Saving Limit Breaks as a coup de grâce is stupid.

One time I didn't LB until 5% because I was dodging a tornado. Luckily I can use my moves while moving. I can't LB and move so it's gonna have to wait a sec. An no it just finished filling at 10%

I tend to pop them quite early. Sooner it's popped sooner boss hp gets down to 20% sooner people can use assassinate, misery's end, mercy stroke all those kind of skills.

I think another reason you might see people use it as a finisher often is it's a general idea when you're struggling in a fight. To put the maximum amount of damage during the hardest phase.

Whether that's taking out Haukke manor hards final boss big add cuz your dPS is lacking. Or during the final phase of a tough fight. If you feel a wipe might happen dPS will save it for kill blow incase healer needs it.

And their mentality just carries over to the easy content where such precautions aren't necessary.

http://s22.postimg.org/yfycf3l8x/ffx...015_053743.png

The answer to this thread, like so many others, is that people really just are that stupid.

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Originally Posted by Takfloyd

The answer to this thread, like so many others, is that people really just are that stupid.

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Yeah the same thing happend to me more then once so when i use LB than only while the boss is at 5% and no one else does.

I think the mentality is that no one wants to waste the LB. They want to be sure the group will be successful after the LB is used. Happened with the 2nd boss in the Vault the other day where a DPS used a LB, we got it down to 1% and wiped. That's probably the kind of situation people want to avoid.

I always caster LB the second set of adds during Boogeyman fight of AK (HM) whether we need to or not... Cause why wait? Lol

LB2 is a myth in most dungeon runs anyway. Optimal usage is probably on the second boss if a caster hasn't used it on trash yet. I like to use it on the second honeycomb wall in Arboretum so we can ignore those bees and slide down quickly, but you'll still get yelled at every now and then for that too - "LB IS FOR TEH BOZZ!"

I don't know, people are weird. I remember using melee LB1 on the last boss in a newbie dungeon once when he was at like 20% because there was no way we were going to reach LB2 before it died. Anyway it got got him down to like 5% and for some reason the tank lost his shit because "LB2 only".

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Originally Posted by ChameleonMS

You are correct, the damage is calculation of the average iLevel of the group. It ignore all de-buffs and buffs. Since it is constant, the weakest DPS of a particular type (melee, range, caster) should always be the one to activate the correct one for the situation.

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Incorrect, TA increases the damage taken, not the damage done. Therefore, the LB dmg will be increases.
If you compare Boss HP, LB with TA is actually ~10% more LB dmg than LB without TA.
Always time your LB with TA.
We tested it thoroughly on ThordanEX. (Well, 10 different scenario, those with TA were hitting harder).
Until I find hard evidence that disproves our findings, I'll have to rely on what we found.

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Originally Posted by Tarta

We tested it thoroughly on ThordanEX. (Well, 10 different scenario, those with TA were hitting harder).
Until I find hard evidence that disproves our findings, I'll have to rely on what we found.

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My statement was based on research done in the past: Citation

Further research, re-affirms your results
Citation 1
Citation 2

As you can see, this has been debated before:
Confusing research

Do you happen to have parse logs with the different trials recorded. Could you post them for a more definitive answer? I play on PS4, thus, cannot generate my own parse log research.

I was fighting for the same thing on a dungeon the other day so i said "hey im gonna give them a lesson" i used healer lb on trash and got kicked xD

But yeah people doesnt understand is faster to use lb asap cause its also gonna fill again but meh

Only time I think it is wise to save LB is when you know it's going to be a rough fight, or things seem to be bumpy from the start. Happened last night in my (disastrous) runs of A8 where the DPS were using LB3 on the boss's final form before he hit 50% (even before then, things were rough), and like... less than a minute later, shit hit the fan and a healer LB3 could have saved us and allowed us to clear. In instances like that, I normally advocate for saving DPS LB3 for the last 20-15%.

If it's a trivial fight, though, or the group is managing just fine with absolutely zero problems, then sure, use that LB as soon as it fills. Or before, if it looks like the boss might die before the gauge fills. Or if you just feel like blowing shit up.

LB is a skill, and skills are supposed to be used. So use it. Though I do enjoy when groups neglect to use it and I get to blow it after the boss dies with my healer/tank LB... Especially if I get to use my AST's LB3~. So pretty.

The only time I found it necessary to use Tank LB2 in Thordan EX was when we made it to the final phase where everyone starts taking massive bursts of raid-wide aoe damage. (I don't know the name of the move, but its the part where you screen flashes white a lot) Seconds before everyone began to take damage, I started to panic, noticing both our healers having rougly 15% mana left. Our 2 DPS had weakness and were just raised, and the other 2 DPS have 50% HP left.

I would say this is a fine time to use a Tank LB. Nobody died durning the chaos of that phase...but we slowly wiped after sacred cross burning Thordan down from 4% to 1%. A Truly disappointing wipe, but something to learn from.

Kinda on topic I remember using a melee level 2 limit on the last boss in Anti Tower when Calcabrina was at 50% a healer asked me why I wasted the limit halfway though the fight.
What difference does it make if I use it at the start, middle or end? The fight is not going to go any faster if I used it at the end. I'm dealing the same damage.

People goes by the logic that most bosses by the end of the fight the party might be lacking resources, people might be dying or dead, the healer might be having a hard time to heal, the bursts are all gone, the tank is asperging, etc.
They hold to the end so the boss don't start a new wave of AoE or use any kind of skill that might takes a bit longer to kill him, to assure the party won't be wiped by whatever reason, holding the Limit Break until the dead is reasonable common sense when your party is having a hard time.
But if you're in a rather easy dungeon, whatever man, it's stupid for both sides for be angry when you should use LB when the boss is going to die even if you hand your keyboard to your grandma.

Been farming Bis Ex last few days and I noticed that some groups would use the LB on the snake things in order to get past that part if it was a close call. Then one group that kept just barely not making it past that part I suggested using the LB and the tank was like "NO! You only use LB on the end! No one uses limit break before then" when I said some of my previous groups used it he was still acting skeptical about using it on that part and we ended up wiping one more time and the group fell apart because someone had already stated that that was their last attempt. So in the end, if you know you are going to fail if you don't use it, why not just use it? Maybe I should have just hit that shiny button, but I didn't want to get yelled at xD

My personal view is on normal duns anyone use if its full, it doesn't make much difference anyway and I don't want to drop BotD. Better a caster uses it on trash pulls or a ranged.

On stuff like A8 that people are still learning I say wait a bit to see how the group is doing. And don't yell at me to LB. If the group is doing badly but not enough that we needed healer LB3 I (or another melee) will use it when we don't have a nigh certain chance of dying to mechanics because of animation lock. Still its only my opinion and I am certainly no expert or even that experienced I'm sure.

As a dragoon, here are the reasons I might be sitting on a full LB bar:

1. I forgot it's there. Either it's a tough fight and I'm focusing on my rotation and mechanics, or it's a snoozefest roulette and I'm distracted by FC chat. I didn't notice that chime when the LB filled all the way.
2. I'm waiting for a safe time to use it when I know the boss isn't going to jump/throw out huge AoEs/go invulnerable.
3. Saving it for healer or ranged/caster, if needed.

As a sometimes healer and sometimes tank, I love it when casters lb on huge trash pulls, but best if they let the group know they're doing it in advance.

Monk:
- i wont use lb as soon as its up if im unsure the next mechanic is around the corner to hit me badly
- i wont use lb as soon as its up if i just popped my buffs for burst, can still do so after
- i wont use lb after that because the boss is at 8 percent already and once the lb hits, at 2 (which i wouldve taken faster by dpsin)
- i wont use lb in alex, ravex or other stuff early if its a mediocre/subpar group that might or might not need heal lb
- i might prefer to keep my stacks up in some cases
- lately i found myself hoping for the other melee in i190s to lb, since i assume it does the same dmg and he misses out on less dps than me in 220s. No clue if these assumptions hold any value, but they are in my head ^^
- list goes on for hours
...
- i wont use lb just cause someone says so, unless i feel hes right and appreciate the reminder cuz i slept (many unwelcome lb calls are being made tho)
- i like cast lb on trash and big pulls. Absolutely love the combination of both. I hardly ever find myself unhappy with others lbing, unless it was obvious we would need heal lb n some guy wastes it just before that very moment
...
- lb doesnt matter all that much to me, and the thought behind using it at the killing point is "meh whatever, its over, gg cya"
- having said all that, its not like i never lbd the 2nd boss or anything, no im not concerned about wether we have 3 bars at the final boss "in time"
...

-> If you have no idea of what the other end is doing and why (like being tank only or 23/7), please dont tell them what to do.
-> Try to be emphatic if you can (having spent enough time on melee-dps-lb-go-to-guy yourself), and since it doesnt even matter, relax. If it bothers u that much you are sitting on an lb in the end, give com to sb else, i know i wouldve been your favorite choice if only it wasnt for that dang lb.

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Originally Posted by Rina_Leonhart

Been farming Bis Ex last few days and I noticed that some groups would use the LB on the snake things in order to get past that part if it was a close call. Then one group that kept just barely not making it past that part I suggested using the LB and the tank was like "NO! You only use LB on the end! No one uses limit break before then" when I said some of my previous groups used it he was still acting skeptical about using it on that part and we ended up wiping one more time and the group fell apart because someone had already stated that that was their last attempt. So in the end, if you know you are going to fail if you don't use it, why not just use it? Maybe I should have just hit that shiny button, but I didn't want to get yelled at xD

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In fairness, Bismarck EX is a meta DPS check, and while it might had helped you get pas the Sanuwa phase, if people are having trouble with that then they might be unable to finish the boss off.

Then again, my experiences farming Moby Dick with LBs tend to have them use not enough at the end to kill the boss (quite unlike most of my usual witnesses of LBs in dungeons) but enough to make the killing off easier

On the other hand, that's usually on the 3rd time Moby Dick's been snared, and the fight allows several opportunities to kill the Corona before he feasts on the island. But I can see why people would complain about using LB early in that case.

In general. I think the idea of using LBs only at the last boss comes from a massive epidemic of paranoia, people tend to be cynical when using Duty Finder, expecting sub-par DPS, Healers on Netflix and Tanks that die to a stiff breeze. But even then in most cases players are overgeared to the point where it becomes redundant to bosses in general, this coupled with with the damage offering an illusion that the dungeon will end sooner leads to people conserving the Limit Break even thought it serves no purpose outside of maybe Balmung RP parties (and even then, I don't think they would consciously put RP over getting runs done faster). But then again because of the LB being rendered moot, I don't really care if it gets used or not, let alone when.

EDIT: ironically after I made this post, I say myself asking about LB use/timing more often

Well as long as you don't wait too long it isn't really going to matter whether or not you LB it at 100% or 50%, the LB doesn't lower their resistances to anything so it's essentially the same as casting a stronger Heavy Shot at it. You're not really "wasting" damage unless you wait until the LB would do more damage than health it currently has.


I usually wait till the boss is at 15% before I use my LB, but this is mainly to make sure that the Melee DPS (I main Bard) isn't going to use theirs, and at that point I might as well go for it.

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Originally Posted by Delorean

they might just be focusing on something else and notice it late

its not like it will build back up to lb1, and even if it does it doesn't do much. it doesn't really matter.

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This is my issue on MNK, I'm usually paying attention to my hotbar and rotation and sometimes not hear the chime that the bars are full.

Though first bosses I have been scolded for using it. And always thought it was a general no-no to use on second boss because you won't have a full bar by the last boss (moreso if your party wide DPS is so high it burns down super fast, like on few occasions.)

LB delivers an attack that makes the target's HP go down faster than the other abilities on your hotbar that make the target's HP go down.

That's it.

I dream that casters/rangers will one day use LB1 on mass pulls at the earliest opportunity--more damage to the targets, less damage to the tank, completes the pull more quickly, conserves cooldowns for everybody, saves TP and doesn't lock melee DPS in a combo-free containment zone for 8 seconds.

I am still very new to the game, but when I read up on limit breaks, my impression of them was to use them when it is called for by the tank (or other party leader) since it is not an individual action. Obviously, at the time I had no idea how dungeon runs go in this game, how LB mechanics work, or the rate of use which is considered the norm.

Now that I am a little more acquainted, saving it to overkill the boss' last sliver of health is definitely a waste. However, I am still not sure LB's were designed to make dungeon runs go faster, OIOW increase dps. In either case I can sure in hell tell you that dps is going to go WAY down if you are arguing amongst your comrades about how to use the LB. I would probably kick myself from a party with members gouging each other's eyes out about it.

I've been seeing the term for this particular behavior be called a "Anime Finisher" on my server, don't know if it's new but I found it funny since that's pretty much what people are thinking 99% of the time they use it on the last percentage and they don't even finish the animation before the boss is killed. I can just imagine all the Kirito's now shouting over their keyboards their special finishing moves name.

Well I think I might beg beginning to care a little about LB use. But there are still cases from before this thread where I prefer the LB in specific cases.

• Pharos Sirius (Hard): The room with 3 Incubators. Tank mass pulls everything, and in the interest of not having to deal with more than one Rock monster I use Skyshard at the last incubator when the Mobs are bunched together
• Snowcloak: don't know why, but whenever I got into speedruns there I win up using Skyshard on a large group before the Yeti
• Praetorian an Halatali (Hard): LB pulling essentially.

And all this bickering would end, if we all had our own separate LB gauges.

I'm still definitely learning the best timing on my Dragoon. I try to wait for both gauges to fill and bust out a level 2 asap. However on some old content the boss dies before then =/
On tank if the boss hits 5% (on a 4 man dungeon) and nobody will lb, I will for fun.

I love it when melees try to wait until the boss is at 5%. I usually outspeed them and cast mine. And all of the sudden they feel blessed by my so-powerful-healer LB2.

"Too late buddy, way too late".

To chime in on this, I usually tend to forget the lb bar has filled up (doesn't help I play on controller and my primary hotbar has absolutely no space for the LB skill :/), since most of the content I'm doing doesn't really require popping a lb early (well, aside from lvl60 stuff, but I usually have a BLM in the party so AoE is good enough).

That said, I feel like some lb's are really underused. I think that the amount of times I've used the lvl3 Bard lb is like 4 times, in my nearly 6 months of playing. It looks really cool, but people prefer loldragoon lvl3's...

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Originally Posted by Tracewood

Though first bosses I have been scolded for using it. And always thought it was a general no-no to use on second boss because you won't have a full bar by the last boss (moreso if your party wide DPS is so high it burns down super fast, like on few occasions.)

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I find it funny that DPS is so fast at times the LB barely builds up much, so people get scolded. Well, if the DPS is so good, did you really need that LB?

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Originally Posted by LordNickage

On tank if the boss hits 5% (on a 4 man dungeon) and nobody will lb, I will for fun.

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Heck I do it at that or a tad less on 8 mans too.

Because...

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Originally Posted by cgbspender

"Too late buddy, way too late".

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And the new Tank LB3s look awesome.

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Originally Posted by The_Shang

To chime in on this, I usually tend to forget the lb bar has filled up (doesn't help I play on controller and my primary hotbar has absolutely no space for the LB skill :/), since most of the content I'm doing doesn't really require popping a lb early (well, aside from lvl60 stuff, but I usually have a BLM in the party so AoE is good enough).

That said, I feel like some lb's are really underused. I think that the amount of times I've used the lvl3 Bard lb is like 4 times, in my nearly 6 months of playing. It looks really cool, but people prefer loldragoon lvl3's...

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Because loldragoon/melee does a lot more damage to a single target than any aoe LB

From my experience bard level 3 did as much damage as a DRG level 2.

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Originally Posted by Echoloc

Because loldragoon/melee does a lot more damage to a single target than any aoe LB

From my experience bard level 3 did as much damage as a DRG level 2.

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Oh, I know that. Still, it feels like anything other than a single target lb (aside from a few cases) are just novelties.

I mean, when did you *really* need a tank lb or an AoE lb on bosses?*

*I'm saying this because I've only been playing for 6 months and have never, ever seen this happen (aside for a few rare cases where the dps weren't melee).

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Originally Posted by The_Shang

I mean, when did you *really* need a tank lb or an AoE lb on bosses?*

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Tank LB on Ultima HM's last Aetheric Boom was pretty standard practice. I've also used it in a few situations where a boss's ultimate attack does a ton of damage if the mechanics are messed up without it being enough to make it an auto-wipe (Garuda EX if someone kills the spiny plume early and Cloud of Darkness if she builds up too many stacks in the inhale phase.) But yeah, overall pretty limited.

I'll always jump at the chance to pop the LB after the last boss fight is over when I'm tanking.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I am still very new to the game, but when I read up on limit breaks, my impression of them was to use them when it is called for by the tank (or other party leader) since it is not an individual action. Obviously, at the time I had no idea how dungeon runs go in this game, how LB mechanics work, or the rate of use which is considered the norm.

Now that I am a little more acquainted, saving it to overkill the boss' last sliver of health is definitely a waste. However, I am still not sure LB's were designed to make dungeon runs go faster, OIOW increase dps. In either case I can sure in hell tell you that dps is going to go WAY down if you are arguing amongst your comrades about how to use the LB. I would probably kick myself from a party with members gouging each other's eyes out about it.

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Perhaps not, but would you rather have 2-3 LBs per run or just the 1? I've been using melee LB on bosses and trash alike for as long as I've had my DRG . Same deal with Bard on trash, assuming the Tank pulled more than just three enemies. In all that time, I've dealt with maybe two comments in total, albeit passive ones.

One was something along the lines of "????" when I used it on the Treant in Amdapor Keep(HM) due to the fact that LB would not build back up in time if I waited until the second boss. I calmly explained that to them so they might know better for the future. They never contested it.

Another time was during a larger trash pull in The Vault. I think the Tank said something like "lol was a lb just used on trash?". Albeit that was it. He didn't comment on the matter that LB easily refilled before the final boss once more.


Personally, I'm not really that fussed about DPS. I'm happy to stop for a few seconds to answer things in a linkshell or anything during a fight so it's not like I care if the benefits of the damage increase are nullified by me stopping to explain myself once a year to people who think it can only be used once per run. It just annoys me a little to see it go unused. It'd be like deliberately ignoring one of your GCDs for an entire run just because. I'd never comment on it of course, but the seldom time that it is used(when I am a Tank and can't do so myself), I appreciate it.

Personally I don't when or were its used in a dungeon, only times I've seen it a nessesity to hold it would be if the boss have a "point of no Rageturn". thou there have been the few times were no one used it t all & we lost the healer mid-end battle of last boss & it was used to give us a clear rather than a horrid war of attrition trying to live long enouf (few times but memorable great LB uses) causality is many things but it never is u'r friend

In my case it generally happens because I'm a healer main so I dont always remember it when I am a dps

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Originally Posted by cgbspender

I love it when melees try to wait until the boss is at 5%. I usually outspeed them and cast mine. And all of the sudden they feel blessed by my so-powerful-healer LB2.

"Too late buddy, way too late".

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Haha I love this xD

BLMs and SMNs that limit break big trash pulls get all my commends.

Melee that wait till 5% find that I fatfinger my tank LB. :3

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

BLMs and SMNs that limit break big trash pulls get all my commends.

Melee that wait till 5% find that I fatfinger my tank LB. :3

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This is the true spirit ! You can never tell when a wipe is gonna stab you in the back !