fix the card tournement

2x in a row got 0 platinum packs from matches with npc. I'm skipping tournament till it gets fixed...

Been getting into TT lately collecting cards and stuff, But from day 1, i've said and keep saying.

You don't fix the tournaments? I will not participate, not even against the NPCs. whats the point? The only way you're gonna win is by abusing the system.(Exploit:-))

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Originally Posted by GenericMagus

SE has never done any of this to address the problems that has plagued the system

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Hey, that's not true! It used to be difficult to win the tournament without cheating, but SE addressed the issue and made it impossible to win without cheating!

I wish they'd just reduce the amount of matches needed to complete it. I cannot find anyone willing to play 50 matches with me, even my own rl husband ducked out of that one.

I don't understand why they don't just have a single, specially crafted, tournament npc to play your matches against. Everyone would play against the same guy, same rules, everyone would have the same equal chance to win. *dependent on their deck building and what they own of course, but that is their own thing*

I don't feel triad was ever created or ment to be a game to play against other human players, except in a situation where the matchup is random. *such as duty finder* or just for fun. So if there was in fact a "que for tournament match" And that was the only way to get points, that might work. Win trading might still happen... if you somehow got matched up. But I think it would be lowered massively.

<sigh>...It makes me sad when people don't understand that when you break any feasible system, real life or no, it renders the action in question to be *meaningless*. So yes, this is cheating. Yes, Square needs to fix this. Yes, it is exploitable therefore should be expected, *which is the problem*. There's a thread talking about the recent LoVM tourney having the same issue. Anyone who thinks this is okay doesn't realize that by making the only way to win non-skill based will reduce the participation ratio, thus making the mini-game unapproachable, at which point there's no point even having it.

I've thought of many solutions to this problem, a lot of people have. Many have suggested an *actual* tournament system, but having to be locked in brackets with matches you have to plan for is too messy. Perhaps the best idea might be setting a limit on how many matches you can play with a single fellow player, so that you can still play whoever you want, whenever you want, but not be able to set up an alt/friend to run points off of. If the cheaters want to still wreck the system, it'd take a lot more work this way...

And before anyone starts crying "that's no fair!" 'cause they think they won't be able to find enough people to play against, remember *everyone* would be looking for multiple people to play. It would probably be easier to find matches in such a system, and increase player participation.

Sadly the first step to fixing it is stop rewarding people for losing. I understand SE wanted people to play each other iinstead of NPCs but that's not how it turned out.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Sadly the first step to fixing it is stop rewarding people for losing. I understand SE wanted people to play each other iinstead of NPCs but that's not how it turned out.

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They do play other people, to boost.

And they did stop rewarding people for losing, so now only boosters "win" stuff. With this so-called "fix" the thing getting people to even accept the entry in the Tournament went, and voila, they now only have a few booster groups every two weeks being all that bothers to enter.

LoV is pretty much dead already, too, thanks to similar things. And seeing as WD will be using a simikar system...

My solution is simple, don't have rewards for this stuff... period... until they can make it almost impossible to boost or cheat.

And if you remove the rewards, you also remove the sole incentive people would want to play in a tournament. People gave up on the tourneys because they'd like a shot at winning the rewards, but the win traders make it impossible to get there legitmately.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

And if you remove the rewards, you also remove the sole incentive people would want to play in a tournament. People gave up on the tourneys because they'd like a shot at winning the rewards, but the win traders make it impossible to get there legitmately.

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Exactly!

The point in my post is more in the "if you can't do it right, don't do it at all" reasoning. And again, until they can make these modes, and any upcoming modes cheating scumbag free, or nearly so, then they shouldn't have rewards, simple.. as all that'll happen is once again, the cheater crowd will be all that ever gets them.

Fix it, or don't do rewards.

Sorry but your "solution" is the horrible.

First they need to just make the two week "Tournament" just player versus npc. Can't cheat or win trade to first, just playing the game
Second have a real, GM/Dev run, Tournament every 3 to 6 months using player weekly scores as a bracket setup. People with high score go into the advance bracket, people with lower scores go into the lower brackets.

Guys, what are you talking about? people would never trade wins...

http://i.imgur.com/5ybU79J.png

This was right now on Lamia, both players also share the same in-game last name so probably related. Sadly I can't show the names or SE will ban me. But banning the cheaters who abuse the system? No, not gonna happen.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Sorry but your "solution" is the horrible.

First they need to just make the two week "Tournament" just player versus npc. Can't cheat or win trade to first, just playing the game
Second have a real, GM/Dev run, Tournament every 3 to 6 months using player weekly scores as a bracket setup. People with high score go into the advance bracket, people with lower scores go into the lower brackets.

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It isn't a solution... that's the point. It's me saying SE shouldn't add rewards to ranking modes if they can't make a system that ensures cheating is very hard to do, or punished(for future modes).

I could have saved time by just saying "stop attaching cheater bait to tournaments until you have a near cheat-proof system" now that I think about it.

As of right now, all existing tournament modes are dominated by cheaters, you might get some chump change for actually not cheating... yay, great incentive to even join while they stink the board up.

http://i.imgur.com/be4DtfA.jpg

This right here explains why the card tournament is screwed up and i don't see the point in entering it.


You wanna win? or even get close to the top 20? Not gonna happen unless you buy/trade wins. Goodjob SE. How long has this been going on for now? Time to step up your game.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Sorry but your "solution" is the horrible.

First they need to just make the two week "Tournament" just player versus npc. Can't cheat or win trade to first, just playing the game
Second have a real, GM/Dev run, Tournament every 3 to 6 months using player weekly scores as a bracket setup. People with high score go into the advance bracket, people with lower scores go into the lower brackets.

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Except a GM or a dev do not have time to waste micromanaging card games when they have more important jobs to take care of. Not to mention the reason NPCs have overpowered decks is because their AI is dumb as rocks and there's guides out there on how to exploit their AI so that you can farm them more easily. Tourneys would boil down to who can break the AI first.

I agree. GMs shouldn't micromanage a card game, how ever i wouldn't mind them checking every server and removing these obvious exploiters.

I've read a lot on how some people don't want to have the tournaments against real people....I'm confused on this. I think the grind for cards against NPCs is enough PvE for me. I rather enjoy my matches against other people in the tourneys...WHICH IS WHY THIS NEEDS TO BE FIXED.

If it's a lack in skill issue, my apologies. I don't want to separate out anyone who enjoys the mini-game. But I would make the argument to *remove* the NPC matches in tourney if/when this gets fixed. Anyone who solely goes for NPC matches even now are wasting their time, they don't pay out enough tourney points, and even IF the system wasn't so exploitable, I would rather have people be encouraged to enjoy PvP and work for higher decks, not the other way around...

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Originally Posted by BlatantPyre

I've read a lot on how some people don't want to have the tournaments against real people....I'm confused on this. I think the grind for cards against NPCs is enough PvE for me. I rather enjoy my matches against other people in the tourneys...WHICH IS WHY THIS NEEDS TO BE FIXED.

If it's a lack in skill issue, my apologies. I don't want to separate out anyone who enjoys the mini-game. But I would make the argument to *remove* the NPC matches in tourney if/when this gets fixed. Anyone who solely goes for NPC matches even now are wasting their time, they don't pay out enough tourney points, and even IF the system wasn't so exploitable, I would rather have people be encouraged to enjoy PvP and work for higher decks, not the other way around...

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Um, Verminion wait times, e~ww... It would also lock-out most of the casual players, and like almost the entirety of of players that join FCs like WORK. And, the anti-social or introverted player demographics too.

Actually, LoV would pretty much be everything wrong with removing the idea of NPCs form the tournies in the eyes of the public right now.

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Originally Posted by MPNZ

Um, Verminion wait times, e~ww... It would also lock-out most of the casual players, and like almost the entirety of of players that join FCs like WORK. And, the anti-social or introverted player demographics too.

Actually, LoV would pretty much be everything wrong with removing the idea of NPCs form the tournies in the eyes of the public right now.

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I meant Triple Triad. And specifically tourneys, not in general. You can't play NPCs in LoVM tourneys now as it is...

In the case you mean having queue times for Triple Triad tourneys, that isn't what I meant either. Besides, this is all moot unless they fix the tourney to begin with. Removing NPCs from Triple Triad *now* wouldn't work, being it's the only way for less skilled players who don't want to exploit to participate in the tourney at all, even if it is a guaranteed low rank with no card rewards...but of course that's a part of the very problem this thread is trying to address, being that such people are essentially wasting their time.

The casual players you speak of seem not to be interested in the tourneys to begin with, whether a viable system or not. So removing NPCs would not effect them, I would think. Besides, my reasoning behind it is to encourage current Triple Triad players to play against others, maybe increasing skill/technique knowledge base. And yes, an incentive to grind for better cards. Not sure how you see a problem in trying to encourage people who want to play the game to play the game...it's not like Triple Triad is required to enjoy other content in the game, it is it's own reward. If you don't want to play, then don't.

If there was a Data Center DF and you could only play the same person once if you were outside of DF it would fix the card tournament.
Finding one person to buy/trade wins from is probably easy (don't know, haven't tried it as I feel it's cheating). Finding 50, you'd have to be pretty dedicated to get 50 people to lose to you.
Or even play against.

I agree. For some reason I've heard others have problems with such an idea, but I haven't heard any good, well-thought out reasons behind their sentiment. I would not mind waiting in a duty queue for honest matches, since I'm waiting now as it is with *less* chances of finding someone. This method would actually increase our ability to participate, me thinks, as well as people participating in general. I like my idea as a compromise between all the possibilities...but honestly, FunkyBunch's idea is best imho. Now we'll hear from some whiners who'll compare it to LoVM without thinking about why LoVM tourney's are the way they are...it ain't the "queue", folks...

They should test out a DF for it. It would be an ideal way to force LoV tourney matches, get more people in LoV in general, promote PvP TT, and be the perfect setup to say screw TT, because Pop-Up Duels is the only Final Fantasy card game I want to play and it needs to be added immediately.

It would probably mean you couldn't sign up for any other duty then and have to sit around waiting for the game to find you an opponent and an instance just to play a 30 second card game.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

It would probably mean you couldn't sign up for any other duty then and have to sit around waiting for the game to find you an opponent and an instance just to play a 30 second card game.

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Actually, I imagine it would be much like the LoVM queue (if you can call it that...). You can register for another duty as of now, 'cept it gets canceled when you go into the match...have that but don't have the duty queue get canceled!

I gotta say though, I imagine anyone actively pursuing the TT tourney would put any duty plans on hold, but still, if it were a problem...you have a good point. I just think it could be easily circumvented.

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Originally Posted by Callback

They should test out a DF for it. It would be an ideal way to force LoV tourney matches, get more people in LoV in general, promote PvP TT, and be the perfect setup to say screw TT, because Pop-Up Duels is the only Final Fantasy card game I want to play and it needs to be added immediately.

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Why would we need to get rid of TT to have Pop-Up Duels?

I rather enjoy TT... but to each there own. But now that you've mentioned it, dang straight, they need Pop-Up Duels! ...just let 'em fix everything else they broke first...

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Originally Posted by BlatantPyre

Why would we need to get rid of TT to have Pop-Up Duels?

I rather enjoy TT... but to each there own. But now that you've mentioned it, dang straight, they need Pop-Up Duels! ...just let 'em fix everything else they broke first...

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I didn't say get rid of it, I just said that Pop-Up Duels need to be a thing.

How can people get their name on the top of the TT tourney board with ZERO wins? It's so strange.

I can never win any TT tourney games or be on the ranking board because there's always people with over 6500pts+ and people who won only 1 match out of 40 with 3380pt+. :confused::confused:

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Originally Posted by JeSuisR

How can people get their name on the top of the TT tourney board with ZERO wins? It's so strange.

I can never win any TT tourney games or be on the ranking board because there's always people with over 6500pts+ and people who won only 1 match out of 40 with 3380pt+. :confused::confused:

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If you lose to someone with a better deck than you, you get more points than if you lose to a weaker deck. If someone's wintrading they more they likely have a better deck than their win mule. So the losing alt\player gets more points for a loss than a player would get for losing to an NPC for example.

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Originally Posted by Saint_Angeles

If you lose to someone with a better deck than you, you get more points than if you lose to a weaker deck. If someone's wintrading they more they likely have a better deck than their win mule. So the losing alt\player gets more points for a loss than a player would get for losing to an NPC for example.

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The problem is they're getting more points for a LOSS than you get from WINS to others or NPCs.

Maybe this is Eorzea Golf where you have to lose to win.

Has anyone heard anything about whether or not they're going to address the problem at all? This thread's been goin' for a while now, and there's others besides, but I don't see a single dev post on the subject (maybe there's older ones?)...TT has been out for a long time, but each new patch comes and goes and nothing is fixed.

I was half expecting the win-trading to slow some as time went on, but it's worse now than ever. This last tourney in Jenova most of the top ten were win-traders... Until something is done, I don't think TT tourneys are ever going to actually be about TT.

If SE doesn't think this is a problem, then I'm sorry, that would mean they never meant to have TT be a worthwhile aspect of their game to begin with. Which sucks...cuz it could be really cool.

They should do a hildibrand quest to fix it. Hildi turns up to investigate reports of people purposely throwing matches and stuff, and at the end Lewena gets carted off for a piss test to see if she's been taking performance enhancing substances

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Originally Posted by FunkyBunch

The problem is they're getting more points for a LOSS than you get from WINS to others or NPCs.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Maybe this is Eorzea Golf where you have to lose to win.

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On the second to last tournament on Ultros (not The Spinner's Pull, the previous one), the winner had one win. The rest were all losses. Even to be in the top 20 with that sort of win record is absurd, but to actually win the whole tournament? It's totally laughable.

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Originally Posted by Madigari

On the second to last tournament on Ultros the winner had one win. The rest were all losses.

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Someone on reddit explained how the people gettin first cheat. You need multiple accounts. You have to start immediately after reset and start tournament. When no one is on the board. Then have your Alts play eachother. This puts them on the rankings board. Even if THEY lose they get bonus points or playing against someone on the board. (This is really stupid).

Then your main character plays all these Alts and wins for free and gets huge bonuses for not only winning against a fresh player a few times, but also because the opponent is ranked(technically).

More than likely the 1st place winner also has like 5 Alts placed in top 20 also.

It's amazing what people will do to cheat the system.

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Originally Posted by Critical-Limit

You need multiple accounts.

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Hmm. I wonder why they haven't fixed it...

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Originally Posted by Madigari

Hmm. I wonder why they haven't fixed it...

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Good point money talks. But dissatisfied customers can go a Lon way too. Easy to lose trust, tough to get it back