Yeah it's way late to mention this now but, still no rework for this, Square...?

Sorry to nitpick, but the 1.0 story doesn't exist anymore. I think you mean the 2.0 story.

And it's a non-issue and they shouldn't waste resources on it. Realize that you are in a group with 7 other people who have stuff to do and have some consideration, either watch the cutscenes later, or watch them during and let the party leave you behind.

The first thing i did after hitting 60 and a decent ilevel was go back and solo these two dungeons, so I could watch all the cutscenes and see the battles properly. It was actually a little challenging, especially Nero and Livia, but immensely satisfying.

If anyone on Adamantoise needs these, look me up and I'd be happy to run you through them; I'm usually on evenings or late nights EST.

I will tell you this right now: if they force people to watch the cutscenes then no one will run the story roulette anymore, period. At which point you won't have enough people to clear the content.

My wife joined up much later too and had to run those dungeons the same way. She watched the CS while the party steamrolled every fight without here. If she want's to also do the fights she can run through it again.

That's just the way it is, and it's why HW dungeons do not feature so many CS during the actual runs.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Just make an undersized party. You don't need 8 level 60's to wreck either of these dungeons.

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I'm with Ashkendor on this. I'm sure people in your FC will be willing to lend a hand and their time so you can have an enjoyable experience. I personally run the roulette because it's a relatively quick 200k exp on a 50+ job. If I was forced to watch cutscenes, I'd stop doing the roulette and go do FATEs.

I would do it for friends, I would do it for fc mates - Hell no would I sit there and watch cutscenes with randoms for what is it 100ish k exp hell even if it was 200k xp I would get more than that in a 30 minute dungeon - sometimes I do it for a change of pace and its quick still not really efficient xp wise but to make a dungeon run for 45-60 minutes would make no one run it with a random group and then you will depend on a full group of new people hopefully all queuing at the same time.

So lets look at the fall out of your suggestion because the roulette was made to avoid the very situation I am going to say.

Once upon a time new people excited with the game finally getting to the end of the original MSQ queue saying over 30 minutes - 1hr passes, 2hr passes no one is queuing them. Said new people are then officially stuck because they can no longer do the story to progress - SE comes to the rescue allows people to skip cutscenes and creates the roulettes and gives veterans rewards for helping out new people - new people complain that veterans are forcing ahead so new people have 2 choices watch the cutscenes and then go back to actually experience the bosses another time or skip cutscenes to be involved in the fights. But little do these new players know a much uglier fate awaits them if they force veterans to watch cutscenes because then they will get nowhere as veterans will no longer queue and then complain to SE all over again.

So please stop these posts because they will just go full circle and SE know it and will just ignore them as they can't win any which way.

Something that the OP seems to be forgetting is the viewpoint of the rest of the party. Why should 7 of the people have their dungeon, essentially held hostage, because 1 member wants to watch the cut scenes then and there? I've run these with new people plenty of times, and every time the group lets that person know that we aren't stopping.

Personally, I've stayed behind when we've had new players in the party, standing by their side until the "watching cutsene" symbol is gone from their name (including waiting after the final boss until they're out of that cutscene so I can say 'bye and enjoy' before leaving). Some people skip the cutscenes quickly, and we catch up, and other people watch the entirety and I'll show them where to go afterwards. Sure, if the rest of the party run ahead, we're bound to get locked out of boss fights, but at least they won't be running around without a clue of where to go, and we have at least a chance to catch up while the rest of the team fight the boss. (And in the case of the Castrum and Praetorium, two people missing -- even if one of them is a tank -- isn't going to make or break the run.)

But the best thing to do when you want to run those for the first time, especially if you want to watch all the cutscenes when they happen instead of after the entire 2.0 ending credit roll, is to ask FC and Linkshell mates to come with you on a cutscene run -- or make a PF listing for it. Also, both of those options will probably fill up faster if you say you're willing to go Undersized, since you won't need a full team of 8 for that -- your contribution to the fighting won't be as great, but it's usually easier to find three or four people willing to wait while you watch cutscenes than it is to find seven of them.

you see, as much as a 'good idea' being forced to wait for the new player may sound to you, lets truly think about this.

the MSQ dungeons are still one of the longest dungeons to do, due to there size, since they are sequenced like a proper mission, if your forcing players to be unable to move, what do you honestly think will happen?, because i can harbour a very strong guess that as soon as the 'a player is new to the duty' they would take the 30 min penalty, because if a player is a slow reader then the dungeon can possibly time out. wasting everyones time.

the reason the roulette was there was to help new players. when spessafied, the debs agreed it was wrong to kick someone for watching the cutscenesbut didn't say anything to continuing the dungeon. if the forced cutscenes were in place, they would need a grater carrot to be dangled infant of us then gil and poetics, because of the possibility of time out and trolls who would not move your 'cutscenes do not last forever' is not true. as long as you place a input into the game you cannot be kicked from a duty, this includes cutscenes, at minimum for MSQ there is a 20 min wait before booting you out of the dungeon, so if you think about it they can wait almost 20 mins advance the text and then they have a 20 min window again, that means the intro can hold players hostage for the complete time of the duty,

if you wonder why players are 'rude' on that mission it is because it can take MUCH longer then it needs to, back in 2.0 when it was relevant content, no-one was willing to do it for the philosify tomes, because it took far to long to get into the instance, and once in, due to the majority of new players some wouldn't leave the cutscenes hoping you to carry them.


there is a reason as to why, you can re watch dungeon cutscenes in the 'unending journey' in the inn,

i see this as a horrid idea, i do wait for some players but some do never move from cutscenes expecting a carry. if you wish to watch the cutscene in the MSQ dungeons recruit your own party from PF or friends who are willing to wait from your LS and FC, but i see it as very selfish to FORCE 7 random players to wait for you.

I think first timers (or people who haven't cleared it yet) are placed onto a priority pool where they'll A) Have shorter queue times and B) Grouped with other players like them.

Obviously you can't always have the best case scenario and forcing the entire group to watch cutscenes or removing its incentives is impractical and would make things even slower for newer players.

I wouldn't mind an optional one-off solo mode for these two dungeons though, where the player/enemies will be properly synced and you'll have NPC companion(s) to fill the gaps.

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Originally Posted by Evaddaragon

August 2013: When CM and Prae got released, we still skipped cutscenes. Why? The content was tuned so that our ilvls 45-50 would actually run out of time if we'd watch them.

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I'm playing that game since the closed beta and my current main char since day one of the open beta. I really can't remember such an issue.

Maybe with ppl that are performing so bad, like that ones who are still not able to beat faust in A1 normal. But in general, there wasn't an issue.

I also didn't get to enjoy the story on my first run. But don't sit there and act like people speed running it are the only selfish ones. The reason I didn't complain is because I have empathy and i put myself in their shoes. They've probably done this 10000000 times, I can watch it later.

When I'm running with a new person now, I don't mind waiting. Because I remember how I wouldve liked to see the story.

Selfishness and apathy goes both ways not just one. You're only seeing it from your side OP.

I agree with the people saying your FC is the best way to go. It's a bad design and assuming added incentives wouldn't work, there isn't a way to keep everyone happy.

A small improvement that wouldn't inconvenience anyone would be to improve the experience of watching the cut-scenes at the inn. At the moment, each little piece has to be clicked on separately and some segments are hard to find. A 'play-all' option for each section of the story would be a nice addition.

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Originally Posted by Evaddaragon

August 2013: When CM and Prae got released, we still skipped cutscenes. Why? The content was tuned so that our ilvls 45-50 would actually run out of time if we'd watch them. No, seriously.

Asking seven strangers to wait for one? It's just not going to happen. Expecting otherwise simply is unrealistic.

As others said, there are alternate methods: The Party Finder, or an Undersized Party. Indeed, I'm pretty sure a level 60 tank with ilvl170+ can actually solo CM and Prae.

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I don't know what kind of groups you were in but that was never an issue, if you seriously took that long with CSs you may needed to rethink how you're playing the game, None of there were even that long, The only way you would run out of time is if everyone watched the CSs and stood in them for 10-20 mins each time. shouldn't have to ask 7 strangers to be considerate, if time is an issue then you shouldn't have qued up to begin with, in a story dungeon.

It's bad design all over. People advocating for forcing others to watch cutscenes are just asking for hour long queue times when no one wants to watch 30 mins of cutscenes for very little reward at all.

If you want to go thru It with cutscenes make a of or an FC group for it. There are ways to do it. DF is not one of them.

I did it back in August this year an just watched all the CS in the Raid. After that I joined again to see the Boss fights.
It was a really bad design back in the days. Good that in current Content CS are mostly at leaving a Dungeon/Trial.

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Originally Posted by Blood-Aki

I don't know what kind of groups you were in but that was never an issue, if you seriously took that long with CSs you may needed to rethink how you're playing the game, None of there were even that long, The only way you would run out of time is if everyone watched the CSs and stood in them for 10-20 mins each time. shouldn't have to ask 7 strangers to be considerate, if time is an issue then you shouldn't have qued up to begin with, in a story dungeon.

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I've never timed out before, but I was once in a Praetorium group that decided to let the new players watch their cutscenes and one of them took nearly 20 minutes per scene. The other two took their time watching and they were still done in about five minutes each so we ended up taking wildly long periods of time waiting on one guy. He wouldn't respond when we tried addressing him either and tended to die a lot in every boss fight. I could never decide if he was a troll, a bot, or merely an asshole, but he certainly ruined everyone's good time, including the other new players because we spent so much time standing around waiting for him. So it does happen.

http://i.imgur.com/skUoogC.jpg

idk how many times ive reposted this. the solution is ingame, just no one wants to use it. There are enough friendly players ingame that may by chance see the PF party with the comment "No Cutscene skipping" and think "hmmm i was asked to skip back in the day, maybe i should go back and enjoy it with this party."

You will probably wait 1-2 hours but it will be worth it.

I'm a bit torn on this one honestly. I understand why there's a roulette for these two. It's because otherwise, who in the world would want to go back and do these (aside from FC's helping each other, but not everyone has this option). Both of them are also a bit complex in the series of events you need to do. Not that they couldn't figure it out, but I can imagine an entire group of totally clueless people taking over an hour to figure out the mechanics.

With the CURRENT mentality going around with all the speed runners, I usually ask if anyone's new and if so, that newcomer's skip the cutscenes (before we start running things). I tell them that people won't wait around otherwise and it's best to get to know the mechanics of the dungeon and how it works by following the group, then go back and watch. One player during a run however contradicted me saying that they should do nothing and just watch all the cutscenes all the way through and by the time they're done, we should be complete with the dungeon (but once again, I think it's pointless to do this as then they player will have zero clue how to run the dungeon when they go back at a higher level to get the roulette xp and poetic's).

I think player's should be able to watch the cutscenes, but I will also say... they are indeed quite long... I waited for someone once and we ended up getting all 7 other players to sync up the manderville dance waiting before fighting ultima. But yea... we waited for about 8 min. Each cutscene is like, 5-10 minutes. For people who've played through and are grinding xp and poetics, I can understand not wanting to take an hour on this dungeon. My first time running it, I was cut out of a few boss fights and I WAS skipping cutscenes. They were just moving so fast, I couldn't even keep up after clicking the "skip cutscene" option. So far though, I've not run into a single new player to those dungeon's that didn't appreciate my advice. The only one's that disliked my mindset to slow us down maybe an extra 5 min total were the ahole jerk speed runners.

And honestly, I love my FC because whenever a newer member reaches that point, our most active are tanks and healers. So we often bring in both tanks and both healers to these and only get DPS to join us on the sync if we don't have any extra online. So with this being the case, we run the dungeon at whatever pace is needed and if the jerks want to complain, we have the majority vote. They can leave if they dislike it and miss out on the daily roulette. Granted, we probably turn these dungeon runs from 20 min long speed runs to MAYBE 25 (30 at most if we wipe for some odd reason or if we need to give explanations). We're still efficient speed runners. Just not jerks who leave half the party behind on elevators for the sake of "speed running".

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Originally Posted by 8710SqualI

So my question is, does Square plan to do some work around this to make the cutscenes. Preferably FORCE those to watch them so people can actually PARTICIPATE in the battles?

Yes, force others. My gf didn't even get to enjoy the boss fights in Praetorium tonight because they all rushed ahead!

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This will never happen if they made it so people wer forced to watch it with the new people no one would join.

The Cut scenes aren't on auto play you have to click to progress them. This means that people can troll by just not doing any thing you'll be caught in a limbo. Not being able to do anything not to mention you cant even report it because you cant get to the report options.

The roulette is there so new people can get it done if they did this people would never do it because theys be too scared to do it.

Simple fix: Place the cutscene at the completion of the entry quest

These dungeons can easily be completed without the players watching the cutscenes helping.

Back when I first started after ARR was released this was the norm.

Those arguing "well I can't experience the whole thing because I miss out of fighting trash" are just selfish.

If you want to watch cutscenes than go for it. But if you want everybody to wai to kill trash and spend an hour in a dungeon for you than no make your own group.

Have you tried running this as unsync'd?

1-2 lvl 60s (depending on class) should be able to destroy this dungeon. Then you can watch all the cutscenes at your own leisure.

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

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What (s)he said. Add that the wonders of the DF would also randomnize a few things.

Really funny how people jump to conclusions and assume it's about MY playstyle (and I've been playing since 1.0, but that's another story) when there were 8 people in the group, but oh well.

They really should just make versions that have no xp or rewards which could be soloed or small-grouped for story completion only. The problem with a lot of replies in this thread is that the content ISN'T irrelevant. It is essential to story progression for new players. We want to give new players a reason to stay by letting them experience the epic storyline and stand up against the villains. We don't want to drive them away with the mentality found in speedruns.

how is skipping cut scenes, gathering mobs, killing them and proceeding to boss' speed running? is it solely because we over gear the places and can grab more than a pack or 2 at a time?
now Amdapor Keep before they added the barriers on boss rooms, where a tank would sacrafice himself while the party ran by safely. healer rez's, kill boss, repeat skipping all trash via sac pulls. that was speed running

As the 2.0 storyline becomes more and more dated, and less people are running it, I wouldn't be surprised if devs change all the story line duties into solo instances with NPC allies as your party. Course I wouldn't expect this kind of drastic change until at least 5.0.

Till then however, reality is that most DF parties won't be willing to wait, so you're unfortunately left with either getting friends/FC to help you, or spending a few days hoping a PF will fill up.

I do agree with you though, that watching the cutscene with a full party is a lot more enjoyable than watching it in the inn, it's more immersive and you get to see everyone in the party in several of the cutscenes.