Playing FFXIV as a Au Ra. ( playing as if I was a new player) ( A little bit annoyed)

Actually just finished these two dungeons earlier today.

From talking with buddies I knew from the get go that these endgame dungeons would be cutscene heavy and that I should not to pug for these. So with the help of my FC and friends, we assembled a five man undersized party just so that I can watch and experience the end of the 2.0 storyline the way it was intended.

I feel personally that manually organizing a party or using party finder and specifically stating you want to watch cutscenes and take it slow would be the best way to find success. It doesn't help the underlying problem though, and I think Square could at least provide a warning here so the players can take more precautionary measures on how they want to approach these dungeons.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

It's just unfortunate that they thought a cutscene focused dungeon would mesh well with the modern MMO mentality of Gotta Go Fast.

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I have to agree with this part, which is also why I blame both sides of the table here too in terms of the Main Scenario dungeon cutscenes. On one hand, I praise SE on the idea of throwing out additional story into the dungeons themselves (what I've loved about Final Fantasy in general) even though I thought some of the scenes weren't needed. (The first dungeon of the two in particular) They even went the extra distance and even throw in the whole party you're traveling with into the cutscenes as well when you enter Prae. Sadly, the modern MMO mentality of "Gotta Go Fast!" is always likely to win out on every run. (Wither it's because they don't care about story, saw them already, or just only care about the lootz and big numbers, etc) Thus often leaving newcomers behind if they ever try to enter these dungeons via Duty Finder. In this regard, SE technically did mess up, thinking that the community would have the patience for newcomers to one of these dungeons.

At the same time though, this is exactly why I blame the community itself too. All because of that impatience they put out. This quite frankly wouldn't even be a problem if the community just actually had patience and was willing to actually help newcomers get into the game further and wait for them to experience the story. But years of gaming have already told me that this is never going to happen. (One look at the constant conflict on this forum should be enough to tell anyone that IMO) Most people just want to run in and get it done in as much of a record time as possible. I can't entirely blame them though, since those dungeons are run frequently for EXP, tomes, etc, and I do that too when leveling an alt and such.

As someone else said, the result is that these two dungeons are in a "lose-lose" situation. No matter which side you lean towards, it's considered selfish by the other side. Every time. So sadly, the best advice anyone can give to someone about these 2 dungeons is to yes... use the PF. My thoughts go out to the newcomers to the game who don't know this off bat and were fine on using DF to get by everything at first, only to suddenly run into these two dungeons where patience is usually thrown out the window. Since no one ever told ME about that my first time through, I had to learn it the hard way from the first dungeon myself. (Thankfully, I was a Tank and the other Tank was new too, so the party was forced to wait... with VERY impatient tones I might add) I almost wanted to quit with how hostile that party was at the end. I absolutely refused to use DF for Prae after that, and used PF. To no surprise, it took over an hour or so to finally get a full party that was willing to deal with the fact that there were 3 newcomers trying to get through the story and wanted to watch the cutscenes. As someone who actually enjoys the story of FFXIV though (best story telling I've EVER seen in any MMO period IMO), the wait was well worth it to me. I got to experience the story of the dungeon without angry people yelling at me left and right.

So again, PF is sadly the best option you can take for these two dungeons. It may seem like everyone is an impatient prick who only cares about the lootz and EXP, but the ones willing to help newcomers are actually out there. You just got to fish them up with the PF... and hope you land several of them.

tl;dr: I hate both SE and the community for what happened in with the Main Scenario dungeons. More so the gaming community, but SE should have known better than to trust the community to be patient with newcomers.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

I'm still curious whether Yugiri's dialog changes at all when you meet her as an Au Ra...

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I seriously doubt it. She doesn't acknowledge when you're a ninja, and that everyone around you has known about ninjas since you hit level 30, and when she meets Jacke, he doesn't acknowledge that he even knows you, even though you helped him in the rogue quests.

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Originally Posted by Belhaven

Serious question. I run with a 4 player static of real life friends/family. Everyone is kinda stressed out doing content with other people as we all are really not good. Like at all. We have fun though, and have conquered every dungeon this game has thrown at us so far. We are starting the first 8 player trial now, and going to the two 8 player dungeons soon. Is it really possible to 4 man this content with the i90 gear and the i115 expansion weapons on the AH? Or are we going to have problems?

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You should be fine. These dungeons were tuned for 8 level 50's in i45-55 gear so stuff is extremely squishy; people in i90 gear should pretty well destroy them. Just make sure you have at least one tank and one healer and you'll be golden.

BTW, don't buy NQ i115 weapons off the MB. You can buy them from the vendor in Foundation.

Frankly it's not either player's fault - yes, the newcomers want to watch cutscenes and experience the story as it was meant to be told (and CM and Prae are heavy on cutscenes which do deliver very important tidbits leading up to the conclusion of 2.0). Everyone else who runs Main Story Roulette (usually the last 5-6 members of the group) doesn't want to wait an extra 30 minutes or so doing a dungeon they've spammed for a long time for tomes/daily exp.

It's selfish to not let a new player watch cutcenes and experience the story, its also selfish to hold up the majority of the group who want to just get the dungeon done so they can go do other things in their spare time. Someone always loses.

To make things worse, there's no quick fix - pull it out of roulette and the queue spikes will become absolutely huge for newcomers, as there would be absolutely 0 reason for people to run those two dungeons once they've run it once. HW whites pretty much makes old Poetics gear obsolete (except for i130 which is ok until around level 53/54, but you level so fast you're going to be replacing them nearly every level and/or youre grinding fates wit a party which doesn't even require decent gear).

Furthermore, has anyone actually tried to make a PF and check those boxes for newcomers only, slow paced, no cutscene skipping? Takes about 3 hours+ (being generous) to fill up if you don't have any friends to call upon. This is in Adamantoise, which is a med-pop server as well. So unless you have an FC whose willing to undersize it for you, new players are the ones who usually get completely and utterly shafted.

SE stuffed up real bad. Like really really badly.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

People do those daily for main story roulette. I understand you want to watch them but the are very long and lets face it most aren't going to wait. The best way if you want to watch those cutscenes is to do it with a free company group.

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People let me watch everything when i first started, and i've continue to pay it forward since. Whenever I run that place for any reason, when anyone makes the request to watch the cutscenes, i immediately give them the go-ahead before anyone can say otherwise. And if people have a problem with it, i tell them where they can shove it.

It's really just a few extra minutes, no huge deal for the rest of the group.

The people who want to watch it are also usually cool with the rest of the group taking on the bosses while they watch.

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Originally Posted by Averax

People let me watch everything when i first started, and i've continue to pay it forward since. Whenever I run that place for any reason, when anyone makes the request to watch the cutscenes, i immediately give them the go-ahead before anyone can say otherwise. And if people have a problem with it, i tell them where they can shove it.

It's really just a few extra minutes, no huge deal for the rest of the group.

The people who want to watch it are also usually cool with the rest of the group taking on the bosses while they watch.

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Yeah, I'd much rather miss some fights than have the fights potentially spoil the story in the cutscenes.

Thank you Ashkendor.

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Furthermore, has anyone actually tried to make a PF and check those boxes for newcomers only, slow paced, no cutscene skipping? Takes about 3 hours+ (being generous) to fill up if you don't have any friends to call upon. This is in Adamantoise, which is a med-pop server as well. So unless you have an FC whose willing to undersize it for you, new players are the ones who usually get completely and utterly shafted.

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Before we got our fourth for our static, I would put up this in party finder all the time. We already had our tank and healer roles filled, just needed anyone to join and we were set. Not a single time did anyone ever join. I even spent a good hour or two waiting as well. I would even pm someone standing right next to the dungeon entrance, obviously new and going in for the first time like us, and they would ignore me or not know how to reply. I think new players are too scared or just don't know enough to make these tools work for them.

And I can say this with confidence, the attitude of this thread is what makes us (as in my static) not want to play with others, as it is prevalent every time we look into doing this stuff.

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Originally Posted by NekoGenesis

So unless you have an FC whose willing to undersize it for you, new players are the ones who usually get completely and utterly shafted.

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This sums up what I am fearing for the newcomers. It's not really about me since I have experienced it ( I was merely testing the waters to see what it's like to be a newcomer being fresh into the final quest. It's about all the new people that will have to suffer the most out of the 2 groups.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

The title of this thread is a bit misleading; I was expecting to see something leading to disappointment specficially because you were Au Ra when, in fact, it had to do only with the fact that you're new. You could have been any race and run into the same issue! I'm still curious whether Yugiri's dialog changes at all when you meet her as an Au Ra...

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Didn't do the 2.1 and on story until after I'd race changed to au ra, no difference.

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Originally Posted by Averax

People let me watch everything when i first started, and i've continue to pay it forward since. Whenever I run that place for any reason, when anyone makes the request to watch the cutscenes, i immediately give them the go-ahead before anyone can say otherwise. And if people have a problem with it, i tell them where they can shove it.

It's really just a few extra minutes, no huge deal for the rest of the group.

The people who want to watch it are also usually cool with the rest of the group taking on the bosses while they watch.

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I was lucky to have a bunch of really friendly and patient people when I did Prae and CM for the first time. They took the time to let me watch cutscenes and just chatted to each other while waiting for me and the other 2 newbies to catch up to fight each boss, so I got to experience the bosses and cutscenes as they were intended to be enjoyed. I therefore extend the same courtesy to people who are new and doing CM/Prae and I will always throw in my vote to wait for them.

This is also the only instance where I abuse my tank privilege of being the person who sets the pace of the raid which, combined the fact that I don't really care if I get kicked if the majority of the group want to speed-run (and I'm perfectly ok with that), means that most of the times when newbies come into Prae/CM and politely request if the group can slow down so they can watch cutscenes and fight bosses as intended, I can and will deliberately slow the group down so they can catch up (however, if at least 4 other people including my co-tank and at least one of the healers chooses to go ahead, there isn't really much you can do about it and I'll just go along with them to beat up the bosses while the sprouts watch the cutscenes, which as Averax said, they're perfectly content with).

Is it selfish of me to try and hold the group back for new people? Yes, it most likely is, but if their alternative is to have the story chucked out the window or wait for hours for a PF to fill then I'll be selfish, just this once, to help them.

Hopefully the "cutscene" elements prior to the fight will eventually be integrated more smoothly and interestingly into the fight itself with future MSQ dungeons? Other than that, I really can only hope that roulettes centered on MSQ content are synced to near-minimum ilvl and their rewards buffed hugely. That way we all come in expecting it to take nearly its original time and are duly rewarded.

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Originally Posted by Belhaven

Thank you Ashkendor.

Before we got our fourth for our static, I would put up this in duty finder all the time. We already had our tank and healer roles filled, just needed anyone to join and we were set. Not a single time did anyone ever join. I even spent a good hour or two waiting as well. I would even pm someone standing right next to the dungeon entrance, obviously new and going in for the first time like us, and they would ignore me or not know how to reply. I think new players are too scared or just don't know enough to make these tools work for them.

And I can say this with confidence, the attitude of this thread is what makes us not want to play with others, as it is prevalent every time we look into doing this stuff.

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Probably, yeah. I know when I was new, I was scared half to death of the Duty Finder after some bad experiences. I never even thought of using PF for anything until I was doing my first relic and DF kept failing horrendously at Titan HM.

I don't have a problem with new people at all. I like seeing them. I do have a problem with people that completely freak out when a problem is addressed (facepulling dps, tanks that can't hold hate, arcanists that spam heal, etc), even when it's addressed politely.

When I was young, a long long time ago, I used to heavily be in the punk scene. We had a phrase, "Support your scene". It meant to keep what you love alive, you have to pay for the shows, buy the albums that sounded like it was recorded in a burger king bathroom, and when new people came and shown interest in the thing you love, you show them the ropes and help them integrate. Now this being the punk scene, these things were done with a but more "enthusiasm", but I always liked that philosophy and uphold it in all my interests.

That being said, I know from this experience who actually loves this game and who is just here because they have nothing better to do. I see people who go out of their way to make sure everyone loves it as much as they do. I like these people. These are the people who are going to keep this game alive. These are the people who are going to keep new blood from jumping ship when they run into the people who just want to tear it down.

This is not such an incredible game where its immune to failure. No game is. My first MMO was Earth and Beyond, and I thought it was amazing. Ya, that didn't go well. So in reply to those who are trying to force new players out of content, just remember, support your scene.

I've always found it really weird that people make such a big fuss about these two dungeons since most of the bosses are basically tank and spank fights. Personally my advice to new people is to just watch the cutscenes. You're not missing anything remotely interesting.

I use to wait the news one before the expansion as a tank, but after a while they kick me too for that xD.

People dont want to wait and you cant force them to wait, my first time they wait me only because i was a healer and the other healer was first timer too.

The only thing SE could do to help alleviate this problem, is that when a cutscene plays, that awesome circle barrier goes up around everyone. Giving those that want to watch a cutscene the chance to do just that, and not just the circle at the start of the instance.

How are these posts still a thing? Which year is it again?

As I'm sure other people have said - grab a friend, undersize and unsync them. I dualboxed both so a new referral could watch the lot. It only took longer than usual because he was watching the cutscenes. You can basically Holy-spam the entire run and never come close to death.

Nero fight tip: stay at the door, back against the corner, heal with buff'ed Regen and the AoE bubble, since it's insta-cast.

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Originally Posted by AsteriaStarfall

The only thing SE could do to help alleviate this problem, is that when a cutscene plays, that awesome circle barrier goes up around everyone. Giving those that want to watch a cutscene the chance to do just that, and not just the circle at the start of the instance.

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And you'll never get a group for those instances again.

Hi hi everyone this is my first

I can see where people are coming from, that they want to just get stuff done and over with asap to get their seals/tomes/exp/gil. As someone who beat the ARR story roughly 3 times, I can understand the "not wait" side.

The thing is, it just as rude to press on with out everyone in the party with you. This is team conent and should be treated as such. Saying "tough" "too bad" "get used to it" "watch it in the inn" is just as rude. At the start people should agree on the approach and do the agreement. Just rushing off ahead under the assumption of a speed run goes against the idea of this being a team effort.
And as someone who plans on doing the story a 4th time this is something i'm gonna have to go through.

And the OP is right, everyone has stuff they want to do. Not everyone will drop everything to help another player. More so if they are new to said free company, as no one really knows them and people help friends first. As for pf, it is very rare people will join any for this conent, you tend to wait over 1 hr at best, over 3 hrs at worst.

TLDR: Please stop assuming your side is the majority in the party, communicate at the start and do the agree'ed approach. Most importent is to have fun.

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Originally Posted by Amberyl

And you'll never get a group for those instances again.

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Pretty much this.

Man people are spoiled nowadays after the introduction of roulettes and even PF. Back in the day, when there was ONLY DF and no such thing as roulettes when people would rather speedrun WP, it would take HOURS to even get a party in CM/Prae and if it was a first time for me and I needed the clear, I would damn well skip cutscenes because you couldn't do the fights in the inn unlike watching cutscenes.

People asking for gates/promoting less people to queue for those instances are out of their minds and have obviously never been in the situation I just mentioned.

New players won't quit due to cutscene skipping. They will quit when waiting for HOURS doesn't get them any closer to progressing through content.

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Originally Posted by OPneedNerfs

New players won't quit due to cutscene skipping. They will quit when waiting for HOURS doesn't get them any closer to progressing through content.

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Would be interested to see the exit data and polls from 2.0's launch, regarding this.

Spoiler: they added roulettes, they didn't make cutscenes mandatory. Something tells me you're on point :p

The number of people in here who act like waiting for someone in a cut scene is some unbearable burden is... rather sad. For what it's worth, I'd be willing to wait for you, OP.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

The number of people in here who act like waiting for someone in a cut scene is some unbearable burden is... rather sad. For what it's worth, I'd be willing to wait for you, OP.

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The basic jist is, are you willing every day to sit there for 30minutes doing nothing?

Those dungeons are so easy that you can clear them even if half the party is watching cutscenes...
Just grab one, just one, overpowered friend, and ask for their help that you want to watch cutscenes, and play it undersized (yes you can play those undersized). Then you can enjoy this as the way you want.

We just did Castrum with a party of 6 with two FC members who just hit 50. It was fun and they got to watch the cutscenes. They are both doing Pratorium now.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

2) Ad Populum, So because most people are speed running makes it okay to dis/kick a new player? *rolls eyes*

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Just popping in for this because it bothered me.

This is not an Ad Populum argument.
Ad Populum asserts ideas have merit simply because many people believe in the idea. "Of course James Cameron's Avatar is an amazing! Look how high it grossed world-wide!"
The person you're arguing with never suggested that they want to skip cutscenes because everyone does, rather they stated that, if ONE person doesn't want to skip the cutscenes and speed run, but the rest of the group does then that individual should concede and skip the cutscenes. This would be Majority rule and a form of Democracy, not an appeal to a popular idea.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

Pretty much this.

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You know, that really makes me question how well humanity is going to play out in the years to come. Seriously folks, when you were new to this game and wanted to enjoy the story, i'm betting you were given the opportunity to see it when it was new content. Just because we are in a new expansion and to everyone else this is "old content" doesn't mean that it isn't new for someone else that has just started playing this game.


Such selfishness is unbelievable now. Don't take into account anyone else in the game, worry about yourself and those precious 30-45 seconds that them viewing the cutscene takes up. Seriously, anyone that says they don't want to wait for those watching cutscenes, i better NEVER find afking, or just wandering around iddylshire/ishgard for minutes on end doing nothing. If YOUR time is that valuable to you in an MMO, then i would strongly suggest that MMO's may not be for you if you cannot somehow let others experience the game the way they might like to enjoy it.

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Originally Posted by CosmicKirby

Just popping in for this because it bothered me.

This is not an Ad Populum argument.
Ad Populum asserts ideas have merit simply because many people believe in the idea. "Of course I should jump off of a bridge, everyone is doing it!"
The person you're arguing with never suggested that they want to skip cutscenes because everyone does, rather they stated that, if ONE person doesn't want to skip the cutscenes and speed run, but the rest of the group does then that individual should concede and skip the cutscenes. This would be Majority rule and a form of Democracy, not an appeal to a popular idea.

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That was me ^^, and the reason why I didn't bother to respond, he didn't know what Ad Populum was.

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Originally Posted by AsteriaStarfall

You know, that really makes me question how well humanity is going to play out in the years to come.

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Here's the CliffNotes version - Communism doesn't work

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Originally Posted by AsteriaStarfall

Don't take into account anyone else in the game, worry about yourself and those precious 30-45 seconds that them viewing the cutscene takes up.

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The problem with making up numbers is everyone in this thread knows how long the cutscenes are. And they aren't 30-45 seconds.

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Originally Posted by AsteriaStarfall

Seriously, anyone that says they don't want to wait for those watching cutscenes, i better NEVER find afking, or just wandering around iddylshire/ishgard for minutes on end doing nothing. If YOUR time is that valuable to you in an MMO, then i would strongly suggest that MMO's may not be for you if you cannot somehow let others experience the game the way they might like to enjoy it.

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If I'm AFKing somewhere that means I'm not playing the game. That's what "AFK" means. Away From Keyboard. If people want to watch cutscenes and promise not to kick me, then I will happily AFK the entire run.

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Originally Posted by AsteriaStarfall

30-45 seconds

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Nice try. They are way longer than that.

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Originally Posted by AsteriaStarfall

OMG

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30 seconds wat ?
45 seconds wat ?

I watched all the cut scenes but I had a good FC.

I've seen this kind of complaint in game before. Thing is, if you didn't do it with people rushing the main scenario, you would not be doing it at all. What you want doesn't seem realistic.

I just wanted to update anyone who may see this in the future. We just did the 8 player trial and the two 8 player storyline dungeons with four people and no problems. It was me (Pal), a bard, a whm, and a smn. All with the class i90 left sides, and crafted level 47-49 jewelry right side. Most of us had the silver chocobo feather weapons, while one of us bought an i115 off the market board. So if you want to do this for the storyline, its a bit easier to grab 3 like minded people then 7.

Now I am just curious how far we can get from here to 3.0 with just us 4. That should be a fun learning experience.

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Originally Posted by AsteriaStarfall

You know, that really makes me question how well humanity is going to play out in the years to come.

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If video game behavior is the spark that makes you question the future of humanity, then I daresay you need to go outside.

Please.