Post here if you're a paladin who job changed, and why

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Originally Posted by Misha_Tameshigiri

If a DRK has an unlimited MP pool

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10 Characters

It's pretty near to unlimited if you're getting hit by 8+ enemies and Blood Price is up.
Can't spend it faster than it regens at that point.

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Originally Posted by Misha_Tameshigiri

Where are your numbers?
Your only decent AOE is locked behind wrath/abandon stacks which take 20 seconds to get back.
>inb4 infuriate
Wow, that time is now an average 17 seconds per 5 stacks. Amazing DPS boost.
DRK has 2 OGCD AOEs and 2 GCD AOEs, of which 3 cost mana. If a DRK has an unlimited MP pool, as he will during large trash pulls, it's very easy to out-AOE DPS any WAR.

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In a large trash pull Warrior will have saved beserk and vengeance and infuriate
Increaseing any damage we do by 50% including vengeance.Ie getting hit by large group of monsters makes us do a 75 potency damage to monsters hitting us.From defiance perspective we still get an aoe that does 200 damage without defiance penalty.In deliverance we do even more damage.On smaller trash Dark won't generate enough mana from hits to upkeep high aoe dps.Not to mention the crit bonus we get.

Neither WAR nor DRK outputs good AOE DPS on small trash pulls.
That's how AOE DPS works.
"Crit bonus"?
You have about half that crit bonus on average because you're spending stacks as you get them.
5% crit, approximately 2.5% DPS.
Nice crits bro, want to talk about parry next?

Ok i will admit Darks numbers may be higher in 7-8 mobs will be higher.

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Originally Posted by Misha_Tameshigiri

It's pretty near to unlimited if you're getting hit by 8+ enemies and Blood Price is up.
Can't spend it faster than it regens at that point.

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So wait, are you trying to use roulette a balancing reference or does your Alex group not use the gob walker properly?

I'm not talking about Alex at all.
If you'll actually read the thread, you'll see I specifically said "Trash pulls".
Please use your well developed literacy skills.

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Originally Posted by Misha_Tameshigiri

Neither WAR nor DRK outputs good AOE DPS on small trash pulls.
That's how AOE DPS works.
"Crit bonus"?
You have about half that crit bonus on average because you're spending stacks as you get them.
5% crit, approximately 2.5% DPS.
Nice crits bro, want to talk about parry next?

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Guess you never heard of cross class.

10% crit, aka 5% DPS.
Refer to my earlier post.

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Originally Posted by Misha_Tameshigiri

I'm not talking about Alex at all.
If you'll actually read the thread, you'll see I specifically said "Trash pulls".
Please use your well developed literacy skills.

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So roulettes it is then.

Okay finally have the time to try and answer this without sounding flippant(I hope)

@Sapphidia, Nadirah, and Gooner
It sounds like you believe that only end game progression matters and that all other content means nothing for evaluating a classes abilities and potential. One thing that you have to remember, changes for you trying to push progression also affect those who don't/won't play that content.That makes our points of view and suggestions just as valid.

From the sound of things the current meta is focused a bit more on the new tank being useful and getting more people to have that leveled. In time the pendulum should swing and I'm hoping that there will be content that people prefer running PLD/DRK on, but all three are viable. And I do hope that the content will continually shift and evolve.

I will say this flat out, even if my PLD was 60 I wouldn't be focused on the progression content. I personally have a few issues with my reflexes and mental focus that would make trying to be truly top tier very challenging, I might try it later but I'm no hurry to try that content.

One of the things I love to do when I don't want to progress the story is to run all three tanks through the leveling duty finder repeatedly. Doing this I have seen strengths and flaws in all tanks. Yes certain DPS pairings have made it more difficult to hold aggro as a PLD in certain fights, but i know how to do so. I know that running the same dungeon with all three overgeared shows that my 'din isn't the most damaging of the three, but is the most forgiving of mistakes. Warrior has felt the least forgiving and Dark sits between the two, which according to the forums seems to be the general consensus, even if I'm not max leveled :shock:

So please never tell an underleveled character that their thoughts on their class are invalid, we might still have valuable insight or even possibly see where those problems might start. and remember changes at the top also affect those below

Played PLD since 1.0
Clemency cast time is terrible
cover is terrible
dps is terrible
shield swipe is terrible
pld is just terrible.

Now I play warrior.

I commend you in the way you think.There are 2 kinds of players.Good players and bad players.Bad players will always have some excuse for them sucking.Good players will work with the hand they are given and suceeed or die trying.
You are dedicated to playing Paladin and good for you stick with that.
Hell before Warrior got the big buff.Even before Heavenwsward we got treated like cancer.Titan hm lf tank.You reply they laugh and say no we need tank not warrior.Was same for coil.
A good tank is a good tank.If party dies because of tank dps then either the dps sucked or the devs failed.

Sorry, had to reply to this. I have to agree with those saying you can't fairly judge the class until you have it at 60. The game literally makes a large shift and as such, you are unable to compare your class to others capped abilities. Considering endgame is where the majority of gameplay takes place, I suggest getting the job to 60 before you set your beliefs in stone. Yes, PLD works in endgame but for a lot of the endgame content DRK and WAR are just much more tailored to maximizing their potential atm, whereas PLD is quite lackluster. DRK has lackluster components as well but current meta favors them so they become more viable/its easier to overlook its shortcoming atm.

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Originally Posted by Sapphidia

It's also fun when you ding 60, and when you start doing the basic content there. It's fun in Bismarck Ex, it's fun in Ravana Ex, it's fun in Alexander Normal.

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Yeah PLD is more than fine on trivial content but the issues can be seen on the content that matters most, 2 first floors are doable mainly because those are easy but when the real savage starts it lacks behind alot compared to 2 other tanks(DRK also needs some love because it gets carried by current meta).

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Originally Posted by Synestra

Yeah PLD is more than fine on trivial content but the issues can be seen on the content that matters most, 2 first floors are doable mainly because those are easy but when the real savage starts it lacks behind alot compared to 2 other tanks(DRK also needs some love because it gets carried by current meta).

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Why do people believe that Savage/Ex/raiding in general is the content that matters most? Shouldn't all content matter equally?

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Originally Posted by SwordswornFox

Why do people believe that Savage/Ex/raiding in general is the content that matters most? Shouldn't all content matter equally?

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End-game has always been the meter for classes to be balanced around(just like pvp is never balanced around 1vs1), if you balance classes only a lesser content in mind everything would be broken as hell when you start to do any serious content. When you balance everything end-game in mind it will automatically work in easier content aswell.

Heavensward only strengthened my love of PLD! I will admit Tempered Will is rarely used, but nice to have. I don't have any gripes and I would be disappointed with any major changes. Tweaks here and there are necessary for any class, but PLD is in a good place in my opinion. (For playstyle not dmg/def numbers)

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Originally Posted by Tadus

I have said this before, PLD does not need a damage buff, or so I feel. He is a PLD I understand he is shield n sword so he must make less damage. SE would not want to match PLD's dps to Drk or War because that would be catastrophic. Instead, rebuild PLD, and fix many of its current CDs (some post say which ones), and send him to the fun department.

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Wow this is far from a useful post. PLD does need more damage in certain areas, especially while in Sword Oath. I absolutely hate making assumptions about people before actually playing with them but you talk as if you haven't seen a day in Alexander Savage (and your gear reflects that, sorry). Did you know that Rage of Halone has both the lowest enmity multiplier and potency at 5x and 260 whereas Butchers Block is at 5.5x/280 and Power Slash is at 5.5x(6.5 in Dark Arts)/300. That makes tanking while in Sword Oath problematic at times if you run with people who can actually pull good dps. There are multitudes of other damage-related problems like Shield Swipe being a dps loss now, but I won't list them all out to you. The "fun department" you mention isn't even relevant because fun is subjective. I personally find PLD fun, but I'll be gearing up my DRK with eso's soon because it is more efficient with the way Alexander Savage is set up and the way I fear they will be setting up the future floors of Alexander (more magic based tank busters / magic based AoE / higher dps checks).

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Originally Posted by Tadus

ahh but here is the thing, you love it cause you still have stuff to see on PLD, and you haven't seen the full potential of PLD yet. Me and nyttyn already know everything from PLD, me and her and levels 60. We know what changes need and what improvements he needs. Of course you don't feel like he needs changes lol... YET

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So with all that said above, if the only improvement you think PLD needs is "fun department", I highly suggest you don't post about PLD adjustments. Fun hardly brings balance which is the underlying issue for PLD at the moment. I'm sure you're a solid PLD and all, but if all you have to base your opinions on is outdated unsynced content, 4 man content, and alexander normal mode, then your knowledge of the potential of PLD is highly limited.

DRK enmity tables
PLD and WAR enmity tables

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Originally Posted by SwordswornFox

Why do people believe that Savage/Ex/raiding in general is the content that matters most? Shouldn't all content matter equally?

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The cutting edge content is what determines how the class/job is treated across all levels. Considering WARs had issues in T4/T5 of coil but were being told they couldn't tank HM Garuda, not to mention my own experiences in WoW ("tr0lolol Nihilum wrote an article on why ret paladins are not optimal; that must mean ret sucks and should never be brought to anything"), it's a well-founded way of looking at things.

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Originally Posted by SwordswornFox

Why do people believe that Savage/Ex/raiding in general is the content that matters most? Shouldn't all content matter equally?

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Because there comes a point where I get nothing out of anything but "hardcore" content, and I shouldn't have to switch jobs to do anything more difficult than content I've done with a farking Titan or Dragoon tanking.

That's why.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

The cutting edge content is what determines how the class/job is treated across all levels. Considering WARs had issues in T4/T5 of coil but were being told they couldn't tank HM Garuda, not to mention my own experiences in WoW ("tr0lolol Nihilum wrote an article on why ret paladins are not optimal; that must mean ret sucks and should never be brought to anything"), it's a well-founded way of looking at things.

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This.

Nothing like being excluded from dungeons because your class is seen as shit.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

This.

Nothing like being excluded from dungeons because your class is seen as shit.

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And that's when I fling a middle finger to the naysayers and keep marching. In wow I played locks and shamans when they struggled and didn't care if others thought they wwere crap. I got the job done and enjoyed myself while doing so

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Originally Posted by SwordswornFox

And that's when I fling a middle finger to the naysayers and keep marching. In wow I played locks and shamans when they struggled and didn't care if others thought they were crap. I got the job done and enjoyed myself while doing so

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You may have been happy in the little corner you were forced into by class design and the community, but the rest of us just simply want to play with everyone else.

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Originally Posted by SwordswornFox

So please never tell an underleveled character that their thoughts on their class are invalid, we might still have valuable insight or even possibly see where those problems might start. and remember changes at the top also affect those below

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You've misread our points. Your opinion on the class and everything you've experienced is as valid as anyone else's, but the community has been talking pretty much exclusively about balance at the endgame. If raiding didn't exist, if Ravana Ex was the last piece of content in the game, Paladins would be viewed as fine. Noone would be whining as much as now, they'd probably just be asking for some minor quality of life improvements.


There's a BIG reason that people are talking about it so much though, and also addresses your other question - why should endgame raiding content matter. Shouldn't all content matter equally? There's two reasons why it matters most:

1 - Currently the top end raiding content is HARD. That is, you have to get 8 players together in a balanced composition and play your classes pretty much perfectly to have any hope of getting down Alex Savage bosses before you start to overgear them from gear obtained from esoterics. This is the point where you're no longer just talking about one class beign slightly better than another. You're talking about bosses literally NOT BEING POSSIBLE with a certain lineup. There's many many precedents in this expansion of players being FORCED to swap away from Paladin, their preferred/favorite class, into Warrior or Dark Knight simply so their group can actually have a hope in hell of killing a boss due to the class balance.

2 - Virtually all content outside of top end savage raiding is designed to be puggable, or done via the duty finder (eventually ravana/bismarck will be there). In this content you can't pick and choose who you group with via DF - sometimes you'll get given a Warrior tank in i210 gear, sometimes you'll get a fresh Paladin in i145. But in both these cases the content is POSSIBLE. People might grumble a bit about a class being worse than another, or that their tank isnt in very good gear, but generally will just knuckle down and do the dungeon. There's no exclusion unless people are being asses. You queue up and do the content, and as long as people don't suck hugely the content gets done regardless of class balance.

In top end raiding though, you form the composition before you go in. You either apply to raidgroups that need a specific class, or you're already part of a static and you choose classes based on who's best at what role. In these situations where min-maxing is basically necessary for success, there were two classes being hugely excluded: Paladin and Astrologian. Players of these classes were denied entry into static groups or told to change class to war/drk or sch/whm because they were OBJECTIVELY WORSE than the other options in terms of "chance of success of the group".

Obviously as content gets outdated and easier then class balance doesnt matter - you get videos of people 4 manning 8-man raids, or doing 8 warrior runs. Even when it's still fairly hard you'll get paladins completing the content simply because they've managed to get more gear and reach the required DPS values via outgearing it to make up for the class deficiency. Noone wants a class that only functions in these situations though.

Are paladins fine and capable and fun in every single encounter in the game outside of Alex Savage? Yep. Are they objectively worse than the other two tanks in terms of the raid requirements on at least 3 of the encounters inside Alex Savage? Yes. That's the issue. The solution might be paladin buffs. It might also be no change to the class but a change in the focus of what's important in the next raid tier. It might be that the next part of Alex Savage comes out and it's all balanced around physical tankbusters and DPS is important. But if they continue down the current route where tank mitigation is basically a non-issue and all that matters for success is how much DPS a tank can push out, there's going to be issues unless they fiddle the kit of the Paladin slightly.

These forums are a place for players to let the devs know their thoughts on class balance. The community is pretty agreed on the problems here (if not the solutions). We make the threads to get the voices heard, because we wholeheartedly believe that, as you put yourself, all content matters equally. Yes, it does. And currently, Paladins are only really able to compete on the old non-raiding content and are feeling excluded from the top content.

It isnt about other players whining and just having to suck it up. It's about knowing that in a lot of cases, currently choosing to play Paladin is telling your static "I'm going to make this harder for us, and we might not even kill this boss purely because I have chosen to play Paladin rather than WAR/DRK". No player wants to feel like they're intentionally dragging their team down.

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Originally Posted by AIex

Wow this is far from a useful post. PLD does need more damage in certain areas, especially while in Sword Oath. I absolutely hate making assumptions about people before actually playing with them but you talk as if you haven't seen a day in Alexander Savage (and your gear reflects that, sorry). Did you know that Rage of Halone has both the lowest enmity multiplier and potency at 5x and 260 whereas Butchers Block is at 5.5x/280 and Power Slash is at 5.5x(6.5 in Dark Arts)/300. That makes tanking while in Sword Oath problematic at times if you run with people who can actually pull good dps.

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lol "you gear reflects that" okay. 1) I am in A3s 2nd) maybe the only enmity problem there is on PLD is flash 3) I have gone is sword oath before and have never lost agro 4) when I mean fun, I mean less simple. Maybe adding a stack mechanic or something like that 5) I would not be talking if I didnt know my stuff lol. If you came just to write a few numbers on how PLD needs more agro or how I am wrong because I only do 4 man content and Normal SavagexD then who is wrong here?

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Originally Posted by nyttyn

(okay holmgang is a exception that ability sucks bollocks at anything besides surviving tankbusters).

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This is the point when I figured out you don't know what you're doing.

I was a PLD for the end of FCOB because I joined a new static. I was previously on WAR. Our new static had a WAR so I gave PLD a shot. It was sub-par as far as enjoyable playstyle.

At 3.0 I changed to DRK because I was going to switch to DRK regardless of what job I was on. I actually like how they adjusted PLD in 3.0. I'm waiting to see what content they design to make it shine.

That being said I would happily take buffs, love, QoL changes for PLD to make it a better job. I will say that I wouldn't switch back to WAR even though I really liked it before 3.0 because of the direction that WAR took in 3.0. Both DRK and PLD have more OGCs and more play diversity.

There is nothing that is "extremely" wrong with paladins.

I actually cried when I went DRK because I love PLD and I love the PLD armor.

But I went DRK because I was having threat problems as PLD. Also magic damage reduction. Maybe I'm just bad.

I still play PLD on anything that isn't savage though.

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Originally Posted by nyttyn

... Paladin has a plethora of nigh useless buttons (Cover, Tempered Will)...

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I may not be lv 60 PLD but i've partied with a number of PLDs to know that Cover is not useless... Of the 2+ years on playing WHM i've been covered twice by randoms only but both times by awesome PLDs.

Scenario: PLD not super geared for EX roulette, pulls big group, i keep heals up then spam holy, by 3rd holy i get hate from multi mobs, instead of fighting my hate and i'd get interrupted and use MP on heals, PLD covers me, and i continue my holy spam, after 8 holies, all mobs dead, we move on, nice quick and easy <3

That statement tells me you don't know how to utilize PLD very well...

As PLD who bought eso weapon and body
Now changed to WAR
PLD is fine up to extreme primal but for savage, it different story
PLD DPS is too low, healing is interruptible

After i changed to WAR with no eso gear think feel much more smooth.
DRK is not 60 yet so i cant compare

Disclaimer: I'd always maxed out both PLD & WAR. But all the while PLD has been my main until now. Currently PLD at 60 (Been doing up to Bis EX & Alexander normal) and WAR at 59.

Why I decided to main WAR now instead of PLD:

1. It's easier to stance dance on WAR. Seamless transition into deliverance + FC without losing tankiness by timing your vengeance. For PLD, super awkward to switch to Sw.oath. Overall, even with all the new offensive skills given to PLD, I find them very clunky unlike WAR which I felt was very well thought out.
2. I feel like I contribute more to the pt as a WAR. (Better debuff, better dmg, better AOE threat.)
3. AOE threat and damage on PLD is literally shit.

Was a PLD main through 2.X, cleared FCoB on it, and was full BiS geared with a Zeta. I played a bit of DRG on the side but spent most of my time on PLD.

I now split my time with WAR.

I originally picked up WAR because my old static was having some DPS issues in AS1. First time in we were already seeing a 200-300 raid DPS gain despite my WAR only having a Ravana weapon, no eso gear outside of the belt, and not enough SS to hit berserk breakpoints or enough ACC for frontal cap. At the time, I wasn't even doing poorly as PLD (solo-tank Faust 500+ dps, ~700 dps on oppressors). But, everything was so ridiculously easy on WAR that I couldn't keep playing PLD seriously. It just wasn't fair that 7 other people had to pay for my insistence on playing a weaker job. Now, I only play PLD when groups already have a WAR or when it really shouldn't matter (so stuff like Bismark / Ravana EX, Alex Normal though I'm increasingly doing those on WAR because it's just so much easier to carry groups on WAR).

I was a warrior main when I was a top progression raider in WoW during vanilla~BC. While I enjoyed swinging a huge two-hander around as an arms/fury warrior in PvP, when it came to tanking, it was one-hander + shield. So seeing the shield bearing tank of FFXIV in such poor shape saddens me.

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Originally Posted by Kaidam

1. It's easier to stance dance on WAR. Seamless transition into deliverance + FC without losing tankiness by timing your vengeance. For PLD, super awkward to switch to Sw.oath.

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Since 2.0 i have been waiting when oaths will be oGCD and not brake comboes, it would make whole job feel more fluid thus more fun. Maybe one day...

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Originally Posted by Tadus

lol "you gear reflects that" okay. 1) I am in A3s 2nd) maybe the only enmity problem there is on PLD is flash 3) I have gone is sword oath before and have never lost agro 4) when I mean fun, I mean less simple. Maybe adding a stack mechanic or something like that 5) I would not be talking if I didnt know my stuff lol. If you came just to write a few numbers on how PLD needs more agro or how I am wrong because I only do 4 man content and Normal SavagexD then who is wrong here?

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This is funny for multiple reasons.
0) "your gear reflects that" = I find it curious (to say the least) that you're progressing in savage and using 210 fending accessories on purpose?
1) "I am in A3s" = i can beat A1s A2s. Those two turns are dirt easy and have been farmable since week 1. So "I am in A3s" doesn't amount to anything
2) "maybe the only enmity problem there is on PLD is flash" = what exactly are you flashing in savage? you might be one of a select few people who even care about this skill in the meta
3) "I have gone in sword oath before and have never lost aggro" = define what you mean by "going in sword oath". if it means you started in shield and then swapped into sword, that's highly unimpressive that you use a 10x multiplier on RoH to maintain aggro
4) "Maybe adding a stack mechanic or something" = there are already classes that use stacks, not every class should be the same otherwise this would be a very boring game to play. in fact, there is a healer (sch), dps (monk), and tank (war) that use stacks and if you find that more fun, please play those instead
5) "I would not be talking if I didnt know my stuff" / "who is wrong here?" = you're only talking because you think you know your stuff. the community is here trying to think of a way to bring PLD on par for the meta. I've listed numbers that are literally indisputable. You've merely presented feelings about PLD needing to be more fun. So when you ask me "who is wrong here?", I'm heavily inclined to say it's you.

ALL THAT ASIDE.
I honestly hope that PLD gets their adjustments soon and if they become "more fun" too, I won't argue with that. I wish you the best of luck in A3s, and I hope your group clears soon so that you can see the fun and fiery bicycle that is A4s. Hopefully we can both get what we want out of PLD.

I don't know if I'd consider it a true job change as I still decided to prioritize gearing PLD in ESO over landing a raid group thanks to current meta. Thankfully PLD ESO gear is BiS compared to a lot of the savage stuff, apart from some simple as1 farming for right side stuff which you get to greed on against melee's need rolls. That being said, I'm almost war 60 with full intentions of switching over. Even by level 54 I could see the power war holds compared to PLD at 60- which is just, sad to say the least. That being said, PLD are still capable of pushing out some solid dps when played right but you're relying on your healers ability to keep you up through 100% sword oath usage. Simply put, warrior is just much better atm in all imaginable ways and imo the true utility PLD could bring to a raid is unreliable at best.

I'm a Paladin who job changed into Dark Knight because it was new and a Tank class. Nothing dramatic.

I played PLD through the entirety of 2.0 and switched to WAR in 3.0 when I saw them get a new stance. I always liked having a stance for different situations on PLD. It was what made it unique to me. When I found out that WAR could not only stance dance, but do it better than PLD I made the switch. The class is simply more fun to play and the rewards you get for playing it well are head and shoulders above what paladin gets.

I love the visual aesthetics of PLD, animations and sounds are on point, but the utility and fun factor that WAR brings to the table made the switch easy for me.

PLD going to WAR

Longtime supporter of PLD since 2.0. But I did start out as a WAR in 2.0, my first lvl50 job, since I loved the idea of a self hp regen tank. But based off ffxiv mechanics, and other problems WAR lost favor pretty fast in the community even before any WARs started to do Coil, Hardmode Primals. I basically just stopped playing my WAR and leveled my SMN, and soon after PLD became my main job. WAR did get massive buffs in 2.1, but by then I was comfortable with PLD as it still felt the most solid tank out of the two, while WAR lost it's hp regen abilities in favor of upfront mitigation moves, so I lost interest in picking warrior back up, since it was not the tank I wanted it to be when I first read about it. In the end I stayed as a PLD main from 2.0 to 3.07.

I came into HW and leveled up my PLD through the MSQ. The level experience from lvl50-60 as a PLD was fun. You get new skills you think were great like Clemacy, Divine Veil, Sheltron...without knowing how useless/unneeded they are later in endgame content. I knew PLD was going to have less dps versus the other two tanks, but also "supposely PLD would have superior defense" to justify that lost. I was cool with it till later on it became more apperant how important tank dps will be in game content, and how the odds are stack against PLD in Savage Alex. Yeah with the majority of the meaningful dmg you want to mitigate is magical dmg this does not at all justify PLDs lower dps throughout a fight. Half of PLDs def cds are useless when up against magical fight. Block becomes nothing more then a over glorified rng statistic for auto attacks, and no block is no where near as close as strong as in 2.x... Bulwark becomes a whatever skill most times, and Sheltron is just a mp regen. Not to mention all the straight out cumbersomeness PLD has really shows, when doing Alex Savage. Changing stances, Spells, Shield Bash all interrupt your combos contributing even more dps lost in "actual combat".

Why the heck is Shield Bash still on global cooldown at the cost of 150tp anyways? TP cost is too high, and really what is the point of stun locking anything anymore? Stun locking lost it's grace back in 2.1 when enemies gained stun immunity overtime. Why the heck is Shield Swipe even on my hotbar anymore, really why? Why even have Divine Veil it's nice but is it really necessary EVER, no. This skill needs to be basically replaced by another skill entirely imo. Clemacy/Stoneskin why is this even on a 3sec cast with a 2.5sec recast? And last one why give Sheltron 100% block chance on 1-hit? I personally think Sheltron will always be OP when there is physical tank buster move, but will always be a dud skill when there is no meaningful physical dmg to block...skill needs to be reworked, and balanced out.

I just see too many problems facing PLDs. I love the class, but it's basically garbage tier in my eyes if you are serious about raiding. Outside of Savage Alex PLDs are fine, but inside Savage Alex it's a totally different story. Anyone staying as a PLD is doing nothing more then hurting your own groups progression.

On the record. I willingly changed from PLD to WAR. No one in my static ever asked me to change classes.

Bump for the sake of SE acknowledging the issue at hand.