Forbidden Materia

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Originally Posted by Sephr

Your romanticized version is lovely, but the reality is VERY few people (as in, a fraction of even the elite) are going to bother even trying to invest so much time and effort to get to the final materia because it relies so heavily on RNG and the chances of succeeding are ridiculous.

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Good.
12345

Dungeon drops need to be worth getting as well. It's nice to have alternatives :D

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Originally Posted by Zomb

I think this is the beauty of the system. Everyone can get SOME materia, but only the truly committed will have the best of the best gear. This is the way it should be, everyone will be able to get good enough gear, but the people that really work at it get the greatest rewards. I myself will be one of the people with "some" materia, and I won't have any complaints when I see the guy with multiple in each slot.

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Don't sugar-coat the term for no-lifers.

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Originally Posted by EmeraldHill

Don't sugar-coat the term for no-lifers.

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What's wrong?

Only have one materea on your equipment? Oh hohoho~
Hahahahaha.
HEHEHEHEHE
[SIZE="5"]HUE HA HE HOHOHO[/SIZE]
[SIZE="6"]HA[/SIZE] HE [SIZE="5"]HI [/SIZE]HO [SIZE="7"]HU[/SIZE]

Be it skill or time required, you still won't be one of the cool guys.

So it comes down to either "this is too hard QQ" (you're not skilled enough) or "this takes too long QQ" (you're not dedicated enough). Either way you don't have what it takes and are simply unable to deal with the fact.

not sure if it was mentioned but SE balanced the game around only 1 or 2 materia for the sole purpose of having a couple uber geared players on each server because of the super low success rate

Forbidden materia is a simple supply/demand situation. If the Tier 4 supply greatly exceeds the demands of people 1-slotting gear, then prices will probably/hopefully drop enough to enable gambling on 2 and 3-slotting it. I don't think anyone would go spend several mil on a materia to have a 7% chance of adding it. In the meantime I think most people will just multiple up on low tier materia and wait it out.

I agree that it's a bit sad that the entire materia system is just a long grind against a random number generator. But since right now DoL/DoH and spiritbond farming are pretty much 0-skill activities, this was the easiest way to place limits on it. Hopefully they improve on the system, because there's a lot of room to make it better and more enjoyable.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

What's wrong?

Only have one materea on your equipment? Oh hohoho~
Hahahahaha.
HEHEHEHEHE
[SIZE="5"]HUE HA HE HOHOHO[/SIZE]
[SIZE="6"]HA[/SIZE] HE [SIZE="5"]HI [/SIZE]HO [SIZE="7"]HU[/SIZE]

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Nothing's wrong. Just be proud of what we are instead of trying to dance around the subject.

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

Probability doesn't work the way you seem to think it does.

And even if it did, be happy. If this were Aion, if you failed to slot a materia it would also break all of the others currently socketed in that item.

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I didn't realize we were playing aion lol, did you lose all the upgrades plus the gear like ffxiv?

remember how relic ( FFXI) was looking impossible to almost everyone at start...

I side with the majority here, the risk v. reward system is balanced just about right for each tier of materia. You should NOT be able to just slap three or four Tier IV materia onto seven pieces of gear without a significant risk, regardless of crafting skill or item level. If that were the case, you would see every single player running around overpowered for the entire time they played XIV.

The reason that one materia per item is considered normal is because it puts you on par to complete equal or slightly harder things compared to your level. Two boosts even more, etc. Right now, with NO materia, you're sub-par for the current direction the devs have in mind.

The only real complaint that I have about the system is not being able to see it attached when searching in the Market Wards. This should have come alongside materia implementation. For ex: I have two pairs of cesti with double materia attached, and therefore, i'm going to sell them above standard price...but will they sell? No, unless someone realizes there's a reason they're higher...or stumbles on them.

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Originally Posted by Medura

with 7 materias we will have to try about 300k times to get ONE gear with seven materia, meaning that in about 4-5 years we will have one person with a gear with 7 materia.

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Isn't 5 each gear the max?

Anyone can tell me add more than one materia at the same gear ?? I can not add the second materia... "It said you are no hope to affixing the materia "

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saroro
Anyone can tell me add more than one materia at the same gear ?? I can not add the second materia... "It said you are no hope to affixing the materia "

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...t-second-meld.

Anyways, played around today a bit more with various materias calculating success rates.

It is evident that each meld beyond the first one gets much harder. While most people are speculating on Tier IVs atm, I find some very interesting things involving the stacked/success rate of Maxed out Tier IIIs. Assuming HQ patch coming in 1.20, or even just use a +1/2 HQ atm, there is an edge that max out Tier IIIs have over Tier IVs in the third particular attachment.

Atm the success rate of NQ Tier IV, as elaborated in the previous posts, is around 17% > 7%. However, the success rare of Tier IIIs on NQ is around 22.5% > 12%. If we take into account of using HQ base item, that number would've gotten a little higher -- say -- around 15%, which is at double the success rate of an aforementioned Tier IV meld.

This is interesting giving that maxed out Tier IVs are nearly impossible to find and at the ridiculous ongoing prices that they are at, while maxed Tier IIIs are still relatively easy to find and obtain. When comparing a 2-slot T4 with a 3-slot T3, it is evident that the T3 will have more stats available and have more versatile options.

Let me know what you guys think.

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Originally Posted by Cousinjimmy

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...t-second-meld.

Anyways, played around today a bit more with various materias calculating success rates.

It is evident that each meld beyond the first one gets much harder. While most people are speculating on Tier IVs atm, I find some very interesting things involving the stacked/success rate of Maxed out Tier IIIs. Assuming HQ patch coming in 1.20, or even just use a +1/2 HQ atm, there is an edge that max out Tier IIIs have over Tier IVs in the third particular attachment.

Atm the success rate of NQ Tier IV, as elaborated in the previous posts, is around 17% > 7%. However, the success rare of Tier IIIs on NQ is around 22.5% > 12%. If we take into account of using HQ base item, that number would've gotten a little higher -- say -- around 15%, which is at double the success rate of an aforementioned Tier IV meld.

This is interesting giving that maxed out Tier IVs are nearly impossible to find and at the ridiculous ongoing prices that they are at, while maxed Tier IIIs are still relatively easy to find and obtain. When comparing a 2-slot T4 with a 3-slot T3, it is evident that the T3 will have more stats available and have more versatile options.

Let me know what you guys think.

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It's possible that triple tier 3 is a better way to go than double tier 4, but it will also be substantially more difficult. If we go off your numbers we're looking at 17% on double Tier IV and (22.5%*12%=) an abysmal 2.7% on triple Tier III. The scarcity of the materia does matter of course but that is a heck of a lot of work on the triple.

Edit: additionally, you're right that you'd get more "versatility" but the raw stat value for all that extra effort becomes pretty bland -- using maxed Bloodthirsts for example you're looking at 150HP on a triple T3 vs. 140HP on a double T4.

PVP junkies will be all over this system when PVP is put in. Anyone remember a game called Rising Force Online :).

I tend to error on the side of opening systems to the masses so that everyone can enjoy them.

With that being said, I think they've implemented materia almost perfectly. The only downside is the lack of viewable "additional effects" for buyers of materia slotted gear. That, in and of itself, neuters the economic usefulness the system was promised to enhance. Regardless, they are implementing that later and it's a known issue so I'm not as concerned about it.

Can't wait to start making my individually inspired gear.

26% chance for second materia is too much... really.

I think it would be best to do it like.. 100% -> 70% -> 50% -> 25% -> 10%(final) this is already crazy enough to add 5 materia in my opinion. when it broke all weapon and all materia that has been added broke all together.

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Originally Posted by Alise

26% chance for second materia is too much... really.

I think it would be best to do it like.. 100% -> 70% -> 50% -> 25% -> 10%(final) this is already crazy enough to add 5 materia in my opinion. when it broke all weapon and all materia that has been added broke all together.

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i would only agree its too much if they lowered how much every tier 4 matiera gave by like 80%

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Originally Posted by Medura

Ok, iv'e gotten the forbidden materia item, and ive added 1 materia, to add my second materia, it is a 26% chance of success 1/4. When adding my third, were down to 7% success rate! Meaning that to add 3 materia we will need 50 of the gear, 50 of the catalyst and 50 of the materia. This is about 3 full days of farming, for only 3 materia added. A bit much maybe? with 7 materias we will have to try about 300k times to get ONE gear with seven materia, meaning that in about 4-5 years we will have one person with a gear with 7 materia. Oh, and did i mention that this is level 1 materia? Level 4 materia is MUCH harder to make meld.

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its ok like it is... all of you should stop bitching.... the game will be only better with some good scaled risk in it....

oooo jeez...

It is a great and smart system. Everyone can use the materia system, but if you want to be the best and have the best you have to be pretty hardcore to get it done. Both sides win, what else do we want ...

You guys should stop whining about things you are not able to achieve because you do not have the time to do it. I probably wont have enough time to get the best of the best, but I am ok with it.

It is like people whining about not being able to get the platinum trophy on a PS3 game because they cant get some of the gold ones ..... suck it up lol.

Is there a list of the caps for materia? I remember reading that you can only get +280 hp from materia but I can't find that in game anywhere.

EDIT: Found link illustrating what i'm talking about:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post341227

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Originally Posted by Royal

Is there a list of the caps for materia? I remember reading that you can only get +280 hp from materia but I can't find that in game anywhere.

EDIT: Found link illustrating what i'm talking about:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post341227

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Well considering you can't even get to +280 with one piece of equipment with 5 HP IV +28 attached, it's a fair limit.

I got a HP +60 the other night and it caps at +70.

http://www.ffxivpro.com/materia

This means that you can only put on 4 HP +70 materia before you max out on all of your gear. Is the cap on a per item basis or an overall inventory cap?

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Originally Posted by Royal

I got a HP +60 the other night and it caps at +70.

http://www.ffxivpro.com/materia

This means that you can only put on 4 HP +70 materia before you max out on all of your gear. Is the cap on a per item basis or an overall inventory cap?

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Maybe the cap is dependent on what materia you use.

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　　・最大上昇合計：　+280
Maximum increase total: +280
　　・マテリガ単体の最大値： +28
Materia IV's maximum effect: +28

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Ya, i'm confused. Is there any way to see the cap in game? Anyone know?

Is it possible to dye gear after slotting it with materia?

I hope everyone realizes, with these low probabilites, it costs several billion gil on average to produce something like an item worth 100k with 5 materia on it.

There's VERY LITTLE to gain going past the second materia addition, and the cost is extremely high. I don't believe there will ever be a character with 5 materia in all slots.

Edit: I'm not complaining or suggesting it should be different, it's certainly a good model. Just trying to let people know what they might be getting into, or what they think they're complaining about.

I'm not even close to melding a second materia but I do have a question. If it's already answered here, my apologies. If I had a top end materia G3 vs. a lower end G4, would it be wise to meld the upper G3, and if I did that would I increase my chances of a 2nd meld. In other words, I'm assuming the difficulty is tier related in combination. Thanks.

For all of those suggesting the percentage for forbidden materia craft success be raised, I wholeheartedly disagree.

If they raise the percentage then they'll lower either stat effectiveness or materia stats. I'll take my +20 STR attached to 7 different pieces of armor = +140 STR and be happy with that.

To those that want double or quadruple that they can deal with the risk in my opinion. Until they release content that requires a full party to have those kind of inflated stats I'm really not concerned and I don't think you should be either.

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Originally Posted by Rhomagus

For all of those suggesting the percentage for forbidden materia craft success be raised, I wholeheartedly disagree.

If they raise the percentage then they'll lower either stat effectiveness or materia stats. I'll take my +20 STR attached to 7 different pieces of armor = +140 STR and be happy with that.

To those that want double or quadruple that they can deal with the risk in my opinion. Until they release content that requires a full party to have those kind of inflated stats I'm really not concerned and I don't think you should be either.

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You can't attach STR to everything, really only weapon and hands I think,

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Originally Posted by Medura

Ok, iv'e gotten the forbidden materia item, and ive added 1 materia, to add my second materia, it is a 26% chance of success 1/4. When adding my third, were down to 7% success rate! Meaning that to add 3 materia we will need 50 of the gear, 50 of the catalyst and 50 of the materia. This is about 3 full days of farming, for only 3 materia added. A bit much maybe? with 7 materias we will have to try about 300k times to get ONE gear with seven materia, meaning that in about 4-5 years we will have one person with a gear with 7 materia. Oh, and did i mention that this is level 1 materia? Level 4 materia is MUCH harder to make meld.

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The success rate % of adding additional materia varies. I don't recall the percentages but you have a much higher chance of slotting armor/weapons with two to three materia if they are tier I. The success rate is dependent on what tier materia you are slotting. It will be easier to slot 5 Tier I materia to one piece then it would be to slot 5 tier IV materia.

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Originally Posted by Rhomagus

I'll take my +20 STR attached to 7 different pieces of armor = +140 STR and be happy with that.

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But that's completely and utterly wrong. STR materia can only be put on your weapon and gloves. So your single materia limit is STR+40, not +140.

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Originally Posted by Raikki

I agree that it's a bit sad that the entire materia system is just a long grind against a random number generator. But since right now DoL/DoH and spiritbond farming are pretty much 0-skill activities, this was the easiest way to place limits on it. Hopefully they improve on the system, because there's a lot of room to make it better and more enjoyable.

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Well said Raikki.

Overall, I like many aspects about the Materia System, but I'm a bit disappointed that the rare "best of the best" gear is left up to a Random Number Generator (i.e., "did you roll successfully against 20% chance of success?" and continuing on till you get to the Final Slot "did you roll successfully against a 2% chance?" etc.).

In an idea situation, I'd love to see a Materia System where each slot you gained to attach was the result of your Hard Work and Effort, and in a meaningful way. For example:

• Materia Slot 1 - Free
• Materia Slot 2 - Complete a semi-hard Quest / Challenge to gain access to slot a 2nd Materia.
• Materia Slot 3 - Complete a Quest Chain (of maybe 2 - 4 interesting, challenging adventures / challenges) to gain access to 3rd Materia Slot.
• Materia Slot 4 - Complete an even harder challenging series of Quest / Adventures that takes you across Eorzea that may take players weeks to ovecome with strategy, planning, etc., to gain the 4th Materia Slot.
• Materia Slot 5 - Defeat a super hard Dungeon and beat an Uber Boss (that's orders of magnitude harder than Hyper Ifrit) to gain access to the final Slot.

Ultimately it'd be nice to see players striving to earn their additional Materia Slots while being entertained and engaged (like with interesting, unique Quests / Content / Adventures) with Cinematics, rather than just blind grinding out Materia, go back to town and just sit and pray that the Random Number Generator allowed you to attach more Materia to your Weapon / Armor / Item.

It's certainly cheaper / more cost-effective to do it this current way (and it keeps the player base busy), but it's not as rewarding and satisfying as, say, visiting the Temple of Shiva, defeating her acolytes and beating Shiva herself to gain a blessing to get Materia Slot #2.

Here's to hoping for future improvements. :)

This is all arbitrary by the way.

SE could have allowed up to 200 materia per slot, and kept the odds of obtaining them at .01%, .001%, .0001% etc.

This wouldn't mean that you HAVE to spend trillions of gil and countless hours farming to obtain them. It's just an option for SOME people who wan't to take it that far.

Really, there's no need to go beyond 1 materia, as the game is balanced for such. So, unless you are trying to get an edge or improve your character, there's no need to even bother with forbidden materia. Notice how either choice is completely optional and not necessary in the slightest.

The whole point of the materia system is to DESTROY GEAR and give crafters a market to sell their goods. The added benefit is giving people a way to spend more time in the game.

I think in the long term, this will work out to be fine. The really motivated materia junkies will gather 1000 catas, 1000 materia for around 150 attempts at making the most ultimate 'Bas-relief Coblat Saw' ever crated. It will be worth 100-200mil gil and would be 'legendary'. IMO thats pretty sweet.

For everyone else, be happy you put two attack+ materia on your Crab Bow and go fight stuff.

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Originally Posted by Picoman

I think in the long term, this will work out to be fine. The really motivated materia junkies will gather 1000 catas, 1000 materia for around 150 attempts at making the most ultimate 'Bas-relief Coblat Saw' ever crated. It will be worth 100-200mil gil and would be 'legendary'. IMO thats pretty sweet.

For everyone else, be happy you put two attack+ materia on your Crab Bow and go fight stuff.

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att+ can only go in mrd and gladiator weapons i think

but yeah, 2 materia of anything in a weapon is uber

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Originally Posted by Gramul

Good. That means heavily Materia imbued items will be extremely rare and valuable.

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Fix'd for you there.

Yeah! 0% chance to put in my materia! I AM SO LEET NOW!! Honestly, get over yourselves. Everyone will have your gear one point or another. People just want this to feel "special" imo. Try to stack another tier 4 materia on an NQ piece of gear and tell me your success rate. It is far lower than the magical 25% some of you said earlier. Try 18.~% and it drops even lower after that, far below 10%. GG white knights/fanboys

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Originally Posted by ApplePie

Yeah! 0% chance to put in my materia! I AM SO LEET NOW!! Honestly, get over yourselves. Everyone will have your gear one point or another. People just want this to feel "special" imo. Try to stack another tier 4 materia on an NQ piece of gear and tell me your success rate. It is far lower than the magical 25% some of you said earlier. Try 18.~% and it drops even lower after that, far below 10%. GG white knights/fanboys

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This is one of the issues I have with Grade 4 Materia. :p