Required Class/Rank failed - Can we have Optimal Rank and Favoured Class back?

Most appropriate user name for this horrible topic.

The problem is that in making the new system they did not implement enough new armor to make up for the change.

So there's barely any choices and sometimes you are left wearing armor 10-15 levels below you because there is nothing else.

Really this is just a result of yet another poor implementation in this game.

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Originally Posted by Quesse

The problem is that in making the new system they did not implement enough new armor to make up for the change.

So there's barely any choices and sometimes you are left wearing armor 10-15 levels below you because there is nothing else.

Really this is just a result of yet another poor implementation in this game.

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It's not a result of poor implementation, it's a result of oversight and not realising a good thing when they had it.

i agree with the op to an extent. i hate being in a big party and someone ask for quick repairs and me say ok i'll get it real fast for you and equip a hammer to repair them quickly and then all my gear drops. i make the repair and then have to completely gear back up. i'm to the point i don't do it in a party anymore because of that reason. i just tell them before we go anywhere that anyone that's close to needing repairs put them up before we go in and i take care of them all at once.

we did need some restrictions though. i agree with the devs there though.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

i agree with the op to an extent. i hate being in a big party and someone ask for quick repairs and me say ok i'll get it real fast for you and equip a hammer to repair them quickly and then all my gear drops. i make the repair and then have to completely gear back up. i'm to the point i don't do it in a party anymore because of that reason. i just tell them before we go anywhere that anyone that's close to needing repairs put them up before we go in and i take care of them all at once.

we did need some restrictions though. i agree with the devs there though.

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Some short while ago, a player advertised in shout for a materia attachment. They offered 50k for it and I had just swapped class and geared up. I thought about swapping back and doing the materia for them, but I literally couldn't be bothered to have to gear up all over again for a measley 50k, so I let them keep shouting.

It is actually really annoying for this reason alone.

If you also consider the fact that it limits people's ability to roleplay and dressup (which is the primary gameplay mechanic in this game at the moment!), then it's even worse.

If you consider the fact that the Optimal rank system (along with the favoured Class system) was a mechanic which was progressive for an MMO and setting a trend for future mmos (such as SW:TOR and Blade and Soul which also dont have heavily restrictive gearsets), then again, removal of this system is even worse.

Not seen this one out yet, but just gonna throw this thorey out there.

Is there just a tiny possbility this is another Gifthorse alt? Just a guess they seen to troll just as much.

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Originally Posted by Delsus

Not seen this one out yet, but just gonna throw this thorey out there.

Is there just a tiny possbility this is another Gifthorse alt? Just a guess they seen to troll just as much.

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How am I trolling?

By saying something is good and then elaborating as to why I think it's good?

I don't think that is called trolling. I think you'll find it's called something else entirely, e.g., constructive feedback.

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Originally Posted by ellohwell

Why shouldnt you be wearing Lvl 50 gear at Lvl 1? If it scaled appropriately, there would be no reason to wear it at lvl 1, but you would still have the option.

Im allowed to wear the gear on all my R50 classes, so ive earnt the right, and yet as soon as I equip a fry-pan I can't wear my gear anymore? You telling me everytime I cook dinner I have to strip naked? Everytime I pick up a knife, I have to strip naked?

You're crazy.

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Because then why even have any gear at all? Why not just get a single set, or just sets for aesthetics, and your stats scale regardless of what you're wearing?

You're crazy if you think making gear scale to such a high degree is a good idea.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Because then why even have any gear at all? Why not just get a single set, or just sets for aesthetics, and your stats scale regardless of what you're wearing?

You're crazy if you think making gear scale to such a high degree is a good idea.

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It doesn't have to be a linear scale.

If you're within 3 ranks it could be a close approximation to the optimal stats, and if you're upwards of 5 ranks away, then the stats should get exponentially worse. This would strongly encourage people to wear other gear, but at the same time it wouldn't be:

• Imposing rules
• Stripping them naked
• ruining their ability to play dressup
• limiting roleplay
• limiting Solo armory-system builds
• discouraging them from repairing people
• discouraging them from attaching materia for people
• frustrating them with constant gear swap-outs

Anyway, there are games where gear is entirely aesthetic and it has slots (like materia) which determine stat make-up (i.e. blade and soul), so I don't see why you act like it's beyond belief to suggest sometime far less extreme.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Because then why even have any gear at all? Why not just get a single set, or just sets for aesthetics, and your stats scale regardless of what you're wearing?

You're crazy if you think making gear scale to such a high degree is a good idea.

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Just make the scaled gear not as effective as wearing an appropriate gear, and give proper penalties (IE: High) when wearing stuff way out of the league. "We" ain't asking to wear any gear at any level and be a badass, we just are asking to be able to do things like my earlier example: To be able to do trivial activities without having to switch entire gear sets just because I changed from my level X class to my level X-5 one

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Originally Posted by ellohwell

How am I trolling?

By saying something is good and then elaborating as to why I think it's good?

I don't think that is called trolling. I think you'll find it's called something else entirely, e.g., constructive feedback.

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Well with the old system, if you were 3 levels below optimal you woul basicly get no stats, so it was effectively a required system already if you actually wanted to use the gear, but then you go on to say the dated gear is useless when the optimal things were useless unless you were the optimal level.

You then say that it is good for the economy when the main complaint of crafters was that they could not make money off low level gear, because everyone was using high level gear because they didnt know how the system worked. Also the low level players could not buy low level gear because crafters weren't making it because there was no money in it.

The only good thing about the system is the astetics and roleplaying aspect when you could equip anything, you say you want it so you can use it on any class at any level but its pretty much useless on anything but the optimal class and rank, so just use the damn dated gear, its just as much use as old gear on a class 5 levels lower than optimal.

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Originally Posted by Delsus

Well with the old system, if you were 3 levels below optimal you woul basicly get no stats, so it was effectively a required system already if you actually wanted to use the gear, but then you go on to say the dated gear is useless when the optimal things were useless unless you were the optimal level.

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1 - That's way over exaggerating. it did scale pretty well with low rank differences
2 - The dated gear have weaker stats overall, that's why they're useless.

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Originally Posted by Delsus

You then say that it is good for the economy when the main complaint of crafters was that they could not make money off low level gear, because everyone was using high level gear because they didnt know how the system worked. Also the low level players could not buy low level gear because crafters weren't making it because there was no money in it.

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And having required levels did change that fact, right?
Oh wait. No.

There's no low level gear at this point mostly because there's few low level players and few low level crafters.Also, by properly scaling up the stats (here I am, again having to emphasize this), people won't buy high level gear for low level classes.

Also, the lack of understanding of the system is due to the poor tutorials and an interface that didn't show up the stat changes, not the fault of the optimal level system itself.

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Originally Posted by Delsus

Not seen this one out yet, but just gonna throw this thorey out there.

Is there just a tiny possbility this is another Gifthorse alt? Just a guess they seen to troll just as much.

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Oh I definitely noticed it was Gifthorse yet again. No one would bring up one of these topics again from the dead like him.

Being stripped naked will be a non issue once the mannequin system is in place, one click: Bam! regeared completely!. That system is slated for when? end of 2012? sure why not, current system can't handle it, that does not mean we need to be subject to the issues we were having before which I will not state here because this is a dead topic.

Look up the Producer's view on the matter and there will be even no need for this thread. Anyway, why you needed to create another thread about this?. I expect to see another thread by you soon about how the Armoury system is being murdered, etc.

By the way, you requested this a lot in a thread. What is your view now about the vision of FFXIV? or should we expect yet another thread about there being no vision?

NO!

/10char

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Originally Posted by Delsus

Well with the old system, if you were 3 levels below optimal you woul basicly get no stats, so it was effectively a required system already if you actually wanted to use the gear, but then you go on to say the dated gear is useless when the optimal things were useless unless you were the optimal level.

You then say that it is good for the economy when the main complaint of crafters was that they could not make money off low level gear, because everyone was using high level gear because they didnt know how the system worked. Also the low level players could not buy low level gear because crafters weren't making it because there was no money in it.

The only good thing about the system is the astetics and roleplaying aspect when you could equip anything, you say you want it so you can use it on any class at any level but its pretty much useless on anything but the optimal class and rank, so just use the damn dated gear, its just as much use as old gear on a class 5 levels lower than optimal.

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but if they had taken the time to just show what the stats were when you equipped the gear on your lower case that whole issue of people not knowing would have been fixed without being required. i'll use my 43 goldsmith hammer at r41 my stats increased over my low level hammer so i switched to it. i had to research it myself, but i am one that takes the time to do so.

i do agree that the people wearing r50 gear on a r1 class all the way until cap was a bad problem, but that was more of se not scaling the gear properly to start with and that r50 gear was a better alternative almost completely til cap. i have a friend that used the mossy horn mail they got for their r50 lancer because the stats were better than their rank appropriate gear when they ranked their gladiator and marauder all the way to cap and they never once had to repair that gear.

to be honest i heard more crafters complaining about the premade gear drops off the mid level nm's than i did the few people that used a high piece of gear for another class. at least if they bought a high level piece of gear from a crafter they did buy from the wards..... getting premade gear they never purchased from anyone. why would you buy a r30 piece of gear when you can get a r25 one with better stats for free?

Finally, someone attempted to explain themselves. Now I can show you why you're wrong.

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Originally Posted by Delsus

Well with the old system, if you were 3 levels below optimal you woul basicly get no stats, so it was effectively a required system already if you actually wanted to use the gear, but then you go on to say the dated gear is useless when the optimal things were useless unless you were the optimal level.

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Whatever you're trying to say here is anyone's guess, but if what you're saying is that the optimal system has a proven track record for not working, despite having harsh penalties for wearing gear outside levels, then this is a premature conclusion because the optimal system was never really improved to the point where anyone could say it failed.

One of the biggest issues with the optimal system was that it never gave players clear information as to what the penalties were when wearing gear outside of the optimal level range. Now that the information is clearly shown on gear, players would, given the chance, gravitate toward the gear which was visibly best for them.

It is entirely speculative to assume that the optimal system would not work, because it was never given that chance.

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You then say that it is good for the economy when the main complaint of crafters was that they could not make money off low level gear, because everyone was using high level gear because they didnt know how the system worked. Also the low level players could not buy low level gear because crafters weren't making it because there was no money in it.

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Notice how you say there was both 1) a vacuum in the market for low level gear and also 2) low level crafters were not making low level gear.

You would think that if this situation was true, then low level crafters would be making the gear to fill the vacuum? The truth, however, is that there were few crafters that bother to make gear (there still are), and that's primarily because they are just ranking up (not bothering to earn money in the process) and also because historically the complicated crafting system created a financial and logistical barrier to creating low level gear for new crafters. There was just no profit margin there under the old crafting system.

Considering that the crafting system has been simplified for low level crafters, there is ample opporunity for them to make gear. Obviously by my example of not being able to by a sword under R18, it's clear that the restrictive rank system hasn't solved this issue anyway. There's obviously another factor at play (and that is the low population). It doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

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The only good thing about the system is the astetics and roleplaying aspect when you could equip anything, you say you want it so you can use it on any class at any level but its pretty much useless on anything but the optimal class and rank, so just use the damn dated gear, its just as much use as old gear on a class 5 levels lower than optimal.

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Imagine that dated gear didn't exist (which is SE's intention), then what is your suggestion? I do use dated gear for now, but what about the future? And what about for my R50 classes where dated gear isn't an option due to their inferiority?

you don't have any answers for that because the restrictive rank system doesn't provide answers for that.

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Originally Posted by Answa

Restrictions are fine. You're being whiny.

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Get stuffed.

I think it will be much easier when they add mannequins, sadly we have to wait for this, learn to deal with it.

Personally I like the new restrictions, it makes wearing gear actually worth looking forward to.

just get all your classes to 50, then don't worry about it any more. :P

Can't quite tell if this topic is serious...

Most MMO games I've ever played that have levels have always had level requirements for the gear. This is nothing new, and honestly most of the playerbase see's it s a normal thing.

The Optimal system was functional, but it wasn't ideal. When you had a level 25 GLA running around in level 50 armor, then getting their face pounded in from a lack of defense, the problem was evident.

Since the patch, I have noticed a sizable increase in player survival and performance, all due to players now actually using gear for their level.

Also, I think crafters are doing a bit better now because people are actually buying more variety in gear because of this.

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Originally Posted by Answa

I never QQ'd about it. I just don't care. It works fine and I've had no problems. I get naked when I change jobs? Fine, I'll put on other clothes. I haven't found this stressful at all. Mostly just... familiar.

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i don't mind the new restricted system. but with all the dated stuff in the wards and all this waiting for the new gear to be crafted. i think the restriction's should have waited till 1.20 to let the new stuff fill the market wards first. i have found it quite hard to find a belt for my lv and infact only found one that was not dated 2 nights ago. and i have needed it since 1.19 went live. but now the market wards are starting to fill this problem is becoming less and less

(oops didn't mean to reply with a quote that is a miss click)

Ya im glad gear is finally meaningful to your level. Leave this system alone for the most part. Only time i get annoyed is when i buy a piece of gear to look good in and i find it is required not optimal lol. but thats my own fault.

It's just a test calm down.

I've been using macros to change classes pretty much since launch, so I don't have the OP's issue of getting naked every time I switch classes. Lern2macro. They're eventually going to have gear be auto equipped when you do switch classes, so you won't even have to macro in the near future.

The "favor system" doesn't work as well as designated gear because a) it's more confusing to newbies/less streamlined or easy to explain and b) it's harder to balance for the devs. Pretty much any gear that is worth a damn is going to be class locked, because it's easier for the dev team to balance how future gear will scale.

I don't know about you, but I'm tired of looking at the wards, seeing five things that "favor" my class, and wondering what the hell I SHOULD be wearing. This applies more to DoH and DoL for me, but I have this problem with belts, shoes, and pants on my DoW and DoM classes. The "favor" system was confusing, and pointless to anybody who wants to wear gear that works for their class.

tl;dr: It's more streamlined for the devs, and easier on the users to have class/level specific gear.

Also, the OP claims that this current system doesn't work, yet I've never heard anybody complain about it aside from a handful of people on the forums, and a few RPers here and there.

I like level requirements on gear. It makes getting new gear more rewarding/exciting.

Plus, gear has always, in every MMO, been an outward expression of your level and experience with a certain class. Call me crazy, but I don't want a bunch of level 1 gladiators running around looking like level 50 gladiators. That's just dumb.

It's also good for the in-game economy.

It's WAY better now than it was. Quit being cheap and buy new gear. And get it through your head that sometimes, you will have to wear old gear until new gear is actually wearable..

You have to forgive gifthorse...

He liked the game that failed and would rather see it shut down than changed into something that can be successful in the market.

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Originally Posted by Alerith

Most MMO games I've ever played that have levels have always had level requirements for the gear. This is nothing new, and honestly most of the playerbase see's it s a normal thing.

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Gods forfend FFXIV dare have a somewhat unique feature that, if well implemented, works well and makes sense within the context of a game that encourages players leveling multiple classes and changing between them. I know we're all sorta traumatized with the whole "trying to be different" issue from the original FFXIV, but throw me a bone here.

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Originally Posted by Alerith

The Optimal system was functional, but it wasn't ideal. When you had a level 25 GLA running around in level 50 armor, then getting their face pounded in from a lack of defense, the problem was evident.

Since the patch, I have noticed a sizable increase in player survival and performance, all due to players now actually using gear for their level.

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An "evident" problem with the player, IF the UI easily displayed the penalties. Again, not a problem of the system itself, same way a level 50 player wearing a level 25 required armor isn't a "problem of requiring levels for gear"; Clearly show the penalties, and any player with more than 2 brain cells won't do that, unless he simply doesn't care about the stats.

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Originally Posted by Alerith

Also, I think crafters are doing a bit better now because people are actually buying more variety in gear because of this.

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That's something I cannot deny nor confirm, seeing as I'm not a crafter myself.

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Originally Posted by Tsuga

The "favor system" doesn't work as well as designated gear because a) it's more confusing to newbies/less streamlined or easy to explain and b) it's harder to balance for the devs. Pretty much any gear that is worth a damn is going to be class locked, because it's easier for the dev team to balance how future gear will scale.

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a) How hard can it be to grasp this simple concept: "Wear something below your optmal level, get weaker stats"? Put a simple tutorial about this, and as long as newcomers don't mash X when it pops up, they can understand .

b) I agree that more important gear should be class locked, but with the recipe revamp, pretty much EVERY gear is class required or downright useless. Is it really so hard to make a few general purpose pieces to be used when leveling multiple clases? We're (or, at least, myself) not talking about end game gear.

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Originally Posted by Tsuga

I don't know about you, but I'm tired of looking at the wards, seeing five things that "favor" my class, and wondering what the hell I SHOULD be wearing. This applies more to DoH and DoL for me, but I have this problem with belts, shoes, and pants on my DoW and DoM classes. The "favor" system was confusing, and pointless to anybody who wants to wear gear that works for their class.

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Grab the gear that gives better stats for your class / role...or is it too hard to see that between the belt with +5STR and the one with +5INT, the INT one is better for your mage? Does anyone really need to see a "Requires: Discipline of Magic" to know that?

If you want to strip the stats if I'm under level, fine. But I should at least still be able to simply wear the gear in question. I can't believe so many people are in favor of such pointless restrictions.

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

If you want to strip the stats if I'm under level, fine. But I should at least still be able to simply wear the gear in question. I can't believe so many people are in favor of such pointless restrictions.

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No!
Too many options to choose from, that confuses people!
He shouldn't be wearing L30 pants on his L27 character!
He is wearing the same gear as me after paying the same price or getting someone to craft it for him the same way someone made for me!
Changing from Archer to Pugilist should make you forget how to not let your hat fall from your head!

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Originally Posted by AdvancedWind

No!
Too many options to choose from, that confuses people!
He's shouldn't be wearing L30 pants on his L27 character!
He is wearing the same gear as me after paying the same price or getting someone to craft it for him the same way someone made for me!
Changing from Archer to Pugilist should make you forget how to not let your hat fall from your head!

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Is that sarcasm I smell? :P

LOL @ confusing people

Seriously. I can't help but wonder if we are getting dumber as a species instead of smarter. Do we really need to pigeonhole everyone into a specific set of gear AND color code it just so we can identify what their role is? It's even funnier that most of the people for this kind of crap are self proclaimed "hardcore" players who think they are so good but they need this kind of help just to tell who their tank is. It boggles the mind.

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Originally Posted by AdvancedWind

snip.

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Why should we need tutorials to know how gear works? It should be self explanatory. The problem with the old system is that it was in no way self explanatory, just like the wards are in no way self explanatory, just like leves are in no way self explanatory. If you need tutorials for the most BASIC of features in the game, then those features are broken, and not streamlined. I should not need to micromanage every little stat on every single piece of gear and between a handful of pieces that are "recommended" to me to know what is good for the class that I am currently playing. The old system was too cluttered, and too misleading. It was not user friendly and so it is getting abolished.

Honestly, I spent an hour last night explaining systems to a newbie that should be self explanatory as functions of an RPG. When you try to reinvent the wheel, it usually doesn't work. It's not innovation, it's clutter, and I'm glad they're getting rid of it.

If you want to wear whatever for aesthetics, then I'm all for an aesthetic gear tab (ala, where you can equip anything to simply change your look, but not stats). But wearing the same gear across levels and disciplines is pointlessly complicating what is currently a streamlined system.

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Originally Posted by ellohwell

Honestly.

It's just getting annoying now. Why do I have to be stripped to the bones every single time I want to craft something on a different class? Why can't my gear just scale down accordingly? If you ask me, it was better before patch 1.19.

As long as the UI shows me what stats I'm losing out on (and now it does), that is suggestive enough for me to want to wear something else, but also not imposing enough that I HAVE to wear something else. The optimal rank was flexible. This new system is just flat-out punishing. It's more punishing than fatigue.

Can I have fatigue back? I'd rather have fatigue back than this.

And the mannequin system isn't a solution because A) It's 1.5 years away and B) just give us optimal and favoured back instead.

I couldn't even wear a R18 dagger as a R15 gladiator merely because i wasn't high enough for it. I mean really... really... It was the lowest one available in wards so I had to buy a dated one which was a few ranks higher because i could actually WEAR that one.

So in conclusion: bring back optimal/favoured system.

• It was a progressive step for an MMO where you are constantly changing classes.
• It was also much better than restrictions because it allowed you some flexibility to play the way you wanted and also look the way you wanted
• Restrictions are punishing
• Restrictions make you buy stupid stuff from the wards

Just leave restrictive gear for AF stuff or something. There's no reason to get all crazy and heavy-handed about restrictions just because the polls suggested players wanted some restrictive gear. It's really not balanced at the moment.

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For all the time I've spent defending the "Optional/Optimal" system since Alpha, I don't see the problem with the new system. There are certain gear sets that should NEVER be equippable by just anyone.

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Originally Posted by ellohwell

Honestly.

It's just getting annoying now. Why do I have to be stripped to the bones every single time I want to craft something on a different class? Why can't my gear just scale down accordingly? If you ask me, it was better before patch 1.19.

As long as the UI shows me what stats I'm losing out on (and now it does), that is suggestive enough for me to want to wear something else, but also not imposing enough that I HAVE to wear something else. The optimal rank was flexible. This new system is just flat-out punishing. It's more punishing than fatigue.

Can I have fatigue back? I'd rather have fatigue back than this.

And the mannequin system isn't a solution because A) It's 1.5 years away and B) just give us optimal and favoured back instead.

I couldn't even wear a R18 dagger as a R15 gladiator merely because i wasn't high enough for it. I mean really... really... It was the lowest one available in wards so I had to buy a dated one which was a few ranks higher because i could actually WEAR that one.

So in conclusion: bring back optimal/favoured system.

• It was a progressive step for an MMO where you are constantly changing classes.
• It was also much better than restrictions because it allowed you some flexibility to play the way you wanted and also look the way you wanted
• Restrictions are punishing
• Restrictions make you buy stupid stuff from the wards

Just leave restrictive gear for AF stuff or something. There's no reason to get all crazy and heavy-handed about restrictions just because the polls suggested players wanted some restrictive gear. It's really not balanced at the moment.

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I totally support that! I much prefer optimal class and favoured class.

Plate wearing mages....no thanks. It's already a nightmare getting them to gear at all, let alone with proper gear.

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Originally Posted by ellohwell

Your post will get a lot of likes, because this community likes to like posts like yours.

But anyway. Couldn't you argue that FFXIV had a optimal/favoured system for a year and it worked fine. No complaints.

Maybe you should have taken your own advice and stopped "QQing" when you had the chance before you helped encourage the devs to ruin a perfectly good system.

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Ooooh Crap.... lol obvious troll.... ~.~

Was wondering when you'd show up again and it's even less surprising that you're beating on this dead horse again. Were the last 5 forum account bans not enough to figure out you're not wanted, gifthorse? You might as well have just revived your last topic on it instead.

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Originally Posted by mysterytaru

Was wondering when you'd show up again and it's even less surprising that you're beating on this dead horse again. Were the last 5 forum account bans not enough to figure out you're not wanted, gifthorse? You might as well have just revived your last topic on it instead.

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LOL Wait.... Alyosha17 is that you?! O.O

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Originally Posted by Drunk-Bandit

LOL Wait.... Alyosha17 is that you?! O.O

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O.o? *confused*

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Originally Posted by ellohwell

Your post will get a lot of likes, because this community likes to like posts like yours.

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We like to like posts that we agree with? Yeah, that's generally how it works...

The majority of people prefer required level over optimal level. That's why there's less people agreeing with you. It's that simple.