So its 0-2 in the male female glamour department, yay?

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Originally Posted by Ladon

What exactly are you expecting here? What if the 'official response' is simply that the design team likes to design female gear over male gear?

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Then let the design team give us that as the official response, instead of the community team telling us that they are going to work on better equality and then going mysteriously silent when we get an update which suggests that they'll be adding ~10 new female-only equippable items, especially right after a lacklustre event set was released which favoured female characters.

If they want to give me a free name change and fantasia and put a notice on character creation that male characters won't have as many items, I will stop complaining about this issue immediately. I feel cheated because it was never communicated to me at the beginning that the design team was going to start locking me out from more and more glamour options with every subsequent patch.

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Originally Posted by Ladon

What exactly are you expecting here? What if the 'official response' is simply that the design team likes to design female gear over male gear? Are you just going to whine about it being 2015 and some nonsense about equality in a virtual world?

Your subscription affords you the same content as everyone else. There are no restrictions placed on you about what gender you play in the game other than YOUR choices. People around here really need to stop acting like it is the developers that are making these choices for you.

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TY bout time someone said something smart

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Originally Posted by Ladon

People around here really need to stop acting like it is the developers that are making these choices for you.

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They actually are making these choices. If they are too lazy to create the male version of glamours, they could at least allow our male characters to wear the female one. Simple. I want to wear Minfilia's gear on my male character! Well not really, but I want the option. :)

Why am I starting to feel like I am playing F2P or B2P game instead of game with monthly subscription + bonus retainer + base game/expansion.
They are trying how far they can go with the cash shop again and FF is starting to be quite an expensive game for someone who likes to collect stuff.

For people who thinks there are a lot more females than males in game and that's why they focus more on girls fashion : http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ea-Census-2014

(it's for 2013/2014 but it gives a global idea)

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Originally Posted by Blood-Aki

Guys aren't "neglected" it just seems most of the playerbase are female characters.

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If the majority of PCs were male, then you'd be ok with mostly male exclusive glamours? If that ever happened, people would be on here crying sexism.

I understand why those with female characters are being so negative ("I chose correctly, so you shouldn't complain you stubbornly want to keep playing a male!") but given that players are roughly 50:50 split between the genders I would wager that the other half of the community would prefer to have fair treatment. A guy might not want to dress up in a full bunny costume - which should be his decision as an individual - but perhaps he wouldn't mind having access to a pair of cuffs (example) for another glamour he wants to create in his own style. Most male characters probably wouldn't want to pay to dress up as Minfilia, but wouldn't it be fairer to at least announce a gender-locked male-only Aymeric or Cid costume alongside it, under the circumstances?

If you play a female character and feel smug that this gives you the right to use more clothing than me because I play a male, that's one thing. What if the design team decides that actually, they find female Miqo'te cutest and they aren't going to bother making the next set of glamours fit female Elezen or Lalafell physiques? They have the capability to add more race-locked gear already. It's a slippery slope as soon as you start campaigning against fair treatment for everyone.

I'm ignoring the point that most actual players are men who want to look at cute girls since there are no grounds for making this claim whatsoever other than personal prejudice.

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Originally Posted by Hypa

If the majority of PCs were male, then you'd be ok with mostly male exclusive glamours? If that ever happened, people would be on here crying sexism.

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i don't cry about trival things that do not go my way, so no, and people are already here crying about it. which is why this topic as well as a few others exist to begin with. "waaaah i want more male gear, i want female gear on males this is unfair!" etc.

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Originally Posted by BreathlessTao

It's a little mixed up there - are you saying most of the players are female, or most of the player characters are female? Because we really have no proof of the first one, so we can't say that for sure one way or another. And as for the latter one, the devs themselves provided the evidence that the gender distribution overall is practically half-and-half:
http://www.finalfantasyxiv.com/Eorze...N_Census_L.PNG
...especially very much so in Japan, which makes this very significant and apparent female bias in clothes design even more interesting.

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Originally Posted by Blood-Aki

You should probably read it again, as i specfically said female CHARACTERS, obviously they do not know the gender behind the characters as that would be silly to compare. as for the that chart 50/38/64 is higher then 50/62/36 albeit small, it still classifes as "most" and that isn't including after that was taken, or how many are RMT who simply spam the 1st choice which is hyur male midlander.

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Its still not "most". Thats not how these percentages work. NA has more players than EU. So that 62% male on NA is far more characters than the 64% female on EU servers. And with JP at an even split that means there are more male characters in this game than female yet females get catered to far more when it comes to glamours.

Just as an example without knowing actual population numbers.
That 62% male on NA equals 1 million male characters.
But that 64% female on EU only equals 500k female characters.
There are more male characters.

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Originally Posted by Ulathskullsplitter

Its still not "most". Thats not how these percentages work. NA has more players than EU. So that 62% male on NA is far more characters than the 64% female on EU servers. And with JP at an even split that means there are more male characters in this game than female yet females get catered to far more when it comes to glamours.

Just as an example without knowing actual population numbers.
That 62% male on NA equals 1 million male characters.
But that 64% female on EU only equals 500k female characters.
There are more male characters.

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Much like i tried to explain this to someone who was in pure denial about it, they do not fitler the bots that make the 1st choice you can spam, which is Hyur male midlander and they are in the thousands. That is where a lot of the "male" population is being counted. so we will never get a "true" definitive number. but i am positive males do not come close to outnumbering female characters, or they would have more male outfits.

I have no problem with people wanting more male styled outfits just don't get upset about it if it never comes to pass to get more then what most of their players are.

Just going in circles now.

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Originally Posted by Ulathskullsplitter

Its still not "most". Thats not how these percentages work. NA has more players than EU. So that 62% male on NA is far more characters than the 64% female on EU servers. And with JP at an even split that means there are more male characters in this game than female yet females get catered to far more when it comes to glamours.

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To get the outfit in the Valentine's event 2 years ago, you had to get bitter chocolate from a male character and pure chocolate from a female character. Everyone was shouting for bitter chocolate, and on the marketboard bitter chocolate sold for 5 times the amount of pure. Either a lot more people who play female characters actually play the game more often, or people who play female characters are more likely to care about glamours. If was making stuff to sell on the mogstation, I would focus on female stuff too because it will sell more.

All of this is circumstantial though. Stereotyping here but I can see why a smaller number of males of the type campaigning for 'more masculine gear' in the other thread would be participating in a Valentine's Day event on a US-based server. Similarly it's true that many RMTs might pick the default model - but on my old server a lot of them were Lalafell, so actually that's not always the case. And regardless, RMT isn't such a huge problem on Japanese worlds (the handful of RMT bots use English clients) yet even there, where there's a stereotype of people wanting to play as cute girls, the gender ratio published by Square-Enix shows a flat 50:50. The decision to tailor content towards players with female characters is not a well-researched plan. Surely they would at least attempt to justify it with the figures they themselves published if it was.

In any case, if they are seriously focusing on female characters as part of their strategy, I want them to say so and let us know where we stand. Instead of - you know - saying the exact opposite and then going silent for months as the situation worsens.

Bottom line is the person behind the male character is a paying customer too. If they want more glamour options, who cares? Let them ask for it.

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Originally Posted by AnaviAnael

Bottom line is the person behind the male character is a paying customer too. If they want more glamour options, who cares? Let them ask for it.

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I don't think it's about being a paying customer as, well, this set is entirely independent from your subscription fee. What I don't understand is why couldn't they have put a male character's set? Surely it wouldn't take too much effort, and it would generate you a ton of money. I don't want to see Ser Aymeric's armour appear in the Mogstation as he's a current and very important character, his armour is also very over the top (but so is Minfilia's I suppose, still don't like that they did that either), but I'll use it as an example. Some people playing male characters would likely die for that set, along with the hair. You could sell it for $40 and make a lot of money still, not that they should do that. I'd quit if they put something up for $40.

i see caster glams once we can get minfillia outfit and minfillia rp characters running around on balmung and whatever other rp servers there are if any

Actually, I think that MogStation only Gender locked gear is pretty smart. This will probably herald in other Gender locked Final Fantasy Gear sets that are MogStation only and gender locked (Rydia FF4 would be very popular). This means if your female and wand exclusive female only gender locked gear - you pay beyond your subscription for it. Isn't that fair? So anything that is Gender Exclusive can then be MogStation only. Make everything obtainable in game unisex and Gender exclusivity will be pay extra only.

You can't say that's not fair. I think that everyone would agree to that condition. If girls have to pay extra for all of their exclusive gear and males get shafted, who cares? Guys will still get the same amount with their sub.

And all the pieces of that bunny outfit are new. It's the alternative cleavage showing top you see already in the gold saucer, BLACK tights instead of red, and of course the shoes have to match the new tights. It's possible the tights will also be the dyeable part of these ones. Still a total gyp that this now makes 2 full sets of female exclusive gear in the Gold Saucer. Not cool.

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Originally Posted by Terrini

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Whatever happened to those being veteran rewards, or event items? I'd rather not see new sets implemented into the cash shop, they're actively taking away development from the main game for the benefit of no one but SE's wallets.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

I don't think it's about being a paying customer as, well, this set is entirely independent from your subscription fee. What I don't understand is why couldn't they have put a male character's set? Surely it wouldn't take too much effort, and it would generate you a ton of money. I don't want to see Ser Aymeric's armour appear in the Mogstation as he's a current and very important character, his armour is also very over the top (but so is Minfilia's I suppose, still don't like that they did that either), but I'll use it as an example. Some people playing male characters would likely die for that set, along with the hair. You could sell it for $40 and make a lot of money still, not that they should do that. I'd quit if they put something up for $40.

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$40? I'd quit too, lol. :D

I'm more commenting on what seems to be hostility towards people asking for male only glamours. I just don't get where it comes from.

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Originally Posted by AnaviAnael

$40? I'd quit too, lol. :D

I'm more commenting on what seems to be hostility towards people asking for male only glamours. I just don't get where it comes from.

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Well i'm certainly not being hostile, Some people just do not understand how majority vs minority works. IF you open a clothes shop in a town with 6 schools, 4 being female only, you're going to stock up on mostly female clothes as that is what most of your buyers will be, it would be foolish to stock up on more male outfits then female unless they want to go out of business. it works the same here, SE knows what most of their playerbase is and thus catering to it.

This is also why we will never see cross dressing as an option because this is a small minority that wants it, The male users are just getting defensive because they aren't accepting how it works. Has nothing to do with wanting male only glamours.

Too many posts to quote about the new Minfillia glamour being a purchase so I'll just say this for all those complaining.

First, it used to be that the seasonal stuff was something you worked your tail off for as a way to show A) you were in game and EARNED that item B)it was a way to show your support of actually being a sub during that time and was an exclusive for being such. Now, all of that is gone. You don't even HAVE to do the event. You can be lazy and just buy it. Kind of diminishes the event gear and items in my opinion. So the fact that this new piece is something you just BUY rather then the devs having to come up with an event, is just ludicrous to complain about. Just look at it as you don't have to do anything to earn it AND you don't have to wait months to a year to purchase it. /smh Irony

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Originally Posted by Blood-Aki

it works the same here, SE knows what most of their playerbase is and thus catering to it.

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If Square-Enix knows what their playerbase is, why are they formally publishing statistics which show their playerbase mainly picks male characters? If they know that a sizeable number are bots and have done the analysis and worked out how many - giving them a female majority overall - why wouldn't they adjust their own published figures to reflect that? It doesn't make a lick of sense.

All that's happening here is that someone on the design team is doing exactly what you're doing and assuming everyone else out there thinks like them. "I like looking at catgirls in bunny suits and don't like looking at men in bunny suits, so I'll cater for myself as I'm obviously in the majority."

All we're doing is asking them to take a closer look at balancing things fairly. It's not detracting from your gameplay experience in any way to ignore these threads.

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Originally Posted by Blood-Aki

Well i'm certainly not being hostile, Some people just do not understand how majority vs minority works.

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Which I understand. In fact, I think most people understand this. This doesn't mean SE should cater to one crowd and alienate the other, which I feel a lot of the dudes are feeling right now.

I will admit, a lot of the hostility comes from off these boards. This was debated in a free company on one of my alts, and the guy mentioning it was called a misogynist by a few of the female players.

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Originally Posted by Blood-Aki

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EXCEPT that irl you actually have other shops you could buy from
Or you can do online shopping
Or even make your own cloths
So the choices aren't limited

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Originally Posted by Blood-Aki

Well i'm certainly not being hostile, Some people just do not understand how majority vs minority works. IF you open a clothes shop in a town with 6 schools, 4 being female only, you're going to stock up on mostly female clothes as that is what most of your buyers will be, it would be foolish to stock up on more male outfits then female unless they want to go out of business. it works the same here, SE knows what most of their playerbase is and thus catering to it.

This is also why we will never see cross dressing as an option because this is a small minority that wants it, The male users are just getting defensive because they aren't accepting how it works. Has nothing to do with wanting male only glamours.

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So tell me about all the stores that only stock clothes in bitty person sizes and ignore that statistically, the majority of people in America are sizes 14+?

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Originally Posted by the-kuponut

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And see, there is that options thing. We only get the options they give us. In Real Life nothing prevents a guy from going to a female clothing store to try and find a dress if he wants to wear one. Or Ordering that dress online. We are literally subject to THEIR whims and there is nothing wrong with people raising legitimate concerns about not getting as much out of their subscription. I mean, if you can't find what you want IRL, you just don't buy it or can look elsewhere. But in a subscription game you are ALREADY buying it, and then they don't provide and that's not fair.

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Originally Posted by Blood-Aki

Guys aren't "neglected" it just seems most of the playerbase are female characters.

But the fact they are being put in mog station is extremely annoying. They are seriously exploiting the money grabbing here. as they know people will buy them.

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Since they cannot attract more people to pay their monthly subs and to retain them (hardest part), they had to resort to: Hire a friend bonuses, Cash Shop with goodies, Retainers.. and soon (speculations) Hiring mercenaries from your GC in patch 6.0 when you'll be able to get more Ranks..

Please look forward to it!

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Originally Posted by Eul

They just care the bent more than make it for male :/

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Then they would care more if male would 'bent' more? ;)

Hmm.... I don't like where this is going to be rather honest... SE, don't let your game become another PSO2 or Tera Online where female characters had an unfair advantage! I left those games for a reason and I don't want to find more to leave this one! :(

Also... It's really a shame... I really wanted the Minfilia costume to be unisex... What's the difference between that and the Elite Flame loincloth really? Why suddenly change how you design clothes and restrict your players? I still have that piece of armor and I love it very very much but I wouldn't mind having another alongside all female characters in the game! :(

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Originally Posted by XLauncher

lol, if you think male characters have it bad in this game, you should look at PSO2. Female characters outnumber male characters by something like 2:1, and it shows every time they release a new wave of clothes with like 80% of the release being female exclusive and the remaining 20% being unisex with a feminine slant. So from that perspective, I shrug because this is what I'm used to. I'm much saltier about the fact that the Minfillia outfit is Mogstation exclusive. This sets a new precedent. The seasonal glamour that's purchasable in the Mogstation was at least available through in game means at one point. This, on the other hand, is content produced exclusively for real money transaction. In a game with a mandatory sub, there shouldn't be any items (besides character service things like transfers or fantasias) available exclusively to players who pay for it. If this proves successful, I fear they'll only grow bolder with the development effort they invest in this branch of content.

Of course, they'll get away with it so I don't even know why I'm wasting my breath.

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Yup, and that's a very sad day for us, the paying customers. They just do what they want and don't care until we threaten to leave, like 1.0.. >.<

Come on SE, up your game and listen to us! Everything on the Cash Shop should still be available in the game, with token exchange or.. Extreme quests!! (ever considered that instead of the plain boring ones? )

Sigh..

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Originally Posted by Reinha

They should add Cid's outfit in the Mog Station. The sleeveless one. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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inb4 they add Cid's outfit and it's unisex. >_>

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Originally Posted by Archaell

They actually are making these choices. If they are too lazy to create the male version of glamours, they could at least allow our male characters to wear the female one. Simple. I want to wear Minfilia's gear on my male character! Well not really, but I want the option. :)

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I'd wear it, in a diffrent color.

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Originally Posted by Galaktica

Because we totally needed more cutesy gear to go along with the new cutesy hairstyles uuuuuugh ffs why does every female glamour have be something "cute"

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Because if it wasn't "cute" then it would be a dress, and if it wasn't a dress then it would be unisex.

By design, if you're going to have gender specific clothes they're going to slant heavily towards specific gender roles.

Edit:
People getting upset about cash-shops, and I'm just sitting here, not caring like:
http://i.imgur.com/PAthNf0.jpg

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Originally Posted by Blood-Aki

...Well i'm certainly not being hostile, Some people just do not understand how majority vs minority works...

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This whole majority vs minority argument you got going doesn't make any sense. The only solid evidence we have to go on are those circle diagrams SE has provided us with, and there's clearly not a huge difference. Heck, as someone already pointed out, based on character numbers alone, there are probably more male than female characters.

The way I see it though, regardless of gender distribution, for each gender-locked item they add, there should always be a similar option for the other gender. I find it a bit silly that this is even a thing at SE, and even more silly that there are people defending their backwards decisions.

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Originally Posted by Mug

This whole majority vs minority argument you got going doesn't make any sense. The only solid evidence we have to go on are those circle diagrams SE has provided us with, and there's clearly not a huge difference. Heck, as someone already pointed out, based on character numbers alone, there are probably more male than female characters.

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It doesn't matter how many male vs female characters there are. It matters how often glamours are used, and SE does know how often each item is glamoured. They showed the top 15 glamoured items in the 2015 census data. 7 were female only items. The rest were unisex. If SE is seeing that male items are rarely glamoured, I can see why they don't want to make much of them.

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Originally Posted by StrejdaTom

Why am I starting to feel like I am playing F2P or B2P game instead of game with monthly subscription + bonus retainer + base game/expansion.
They are trying how far they can go with the cash shop again and FF is starting to be quite an expensive game for someone who likes to collect stuff.

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Ugh. This yes. No inventory? retainers are 2$ each. im paying 60$ a month for me and my husband to both have a account and the retainers inventory since we cant mail alts. im okay with having to pay money for a fantasia, for a name change or server change but the rest of it is getting crazy. When I play other games I can get old event items from a npc. Even in XI. Yes I know they make more money this way but the cash shop is getting bigger and bigger. Whereas I would be fine with that in a f2p game that $60 a month is plenty enough and should allow us to have access to new things like clothes and glamours without having to pay even more money. If I saw things changing more maybe I would be a little less peeved about it but no. Housing is still a huge mess, every concern is met with "Restrictions! so sorry!" or "We'll look into it". IF we don't make enough noise about this soon -every- nice piece of gear, hairstyle, mount, minion will be in the cash shop. Its ridiculous.

Hell, even in Tera thats f2p with a clothing cash shop people can get the cash shop items as prizes for special events or buy off the MB for game money from players willing to spend the money on it at the cash shop. If I have to pay not to have pink bunny tights when they should have been dyeable from the beginning or that "looking into bending the bunny ears for you" Is also now something to buy... Ugh. No wonder all my friends are quitting this game for other games.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Isn't Ice Hearts gear a mixture of Battlemage and Acolyte gear?

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Ya, but the question is are we gettin it!? AND ITS THE HAIR...ITS THAT GLORIOUS CLASSIC LENGTH HAIRRRRR who cares about the outfit lol.

Also, they said they are releasing "NPCS" sets, as in multiple...we have no idea how many guy/girl ones. I feel for you guys though...they should release equivalent male to female sets at the same time, hoping that is the case and they just chose to share Minfilia because of limited time.

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Originally Posted by Ariane

It doesn't matter how many male vs female characters there are. It matters how often glamours are used, and SE does know how often each item is glamoured. They showed the top 15 glamoured items in the 2015 census data. 7 were female only items. The rest were unisex. If SE is seeing that male items are rarely glamoured, I can see why they don't want to make much of them.

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That's a fair point and and interesting perspective. Several of those female-only items do have direct male-only equivalents, however, and since they don't show exact figures the difference between 1st place and 20th (or 100th) place could be a very small number with the flashy newer glamours taking the higher positions in the list.

When numbers aren't provided in a list like that even a small amount of diversity in glamour choices could spread the options quite far down in the ranking so all the data could show is that people who play male characters have a tendency to try to look unique whereas people who play female characters like to collect the 'classic' combinations to make popular outfits (for example). I don't know whether that's true, but I'd appreciate having the same number of items available so that it could be analysed further. One of my dearest (male) friends is a big fan of the hempen camise combo on his (female) character for entirely lecherous reasons whereas there are relatively few items which uh, unite people with male characters in their sex appeal potential.

It could just be that (say) the bunny ears have hit a niche and would be #1 in that list if male characters could wear them too. Unfortunately we don't get to know that because of the completely arbitrary gender locks.

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Originally Posted by CosmicKirby

snippity do da snippity day

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I respectfully disagree. You can still make clothes specifically for women and not have it be "cute." Compare FFX Lulu to Rikku or FF7 Aeris. All 3 are clearly very feminine, but I feel like Rikku and Aeris are specifically designed to be cute. Lulu even without saying a word,just looks more mature. more...womanly for lack of a better word. Heck, look at Merlwyb compared to most of the women NPCs. I don't have a problem with cute things, mind you, I'm sitting here drinking out of a Hello Kitty mug. I just feel like a lot of the female glamour in this game is designed specifically to appeal to a particular subset of players.'

Then again, I suppose we all have different opinions of what's considered cute and whatnot so...meh w/e I guess.

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Originally Posted by Ariane

It doesn't matter how many male vs female characters there are. It matters how often glamours are used, and SE does know how often each item is glamoured. They showed the top 15 glamoured items in the 2015 census data. 7 were female only items. The rest were unisex. If SE is seeing that male items are rarely glamoured, I can see why they don't want to make much of them.

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This still doesn't tell us much, though. Male items might be rarely glamoured because their design don't appeal to the playerbase. Of course a Lightning outfit will win over a Snow outfit, for instance. Females tend to (in my opinion) get the better looking gear. There are a few exceptions though, like the thavnairian gear where I think they got it just right. Interestingly, the more "masculine" gear/gear based on male FF characters with the most interesting designs, end up being unisex. There are numerous examples of this.

Get the operation. Costs only a few Dollars. Way less than in real life, and you'll look natural, too :p

I don't know about your servers but the female glamour items are usually 10x more expensive then the male equivalent. To me it seemed there are a lot more people with female characters that are way more interested in glamors. Even in my FC we did maps all the time but it was almost all people with female characters in my fc that wanted to go because we wanted our thav dresses. There were a lot of people mostly male characters who don't even bother with vanity stuff at all.

SE must have some stats for the mogstation on what characters are getting sent items bought on there, if I had to guess I would think its more female characters that buy the stuff on there.

I think that census thing is pretty off for the NA servers. I thought lets take a sample of the male/female characters in Idylllshire in the early morning on Sargatanas I counted 37 females and 9 males. This is a a main hub zone where a lot of people gather makes me think where are the males at.