Maybe if we actually had something... I don't know... something like tools that would allow us to kick the cause of said wipes from the group, players wouldn't be leaving so fast?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheraa
The community is onversensitive. If you wipe, you don't leave, you wipe as many times as it takes to kill the boss... of course it is easier to find a new group able enough to carry you... and there are also players tired of being the carriers... and that's how the content is labeled "too hard" ._.
Seriously?
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10-26-2015, 05:10 PMArchaell
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10-26-2015, 05:15 PMNestamaNah. Their name started with H.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaze3434
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10-26-2015, 05:17 PMCanadaneIt's a real shame too. It's one of the few challenges left this game has that can't simply be outgeared in time.Quote:
Originally Posted by PotatoWafflez
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10-26-2015, 05:19 PMKaze3434was really hoping it was my friend. he was running that dungeon and had a monk doing less then him, while he was on mch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nestama
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10-26-2015, 05:21 PMCanadane
It was probably me!
I'm leveling monk and I'm pretty terrible at it. :( -
10-26-2015, 05:27 PMChiramu
When I was leveling WAR I didn't want to enter Vault :(, Aery hit me hard I was terrified of the damage to hit me in Vault ><.
Those 51-59 dungeons bloody hit hard, although after the poison in Sohm Al it is not too bad. Library I think is the easiest XD. -
10-26-2015, 05:32 PMNadirah
I just had a jacktard tank pull the *entire* first room of Sohm Al, and then the *entire* second room. He played Spin the Dragon with Tioman.
Up the xp. Less runs in dungeons with bullshit like that would make me happy. -
10-26-2015, 05:33 PMsayafrost
I just got my alt to 57 healer (sch) I still didn't enter vault... I am scared of healing vault.... :/
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10-26-2015, 05:41 PMRiardon
The Vault 2nd and last boss and The Aery last boss are not that easy if you have low dps. The stress on the healer is too much especially if he/she is a new player with not that great gear. It's like it's not calculated properly. I know that most of us run it without problems but I've been in runs which had multiple fails at those bosses. I like those challenging dungeons but I'm pretty sure the newcomers won't like it. Also the xp after 50 is problematic and bad calculated. I remember doing all the quests and still not be able to hit the next lvl so I had to run again 2-3 times the previous dungeon for xp or do fates. The content needs to be eased for the new players. Remember that new content is coming and a new player has to do all MSQ/dungeons blabla before he joins the end game. Imagine the problem when 4.0 comes out and all the 3.X series patches. That's a bit too much for someone who will start from 0. This is why they always adjust the older content.
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10-26-2015, 05:45 PMsirDarts
Sadly this is not at all surprising.
Bad players are catching up with HW content...
I don't remember a single HW Trial or Dungeon that was not possible to clear with at most one wipe per boss. That was in the first 2 or 3 weeks after HW came out.
Nowadays? People fail Bismarck to the point it's not possible to clear within the allotted time. People wipe at least 2 times every Ravana run. And dungeons are just a pain with healers who are just standing there twiddling their thumbs, tanks who play marry-go-round with the boss, and DPS who push less than 30% of the DPS they could be. -
10-26-2015, 05:56 PMKhyan
if people die in dungeons and trials, just git gud...
Seriously, the game don't have to be nerf because of bad players... -
10-26-2015, 06:01 PMTheodric
It's a shame. I love pretty much every dungeon, raid and trial in this game and the variety makes me happy. Whenever I queue for roulettes the incentive for me is that I get to run old content - much of which is pretty nostalgic. Making them all easy just kills my incentive to queue for them - and so that's one less tank devoting himself to daily roulettes right there.
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10-26-2015, 06:40 PMJamein
Hey guys yoshi P here, we heard you were having some issues and the trash mobs were a little too hard in this game, well we have fixed that for you!
Now all you need to do to complete a dungeon is lick your screen and roll your face across the keyboard and pow you've just completed FFXIV! You're a real champ now! Go get em tiger!
Remember guys, if it's too hard don't worry about improving or basic rotations or even reading your skills tooltips, that's silly, just come whine about it and we will nerf the living hell out of it! -
10-26-2015, 06:54 PMChocoFeru
What's the problem? It's just leveling content, I don't care if it's super easy.
Remember that there's unskilled people that just wants to enjoy the content/lore/story. Being unskilled isn't a bad thing; they just play different.
For hardcores we have already Savage, Extremes etc. -
10-26-2015, 07:09 PMJameinBecause making the game stupidly easy all the way to max level with absolutely no difficulty curve doesn't teach anyone anything and they waltz into max level dungeons with absolutely no idea how to play.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocoFeru
90% of the game is super easy/easy content.Quote:
Remember that there's unskilled people that just wants to enjoy the content/lore/story. Being unskilled isn't a bad thing; they just play different.
For hardcores we have already Savage, Extremes etc.
Super Easy = Dungeons
Easy = Alexander Normal/Trials
Mid = Extremes and A1S/A2S
Hard = A3/A4
As for people being skilled, you don't need to be skilled to complete most of the content in this game, a basic understanding of your class/rotation will get you enough to complete Alexander normal the problem is, some people don't even bother with that.
I'm all for people playing the game however they want, it is afterall a game for fun. However when you are playing an MMO, you are playing with other people, if you're dragging 7 other people down and wasting their time, I consider that attitude pretty toxic, no one asking you to go learn how to do the perfect opener or to align CD's or oGCD's. -
10-26-2015, 07:26 PMrandysquirrel
Recently lvled my DRK. One Aery run springs to mind... first wipe the healer gets prisoned, no-one breaks. Second wipe, I am the only person to get in Estinien's bubble. Third wipe healer gets prisoned, no-one breaks. disband.
Even after explaining the mechanics before the first try and after each wipe smh
SE should make the dungeons harder, not easier. It might then force people to try and learn what they're doing. Continual nerfs means people like that group will then still get the clear, and the cycle of being terrible, and not knowing it, continues -
10-26-2015, 07:40 PMArchaellOh boy, I can't tell you how many times have I died as a healer in that bloody prison...Quote:
Originally Posted by randysquirrel
SE should start working on something at least a little bit resembling difficulty curve. Players who aren't willing to play the game properly should be stuck till they realise that they can't hit random buttons to win.
It is even worse that experienced players from other MMOs think that the game is snooze fest and leave during leveling... been trying to bring few friends over for weeks and it is really hard, when I am being honest about the difficulty. -
10-26-2015, 07:43 PMMwynn
Nerfing? The Vault is going to be nerfed, seriously? I'm going to fall asleep in that Dungeon as a Healer even when running it with my SCH and dishing out every DoT I have plus Broil everything ...
Bosses in that Dungeon? Easy as hell, those fights do use repeated Actions ... as example the second Boss uses two Void Attacks, and then sents you back to the edge... inbetween sometimes a AoE Field but nothing more.
Dungeons are easy as hell when you get used to it, I might even say it ... make 'em harder since they're boring the way they're now... -
10-26-2015, 07:48 PMSakuraMidori
Players do need a fix{some what} and things don't really need to be made more easy ppl just need to stop rage quitting so damn much. Or go into DF with a i need to bum rush this as fast as i can. Iv had many runs that tanks will start running before i buff everyone why? or heyy i wanna stoneskin you rushh off why? that or the clowns that start cussing at ppl if everyone be chill and relax stuff gets done is it always fast? nope but you get it done with out the world ending
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10-26-2015, 07:50 PMArcyEvil
When SE only nerf content in game coz of bad players, it does nothing more but create even more bad players. I wonder sometimes if Yoshi is blind or just pretending to see nothing....
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10-26-2015, 07:59 PMAzazua_azura
I'm not a bad player, but the vault final boss does need some adjustments. This fight is a bit random on where/who he targets his ground aoe and it can make it hard/impossible to dodge the knights. Who do infact cause a bleeding debuff. Coupled with if you have lag, this fight can be near impossible because this boss spam effects like a bad blm in ff11. I have had occassions as a healer where my mp drained @ the boss @ 50%. And this is with using mp refresh skills. Its npot a hard fight, just can be a very random lag fest.
Also please stop blaming nerfs on bad players when the community is part of the problem. In ff11 people was more then willing to explain fights and each person roll during said fight. Here people go "read a guide" "watch a vid". Issue with this is guides and vids don't get updated as the mmo ages, also what "guide" should a person read there are tons of them all with conflicting stratagy. What "vid" should a person watch? There tons of them with conflicting strats.
Also, people don't give others a chance to learn, I recall df pt after df pt as a fresh pld and being insulted, my family insulted, being told to quit all because the pt was pushing me to do things i wasn't ready for. And I'm austistic so this stuff can really put a damper on me learning, or wanting to play this role. Infact i switched data center because of it. I had 1 case where a known troll on my server was in a df group, and kept tellinbg me to mass pull mobs in halatali, as a lvl 23 gla. I looked at him and go are you crazy? I was already having some enmity issues from prepull casts, and post pull casts w/o being able to build up enmity.
Then all the mob skipping it can be a bit meh when trying to really learn/level your class, plus all the loot that gets skipped. Instead of having a "get it done" try to consider the other people in the party.
there are no such thing as bad players, only inexperienced players or trolls. -
10-26-2015, 08:00 PMRadiantRay
If the vault is what this community find difficult then I must be playing the wrong game after all. I've been playing this game around the time patch 3.05 hit so I'd like to thing I'm pretty new. I hate it when people say content needs to be easier for newer players and I ask...why? Just because someone is new doesn't mean we're idiots/retarded, I mean we're level 57 you'd think even a new player would know the basics of the game by then. Vault just requires you to heal a little bit or not at all if your team dodges.
Faceroll content isn't fun at all, what's fun about beating up on a boss or monsters that hardly put up a fight anyway? When I enter a dungeon I expect to be healing, but instead in this game I spend most of my time dpsing. So in regards to the topic itself, this nerf really disappoints me. Honestly I think they should buff boss dmg by a significant amount, because you know something's wrong when I'm healing more on normal pulls (2-3 mobs at a time) than I do on a boss (put regen on tank and dps the entire way through only to come out of cleric stance to refresh regen). -
10-26-2015, 08:09 PMArchaellIt seems like it. They must be naive if they believe that content is hard because it is too difficult. In reality content is only hard when you get several players in group that suck.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcyEvil
Maybe they should play their own game a little bit more. Telling the difference between hard content and lazy team mates is something you learn before even hitting lvl 50. -
10-26-2015, 08:29 PMsirDarts
Well, on the other hand, they said something about these dungeons being harder than the lvl 60 ones.
Which is true, because lvl 60 dungeons are faceroll easy, there is absolutely nothing hard about anything in those. The Vault, the Aery, and even the Library are harder than both Fractal and Alwaysreap.
Though solving this by nerfing pre-60 dungeons is not the way to go. -
10-26-2015, 08:35 PMAzazua_azura
just fyi, difficaulty is subjective, what you find face roll easy can be head banging hard for some people. Don't blanket your opinion as fact. I don't find any content in ff14 as hard. Just stuff you need to figure out and master, some stuff just take longer doesn't make it hard. But outside forces can make stuff "harder" like lag on the Vault final boss can make it impossible. I'm on ps3 so this fight can be laggy when he explodes effects.
But really please stop projecting your opinion on others. It not really cool. -
10-26-2015, 08:49 PMcgbspender
I d rather not have it nerfed. It´s like the only bit of a challenge on the way to 60.
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10-26-2015, 09:11 PMFynlarThe ground AoE is always placed on everyone and always happens at distinct points in his attack pattern. Nothing random about it. The only real frustrating thing to me about the attack is that the AoE circle is sometimes difficult to see; it doesn't contrast well with the floor in the room, and I think a lot of people get hit by it for that reason.Quote:
I'm not a bad player, but the vault final boss does need some adjustments. This fight is a bit random on where/who he targets his ground aoe and it can make it hard/impossible to dodge the knights.
As far as dodging the knights goes, placement is everything. Allow yourself to be able to run to the south side of the room to dodge your plume, so that you have as much time as possible to squeeze between the knights. -
10-26-2015, 09:19 PMMaxDetroitQuote:
Originally Posted by Alex_Lenderson
I'm fine with that, if they do not change extreme trials and expert dungeons.
And I would be even more fine with that if the new expert dungeons would be really challenging and require some expert knowledge and are not again easy mode dungeons like the rest.
In short, low level trials and dungoens for leveling do not need to be as hard, indeed. But please keep the end game content challenging and exciting. -
10-26-2015, 09:20 PMyexieI've never had an isse with the vault... then again I'm a healer and my bf tanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashkendor
The bossfight is actually one of my favorite ones... I'll be very sad if it gets nerfed ;_;.
I love The Vault and the expert dungeons, at least there is some faster mechanics with the "possibility" of a wipe.
I wish that, if they feel the need to change something, they would just give echo after wipes in dungeons as well... at least then people that have no problem with it won't suffer... -
10-26-2015, 10:30 PMStupiduglytaru
Seriously? This day and age of everyone is a winner needs to stop. How can you improve If everything can be face rolled.
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10-26-2015, 10:42 PMKalleraI got my nin through lvl 56- 58 mainly through dungeon runs that had someone lose hope and bail. And that was in the heyday.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex_Lenderson
These tweaks are not usually meant for people that are overgeared and running it multiple times. -
10-26-2015, 10:56 PMExKage
"Difficulty adjustments to certain dungeons and trials
We will be re-adjusting various 2.x dungeons and trials, such as Garuda, for new players."
It's sorta sad to see it happen but I've run into groups with a... not-so-great healer which made Garuda an issue. I've always had to tell those friends "uhhh do your level 45 job quest(s) first". A lot of WHM will be nearly depleted of their MP by the Aerial Blast jump that reduces the playing arena through not-the-best spell usage.
Sometimes DPS had issues with killing the plumes as fast as people would like... Most groups don't even group at the same rock for Aerial Blast.
The sad thing is that Garuda story mode is the only one that I'd say sometimes has more wipes than its Hard Mode Version, or even its Extreme Mode. -
10-26-2015, 11:00 PMSeryl199
The Warrior of Light can simply zone into any instance and come out victorious a matter of moments later, because wipes aren't allowed to happen. Players are good enough to clear everything because there aren't enough battles designed to tell players that they aren't doing well. There's a serious lack of negative feedback in the game, which is absurd considering video games are designed around failure and success.
The game offers a set of challenges, and you're provided a toolkit to combat those challenges. If you use enough of the right skills at the right time, you succeed. If you don't, you fail. And yet, if a player can pass an encounter without succeeding at their role, is there any value in success when failure is such a far removed possibility? Failure isn't some evil happening. In fact, games provide an incredibly safe environment in which to fail. When you fail in life, you get into an accident, or break a piece of equipment, or build a slanted house. When you fail in a video game, you wipe it up, consider what went wrong, and try again.
Failure is actually a way to learn in video games, and it's not an opportunity that's capitalized in this game. Instead, everyone gets a participation award and moves on. When those players reach content that's out of their skill range, they can't identify their shortcomings because the game has never punished them before, so to them, the game has simply become too hard and inaccessible, rather than inspiring them to reach a higher potential. Nerfs do nothing to help these players because, if they don't improve, they will simply hit another ceiling that they will be unable to break through. -
10-26-2015, 11:00 PMStormfur
Admission time... When I was doing story mode quests for the very first time, I had no idea you needed to do class quests after you got your soul stone. Hence, I never got my paladin AF armor or sword or shield. I thought the best you could do were crafted items. So yeah, some people really don't know!
Thankfully I quickly learned the error of my ways thanks to some kind folks in Garuda.
Also I'm sure this isn't so much a nerf because of lack of player skill (although that could be a small part), it's just to help people get to HW content faster so they don't fall further behind and run into the problem of no one to run dungeons with. -
10-26-2015, 11:41 PMWildspriteHonestly there should have been/be a minimum ilvl for every dungeon from Brayflox story on. The amount of times I was in that dungeon and ended up with wipes because of undergeard tanks is just disturbing.Quote:
Originally Posted by PotatoWafflez
givin the difficulty level of the dungeon I would have set brayflox minimum ilvl to 28. it isn't that hard to get geat to get ilvl 28 and it would save a lot of headaches from an otherwise easy dungeon. -
10-26-2015, 11:47 PMArchaellThe amount of undergeared players or players choosing their gear only based on the item level is crazy. I would be even for stat requirements.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildsprite
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10-26-2015, 11:47 PMsirDartsI would agree with iLvl requirements, if iLvl was to correctly represent item strength. This is not the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildsprite
For example, green i17 gear is stronger than white i22 gear, green i145 gear is stronger than white i150 gear, etc. -
10-26-2015, 11:47 PMExKageI had to tell a lvl 39 whm who was running fates in Northern Thanalan Pre-3.0 about gear. Mentioned that she wasn't healing well and kept getting kicks. I looked at the gear and boy oh boy. Was wearing level 9 stuff, not class appropriate etc. I bought level appropriate gear and accessories along with some extra gil telling to keep gear up and what were the appropriate gear and accessories she should look for when gearing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildsprite
But honestly the bad tanks I get in brayflox are usually just bad tanks in general. Wipes usually happened because of not-good healing or bad tanking. My first experience of brayflox in Dec 2013 was with a level 50 PLD in Darklight... :/ It did not go well with bad tank and meehhhhhhhhhhhh healer. -
10-26-2015, 11:48 PMFynlarThat may have something to do with the fact that the position of you + the rocks has absolutely no bearing on Aerial Blast damage. Only thing that matters is how many rocks are left standing.Quote:
Sometimes DPS had issues with killing the plumes as fast as people would like... Most groups don't even group at the same rock for Aerial Blast.
Hiding behind the rocks does nothing. -
10-27-2015, 12:21 AMGeesusThis. All this. So much this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaell
That is all.