv time line (game gets semi developed) (game launches) (more development) ..the cost is where? in the development, having to start over or not, is no different then them scraping a project and doing another one at worse no?

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It really depends on the project in general because for example, they already dumped a lot of money into XIV's development, then fast forward through the year after launch with making almost no money and only costing money -- They say they need funds because this isn't the only game they're working on and eventually, they'll have to start siphoning money from other projects into XIV, when it already makes next to zero. You also have to take note of the investors, but in the case of XIV, it's self-funded from what I remember, which is the big reason they need to institute fees.

MMOs are a different breed when it comes to development, it's a constant stream of costs (and profit), but XIV was a constant stream of costs and no profit for a full year (box sales really won't even return 1/4 of what it cost to make), and with MMOs, sub fees are generally the reason content and the like can be created as well as speed of such (unless the developer is generally slow), same with F2P model -- Cash shops generate the necessary funds for the project.

It costs more to start up a new project as time goes on because you also have to develop on higher end tools, XIV started off development back in 2006/2007. as new tools get released costs increase, so in XIV's case, it would be cheaper to just overhaul it than to completely scrap what exists and start anew -- They said while they're scrapping systems, the game will essentially be the same.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

By the way: He actually told us about his work schedule, and is it truly that wrong to worry about a human being as a human being?

He can die just like any other human, that's basically saying "Oh he gets a lot of money, we shouldn't care about him."

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No, it's not wrong to worry about people. But it's silly to worry about people that don't need worrying about and can completely and totally take care of themselves. If you honestly think that he's gonna DIE from being overworked, you must not think much of his ability to take care of himself. If it were me being talked about the way the OP is talking about him, I'd feel insulted. He's a grown-ass man. He can take care of himself. Fawning over his health on a message board is ridiculous and embarrassing.

i understand that but what your talking about is after launch, they don't make money till that time so really it's all lose making the game, that is the part that is no different.

what is really being said is any mmo can just launch when not ready, then charge us for development. when really the game would of spent all that money, then launched ..then made it's money back. this year and next year you might as well say it is pre launch cause it shouldn't of launched right? so this hole cost in reality is the normal cost of making a mmo. yes they changed stuff and w/e but if this was all done prior to launch it's the same cost. if not had launched early they would of been forced to either scrap the hole project or just keep funding it. right only real cost to them that is "Different" is server costs. that is all.

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Originally Posted by Colino

I'm sure he's doing fine and doesn't need you crying over him.

Think about yourself and everything will be ok.

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this just has "Welcome to the FF14 Forums" written all over it

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Originally Posted by Travesty

No, it's not wrong to worry about people. But it's silly to worry about people that don't need worrying about and can completely and totally take care of themselves. If you honestly think that he's gonna DIE from being overworked, you must not think much of his ability to take care of himself.

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To clarify something I wasn't just talking about Yoshi-P himself, I was speaking regarding the entire team.

I was going to avoid replying to my own thread towards the opposition because most of it is seriously the most ignorant pile of crap I've heard in a while, but okay.

Karoshi (the term for what is happening) is a serious problem there. You make it seem trivial, and it might seem somewhat trivial to more western cultures. Hell, I am a multimedia director. I can be up for several days straight from work, but that's generally only when it comes to crunch time. In this case, it's every single week of the year.

A Japanese graphic designer, 23 years old, more than happy with her job, died suddenly from a brain aneurysm. Reason, stress from overworking.

In 2008, a company was sued ¥200,000,000 for overworking an employee into a coma.

People are not invincible. It does not matter how much he's being paid or what his job is, he's still a person and so is everyone else on the team. I am not a babysitter by posting this. This is a problem a lot of people underestimate or do not even know exists. Yet still, a great deal of you forum posters just wanna sit around in the comfort of your own home, complaining about a game you're not even paying monthly for while you gobble down your food, and not even remotely grasp the concept that it's not robots that are making this stuff.

Also, for the record, I personally know someone who has died from this. It was an artist, a 28 year old mother. It exists.

some people rally have lots of spare time.

Another side of the English-speaking FFXIV forum community. Alas.

Both my bosses work 80 hour shifts each week (sometimes working 30 hours in a row). They don't get paid millions to do a dream job. I find it hard to sympathise for poor Yoshi with his dream job and large salary. Just saying.

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Originally Posted by Travesty

No, it's not wrong to worry about people. But it's silly to worry about people that don't need worrying about and can completely and totally take care of themselves. If you honestly think that he's gonna DIE from being overworked, you must not think much of his ability to take care of himself. If it were me being talked about the way the OP is talking about him, I'd feel insulted. He's a grown-ass man. He can take care of himself. Fawning over his health on a message board is ridiculous and embarrassing.

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tldr: Grown men aren't suddenly responsible just because they reach a certain age or have a certain income. And it's the SE staff and moderators that we're concerned about and want to show appreciation for.

Extended: Maybe this is where the cultural differences come into play. Your assumption and others, that grown men should be able to take care of themselves. That would be a lovely world. But that's not the world we live in.

Grown men (or women) can have addictions, be abusive, be violent, greedy bastards, stalkers, don't know when to eat, sleep, stop drinking, etc. list goes on. They aren't suddenly responsible for themselves just because they reach a certain age or have a certain level of income.

Some folks are dutybound to their professions may even sleep under their damn desks, in coffin-like hotels, or trailers away from their families for weeks at a time. Maybe they relieve themselves by smoking, heavy drinking after work, or fighting each other in a parking lot that they're not supposed to talk about. They're adults. They may get used to this lifestyle, but that doesn't mean it's healthy for them in the long run. edit1: There can certainly be ups to a job, at times you can love it. There can be downs, and dealing with the community like this shouldn't be one of those downs. But as one of the faces of FFXIV, you will not see him lash out at the community. He shouldn't have to. Neither should he feel harrassed by us the way we've been harrassing each other in these threads. /edit1

Over the course of time, whether you're a friend, a relative, a colleague, a parent, a child, or a consumer, when these "grown men" open themselves up, people with some empathy start to care. Steve Jobbs didn't know half the people that mourned his loss. He was a grown man, making X amounts of money, and people still worried about his health. Some of us just want to show our appreciation for the team that is bringing about one of our pasttimes and with the communication that Yoshi-P, Bayohne, Rukkiri, Reinhart (he may not be SE staff, but I still worry about his subligar sometimes) and other folks without getting harped on by less sensitive, less empathetic, and less tactful members of the community.

This post isn't directed solely at you Traversty or Bearforce. Without context, my posts seem to get ignored and your post seems to summarize a good chunk of the people that I'm expressing this post about.

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Originally Posted by ellohwell

Both my bosses work 80 hour shifts each week (sometimes working 30 hours in a row). They don't get paid millions to do a dream job. I find it hard to sympathise for poor Yoshi with his dream job and large salary. Just saying.

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You'd be surprised how much game devs actually make.

Hint: It's not as much as you assume.

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Originally Posted by Teakwood

I would totally be up for contributing to some kind of care package for the entire development team as a show of support from the NA (or just general) fan base. I'm just not sure how you'd actually -do- that / what legal issues might be involved.

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Should send him cigarettes and coffee. Pretty sure those are legal in Japan, and as long as it stays within the amounts acceptable as gifts there should be no issues. Might even be able to order them delivered from within the country.

Donate some ¥$¥$¥$ to him for a lap dance & roll em a fatty.

Is this thread serious ?

To the OP:

I often worry about Yoshida-san's health. A person can't live long without proper sleep. I wish he would take better care of himself! Not for us or the game.. but for his health!

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Yoshida-san please take better care of yourself! We love you and want to see you around for a long time!

Edit: I worry about the rest of the dev team too. I bet there are a bunch there who don't get enough rest. Just, Yoshi-P states it quite clearly that he only gets 3 hours sometimes. :x

To everyone in SE: Take care of yourselves! That warning we have to click yes to when we log on the game, about not forgetting about friends, family, food, water, sleep... That applies to you too!!

This idea that Japan is the only place where stressful jobs manned by workaholics and that the American equivalent is sitting on our fat asses and eating is a major insult to Americans and also a view that a doubt any Japanese or American person in a high level business position adopt. Because you are not a hard working American you might believe that this is ok to do, But many of us work on frantic ~18 hour a day schedules and resent being reduced to fat lazy people.


Yoshi-P is not a slave; he chooses to put his manic energies into the thing he loves. He is also an adult how can choose to stop working at the pace he is at whenever he wants. He is not a slave of his society to be pitied, he is a man trying to apply his talent and energies to do something great with the time he has on this planet and being able to transform a failed MMO to a world-leading MMO would truly be unprecedented. We should look up to that.

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Originally Posted by Celtodeno

This idea that Japan is the only place where stressful jobs manned by workaholics and that the American equivalent is sitting on our fat asses and eating is a major insult to Americans and also a view that a doubt any Japanese or American person in a high level business position adopt. Because you are not a hard working American you might believe that this is ok to do, But many of us work on frantic ~18 hour a day schedules and resent being reduced to fat lazy people.


Yoshi-P is not a slave; he chooses to put his manic energies into the thing he loves. He is also an adult how can choose to stop working at the pace he is at whenever he wants. He is not a slave of his society to be pitied, he is a man trying to apply his talent and energies to do something great with the time he has on this planet and being able to transform a failed MMO to a world-leading MMO would truly be unprecedented. We should look up to that.

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I don't think anyone is pitying him.. O.o We just wish he'd rest a bit more. We know he's doing what he loves and can make his own decisions. And he's deciding to work extremely hard. Of course we respect that. But because we respect and love him, we wish he'd take more time to sleep and rest.

I remember the last few videos and pictures of Tanaka-san I saw, (before he stepped down I mean), he looked like he was going to fall over at any second. He didn't even look like he was in the same world as us - looked like he was zoning out. He looked like he could barely think. I felt horrible for him. He looked like he felt terrible.
I worry the same with happen to Yoshida-san. You can love what you do and do it so much that you neglect yourself. I've done it in the past too.. it's not healthy. You get sick.

Every time I see a picture or video of Yoshida-san, I ask myself, "Does he look like he's getting enough rest, or does he look half-dead?" I wanna see him happy and healthy looking.

Seriously people, you're all very cute with your concerns for Yoshi's health, but really... You think that producers/directors are the only one working themselves to death on this industry? Well think again!

PMs, APMs, lead devs, programmers, artists, localizers, QAers, hell even freaking CMs! We *all* work double, triple shifts and more when it is required, and believe me it is required often when you have offices on several continents with the development being done 5,000 miles away from the project management - not an uncommon situation in this time and age.

I am no director or producer, but I've done that infamous 40 hours marathon Yoshi mentioned on a few occasions, and shorter ones on many, many more occasions - sleeping on a folding bed near my desk for 3 or 4 hours to start working again at 6 am and then go on for another 12~14 hours until I collapse. Hint: I do not work in Japan, and I do not work in the US either! Doesn't matter where you work, if you work in this industry you work a lot, period.

To those who are going to answer that this is basically a nearly never-ending crunch for them, that is true, and it's not uncommon at all in the industry - but I don't think anyone started a thread about the poor guys at Team Bondi for instance. This guy sure works a lot, it's respectable, but many are working just as much under him and don't make even a tenth of what he's making, please think about them too.

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Originally Posted by Rjain

These guys are literally putting their lives on the line to give you a pleasant entertainment experience.

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That's a bit of a silly statement isn't it.

Would a police officer, soldier or firefighter care to join in this junction?

Lots of people work hard mate. It's their choice.

Some don't have a choice, it's those guys we should worry about instead.

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Originally Posted by Celtodeno

This idea that Japan is the only place where stressful jobs manned by workaholics and that the American equivalent is sitting on our fat asses and eating is a major insult to Americans and also a view that a doubt any Japanese or American person in a high level business position adopt. Because you are not a hard working American you might believe that this is ok to do, But many of us work on frantic ~18 hour a day schedules and resent being reduced to fat lazy people.


Yoshi-P is not a slave; he chooses to put his manic energies into the thing he loves. He is also an adult how can choose to stop working at the pace he is at whenever he wants. He is not a slave of his society to be pitied, he is a man trying to apply his talent and energies to do something great with the time he has on this planet and being able to transform a failed MMO to a world-leading MMO would truly be unprecedented. We should look up to that.

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This, but replace America with London. Add rain.

It's OK, I'm sure he takes plenty care of himself with lots of saki and hook... Oh wait, there might be kids here.

I mean, I'm sure he takes his vitamins and does daily cardio.

This whole conversation is becoming completely ridiculous. These are not guys in danger of death working in some mine. They're game developers with a hefty, but completely manageable workload. They're also not your parents/kids/family/friends/associates. In fact you barely know them. In fact, barely is being generous.

Some of the comments here, like "I want to see him happy and healthy looking" are just fucking creepy and stalkerish/cultish. That sounds like a damn Beneful commercial.

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Originally Posted by Travesty

This whole conversation is becoming completely ridiculous. These are not guys in danger of death working in some mine. They're game developers with a hefty, but completely manageable workload. They're also not your parents/kids/family/friends/associates. In fact you barely know them. In fact, barely is being generous.

Some of the comments here, like "I want to see him happy and healthy looking" are just fucking creepy and stalkerish/cultish. That sounds like a damn Beneful commercial.

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Yay, sence!

he's traveling so i'm assuming he's sleeping and having fun overseas

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Originally Posted by Ewenn

Seriously people, you're all very cute with your concerns for Yoshi's health, but really... You think that producers/directors are the only one working themselves to death on this industry? Well think again!

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Good job reading.

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Originally Posted by Rjain

Good job reading.

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Good job trolling. ROUND AND ROUND WE GO <3

you know i read this entire thread. and firstly you know what when you have a community such as this its probably nice to know at least others are thinking of others in the community. it probably happens on a smaller level in LS's if someone had problems people would help in what way they could [ advice or guidance or a laugh]

i think this is a nice thread. maybe not totally bonkers but yoshi will probably read it and understand you think of him at least sometimes and understand he has a stressful job

but he is a grown man and he will be just fine. and probably end up a final fantasy god after 2.0 goes live.

i think its great that considering all the negativity around here lately the human spirit still shining through at least a little bit

:)

I'm gonna work full time this weekend. Please give me good wishes too.

;_;

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Originally Posted by AdvancedWind

I'm gonna work full time this weekend. Please give me good wishes too.

;_;

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Want a care package? LOL

Admire his hardworking attitude, don't patronize him as if he's a delicate flower who will wilt if the wind blows the wrong way. Yes, there have been deaths from overworking. The vast majority of the world's population that overworks themselves do not die. He's more likely to die from his caffeine and cigarette habit than overworking, and this is from someone who has done both. I've worked retail, I've worked in a hospital, and honestly, getting off at 10pm after a 12 hour shift and having to come back at 5am when you live an hour away doesn't leave time for sleep a lot of times. Many of us have pulled 16+ hour shifts, many of us have worked two or three days in a row with no sleep, and many of us have worked for around 30 days straight with maybe a day or two off after that stretch. Yet we're all still here.

Be grateful he's working on the game, he obviously loves his work and he has his eye on making a name for himself since he took on this monumental task. Showing appreciation to a man you don't know, but admire the hardworking nature of is considered appropriate. Buying gifts for a man you do not know is typically considered a bit odd.

I'm sure this will be taken the wrong way completely, just like everyone else stating that there are plenty of other people, who most people seem oblivious to since it's outside of their personal life, who -should- be looked at with much greater admiration than Yoshi. He should be recognized for his hard work, but anything else outside of treating him like you would any other person working just as hard comes off as very fake, or very naive.

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Originally Posted by Shipp

Many of us have pulled 16+ hour shifts, many of us have worked two or three days in a row with no sleep, and many of us have worked for around 30 days straight with maybe a day or two off after that stretch. Yet we're all still here.

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-Shudders- Capitalism is just plain evil when your superiors are making you slave like this. It's not natural...it's not right. The ironic part in this is that if any of us want to be active participants in the world Square-Enix is making, we have to be a part of that machine and fuel it as well...Yeesh...

lololol the start of your post and talkin bout the peeps more worried bout how big their breast was, made me think u was onto somthing. but then i read the rest of the crap u posted. lol ur as bad as the other fanboys are you trying to earn some kinda browny points u buttkissing sheep? seriously i think u made this post just so i can troll u lol. i even like the guy but this dude has not worked hard a day in his life, let him come to work with me 1 day and he will wish he was back in jap. playing with video games all day for a living.

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Originally Posted by stoned

lololol the start of your post and talkin bout the peeps more worried bout how big their breast was, made me think u was onto somthing. but then i read the rest of the crap u posted. lol ur as bad as the other fanboys are you trying to earn some kinda browny points u buttkissing sheep? seriously i think u made this post just so i can troll u lol. i even like the guy but this dude has not worked hard a day in his life, let him come to work with me 1 day and he will wish he was back in jap. playing with video games all day for a living.

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So much wrong with this post. I've been in the UK, US and Japan, I can safely say, for the most part, Japanese are a lot harder working than the other nations I've been to, but maybe that was just isolated to how California was.

Oh, btw, in game development, you don't "play games all day", especially as a director and producer. That would indeed be nice.

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Originally Posted by stoned

lololol the start of your post and talkin bout the peeps more worried bout how big their breast was, made me think u was onto somthing. but then i read the rest of the crap u posted. lol ur as bad as the other fanboys are you trying to earn some kinda browny points u buttkissing sheep? seriously i think u made this post just so i can troll u lol. i even like the guy but this dude has not worked hard a day in his life, let him come to work with me 1 day and he will wish he was back in jap. playing with video games all day for a living.

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Baa baa black sheep, have you any wool?

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Cause I sure as hell haven't. Where are all the Karakul?

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Originally Posted by stoned

lololol the start of your post and talkin bout the peeps more worried bout how big their breast was, made me think u was onto somthing. but then i read the rest of the crap u posted. lol ur as bad as the other fanboys are you trying to earn some kinda browny points u buttkissing sheep? seriously i think u made this post just so i can troll u lol. i even like the guy but this dude has not worked hard a day in his life, let him come to work with me 1 day and he will wish he was back in jap. playing with video games all day for a living.

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Yup, since you know what his job is like.

Lol who keeps letting this guy post?

people really need to stop this baby stuff..... these are grown men/women and I think they can take care of themselves, it is called work, everyone does it (well every abled person should that is)

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

people really need to stop this baby stuff..... these are grown men/women and I think they can take care of themselves, it is called work, everyone does it (well every abled person should that is)

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Yoshida is simply someone they can't lose right now. He is the icon for the whole rebuilding process.

As some random japanese I don't care about him personally. I just want the game to succeed, and for that reason I hope that he doesn't overdo it.

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Originally Posted by Alerith

Baa baa black sheep, have you any wool?

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Cause I sure as hell haven't. Where are all the Karakul?

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I have no clue why this made me laugh so hard, but it did.

Anyway, this thread is kind of amusing with all the back and forth. I think it's really nice that people are concerned with YoshiP and the whole team's health, and are compassionate enough to worry about them, but I also understand the people who are saying "they're fine/adults, don't worry". I think just letting YoshiP know you're really thankful for what he's doing is probably enough, to be honest.