Which healer would you recommend?

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Originally Posted by Renryuu

I dunno, unless this downtime happens at level 60 with higher ilvls, I can't see it as I'm spending 100% of my time in dungeons having to heal, so much so that I'm often running out of mana while the group is still pulling more monsters and I'm having to scramble to get Ewer cards or praying that LA finishes so I can use it again before the tank dies. I mean I'm having to keep all my healing cooldowns on constant use just to keep up with the amount of monsters pulled and damage being taken by the tank and dps and it makes me wonder what am I doing wrong that I can't get time to dps.

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My guess is that it's a combination of things:

1. You are running into bad tanks who pull more than is efficient (possibly not using CDs) and DPS who soak too much avoidable damage. Since you are still leveling, this isn't entirely surprising. The first batch of 60s were mostly veteran players who already knew how the game worked; about now you are probably seeing a lot of first-time players in the 50+ range.

2. AST has received some significant improvements, but IMO the other two healers have an easier time with leveling dungeons. AST is quite capable, but without shields + fairy or an AoE stunlock nuke, your healing requirement varies depending almost entirely on your tank's skill and gear as well as how long it takes the DPS to kill things. CU+Diurnal Aspected Benefic is one of your best combinations for maintaining a tank while you DPS (also works with Noct, though you may need to stance dance more frequently to refresh the shield).

3. Tying in with point #1, you tend to have smaller DPS windows (if any) in a real speed run. WHM has an easier time with this because Holy grants several seconds of freedom to get Aero III and consecutive Holies out, and SCH can use Adlo and a Roused fairy to buy enough safety to SC+Shadowflare, DoT->Bane, Miasma II, etc, but unless Celestial Opposition is up, you don't really have a way to put the action on hold long enough to spam Gravity.

TL;DR: It may not be you at all. It sounds like you're getting caught up in speed runs that you and your party aren't really prepared to handle. AST also isn't the strongest on DPS out of the three; they CAN do good damage, but it's not always easy or practical to sustain it.

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Originally Posted by Renryuu

I dunno, I'm starting to fall into the same rut that got me to quit when I first mained as a healer, having to dps when all I wanna do is be a healer and focus on that and dodging mechanics of fights. All these expectations to dps even as a Ast just has me thinking of what is the point of being a healer when I'm having to dps all the same, may as well just go back to being a dps if that's all that people want. I dunno, I love the healing part, but the part of dpsing and having to manage the two when the group refuses to move out of aoe or let monsters wail on me while they move on to pulling the next half of the dungeon and I'm being left to fend for myself with constant interruptions to my casts... I may not be cut out to be a healer if I'm meant to also be a dps, else I get labeled as the worst healer ever and get banned from all teams because "omg don't invite that healer, he only heals". :(

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Based on your playstyle preferences, this probably isn't the game for you to be healing in. They gave healers dps kits and the ability to contribute meaningful damage. In 4 man dungeons, there isn't enough healing to do and if you don't dps to help speed up the run, you are twiddling your thumbs half the time. And in the true end game raids, healer dps ranges from mandatory to extremely helpful. Intelligent minds can debate if it should be like that or if they like it like that. But it's not really debatable that's simply how how it is in this game.

Personally, I actually think this all makes SCH the most engaging class to play in the game. And if you are going to heal, I'd recommend WHM. It should still be helping dps in dungeons, but the dps people expect to get out of it in raids is lessened.

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Originally Posted by Sidra

Based on your playstyle preferences, this probably isn't the game for you to be healing in.

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If that's the case, then perhaps it's just best if I quit the game entirely. I only get the most fun out of healing classes since I have a wide assortment of games where I'm already playing as a "dps" so being a healer in a MMO is always a breath of fresh air, but if being a healer just means being a dps who happens to heal, then maybe I'm just better off going back to non MMO games since I've lost interest in WoW ages ago. It sucks cause this game is really the only time I get to hang out with my real friends since we live quite a distance from each other, making hanging out on a regular basis rather difficult, but if I'm not able to be a healer then there isn't anything in the game left for me really. :(

Well - to be fair, it's much more accurate to say a healer is a healer who happens to add some dps. But, anyways, peace man. Hope you enjoy whatever you do decide to play.

Don't all Wow healers have free filler nukes they can use during downtime? Mist weaver monks have a full stance dedicated to it. I don't really see the problem. At the end of the day you are the healer and you have to heal or everyone dies, cleric stance is a bonus you get when everyone is their job (dps not standing in fire, tanks popping cds)

Honestly man it just sounds like to me you are trying to find a reason to quit because you don't enjoy the game. If that's the case go for it, don't force yourself if you don't like the game.

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Originally Posted by Pentt

Honestly man it just sounds like to me you are trying to find a reason to quit because you don't enjoy the game. If that's the case go for it, don't force yourself if you don't like the game.

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I do not know about currently. At the time I played Monks were not even released and the only healer that could actually afford to be offensive was Priest with it's Archangel ability where it would heal the closest damaged player by 100% of the damage dealt by Smite or Holy Fire (including Holy Fire's Dot) as well as giving a stacking buff which when the skill was used gave you 5% bonus healing per stack of the buff. While this was a new style of healing, allowing one to both attack and heal at once, it wasn't used much. The healing game revolved around constant healing as players took a lot of unavoidable damage from mulitple sources or tanks were constantly in threat of death simply due to how raid bosses were designed and so you mostly had to spam heals constantly and when there was downtime healers spent it doing nothing to regen precious mana for the next onslaught of attacks. Dunno if that changed with MoP or WoD as I became a lot less active due to eventual loss of interest.

As for looking for an excuse to quit, that's not true. If I wanted to quit, I would have done so already, I'm actually trying to get myself back into the game which is why I've gone back to healing instead of dps and Ast was that gateway as I love the theme of it as well as the concept of rng buffs and figuring out how to use them to the best of my ability in the situation given. I'm just frustrated with having to dps on top of already healing and buffing people constantly or I'm deemed bad and kicked, or spending most of a run with 10-20% of my total mana with 0 breaks to be allowed to get back to full. I just can't help but feel I'm doing something wrong when I'm told I suck and I'm doing all I can as is and then hear that on top of all this I should be dpsing as well. As I mentioned before, maybe it's something that improves when I get to 60, but right now I'm just not seeing how I'll be able to dps on top of healing and buffing with the groups I've been having where they pull all the monsters they can until the dungeon forces them to stop and the moment the obstacle is removed they go and continue to pull to the next block, regardless if the previous group of mobs were killed or not. This is on top of what I'm guessing is a new way of tanking since I've noticed while healing that tanks wear all str accessories, which back when I was first a healer in 2.0-2.2 content tanks always stuck with Vit accessories.

I'm not quiting, just frustrated and trying to understand where the problem lies so I can try to better myself so as to be a better healer and I'll tolerate dpsing if I must, but as I've mentioned a few times already, I'm having a hard time seeing when I can dps when basically spending all my time having to heal with no downtime with the groups I've been in. Heck, I'm lucky enough to get buffs out with how fast the tank's hp goes from 100% to 30% in these runs. x_x

When you get to 60 and get much better gear, it becomes so much easier. I would, at the very least, get to 60, get some better gear, do some of the expert dungeons and then see how you feel.

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Originally Posted by Renryuu

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I wouldn't get too hung up on the DPS part.

Looking at your AST's gear, it isn't terrible, but it isn't exactly at the top of the curve for your level, either. You are a little undergeared and winding up in speed runs with players who are not very accommodating. If you can't DPS, you can't DPS.

Healer DPS is what happens when you have nothing more necessary to do. Intelligent players do not expect it of healers who are clearly absorbed in keeping up with incoming damage. Personally I am only annoyed with healers who do not DPS if they are clearly being lazy by healing what they need to heal and then standing around until something else happens.

Try getting to 60, update your gear as you go, and see what your experience is like. Eventually you, too, will reach the stage where you honestly don't have much to do and "might as well" switch on CS and throw a few DoTs. Let's be honest: most healers in this game are not proactive about DPS unless they are experienced raiders and geared appropriately. You probably won't resent an expectation to DPS once you are so easily handling healing requirements that you risk taking a nap if you don't do something else.

I'll do that. Would it be a good idea to try my Sch since it's already 60 (minus all of the new abilities which of course I'll go and get) and with Smn being my main dps class, a potentially easier transition into healing since I would already have the basics of dpsing down and would just need to learn to include healing as opposed to having to learn to include dpsing alongside healing and buffing with Ast? I dunno, I mean Sch was my very first healer, and back in 2.X content I adored it, but then swapped to Whm cause back then everyone clamoured about how much better Whm was over Sch, to which I then just ended up getting bored of Whm and stopped healing and adopted Smn as my main dps with Blm as a back up.

@Cynfael (because I didn't see your post at the time I was typing mine out): Yeah, I've been trying to run the dungeons for gear, but they have been favoring ranged and tanks lately so I've been having to make do with what I can find since all my old healing gear was vastly outdated (i90 Whm and Sch gear basically). I'll keep going. I do remember back when I first started the game and my Sch was decently geared at the time, I did play around a bit with dpsing, but that was a time where the idea of healers dpsing was more a negative than a positive or even mandatory and the only acceptable time for a Sch to dps was in low level dungeons when the fairy was way more than enough for healing. If that level of comfort can be found again at level 60 with appropriate gear, then I'll stop freaking out over the leveling process and grit my teeth until I'm 60 and then do a proper judgement once I'm geared. That or cave in and grind healer gear with Smn then convert it into a Sch and do that and use the older dungeons for practice before jumping into the expert ones.

honestly if your not wanting to hardcore raid savage anything, stick with AST as its fun.... otherwise SCH or WHM. Honestly I have fun with my AST but even after the buffs it still falls short in a few areas, replacing SCH means DPS is lowered and that makes the artificial difficulty increase in savage more difficult for the DPS, replacing WHM means you dont have as many utilities for emergency heals which you need.... alot, I also find that if the fight is too intense you dont have time to manage your little cardgame buffs, as you are too busy watching the bars and clicking people to even think about hitting the keys and taking the half seconds to work out if you need to hold/burn or just strait off cast it onto someone and who gets it.

Well I've gone back to my Whm and playing around with it and I dunno if something clicked or it's just easier, but I'm having a more comfortable time on my Whm. I'm even able to find times to do some dps, though it's only a couple Holys or putting up Cleric'd dots at the moment but it's more than what I was able to manage as Ast. I may try Whm more and at least get another attempt at healer gear in the dungeons as I level and once I get either it or Ast to 60, I'll use that gear to get a start on Sch and get a better idea of which one is for me, though the way it seems now, it may be that Ast may not be the Job for me after all even though it's concept is the closet to what I've played in the past. Seems I'll just have to find a healing style that works for me in this MMO that can accommodate the needs of the healer role while keeping me feeling comfortable.