Crafted accessories are an issue.

Having the market for crafters is nice but it doesn't solve the issue of Fending accessories being pretty much useless.

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Originally Posted by kensatsu

So they need to fix to make the crafter more usefull and fix this problem,
Because both need to be fixed, accesories may be broken, like the need of the crafter is broken too

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All they have to do is let people meld matirea to raid and tome gear.

And I'll also add that crafting was broken since day one of 2.0 because of vertical progression. I will in no way spend Gil on crafted gear that will be outdated in 2 patches.

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Originally Posted by Tyrial

Having the market for crafters is nice but it doesn't solve the issue of Fending accessories being pretty much useless.

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^ this, and the fact that it only concerns the tanks is enough of a proof that it's not normal and should be changed.

Slaying is BiS for DRG/MNK, Casting is BiS for SMN/BLM, Healing is BiS for healers, Aiming is BiS for NIN/MCH/BRD. Fending should be BiS for tanks. But as long as the tanks DPS depends on STR and they only give VIT, it will not be the case.

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Originally Posted by Dererk

I will in no way spend Gil on crafted gear that will be outdated in 2 patches.

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To be fair, what other use does gil have? Unless you're playing the game for the casual content (which admittedly a lot of people are) you might as well dump all you've got into crafted accessories.

The only way to fix the Fending accessory problem is to remove the crafted niche completely by changing them to VIT + STR (or remove STR from all left side tank armor and make VIT the damage stat for tanks). I don't think it's necessary, but that's literally the only way to make it work. Any other way would require a massive retooling of many, many things.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

To be fair, what other use does gil have? Unless you're playing the game for the casual content (which admittedly a lot of people are) you might as well dump all you've got into crafted accessories.

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Unknown relic requirements this is why I'm stock pilling Gil. The stupid decision to have crafters involved in the Zodiac phase cost alot thanks to needing HQ on every item.

Agree with Freyyy, picking the the least popular role in the game, and adding a big gil sink to optimal gearing exclusive that role is a poor idea and should be fixed.

TBH.. I was expecting to tank alex savage. I war tanked pretty much all of first second and final coil. War was my first 60. After my first attempt of Faust the week savage came out, I quickly realized what was expected. Millions of gil in crafted accessories and failed melds. What did I do? Switched to DRG lol

I don't see the problem with having crafted accessories. It's certainly a nice option to have. That being said, it is kind of lame they are only really valuable to healers and tanks. I think at minimum crafted should be the same item level as whatever the highest level non-raiding gear that can be obtained. There's no need for them to be 60 item levels below, this is what decreases their value for other jobs.

XD, i think gils is used mostly one useless thing like bard for chocobo, skin, and mascot,
after that you mostly use on Food, potion, craft materia, gather materia and then tank/melee accesories and materia...
this just players don't like to farm gils or can't spend hours to farm them, it's the reason why players don't like to farm anything btw.
But it still part of mmorpg, we have to get new stuff every 6 month, the 180 2stars craft accesories will have an use for 6 month, after that 210 craft accesories will certainly be added.
but the 150 one was yeah only for 3 month of use.
If we are able to add materia on token accesories, it would kill the crafted one, and if we got atm a possibility of add materia on the current 210 token, it would be certainly a lot stronger, i don't think SE will make this happen.

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Originally Posted by kensatsu

NO, it would make crafted accesories useless, you all just want to get NO gils an farm involved, that's all,
With the current state of 2 stars item, them don't sell well because 2 stars craft gear is not needed now to make any item on the game (and also because there crafting/gathering token to buy the gears).
With the adventurer gears, we should get even more fonctionnal item than just accesories for tank, atm only fonctionnal items for end game is 150 craft and gathering gears, 150 adventurer accesories (only for tank), food and potions, crafter don't want to be useless just because everyone want easy farm for all end game items. crafter need an use in the end game.

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SE's stated design is that the best gear comes from raiding. Right now that's not true for tanks and accessories. If you have access to pentamelds, no one in their right mind wants the i180+ VIT accessories.

The fact that this is one of the very few useful items to come out of crafting is a bigger problem. GSM shouldn't be one of the few crafts to make anything useful. They need to fix the problem with fending accessories being junk. Then they need to find a broader fix that will make all crafts useful in some way.

My preference is to set the stat caps for all fending accessories to 75%STR/75%VIT, and then put both stats on the fending accessories. This would make the i200 fending accessories look like the current i150 pentamelds (instead of 40 VIT, you'd get 30STR/30VIT). As it's been shown, you currently don't have much use for all that extra VIT anyway. Design future content with that amount of HP in mind.

The problem is that SE don't seem to be able to make up their minds whether VIT is a primary or secondary stat.

It's present on every single left side piece for all classes, you get it "free" as you gear up. Tanks scale off STR, whereas VIT is simply a general indicator of overall i-level. The reason Pentamelds are so good is purely due to the weird itemisation on Right Side gear.

Technically, Fending accessories shouldnt exist. All left side gear has Str, Dex, Mind or Int as a primary stat, with "free" vitality. Vitality should either be free on all accessories (so a bracer looks similar to a belt in stats, just without the defense) or the game should be balanced around tanks using 100% Slaying, with Fending just not existing.

I agree with everyone chiming in about fixing Fending Accessories. There needs to be some change.

I wish Yoshi P and the Dev Team would be brave enough to alter the core paradigm (ideas people mention like Tank damage or various CDs scaling off of VIT instead of STR, or adding STR to Fending Accessories, or maybe making new Secondary Stats that would actually be worth it (more potent / useful)).

* Side question: For a progression party (AS2 and beyond), would you recommend just using Esoterics to buy Slaying (STR) Accessories for the tank (if AS1 drops are too slow / RNG fail)? Or actually get a few pieces of Fending Esoterics Accesories for now?

Thanks.

Unless you have full penta-melded hq ilvl150, you're going to need the fending ring and 1-2 more fending acc to meet the HP needed for A3S and A4S.

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Originally Posted by Violette

Unless you have full penta-melded hq ilvl150, you're going to need the fending ring and 1-2 more fending acc to meet the HP needed for A3S and A4S.

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Thanks Violette. I'll pick up the Fending Ring at least (since you can't hold 2 Alex Rings anyways) and consider a couple more pieces then.

Hi All,

I posted a question about Tank Accessories on the Producer Letter "Ask a Question" thread. Please hit "Like" to hopefully get this answered by the Dev Team for the Producer Letter Live in a few weeks.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3362154

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Originally Posted by Kiara

Hi All,

I posted a question about Tank Accessories on the Producer Letter "Ask a Question" thread. Please hit "Like" to hopefully get this answered by the Dev Team for the Producer Letter Live in a few weeks.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3362154

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I +1'd your post, though I'd like to point out that there was a similar question here:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3361626

so I'd say upvote both of them. ( ' - ' )b

I personally love my melds. I busted my ass for them and can easily hit 3str2vit and 4str1vit thresholds that a lot of tanks go for while having a lot more hp and doing the same dps. Its pretty easy to make money and/or save money in this game, it only took 2 months for me to get a full set, and while that sounds like a long time, i also went into the expac stone-fuck-cold-broke (under 100k gil). Apply the same discipline to gil as you do to tanking and the melds pay for themselves.

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Originally Posted by Syzygian

I personally love my melds. I busted my ass for them and can easily hit 3str2vit and 4str1vit thresholds that a lot of tanks go for while having a lot more hp and doing the same dps. Its pretty easy to make money and/or save money in this game, it only took 2 months for me to get a full set, and while that sounds like a long time, i also went into the expac stone-fuck-cold-broke (under 100k gil). Apply the same discipline to gil as you do to tanking and the melds pay for themselves.

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It doesn't change the problem about fending accessories being useless

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Originally Posted by Freyyy

It doesn't change the problem about fending accessories being useless

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I thought this thread was all about crafted accessories being a problem, not fending? :o I clearly misread.

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Originally Posted by Syzygian

I thought this thread was all about crafted accessories being a problem, not fending? :o I clearly misread.

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It is...as in Crafted accessories shouldn't be needed as the tank accessories should provide us with the primary stats we need...just like every other type of accessory for their respective role.

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Originally Posted by Tyrial

It is...as in Crafted accessories shouldn't be needed as the tank accessories should provide us with the primary stats we need...just like every other type of accessory for their respective role.

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I mean... ...You could argue that they already do give you the stats you need. Nowhere is it written that STR gearing is the way the game is designed to be played, the meta just chooses to play that way to clear content faster. If they removed the ability to equip right-side gear not specific to your class, people would still clear content, they'd just clear it when the devs expected them to. =/ Yes you "need" STR accessories to clear content in the first couple of weeks, but if you couldn't equip that gear and had to equip VIT accessories instead, I'm curious as to how we'd adapt to make the best of that situation. We'd still clear the content and putting on VIT accessories by itself doesn't make a tank any less skilled, it'd just take a couple more weeks' worth of esos or whatever the current tomestone is, which is what, iirc, the devs intended. We're kind of a victim of our own DPS fetish honestly, or rather, fending accessories are, I guess.

STR is the stat we need to play how we -want- to play, how we've chosen to play, not necessarily what we need to play period. The state of VIT accessories is a product of our choices in how we choose to progress in content. Its fallacious to imply that they are objectively a waste of code.

I guess the point is, its a logical fallacy to assert that what accessories we equip as tanks has any bearing on our skill at the jobs themselves or our ability to clear the content (however quickly or slowly), its merely us as players taking the path of least resistance. We choose to set the bar and the standard at that level, whereas if STR accessories could not be worn, the same groups would have probably cleared the content first, second, third, and so on, in order, just at later dates.

I dunno. Interesting to think about. I feel like if they did remove tanks' ability to equip slaying gear a ton of people would just stop playing. I wonder if I'm the only one that would find that silly...

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Originally Posted by Syzygian

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It has nothing to do with being how we want to play. A large portion of our skills revolve around STR. All tank heals are based off attack power which comes from STR. All of our WS are modified by STR, which in addition to increasing our damage, increases our enmity generation.

The only skill I can think of out of all 3 tanks that is directly influenced by VIT is Thrill as it's a percentage increase of HP.

So yes, we enjoy playing in the STR meta, but the facts point to our primary stat being STR. If they intended Fending accessories to be our primary choice then they would have VIT augment our heals and WSs.

Thrillhouse of Battle and Divine Veil are directly tied to VIT. Mercy Stroke and Sole Survivor too, technically.

Don't nerf crafted, buff Fending. Give it real (and strong) mitigation or some kind of group damage bonus or SOMETHING.

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Originally Posted by Tyrial

It has nothing to do with being how we want to play. A large portion of our skills revolve around STR. All tank heals are based off attack power which comes from STR. All of our WS are modified by STR, which in addition to increasing our damage, increases our enmity generation.

The only skill I can think of out of all 3 tanks that is directly influenced by VIT is Thrill as it's a percentage increase of HP.

So yes, we enjoy playing in the STR meta, but the facts point to our primary stat being STR. If they intended Fending accessories to be our primary choice then they would have VIT augment our heals and WSs.

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Hmm. This still doesn't really say anything. You're essentially just reiterating that we wear STR gear b/c its more efficient, not necessarily because its what is intended from a design PoV; these two concepts are not the same. It has everything to do with how we want to play, otherwise you'd never see people clearing on VIT gear (this does happen albeit like a month later). Your statements actually indirectly state that tanks are not tanks but DPS as you imply that a tanks primary stat would be not a stat that modifies mitigation but one that modifies their DPS, and 99% of the meta would agree, which I find so bizarre even though I fully go along with the trend because I want to clear content quickly in my relatively limited raid-time. I'm not criticizing you, just pointing out a flaw in the game really. It would make so much more sense to scale DPS checks and enmity generation to tanks wearing tank gear while having STR be a secondary stat (not literally like det or crit but secondary to VIT or whatever mitigation stat). Enmity modifiers should be scaled with a tank DPS ceiling relative to DPS DPS ceiling, and enrages should be designed accordingly, if they wanted to make VIT accessories viable. But for some reason we have this awkward choice to make that no other job has, and there's this awkward loophole in the design wherein developers have allowed us to get away with gearing our tanks like DPS and retaining all of the necessary mitigation to clear content, which could be seen as cheesing said content by bringing far more DPS to it than the basic outline of the jobs and their gear suggests is intended.

It really does feel like cheesing it, does anyone else feel this way? I'm wearing gear I can't need on, and scoffing every time I see my own gear, because of the massive gap between the two in terms of facilitating my progression in content. It literally makes Savage raids like midcore raids. Look at it this way: if you think Savage is Savage in DPS gear, imagine trying to clear it in tank gear. Does anyone else wonder if this is what they intended? It can't be cause like, then why can't I need on STR gear? If the fundamental mechanics of what jobs use what gear in the game dictates x but my subjective experience behind the scences observing what is efficient dictates y, as far as what gear I SHOULD wear if I want to beat xyz boss with my group, then why is this not acknowledged at some point? Its as if they're saying to us "Tanks, you're supposed to use tank gear... but uhh... off the record... you need to use DPS gear..."

Again, there's also this bizarre discrepancy in which the gear a tank chooses to wear, based on their interpretation of what their job is designed to do which as I've said, can be argued to be subjective, affects progression, while being independent of player skill. As much as we like to tease VIT tanks, as I've also said, its a logical fallacy to assume that because a tank has clicked different gear onto his/her character (and not like, gatherer gear, gear that is within reason to be wearing- you're a tank) that they are somehow less skilled at playing the job. Playing your job is muscle memory, control, hand eye coordination, and reactionary play using your tools. Its the same in vit gear as it is in str. So what we have is a school of tanks that can be every bit as skilled as the other, that cannot clear content as fast (or maybe they aren't as interested in doing so, but still would like to eventually) because they are wearing the gear of their job and not the gear of another job. And nowhere is it stated that this is intended and tanks are directly mislead to equipping inefficient gear! "This is fending, you wear this, you are tank" "Uh bro don't listen to THE GAME it doesn't know what its talking about. Wear this. But uh.... you can't roll need on it. You can't roll need on any accessory that is useful to you." Wat.

Still, I wonder what the devs are thinking. Has Yoshi P or anyone on the dev team ever been asked point blank why, yeah, every job in the game can equip any accessories but that tanks are literally the only ones that not only benefit from equipping another job's gear but suffer in progression from equipping their own? I'd really love to know his response if this has been asked, and if it hasn't, wow, how the hell is that possible.

At the end of the day, I'm really just trying to imagine exactly how the dev team intends us to play this game, and our jobs. Cause it seems to be the big mystery.

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Originally Posted by Brannigan

Thrillhouse of Battle and Divine Veil are directly tied to VIT. Mercy Stroke and Sole Survivor too, technically.

Don't nerf crafted, buff Fending. Give it real (and strong) mitigation or some kind of group damage bonus or SOMETHING.

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I forgot about Divine Veil. Mercy stroke doesn't count as the chances of you actually hitting it outside of solo play is slim to none. On the off chance that you do land it, having more STR increases the chances that your MS is the killing blow.

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Originally Posted by Syzygian

Hmm. This still doesn't really say anything. You're essentially just reiterating that we wear STR gear b/c its more efficient, not necessarily because its what is intended from a design PoV; these two concepts are not the same. It has everything to do with how we want to play, otherwise you'd never see people clearing on VIT gear (this does happen albeit like a month later). Your statements actually indirectly state that tanks are not tanks but DPS as you imply that a tanks primary stat would be not a stat that modifies mitigation but one that modifies their DPS, and 99% of the meta would agree, which I find so bizarre even though I fully go along with the trend because I want to clear content quickly in my relatively limited raid-time. I'm not criticizing you, just pointing out a flaw in the game really. It would make so much more sense to scale DPS checks and enmity generation to tanks wearing tank gear while having STR be a secondary stat (not literally like det or crit but secondary to VIT or whatever mitigation stat). Enmity modifiers should be scaled with a tank DPS ceiling relative to DPS DPS ceiling, and enrages should be designed accordingly, if they wanted to make VIT accessories viable. But for some reason we have this awkward choice to make that no other job has, and there's this awkward loophole in the design wherein developers have allowed us to get away with gearing our tanks like DPS and retaining all of the necessary mitigation to clear content, which could be seen as cheesing said content by bringing far more DPS to it than the basic outline of the jobs and their gear suggests is intended.

It really does feel like cheesing it, does anyone else feel this way? I'm wearing gear I can't need on, and scoffing every time I see my own gear, because of the massive gap between the two in terms of facilitating my progression in content. It literally makes Savage raids like midcore raids. Look at it this way: if you think Savage is Savage in DPS gear, imagine trying to clear it in tank gear. Does anyone else wonder if this is what they intended? It can't be cause like, then why can't I need on STR gear? If the fundamental mechanics of what jobs use what gear in the game dictates x but my subjective experience behind the scences observing what is efficient dictates y, as far as what gear I SHOULD wear if I want to beat xyz boss with my group, then why is this not acknowledged at some point? Its as if they're saying to us "Tanks, you're supposed to use tank gear... but uhh... off the record... you need to use DPS gear..."

Again, there's also this bizarre discrepancy in which the gear a tank chooses to wear, based on their interpretation of what their job is designed to do which as I've said, can be argued to be subjective, affects progression, while being independent of player skill. As much as we like to tease VIT tanks, as I've also said, its a logical fallacy to assume that because a tank has clicked different gear onto his/her character (and not like, gatherer gear, gear that is within reason to be wearing- you're a tank) that they are somehow less skilled at playing the job. Playing your job is muscle memory, control, hand eye coordination, and reactionary play using your tools. Its the same in vit gear as it is in str. So what we have is a school of tanks that can be every bit as skilled as the other, that cannot clear content as fast (or maybe they aren't as interested in doing so, but still would like to eventually) because they are wearing the gear of their job and not the gear of another job. And nowhere is it stated that this is intended and tanks are directly mislead to equipping inefficient gear! "This is fending, you wear this, you are tank" "Uh bro don't listen to THE GAME it doesn't know what its talking about. Wear this. But uh.... you can't roll need on it. You can't roll need on any accessory that is useful to you." Wat.

Still, I wonder what the devs are thinking. Has Yoshi P or anyone on the dev team ever been asked point blank why, yeah, every job in the game can equip any accessories but that tanks are literally the only ones that not only benefit from equipping another job's gear but suffer in progression from equipping their own? I'd really love to know his response if this has been asked, and if it hasn't, wow, how the hell is that possible.

At the end of the day, I'm really just trying to imagine exactly how the dev team intends us to play this game, and our jobs. Cause it seems to be the big mystery.

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Right, I understand what you're saying completely and don't disagree. But my point is that we're getting mixed signals from what we're given.

We can only roll need on VIT stuff, but almost everything we do is greatly impacted by STR. That's without looking at the increased damage it allows us to deal. We have no true mitigation stat which is another huge issue. People might say Parry, but Parry is a joke on just about everything outside of dungeon trash pulls.

So if the Devs intended us to have VIT as our primary stat why doesn't it do anything for us besides give us a bloated HP pool? It offers no mitigation, doesn't help increase the effectiveness of the majority of our skills and our enmity generation/damage potential isn't modified by it.

Every other role in the game gets direct benefit from their primary stat and doesn't have to look elsewhere to get the stats that they actually need to be efficient.

Again, I'm not looking at this from an "I'm a WAR and I like my big numbers" point of view. I just find it aggravating that we're the only role that has to get special things to perform efficiently.

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Originally Posted by Tyrial

Sole Survivor is actually made less effective by stacking VIT as the healer needs to heal you for the total of your HP in the duration of the triggered buff so lower HP is actually better there.

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You're talking about Living Dead here. Sole Survivor is the debuff that you put on an enemy that restores 20% of your HP and MP if the target dies within the duration of the debuff.

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Originally Posted by Freyyy

You're talking about Living Dead here. Sole Survivor is the debuff that you put on an enemy that restores 20% of your HP and MP if the target dies within the duration of the debuff.

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Whoops, that's what I get for posting after an extended shift at work with no sleep. I'll edit my post.

soon we will not need any crafter anymore, it's already almost the case XD,
so yeah nerf craft accesories... buff the fending one.
we just have to craft useless glamour anyway

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Originally Posted by kensatsu

soon we will not need any crafter anymore, it's already almost the case XD,
so yeah nerf craft accesories... buff the fending one.
we just have to craft useless glamour anyway

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It would be sad to watch what little itemization we have go away. However I can live with that if it means I don't have to play the RNG roulette game with hybrid stuff. It would also be nice to see crafted armor become viable alternatives to raid gear with mats coming from raids, and not just catch up gear, but that's for another thread.

btw i don't see the point to offer 180Ilevel Craft armor when we got 190 by normal raid before. but yeah it's a other tread...

Pretty sure that stuff only exists right now for glamour and possibly tier V materia.