immortal flames unplayable

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Originally Posted by Februs

I don't know who started it, and I don't care, but it's gotten to the point where we spend the entire match looking out for them and then grudge cycling when they inevitably do something stupid.

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Oh, Mael can be stupid too, but now they're our actual competition.

I've given up trying to find reasons for it. It's pretty much universally agreed now though that the Adders are just there to piss in everybody's cereal. I can't remember a single match lately where I've gone and thought, "Damn, Adder, that was actually a good move." Most of the time they're just doing stupid shit and we beg and hope that their salt is kept to a minimum. Sometimes they perform well. Most of the time, though, I only see them in third, as indicated here:

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Originally Posted by Guesswhat

Are flames on your datacenter anything like this:

http://i.imgur.com/XF8E4cK.png

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Honestly, I still feel this pain from slaughter and the Flames. This was usually my weekly performance rate during the 72 man games when slaughter was still a thing. I never want a repeat of that again in my life.

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Originally Posted by Chaelyn

Snippity

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I feel it's more of a cycle, because there was a time where Mael teams were mostly sucking it up not too long ago and adders were winning way over their share of matches.

My theory is that the bad to average players see a gc winning too often and they jump ship. This is fine at first, but then the top gc gets so many baddies wearing their colours that suddenly it's a crapshoot when you don't go premade because you will end up with several of these idiots that don't realise that they were the reason their old gc was losing.

So now your gc is losing and the bads watch another team take the top spot as the team to beat. Then they transfer again.

It's a cycle that won't end. Soon the adders dregs will be clogging up the Maelstrom and flames queues and adders will get some semblance of teamwork back in their game.

It can and will happen to all of us. Just stay loyal and wait for it to equalise.

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Originally Posted by Carstien

I feel it's more of a cycle, because there was a time where Mael teams were mostly sucking it up not too long ago and adders were winning way over their share of matches.

It's a cycle that won't end. Soon the adders dregs will be clogging up the Maelstrom and flames queues and adders will get some semblance of teamwork back in their game.

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Yea I agree there, Mael on Primal have not been doing very well since last week...I even go into some 24 mans with 4+ premades and we still can't pull anything off cause we just get attacked when we're in 3rd even. There's also some Famfrit Flames premade that loves to camp Maels for whatever reason.

Dreading the day the Flames become bad again, although from my past experience, I've rarely seen anyone voluntarily switch to Flames. That might change because it feels like we're slowly becoming the dominant GC on the server, but who knows.

I have noticed that the Adders and Mael seem to focus on us Flames a lot. For no good reason. Also, OP, I think I was in a match with you earlier today! We crushed both of them lol

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Originally Posted by Februs

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Actually we do lose alot, and no duh its her group, they're apart of Immortal Flames. Most players now gave up on trying harder. If both me and her recorded our matches the same result would most likely happen. Flames suck on the Primal server. It has nothing to do of how you play (unless you purposely face plant into enemy grounds). You can be the top commanding officer in the nation but it wont help you command these players who just don't give two craps what you have to say. I'm guessing they're all in it for the esos and law. Me on the other hand come there for fun and effort into winning which gets easily bombarded with a complete lack of communication between players and stupid ideas being spatted out.

But of course there are players who have won plenty of times, maybe 20 in a row w/e, but I absolutely dare someone record 20 matches consecutively and win 5 times. I friggen dare you. Its not happening for anyone and if it ever did, there'd be 3 premade groups working together in a 3rd party chat program.

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Originally Posted by TheWaywardWind

I've given up trying to find reasons for it. It's pretty much universally agreed now though that the Adders are just there to piss in everybody's cereal.

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I know exactly what you mean. There are days when every match feels like it's Flames vs. Mael... and then there are those yellow guys who aren't really part of the match except to get in the way. It gets a little frustrating, because sometimes you want to just have a really good competitive match, but then there's that 3rd GC that goes out of their way to make sure it doesn't happen.

I also know what you mean about the Slaughter days. Secure was fine. I actually had a pretty solid win rate in there, but Slaughter killed it. The only reason my "career' with the Flames is even as low as 35 ish% is because of Slaughter. Before that I was above 40%. Clawing my percentage back up has been a a challenge.

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Originally Posted by Kurogaea

Actually we do lose alot, and no duh its her group, they're a part of Immortal Flames. Most players now gave up on trying harder. If both me and her recorded our matches the same result would most likely happen. Flames suck on the Primal server.

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You're gonna have to speak for yourself here, because you'll never convince me of this kind of nonsense.

Don't get me wrong, you're right that Flames have, by far, the most Eso/Law farmers out of every GC and can be a royal pain in the ass to lead, but saying the entire group sucks based on your personal bad experiences is ludicrous.

I've had hardly any problems with the Flames on Primal. My career winning % has been as high as 46%. Highest weekly % has been above 50%. I score in the 40's on an almost weekly basis when I PvP, and I've managed to keep my head above 30%. My time with Flames in Seize has actually increased my winning % back up to 35% since it's massive dip during Slaughter, and I was on a good roll before I stopped PvP'ing to dig into the new content (mainly Thordan Ex).

Personally, I'm not a big fan of leading the super derps, but when I have no choice, it is a rare match to have them completely ignore all outs. I'm not saying its easy, nor am I implying that I'm some kind of tactical genius, but I also won't claim that there a "complete lack of communication" either. Honestly, I'd like to see a match where no one communicated, because I've never seen that before. What I have seen (and I'm thinking is far more likely) is a group of pessimists starting an trend of negative comments in the chat box. I dunno about you, but, even if I'm not leading, I try to keep that kind of crap to a minimum because that is what loses matches. You'd be amazed at how much keeping positive helps the team win. Helps my matches all the time. Maybe yours are different, but given I'm not the only Flame with more 1st place than 2nd and 3rd (respectively, not combined), I don't think generalizing all the Flames by saying "they suck" is very accurate.

Also, what the heck does consecutive wins have to do with anything? Personally, my best winning streak (if memory serves) was closer to 10 matches, give or take one or two. Was an amazing week, and it was done purely with PUGs (cuz there are no Flame Premades on Diabolos).... but so what? Overall wins are counted, not consecutive wins. You could win one / lose one all week and that would still put you at a 50% win rate. So, your dare is fairly pointless and silly, because it wouldn't prove or disprove anything even if someone won 20 matches straight (they could win 20 and lose the next 50, for example).

TL;DR If you're having trouble keeping a solid win % with the Flames, than you should put the effort into at least looking for trends as to why your matches are so vastly different from mine (or people who have better than mine and end up in the weekly top 50), rather than issuing pointless dares and rambling about how all Flames must be bad because they're not dead carrying you to a higher Win bracket.

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Originally Posted by Februs

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They take too long to react. Last 24 man match I had, we retreated to late, ganked at the wrong times, leaving Adders and Mael to ambush us, and near end game its the absolute worse, for where you can see which team is winning, no one notices till its too late. Also a good number of players who run out into the field yada yada you know. Only matches I won for a loooong time were the intense ones which everyteam is giving it their all and near endgame points but it rarely happens now and then (to me anyway). When it did happen the feeling would be drowned out with every loss afterwards, its like eating cake (idk your favorite) then chugging a glass of fermented bean juice (healthy barf basically).

Btw, theres a wolves den event at 8pm apparently for synched battles. They needs people to participate :/

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Originally Posted by Kurogaea

Actually we do lose alot, and no duh its her group, they're apart of Immortal Flames. Most players now gave up on trying harder. If both me and her recorded our matches the same result would most likely happen. Flames suck on the Primal server.

But of course there are players who have won plenty of times, maybe 20 in a row w/e, but I absolutely dare someone record 20 matches consecutively and win 5 times. I friggen dare you. Its not happening for anyone and if it ever did, there'd be 3 premade groups working together in a 3rd party chat program.

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Honestly, speak for yourself.

It's funny you mention all of this, but my win percentage and overall performance with the Flames the past few weeks and since Seize came out has increased dramatically. You speak of the fact that we can't win multiple times in a row, but I won six games in a row just the other day, without any premades. Granted, 3 of them were 24 man, but we had no voice chat and no other means of co-ordinating other than following calls. I don't know what else to tell you except the fact that you must log in during a time of the day when all of the bad players log on.

I log on and every single day now the Flames have been pretty steadily sweeping their way to victory. My weekly performance this week so far is 15-3-3. Last week was about the same. The Flames are now probably the dominant GC on the server, with Mael right next to us. Don't believe me? Look at the Frontline standings on the high scores for Primal. Nothing but Immortal Flames and Maelstrom. There's barely an Adder to be found.

If we were still in the days of Slaughter, I would agree with you. The Flames were utter trash in slaughter; we were pretty much there solely for kill fodder while Adders and Maels duked it out over first. But nowadays? Nah. The Flames win pretty handily.

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Originally Posted by TheWaywardWind

Stuff

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During the day when the bad players are on? So what you play at night? Ok, so your telling me if that I play in the evening everday I should have a better win ratio than:

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...11231390_o.jpg (like 2 months back I took this, after it was down to 10% win ratios)

Alright then. I'll take your word on that. Only evening matches till the week is over and I'll update. currently my overall (GC) peformance is this: https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...10072148_o.jpg

You're saying the Flames suck, yet you have a near-average win ratio with them? I don't think you know what the word "suck" means.

An average win ratio is 33.3%, meaning you first, second, and third place wins should all be split about evenly. If your win average is at 30%, that tells me that your performance and win rate is only slightly below average. I would hardly call that "sucking."

I play all times throughout the day. Either way, we must play at different times, because my weekly win rate is at like 60%+.

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Originally Posted by TheWaywardWind

You're saying the Flames suck, yet you have a near-average win ratio with them? I don't think you know what the word "suck" means.

An average win ratio is 33.3%, meaning you first, second, and third place wins should all be split about evenly. If your win average is at 30%, that tells me that your performance and win rate is only slightly below average. I would hardly call that "sucking."

I play all times throughout the day. Either way, we must play at different times, because my weekly win rate is at like 60%+.

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The near average mostly deviated from Borderlands matches, not Sieze. In fact I enjoyed Borderlands alot more as it was simplified fun and didn't require too much coordination from large groups. Sieze on the otherhand, yeah. I also play often since my schedule is veeeeerry flexible, so I can play till morning to around midnight, mostly getting my ranks up but also checking for fluctuations in wins and losses around certain times. I thought it was night time at first which was the Flame's glory hour but I lost a lot then, though apparently that has changed this time around. I'll just have to see now. :/

I think most people will agree that Secure was far more enjoyable than Seize or Slaughter, but even so, we can't generalize the GC based off one battle mode and a few battles. Even if most of those are from Secure, you still performed well. There's nothing indicating to me here that the Flames are terrible, just that you get unlucky with when you play.

I could post my win rate for the week but it'd be redundant. Even still, it just goes to show the dynamic of PvP and how people can experience things differently.

As much as we shit all over Adders in this thread (because for the most part the mass majority of them are terrible), I'm sure there are a few Adders who come out with decent win ratios. I just never see them.

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Originally Posted by TheWaywardWind

They've fallen from grace in Slaughter really hard and now I barely ever see them win.

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I guess its because slaughter is just a TDM w/o any stategy(BLM lvl50 PvE AoE rotation on middle node says hi, it will always yeld atleast one kill), now we are back to tactial mode and you start to see the downhill due that.

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Originally Posted by Kurogaea

They take too long to react. Last 24 man match I had, we retreated to late, ganked at the wrong times, leaving Adders and Mael to ambush us

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I can at least relate to this. It's not that I've never seen this kind of bad play before. I do, and more frequently than I'd like (my winning % would be back above 40 by now if it weren't for such nonsense), but I don't take the few occasions of this kind of silliness as the standard of play.I've had just as many matches in which the Flames were on point and made good calls as I have where they've ran around like ducks in a shooting yard. Even if they are a little slow responding to changes (which they frequently are) that's no excuse to just give up. What people don't understand is that all of the GC's have the potential to be gun shy (unless using 3rd party chat), so if Flames were a bit slow on the uptake there will be a chance to make it up later. The only time that chance will slip us by is if we just flip table and give up.

The bottom line for me is that negativity (especially in chat) fuels the cycle of bad play. Every single match I've been in where there was seemingly no chance for the Flames to shine and show that they're not total dunces were matches where the players themselves gave up because they automatically assumed that the "Flames suck" and were gonna lose anyway. That's nonsense and turns into a self-fulfilling prophecy. If everyone in the chat is constantly saying crap like "gg," "Flames suck," "We're gonna lose anyway," or (my personal favorite) "we should just feed kills to get the match over with faster," than obviously you're going to lose. That many negative voices even encourage the good players to give up because they are basically being told outright that their entire team doesn't have their back. That's why, instead of filling the chat box with complaints (even if things are going badly), I find it's a much better option to encourage people not to give up or assume the worst. It doesn't work every time (It seems there are some people out there that just want to be negative and lose, for whatever reason), but the results are much better than adding to the negativity. Even if you lose, it's not such a sour loss.

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Originally Posted by Kurogaea

Btw, theres a wolves den event at 8pm apparently for synched battles. They needs people to participate :/

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I know, but I'm in a different time zone and missed it =/ It will be pretty much over already before I even get home. Makes me sad.

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Originally Posted by Kurogaea

I thought it was night time at first which was the Flame's glory hour but I lost a lot then, though apparently that has changed this time around. I'll just have to see now. :/

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I do find that time of day makes a difference (both for ques and for victory rate). My schedule is fairly strict, so I only play at night. It's gone in cycles, but for the most part my evening matches have gone substantially better than my day matches. Keep in mind though, that my "evening" is most likely the very early morning for you (like, anywhere between 1am - 3am). Different time bracket means a different pool of players. I typically see a lot of the same faces day to day (even though I'm never in a pre-made), and that tends to maintain a certain status quo. I can more or less expect matches to go a certain way. However, when I do get an entire team of people who are unfamiliar, things get shaken up quite a bit. Maybe the same kind of thing accounts for your discrepancy.

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Originally Posted by Kurogaea

During the day when the bad players are on? So what you play at night? Ok, so your telling me if that I play in the evening everday I should have a better win ratio than:

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...11231390_o.jpg

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If you do play mostly at night your first place finishes should increase yeah. I play at around 9 pm to 2 am (eastern) and if we don't win as Maelstrom its almost always cause Flames won. Atm as a Maelstrom I'm 15-8-7 for the week so roughly a 50% 1st place win rate atm, which is good considering they are ALL solo queues, but far from being omnipotent as a GC. Clearly some of the other GCs are winning with some sort of consistency if my rate isnt higher and I can tell you it aint the adders >.>

Pretty much this but Adders on Primal. We have our nice hard fought wins when people listen. Premades also carry randomly but nothing big lately unfortunately. SE should remove the Eso from the fights so the bad teams will lose their bad players.