Developers: Why are you "limiting" FFXIV to the PS3 as you limited FF11 to the PS2?

Once again.... guys what I AM TRYING to say is that with time, with the passing of the years, the hardware OF THE PS3 will eventually limit what can be done/implemented into FF14.

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Originally Posted by Darkhaund

Once again.... guys what I AM TRYING to say is that with time, with the passing of the years, the hardware OF THE PS3 will eventually limit what can be done/implemented into FF14.

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And once again, we're trying to let you understand that you don't have a point.
Engines can be updated. Mind you, you can even have the same game playing with two different engines on two different platforms. As long as the items in game are the same, they can be displayed with the downgraded engine in the weaker platform, and with a top notch one in the more powerful platform. A cross-platform MMORPG does NOT need to have the same graphics on the two platforms. This is why Dragon Quest X will be released on the Wii, and then on the Wii U with improved graphics.

Before making such a farfetched point getting informed a bit about the inner workings of this kind of development may be useful, instead of basing your point upon thin air.

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Originally Posted by Dragon

Incorrect, the PS3's GPU has been compared to something better than 2x Geforce 7800GTX video cards, which was still powerful when the PS3 was released.

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This is from Wikipedia:

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Based on NV47 Chip (Nvidia GeForce 7800 Architecture)

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And this:

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NVIDIA CEO Jen-Hsun Huang stated during Sony's pre-show press conference at E3 2005 that the RSX is twice as powerful as the GeForce 6800 Ultra.

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Originally Posted by Darkhaund

Once again.... guys what I AM TRYING to say is that with time, with the passing of the years, the hardware OF THE PS3 will eventually limit what can be done/implemented into FF14.

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and what we're saying is that you have no clue about actual game development process with that statement.

PS3 hardware can no more limit what can be done in FF14 years down the road than any mid-low end PC that would be just as outdated by then. It is up to the programmers to make sure their stuff is able to take advantage of high end machines while retains playability with low end systems. The whole PS2 limitation has always been an excuse to mask SE's unwillingness to dedicate sufficient resource to tackle core issues.

So you are stating as a FACT that the PS3 wont hurt, limit or hold back IN ANYWAY this game in let's say 5 years form now as if it were released only on PC? Answer YES or NO period!

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Originally Posted by Darkhaund

So you are stating as a FACT that the PS3 wont hurt, limit or hold back IN ANYWAY this game in let's say 5 years form now as if it were released only on PC? Answer YES or NO period!

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I refer back to my earlier post:

"PS3 hardware can no more limit what can be done in FF14 years down the road than any mid-low end PC"

The only way PS3 can "hold back" FF14 is if SE wants/lets it to, and if that's how the devs goes about their business, then there will likely be far more important things to be worried about.

Darkhaund is is correct when he says the PS3 will limit ff14, but only in the way that the minimum PC system specs will also limit it. This is a true statement. Does it limit what they can do eventually? Yes. Will it be a problem in the next 5 years? Most likely not. Depending on how they implement their engine they can extend it's life for a long time.

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Originally Posted by Darkhaund

So you are stating as a FACT that the PS3 wont hurt, limit or hold back IN ANYWAY this game in let's say 5 years form now as if it were released only on PC? Answer YES or NO period!

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I'm stating as a fact that you don't know what you're talking about. The PS3 won't hurt, limit or hold back this game any more than current PCs that match the minimum requirements now and will be obsolete by then.

So if the game were to be ported to hte 360 as well... no problems whatsoever?

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Originally Posted by Darkhaund

So if the game were to be ported to hte 360 as well... no problems whatsoever?

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Whenever you make a game for a specific platform, the game is limited in the future based on that system's specs. This includes the minimum requirements for the PC and Ps3 and Xbox, and what ever platform you make it on. The reason is because when you release on a platform you basically promise that further changes will be supported by that platform. This does not mean that they could not overcome this issue by changing specs or saying that all content post X date is only available for better platforms.

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Originally Posted by Darkhaund

So you are stating as a FACT that the PS3 wont hurt, limit or hold back IN ANYWAY this game in let's say 5 years form now as if it were released only on PC? Answer YES or NO period!

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How are you going to elaborate your point and confine answers to a singular value? Are you smoking crack?

You don't start a debate and demand yourself an advantage.

The clear point is: you are overreacting; you are incorrect and all of your "supporting" "facts" are founded upon the antiquated happenings of a MMO (ffxi) with which you presume a false authoritative stance in the endeavor of demeaning SEs business proposition to revitalize a game that many of us have become highly enamored with.

I say get with the program or gtfo our forums and game.

lol your forums and your game???... you STFU and GTFO yoruself!!!

I have all the right to express my concerns.
I like the game and I just dont want to see it suffer or held back because it is being ported on an older system.

Learn to read and accept ohters ideas

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Originally Posted by Darkhaund

in fact.. the very FACT that they are making SMALLER ZONES, they just said it is becaue they need to adapt the game for the PS3. So since now... limitations are being present

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that is not what they said at all, they said that they are zoneing it so that they can diversify the areas to look different.

it does not matter what year it is or what system FFXIV is on (unless it was PC only) there will be a "wall" that is hit, people have to deal with that or don't play multi platform MMORPGs.

There is still alot the PS3 can do, and no this will never be on 360..... then you will see some real limitations ;p

If anything the 360 is limited on HDD space, the most you can get is 320 I think, where as on PS3...hell I have a 500gb HDD in mine, and can easily place a 1-2tb in it if I choose.

You know Sony is going to announce PS4 at the next E3 along with MS and their new Xbox, at this point they should just start development for PS4 rather then PS3 which uses such old tech now.

THEY DID MENTION that they are "optimizing" it for PS3... go READ en entire thing

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Originally Posted by AranenAmarth

Whenever you make a game for a specific platform, the game is limited in the future based on that system's specs. This includes the minimum requirements for the PC and Ps3 and Xbox, and what ever platform you make it on. The reason is because when you release on a platform you basically promise that further changes will be supported by that platform. This does not mean that they could not overcome this issue by changing specs or saying that all content post X date is only available for better platforms.

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Not true. Technology is far more advanced these days. 1 game engine can support multiple platforms simultaneously. The only thing that limits/is limited by performance is the actual platform. A mmo that plays on PC/xbox/ps3 is going to have varying differences individually, but the core mechanics can remain the same OR be simultaneously patched/altered.

SE is a professional game developer. They dont need nerdy little forum geeks to tell them common market hardware specs n such.

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Originally Posted by Darkhaund

THEY DID MENTION that they are "optimizing" it for PS3... go READ en entire thing

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you need to calm down......

you need to go read it again I am afraid, yes they are optimizing it for PS3, but if you read more, is also says highly configurable graphics on the PC end.

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Originally Posted by Darkhaund

So if the game were to be ported to hte 360 as well... no problems whatsoever?

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there will be problems of a different kind, namely Microsoft's restriction on its live network

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Originally Posted by AranenAmarth

Whenever you make a game for a specific platform, the game is limited in the future based on that system's specs. This includes the minimum requirements for the PC and Ps3 and Xbox, and what ever platform you make it on. The reason is because when you release on a platform you basically promise that further changes will be supported by that platform. This does not mean that they could not overcome this issue by changing specs or saying that all content post X date is only available for better platforms.

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Not only that, but if it gets to the point where the hardware does become substantially outdated, the devs always have the option of pulling support and require a hardware update. Eve has done this, multiple times. When the Eve client started to get held back by legacy support for outdated gpus, CCP basically told everyone and their 486s to upgrade or gtfo.

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Originally Posted by Darkhaund

lol your forums and your game???... you STFU and GTFO yoruself!!!

I have all the right to express my concerns.
I like the game and I just dont want to see it suffer or held back because it is being ported on an older system.

Learn to read and accept ohters ideas

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you do have a right to express your concerns, but you also need to take your own advice and learn to read and actually educate yourself on how things actually work, instead of basing your fears on false assumptions.

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Originally Posted by Darkhaund

in fact.. the very FACT that they are making SMALLER ZONES, they just said it is becaue they need to adapt the game for the PS3. So since now... limitations are being present

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The document doesn't state that there are smaller zones because of PS3 limitations at all. What they said was that the original zones were created to be seamless and huge, but needed a lot of copypasta for them to be so big (hence why there's so much of it... finally a sensical reason). They are just cutting the land up into smaller zones with more environments now to allow for less copypasta and more unique areas (like we asked for).

That's all it said... nowhere does it say the world will be smaller either. Chill out and stop trying to invent things to make your point.

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Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee

The only thing that limits/is limited by performance is the actual platform.

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That is what I said. Please read the entire post and try again.

Well, why not just make it for the PS4 and problems solved!?

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Originally Posted by Darkhaund

Well, why not just make it for the PS4 and problems solved!?

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have you ever thought that SE already knows (from Sony) that games deved for PS3 can easily be recompiled for PS4?

Nothing would stop SE from released a PS4 version of FFXIV

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Originally Posted by Darkhaund

lol your forums and your game???... you STFU and GTFO yoruself!!!

I have all the right to express my concerns.
I like the game and I just dont want to see it suffer or held back because it is being ported on an older system.

Learn to read and accept ohters ideas

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- Learn to spell
- idc about your rights
- idc about your opinion
- idc about your illegitimate rage thread
- I am smart enough to understand that SE is going to do what's smart for SE while attempting to please the strongest majority of their consumers. That's how business works.

Get on my level and then you deserve debate with me. Otherwise you're just another uneducated rant with delusions of doomsday realities and you should seriously GTFO.

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Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee

How are you going to elaborate your point and confine answers to a singular value? Are you smoking crack?

You don't start a debate and demand yourself an advantage.

The clear point is: you are overreacting; you are incorrect and all of your "supporting" "facts" are founded upon the antiquated happenings of a MMO (ffxi) with which you presume a false authoritative stance in the endeavor of demeaning SEs business proposition to revitalize a game that many of us have become highly enamored with.

I say get with the program or gtfo our forums and game.

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Wow, GREAT post! lol

And yes Darkhaund you do have every right to express your concern. We are only telling you that your concern is invalid, not to not express it. Well, actually, I did tell you not to... In any case, I'm no game designer but it is really just common sense. Sure, you are correct in 5 years time there will be limitations to what they can do but no more so than any video game ever created.

I Upgrade my PC regularly but a lot of people can't afford that so does that mean that the kid down the street that can't afford a PC upgrade every few years is limiting the game? The answer is yes. What should we do about him? Tell him he has to sign a contract that he will upgrade his hardware in 3 years to support the engine overhaul? Yeah, that's a good way to get players...

The only solution to this problem is Cloud Gaming like OnLive which is failing miserably at the moment. So in other words it doesn't matter what platform the game ends up on it will eventually get dated just like my damn Cesti are on my PUG right now :(

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Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee

- Learn to spell
- idc about your rights
- idc about your opinion
- idc about your illegitimate rage thread
- I am smart enough to understand that SE is going to do what's smart for SE while attempting to please the strongest majority of their consumers. That's how business works.

Get on my level and then you deserve debate with me. Otherwise you're just another uneducated rant with delusions of doomsday realities and you should seriously GTFO.

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Fair enough dude fair enough!
It is just that I am concerned about this game having now all this potential to be held back. I am not bashing the game, I was actually wanting not to have this game fail agian.

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Originally Posted by Darkhaund

Well, why not just make it for the PS4 and problems solved!?

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The problem would not be solved. Just pushed out until the PS4 or the current PC specs are too old for new content. Hence the software development problem of compatibility vs taking advantage of bleeding edge technology. You can have both but the cost and complexity is pretty big still.

I don't really understand how you can say the PS3 is holding the game back without considering that many PCs are also going to hold the game back. They need to make the game work for CURRENT desktops. Yes, you can upgrade desktops, but once they lay down a benchmark they can't just say "Okay, everyone buy a new graphics card, we're going to make it look better." They have to keep the game working for older desktops that are within the original required specs.

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Originally Posted by Darkhaund

Fair enough dude fair enough!
It is just that I am concerned about this game having now all this potential to be held back. I am not bashing the game, I was actually wanting not to have this game fail agian.

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The game will not fail. SE has invested far too much time, money, and manpower in FFXIV.

This entire "hardware" debate is stupid as hell. Why?

Because SE owns the "software"! The hardware is a 3rd party. The software can be adapted as needed to fit the hardware over multiple platforms.

Honestly we ALL should see this for ourselves based on ffxiv a year ago, ffxiv now, and ffxiv future. How many frikin iterations of examples do ppl need?

Lets stop collectively being dumbasses and let SE do THEIR job.

The multitude of "waaaa omfg /slitwrists SE i hate jumping/exp/ui/battle/etc. " are overly done and need to stop. Too many ppl taking a simple opinion of their own and over dramaticizing it into an unrealistic doomsday post thats annoying.

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Originally Posted by Darkhaund

I have all the right to express my concerns.
I like the game and I just dont want to see it suffer or held back because it is being ported on an older system.

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In 5 years, it will still need to run on 5-year-old PCs.
How is porting it to PS3 now going to cause a new problem?

SE has given enough information to show that the graphics will be scalable to lower-end PCs than the current minimum requirements. When that is done, lower-end hardware will cease to be a problem.

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Originally Posted by Rjain

First mayor Failure of FFXIVille was a pretty cool guy.

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Eh destrois games and doesn't afraid of anything!

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Originally Posted by Lerris

In 5 years, it will still need to run on 5-year-old PCs.
How is porting it to PS3 now going to cause a new problem?

SE has given enough information to show that the graphics will be scalable to lower-end PCs than the current minimum requirements. When that is done, lower-end hardware will cease to be a problem.

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I do think the Ps3 will put limits on some areas. but so does developing just for hi or low end Pcs in other respects..
But I generally agreed it hopefully wont be an issue that holds back the visuals and size of the game.

But I'm far more interested in knowing if that for those of us without Hardware issues, we'll get a nice shiny Dx11 Version, So we can get something as dark an good looking as that concept screenshot..
Not something on par or less impressive then what we have now.

Final Fantasy is a console franchise, deal with it!

Just because they are releasing on PS3 doesn't mean they won't release a superior version on a future console. Just look what they're doing with Dragon Quest X. Wii, and Wii U versions.

The reason is obvious: Because the Xbox Live support would require an extra subscription in addition to other layers of BS, and even then, MS has so many restrictions on Live that it would be a headache to get around them for the 15 people in the US who might be interested in this game and don't have a PS3 or Comp capable of running it...

I am not going to bother reading all the ridiculous things people have posted, but what some choose to interpret as PS3 limitations has led to the biggest game improvement that is happening. The new engine will be better in all aspects. It will allow for better, smoother, less resource intensive graphics on high end PCs, and it will allow for great graphics on the PS3 and on lower end machines. That wouldn't have happened if not for the development problems they ran into with the PS3. Everybody will win.

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Originally Posted by Darkhaund

Why are you releasing this game and making the same mistake once again? At this point it might even be smarter to wait for hte NEXT PS4 or the Next Xbox? I am really dissapointed on this decision.

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You're assuming there will be a PS4 or Next Xbox at some point. Believe it or not, both those consoles lost a lot of money for their respective companies. While I'm sure both Microsoft and Sony will eventually come out with new systems, I doubt they are in any rush.

I would like XIV to stay on PC till the new consoles come out. Then yes, port, port the piss out of it. But porting to the ps3 or 360 well only hold back the PC version when the new consoles come out 2 years later. I agree with everything OP said. Don't port to PS3...just wait 2 more years then port. :)

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Originally Posted by Ark_mage2

I am not going to bother reading all the ridiculous things people have posted, but what some choose to interpret as PS3 limitations has led to the biggest game improvement that is happening. The new engine will be better in all aspects. It will allow for better, smoother, less resource intensive graphics on high end PCs, and it will allow for great graphics on the PS3 and on lower end machines. That wouldn't have happened if not for the development problems they ran into with the PS3. Everybody will win.

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But if they never planed to release for PS3 in the 1st place then these problems would have never been an issues in the 1st place?

God damn, dont people learn to read some of these replys.

The PS3 version of FFXIV will be made and look like SE want it to, the PC version can be UPGRADED easily with no issues at all, the PS3 will not limit anything besides graphics AND THAT WILL ONLY EFFECT THE PS3 USERS.

The only thing that the PC and PS3 version will have in common is the way the game mechanics work, besides that they can both look completely different.

I sense a Microsoft fanboy.