With all this housing drama going on...

Its encouraging to see you guys try to take measures to alleviate the problem, but confounding when you pair with free login campaigns coupled with email notifications. I realize the demolition initiative is an earnest attempt to alleviate some negativity around this issue but it seems rather disingenuous when paired with this free login campaign. Our server saw users come back just to refresh their houses and plausibly push off a subscription for another few months. Yes, we can wait until the next point when they decide if they're going to log back in but it smacks of inaction and allowing your user base to be yanked around by the chain on an issue that should not even exist. I love Final Fantasy XIV, but this is unacceptable. A game where the only reason folks are not participating in content is due to blockage up the dev pipeline, that is a failure to the community. You need to listen to these responses and to expedite a resolution.

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Originally Posted by tymora

Just a note that Japanese "mansions" are 1 room studio apartments.
Don't get your hopes up heh....

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Well, they did say each mansion would house 512 players so I don't see how there can be much confusion there. o.O

This complaining should just end as it will go nowhere. SE have shown many times that they WILL NOT admit that they made a mistake and will continue to try to band aid the problem (think about 1.0 and market wards). The only thing getting in the way of a great housing system is loss of face.

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Originally Posted by Melchar

Our server saw users come back just to refresh their houses and plausibly push off a subscription for another few months. Yes, we can wait until the next point when they decide if they're going to log back in

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I'm going to quote this part because this stood out to me. They should make it so that houses that are going to be reclaimed are known to the playerbase maybe marked with a red dot, or at the very least a timer on the placard. As it stands now Christmas was the only time when people knew they were going to go up. With the free login campaign and people buying a little more time, it's now up in the air as to where, when, and what will be relinquished. I feel like they could at least do this to give the players who are still playing a chance of being there to snag a house, without having to follow 100's of players on the lodestone in an effort to see if the person on each plot is still playing or has resubbed and try to guess when. Our server is packed, but even if you have to try and get a plot against other players, at least they'll have the chance rather than plots going up and disappearing with no one noticing.

I am almost positive that the dev team is fully aware of the housing situation right now. But just in case they aren't I would like to reinforce this thread and many others in the sense that something absolutely needs to be done about this. It was poorly implemented to begin with, especially when "personal housing" came out and was essentially the same thing as FC housing but you didn't need to be the leader of an FC to buy one.

This whole housing reclamation system was also a huge failure timing wise and implementation. People being able to buy multiple houses on ult characters or whatever was just an awful idea. I also agree houses shouldn't have been allowed to be sold by players especially when there is not enough houses to go around. It has created a horrible community image with people selling small plots worth 5 million or less for 50 million instead just because there is none left and they can get away with it.

I am pretty disappointed in SE about this. Of course I love this game and I will still play and support it as long as I can. But it is our right as users of FFXIV to post on these forums in hopes to create change where change is needed.

True we could stop complaining but I will let it alone when I feel like it. For now, this is ridiculous. Let them hear us. It's a poorly managed and implemented system from both a perspective of game design and production. We held them to standards before and they listened. I don't see any problem in letting them know that though I've kept quiet in the past, this warrants continued response now. Get it together SE.

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Originally Posted by Waeksyn

This complaining should just end as it will go nowhere.

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All the more reason it should never end. The developers should have to see everyday that they goofed this system and players are demanding that it gets fixed, just because of their lack of action doesn't mean we should stop telling them they are wrong.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

All the more reason it should never end. The developers should have to see everyday that they goofed this system and players are demanding that it gets fixed, just because of their lack of action doesn't mean we should stop telling them they are wrong.

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This is why. Thanks Jynx. The buck doesn't stop with the devs. It ends with us. We're the last line of feedback or else everything is perfect. SE needs to realize that this has gone on too long and the bandaids are not working. The FC system is incomplete without housing and other content is gated behind having this extremely limited resource. Tying personal housing to FC housing seemed to be a solution to move the promise of personal housing more quickly down the pipeline and it has had disastrous results. Just look at the guy who is 5/9 collecting all the houses.

SE, take ownership of your mistake and spend the resources necessary to fix this glaring issue.

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Originally Posted by Melchar

The buck doesn't stop with the devs. It ends with us. We're the last line of feedback or else everything is perfect. SE needs to realize that this has gone on too long and the bandaids are not working. The FC system is incomplete without housing and other content is gated behind having this extremely limited resource. Tying personal housing to FC housing seemed to be a solution to move the promise of personal housing more quickly down the pipeline and it has had disastrous results. Just look at the guy who is 5/9 collecting all the houses.

SE, take ownership of your mistake and spend the resources necessary to fix this glaring issue.

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It doesn't get much more clearer than that. Please take note SE.

I have been lucky to finally get a house yesterday, after 1 years of wait. I never felt so sad about getting something I've always wanted. The limitation of housing wouldn't be such an issue if it wasn't the fact that they made new content related to housing(Airship).

Most people like to play alone now. This is how the gaming community is now around the world (Note that I am deeply sorry if you are a social gamer. Don't feel targeted by this generalization). So it's normal that everyone want their little nest. The neighborhood system is good on concept, for FC. The only real issue there is, is 1: A single player can have more than 1 plot on 1 server. And 2: if 1 doesn't apply, they go around the system, teaming up with other players or alts for getting more.

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Originally Posted by HalfLegend

(Note that I am deeply sorry if you are a social gamer. Don't feel targeted by this generalization). So it's normal that everyone want their little nest.

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First, congrats on your house! I don't think that having a different preference towards housing is wrong, if you want a personal house, great. Play the way you want to play. It only becomes a problem when the devs create systems that allow it to be a problem. In this case, pairing personal with FC housing. We were so excited for the release of the personal housing system. The minute it was released and we realized it would put FCs in direct competition with enterprising individuals it was apparent we would run into this problem. I wish they would recognize this and apply a resolution in a timely manner rather than stumbling from one ineffective measure to another. Overhaul the thing if you have to guys, what exists right now is a mockery of what was proposed. Do the right thing.

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Originally Posted by Melchar

Overhaul the thing if you have to guys, what exists right now is a mockery of what was proposed. Do the right thing.

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Q4: We have the auto reclamation this month, but can you please let us know about future addition of land?

A4: We have confirmed that we will be increasing the amount of land for existing housing areas in Patch 3.3. After this we’re planning to introduce mansion type housing, and housing in the Ishgard area. These two are being developed in parallel, but in order to meet everyone’s demand, we will implement the mansion-type housing as a first priority. Currently it’s being planned that one mansion will be able to hold 512 residences. As for gardening, we think this will be difficult, but we’re currently developing new pots that will allow gardening, so please look forward to this.

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Pretty sure this fits the bill, no? They always said the housing reclamation was only the first step.

I realize its the first step but the current timeframe for resolution seems too stretched out and we don't have more information about it. In this case its an issue of transparency and initiative.

The issue always have been know to some point. That is a fact. The issue at this moment that make drama, is the people owning multiple plot not for their use but for their monetary gain. Hoarding plot to sell them at "ridiculous" price is what people are mad about. But I get your point when you say that the system is flawed.

A flawed system ultimately leads to the abuse of it towards a monetary gain in games like this. SE has had more than a year to fix it. The fact we are seeing such ineffective measures taking place to address them now makes me want to have a voice to hold them to a real resolution this time. Not some Mickey Mouse band aid that sounds good on the wrapper but serves only to backfire.

I think you are wrong. SE putted their priority at the right place. Have you seen that chocobo plushie in the SE store?!???!

SWEET MOTHER THERESA ON THE HOOD OF A MERCEDEZ BENZ!!!!!!

Hahah clearly I was wrong. Merchandising above all else, yes.

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Originally Posted by Melchar

I realize its the first step but the current timeframe for resolution seems too stretched out and we don't have more information about it. In this case its an issue of transparency and initiative.

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The problem they run into with having too much transparency is that even if they're only throwing around ideas it tends to get twisted by people into word of gospel and once that information's been given out it can't be taken back. If the ideas end up drastically changed, delayed due to issues with implementation, or even just end up on the cutting-room floor for one reason or another, people will still pester them about it months or even years later. At least they've given us a loose time frame at this point, and that's probably all we're going to get. There's also a matter of being unable to move forward with too many things at once given that they do have other content to develop as well. I don't think people would be happy if, for example, we didn't get any dungeons or raids until the housing issue was resolved. As far as why they can't implement new wards in the existing housing areas in patch 3.2 (this seems like it'd be a copypasta job but who knows what goes on behind the scenes there), your guess is as good as mine.

Maybe they're prioritizing the housing transfer system they've talked about a few times? It's hard to say.

I get it, people are unhappy with the current system. Even though I own a house already I can completely understand why, especially after seeing a PF full of vultures opportunists reselling the few plots that did open up on the first day of reclamation. But seriously, people keep complaining that SE needs to admit they screwed up, they need to fix it, blah blah blah. The fact of the matter is they are putting measures in to fix it, but since they have to develop some of those measures from the ground up people are going to have to be patient for a little while longer. I view the development of mansion/apartment housing to be an admission of sorts that the ward layout simply doesn't work when you throw personal housing into the mix. I dunno. I guess it just comes down to the fact that you're asking them to "do the right thing" and "take ownership of this mistake and spend the resources necessary to fix this glaring issue" when they've already announced steps to do exactly that. Dunno, I guess I just appreciate the "feel" they were trying to establish with the FFXIV housing system and I can't really blame them for being loath to let go of that vision in favor of instanced housing. I know I'm looking forward to seeing what the apartments and Ishgard housing end up being like.

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Originally Posted by HalfLegend

I think you are wrong. SE putted their priority at the right place. Have you seen that chocobo plushie in the SE store?!???!

SWEET MOTHER THERESA ON THE HOOD OF A MERCEDEZ BENZ!!!!!!

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Right, cause the guys that came up with the idea of a chocobo plushie are the same ones that code housing additions. -.-

Although I may just be another drop in the bucket, I hope eventually we will overflow onto the devs desks.

For such an aware community and dev team, to see this fall this through cracks feels like falling onto spear. I'm not one to discount the work that has been done, but there are many things about this that tell me the devs have just turned a blind eye, relying on weak excuses or worse.

Not only was the reclamation system they designed to alleviate the problem undermined by a free log-in campaign, but the timing was specifically on Christmas. A holiday that is celebrated around the world - one that puts family and a sense of giving at the heart of everything. Christmas this year may have been ruined for quite a few people: And no, not because they didn't get a house, but because they spent hours of their morning afternoon and evening waiting for a chance to get a house. I for one abandoned a family dinner, breakfast and a generally good holiday waiting for housing to benefit not just myself, but the many people in my Free Company that will also benefit from it.

Can you see how this felt like spit in the eye from the dev team?

I appreciate the phases they've discussed, the wanting to fix the problem, but these 'fixes' have also left me wanting. I do not have much faith that the next phases will alleviate this problem anymore than this first one has. I fully expect this "expansion of wards" in phase 2 to bring a pittance of new houses. One that will be crowded with login congestion and more missed opportunities. Phase 3 may very well be the same.

As said before me: FC housing and Personal Housing need to be separated in some way. To lock a plethora of content behind such a wall that people will viciously take advantage of is no doubt the worst possible feeling in a game that I for one have followed and been dedicated to as much as I could.

Some aggressive action must be taken to give those without, plenty. Be the Robin Hood of developers you have been, team! Make us proud!

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Originally Posted by Sterne

Not only was the reclamation system they designed to alleviate the problem undermined by a free log-in campaign, but the timing was specifically on Christmas. A holiday that is celebrated around the world - one that puts family and a sense of giving at the heart of everything. Christmas this year may have been ruined for quite a few people: And no, not because they didn't get a house, but because they spent hours of their morning afternoon and evening waiting for a chance to get a house. I for one abandoned a family dinner, breakfast and a generally good holiday waiting for housing to benefit not just myself, but the many people in my Free Company that will also benefit from it.

Can you see how this felt like spit in the eye from the dev team?

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Yeah, I have to admit I facepalmed when I saw timing of the the free login campaign.

Someone didn't think that through very well at all.

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Originally Posted by Sterne

As said before me: FC housing and Personal Housing need to be separated in some way. To lock a plethora of content behind such a wall that people will viciously take advantage of is no doubt the worst possible feeling in a game that I for one have followed and been dedicated to as much as I could.

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I strongly feel that this is where they went wrong with housing and broke the ward system completely beyond repair. I say this as someone that owns a personal house: the housing wards never should've been opened up to personal housing. If they'd looked into developing instanced housing for personal use instead of simply combining FC and personal housing, the demand for the houses in the wards would be a lot lower and the problem would be a lot less overwhelming. Of course, hindsight is 20/20 and all. :/

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

I guess it just comes down to the fact that you're asking them to "do the right thing" and "take ownership of this mistake and spend the resources necessary to fix this glaring issue" when they've already announced steps to do exactly that

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Ashkendor, thanks for your thoughtful response. I am keenly aware of this having worked around the edges of the industry and I recognize that my response alone will not necessarily affect an immediate change given the pipeline and challenges of FFXIV's dev and content team. I own a house myself, I am frustrated by friends whose hard work is negated by an inefficient system. My main goal here is to voice my opinion and make sure they know we're watching and waiting for a different resolution, one that will mean something. It matters to call it out, it matters to call them on solely for the fact that they know what we think/feel.

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Originally Posted by SargentToughie

FFXI

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I want to field this question. FFXI mog house was very simple and not very taxing on the system. First FFXI used a grid system so you could only have certain items in certain spot, unlike FFXIV where you can have items float in mid air. The system has to remember every detail and save that so it displays for any one who enters.

Second FFXI really didn't have and instance system in place so it wasn't an issue. In fact you couldn't even let people into your Mog House until late in the life cycle. FFXIV housing shares with the data center's DF service thus can create strain on content like dungeon, trials, raids, and so on. We first saw this issue when housing first came out and had to make the changes where characters appear in wards instead of house after logging in or exiting a instance.

Third FFXIV wasn't trying to create a simple house but rather a player village. Sadly the content fell to the way side because the devs have been focusing on making house for every player. I hope we can get back to that original concept after 3.3 drops.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Snip

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Was just trying to put some humor on the forum because it became really salty since yesterday... ;_;
Don't be mad at me sempai :(

But back on topic. I don't get why people want SE to make public anouncement that they goofed up/apologies. It won't solve anything. They are already in the knowledge of the current situation and are trying to solve it. The player base right now want to be told that they were right (If there was any such thing) to compensate something I can't point my finger on.

I for one don't want an announcement of failure or fault. That's apparent. I want a road map to a solution. I likely won't get it, but either the roadmap or the effective solution alone would be nice. It's stupid to see good players languishing behind an arbitrary resource gate when all other requirements and capabilities are in place.

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Originally Posted by Melchar

I for one don't want an announcement of failure or fault. That's apparent. I want a road map to a solution. I likely won't get it, but either the roadmap or the effective solution alone would be nice. It's stupid to see good players languishing behind an arbitrary resource gate when all other requirements and capabilities are in place.

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I agree.

There's a big difference between: "Hey we're gonna do this thing." and "Hey, we're gonna do this thing in 20 days and this is how said thing is going to work."

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Originally Posted by Sterne

And no, not because they didn't get a house, but because they spent hours of their morning afternoon and evening waiting for a chance to get a house. I for one abandoned a family dinner, breakfast and a generally good holiday waiting for housing to benefit

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My FC leader and I did just that, waited around literally all day for the plot we wanted to be taken by the neighbors because "We wanted another house lol". I guess they needed one of those small houses to store all their gil

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Originally Posted by Melchar

I for one don't want an announcement of failure or fault. That's apparent. I want a road map to a solution. I likely won't get it, but either the roadmap or the effective solution alone would be nice. It's stupid to see good players languishing behind an arbitrary resource gate when all other requirements and capabilities are in place.

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Q4: We have the auto reclamation this month, but can you please let us know about future addition of land?

A4: We have confirmed that we will be increasing the amount of land for existing housing areas in Patch 3.3. After this we’re planning to introduce mansion type housing, and housing in the Ishgard area. These two are being developed in parallel, but in order to meet everyone’s demand, we will implement the mansion-type housing as a first priority. Currently it’s being planned that one mansion will be able to hold 512 residences. As for gardening, we think this will be difficult, but we’re currently developing new pots that will allow gardening, so please look forward to this.

As for furnishings with high demand, we have a goal now to increase the amount of items which can be placed, so please wait a bit longer.

Can't be more clear than this.

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Originally Posted by HalfLegend

Was just trying to put some humor on the forum because it became really salty since yesterday... ;_;
Don't be mad at me sempai :(

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Ahhaha yeah the forums have had so many different flavors of salt the past couple of days. >.<

Humor in text is hard, especially since some people say absurd things and actually believe them. x_x

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Originally Posted by Deesei

My FC leader and I did just that, waited around literally all day for the plot we wanted to be taken by the neighbors because "We wanted another house lol". I guess they needed one of those small houses to store all their gil

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They're doing it wrong. You're supposed to store all your gil in a giant swimming pool.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Can't be more clear than this.

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This is just a general statement. It's likely all we'll get and its been presented to me already. What I want to make sure is they don't half-ace it. We can say "Oh they won't" but SE has definitely botched stuff like this in the past. This statement doesn't preclude the need to voice our opinions. It's also why I am not raving right now.

I've long since given up on the idea of having my own home. The pricing alone dissuades me, to say nothing of the fact that it currently isn't possible for the team to add in enough to meet the demand (for now). Sadly, there are quite a few features tied to housing, namely chocobo colouring, so most of my alts on my account won't be able to colour their chocbo (for now). But my characters that are in FCs, and these FCs are fortunate enough to have a home, I'm content with just having an FC room.

I've personally always been partial to EverQuest 2's player housing system, but I don't think the current hardware could handle it (again, at the moment). Plus, it's more akin to having huge FC rooms.

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Originally Posted by Melchar

This is just a general statement. It's likely all we'll get and its been presented to me already. What I want to make sure is they don't half-ace it. We can say "Oh they won't" but SE has definitely botched stuff like this in the past. This statement doesn't preclude the need to voice our opinions. It's also why I am not raving right now.

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You said you want a road map on housing and that is what they gave you. 3.3 they are adding more wards and further down the pipeline they are adding wards in ishgard and apartment buildings. If you are looking for specific time and dates I think you'll be left waiting because devs want to box themselves in by deadlines. That is how you get half-arsed system.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

You said you want a road map on housing and that is what they gave you. 3.3 they are adding more wards and further down the pipeline they are adding wards in ishgard and apartment buildings. If you are looking for specific time and dates I think you'll be left waiting because devs want to box themselves in by deadlines. That is how you get half-arsed system.

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More to the point: How many more wards? Are we getting two? That would be half-aced to say the least (to coin melchar's phrase). They gave us these vague ideals and ideas months ago, and look where Phase 1 got us. Nowhere.

We don't want a failed Phase 2, and then a botched Phase 3 as well.

We are here to let them know that what they did (reclamation), coupled with what they did around it (free login campaign, Christmas morning deadline) was a terrible failure on their part to really solve the problem they're hoping to fix.

I get what you're saying, but what we're saying is that we need to be heard:
"Please do it better. Please do it sooner. And please do it with heart for everyone"

Sterne gets it Dyvid. I'm not as vapid as my portrait might indicate. I want to communicate with the dev team. Whether I get what I want doesn't really matter. In the end, an effective solution is the top priority. No more of these lukewarm disappointments.

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Originally Posted by Sterne

Snip

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Expecting instant result and quick solution to complex problems only leads to more problems. Reclamation isn't some one day fix, it's an on going system of removal and repurchase. From now on houses that have been abandon will be returned to the system for resell. You might find a house today, tomorrow, next week, or the week after. The free log on was in bad taste on housing side but it was also the market gimmick everyone uses to get player to start playing again, you know this. Do you honestly think the devs said "How can we upset the player? I know, we have reclamation service coming, lets do a free log on campaign just to spite them." They want housing to work as much as you but don't want to break the game in the process. You think people are mad about housing, imagine the fire storm that would happen if SE gave houses to everyone but broke the DF server as a side effect. Don't forget it happened in 2.1.

Instead of venting pure frustration what about some possible solution? You said ""Please do it better. Please do it sooner. And please do it with heart for everyone"" so I count with how?

They should have left the houses for FC only, that way only people that can get rank 6 FC can get houses and ppl can't pluck them all up for to resell or w/e. Then people could have had their own rooms with flowerpots. The way it is right now just isn't working and isn't fair to people wanting to start new FCs.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Instead of venting pure frustration what about some possible solution? You said ""Please do it better. Please do it sooner. And please do it with heart for everyone"" so I count with how?

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You're mistaking a cry for action and attention from the devs to our woes as venting pure frustration.

That aside, I wish I could come up with the perfect solution myself. I, however, do not have years of experience in the gaming industry to back me. All I have are cursory understandings of how the system works. I cannot speak for their budget, or where the money they've earned from 'the game that saved Square Enix' went. I cannot say whether or not this money has been misappropriated and gone to other things rather than the QoL fixes we need and want.

What you're asking for from me, and from all of us, is moot. If we were developers surely we would apply for a job at Square Enix and fix it ourselves from the inside.

The bottom line is that my monthly subscription pays their salary, and at the very least we all deserve to be heard and acknowledged.

Phase 1 was poorly implemented. Period.

We don't want the same for Phase 2 and 3 in the coming months (to a year).

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Originally Posted by Ilitsa

they're also doing a "mansion" system which will be able to house 512 players each.

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"Mansion" just means apartments in Japan. Threw me for a loop the first time I went there and a friend who lives in Kyoto called his apartment that.

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Originally Posted by Whocareswhatmynameis

They should have left the houses for FC only, that way only people that can get rank 6 FC can get houses and ppl can't pluck them all up for to resell or w/e. Then people could have had their own rooms with flowerpots. The way it is right now just isn't working and isn't fair to people wanting to start new FCs.

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Pretty much this. This was not thought through at all and I feel like they just did this because the first idea for personal housing fell through or something

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Originally Posted by Whocareswhatmynameis

They should have left the houses for FC only, that way only people that can get rank 6 FC can get houses and ppl can't pluck them all up for to resell or w/e. Then people could have had their own rooms with flowerpots. The way it is right now just isn't working and isn't fair to people wanting to start new FCs.

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do you know how easy it is to get a rank 6 solo FC though? it would definitely make it slightly more difficult but not by much...

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Instead of venting pure frustration what about some possible solution? You said ""Please do it better. Please do it sooner. And please do it with heart for everyone"" so I count with how?

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That burden isn't on us as a fanbase. At this point you are just being contrarian as an exercise. We can make a list of demands but it doesn't really matter. What matters is no repeats of what has already occurred. Instead of trying to poke holes in people's comments, perhaps you could lend your own instead of speaking for the devs themselves. No one is so stupid to think they set out with intention of trying to piss everyone off. Of course not, but they need to do better next time. We're here to remind them of that. We're not asking for something outlandish like what happened in 2.1. What they do need it to have their content functioning and not gated behind walls that are artificially insurmountable due to inaction on part of the devs(e.g. housing).