Alex Savage dps requirements?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ckc22

How are healers doing with dpsing without any accuracy? Or did the hardcore groups that already clear do melded acc acc to get around this?

---

Combust, Combust II, Bio and Bio II don't require accuracy.

Only way how they can avoid make healers doing dps is make really hard heal checks where you simply have no time 2 do dps.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

Where did the person ever say healers should go full dps? He said healing and dps, and yes you can do this even on oppressor. It's directed at the weird gremlins who don't want to do any dps at all and carry around that yoshi quote as validation, as if any raid group is going to pick them over a healer who does the same healing and some dps because yoshi said so.

---

if you read the full thing, i said first the dps have to do their part and that on the actual boss, opressor, you do not have the luxury of for example the WHm going 800 dps for 25% of the fight.

Then he said i need to stop being bad and need to heal and dps trough the whole fight, as if its the healers resposibility to meet dps requirements when the boss does tankbusters, heavy reaid ae and nukes dps for 15k+ at the same time.
Go try and heal it and tell me about doing dps and heal at the same time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nague

if you read the full thing, i said first the dps have to do their part and that on the actual boss, opressor, you do not have the luxury of for example the WHm going 800 dps for 25% of the fight.

Then he said i need to stop being bad and need to heal and dps trough the whole fight, as if its the healers resposibility to meet dps requirements when the boss does tankbusters, heavy reaid ae and nukes dps for 15k+ at the same time.
Go try and heal it and tell me about doing dps and heal at the same time.

---

Based on your words of course you can't heal and DPS at the same time, lmao. Know when you need to exit Cleric and heal and know when your DPS windows and and go back in Cleric to throw your DoTs and stuffs.

Lucrezia have already released their A1S clear video and that's a SCH PoV BTW. If you don't know how go and watch it and learn.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zumi

They said it wasn't taken into account for normal but for savage yes.

---

Except the quote from the interview I posted on page 3 with link said both. I'm tired of healers being told they are bad for not dps'n we don't tell you you're bad for not helping heal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mission

Or just play how you want to play..I don't play a healer to be dps..I play a healer cause I enjoy healing..I play a dps to dps

---

And that's fine. You can play that way outside of savage. Good thing savage is optional.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sunako

Only way how they can avoid make healers doing dps is make really hard heal checks where you simply have no time 2 do dps.

---

I actually like these.

I'm a masochist though.

Quote:

---

And that's fine. You can play that way outside of savage. Good thing savage is optional.

---

And by the time everyone gets 195 or so you'll be able to do savage comfortably without your healers dpsing.

Win win.

http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/315767Sanstitre.jpg

I can say without our healer's dps we probably can't pass it with the actual stuff.

The Scholar beating Paladin in dps seems off. Did Pally die during the fight? That Bard kicked some ass on the dps...represent....and they say Bards suck...what??? LOL

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Khyan

http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/315767Sanstitre.jpg

I can say without our healer's dps we probably can't pass it with the actual stuff.

---

My faust clears are like caster/melees 1350-1400 and healers under 200. Just saying there doesn't have to be THAT much pressure on the healer. Lovely bard parse there also :3

ps: probably should remove the parse, probably those parse hating cry babies will report etc

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ooshima

Based on your words of course you can't heal and DPS at the same time, lmao. Know when you need to exit Cleric and heal and know when your DPS windows and and go back in Cleric to throw your DoTs and stuffs.

Lucrezia have already released their A1S clear video and that's a SCH PoV BTW. If you don't know how go and watch it and learn.

---

oh yeah, the SCH of the best ff14 raid is casting a few dots sometimes when the WHM has things covered, thats totally proof that healers are to be held accountable for not doing X dps.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mikedizzy

The Scholar beating Paladin in dps seems off. Did Pally die during the fight? That Bard kicked some ass on the dps...represent....and they say Bards suck...what??? LOL

---

The pld is grabbing adds, pld have never been known to have good aoe dps

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nague

oh yeah, the SCH of the best ff14 raid is casting a few dots sometimes when the WHM has things covered, thats totally proof that healers are to be held accountable for not doing X dps.

---

At this point I'd just hold you accountable for your terrible attitude. No one is being compensated, everyone is reaching for their maximum output healers included because enrage is being beaten by only a few seconds and if you don't like this then enjoy not clearing for a while.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sessurea

My faust clears are like caster/melees 1350-1400 and healers under 200. Just saying there doesn't have to be THAT much pressure on the healer. Lovely bard parse there also :3

ps: probably should remove the parse, probably those parse hating cry babies will report etc

---

We are accustomed to DPS (and heal of course) anyway.

Of course bard is fine, our bard even more. It's my friend and I like to do some challenge with him, like primals EX at 3.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nague

oh yeah, the SCH of the best ff14 raid is casting a few dots sometimes when the WHM has things covered, thats totally proof that healers are to be held accountable for not doing X dps.

---

I agree holding all groups to the same standards as one who is probably considered the best of the best is unfair for sure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Garlyle

I've heard of 6500 DPS being sufficient to clear... and 8000 DPS being insufficient.

---

Could it be that the 8000 enrage was on Faust, and the 6500 clear was on Oppressor? From what I've heard the Oppressor has an HP check on tanks so dps requirement wasn't as high as Faust.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wobble

Again I say I'm getting sick of This argument where people like to say if the healer doesn't dps they aren't contributing (pulling their weight) to/with the group. Well don't go in with the two healers and take a couple extra dps along and tell me how far you get when none of them can contribute to your health bar. ;)

And also I say again gear up first.

---

TBH I won't disagree with you

It depends on what level of raiding you and/or your group wants to play at.

What I said would be more relevant for competitive teams who are aiming for the fastest clear they can. Of course that would be the understood pre-requisite.

But of course if your group and yourself are fine at not obtaining the clear this week or even next week to come then of course feel free to ease on your expectations.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zfz

Could it be that the 8000 enrage was on Faust, and the 6500 clear was on Oppressor? From what I've heard the Oppressor has an HP check on tanks so dps requirement wasn't as high as Faust.

---

6500DPS is on Faust.

Oppressor itself is about 4800DPS, 8:30min enrage timer.

6000 is sufficient on Faust with no damage on adds. The reason why the numbers vary is that people are padding on the adds which is pointless.

4950 is the target on oppressor. That is a number with 3 jumps to consider.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nadirah

Combust, Combust II, Bio and Bio II don't require accuracy.

---

I'm well aware...

The DPS requirement for A1 Oppressor may vary, because it is all about how much you push down before he splits. The harder you push until split, the better. you may want to have one healer (preferably SCH) to dps mostly until he splits

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ooshima

If you are looking for a clear in A1 at least this week, good luck if you continue to think that way.

---

I don't care to clear it first week.

Never do. They're usually bug filled holes in the first week.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nadirah

I don't care to clear it first week.

Never do. They're usually bug filled holes in the first week.

---

That is a cheap excuse. Except T5, every turn was working fine generally with some adjustments to hinder specific strategies (T12 blackfire). But nowhere they were 'bugfilled' holes. FCOB was also cleared first week. As said, just a cheap excuse for your inability to do it first week.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SonTensei

unfortunately you dont have the option to not dps, maybe around 3.15

---

as an AST its really really hard find time to DPS. And MP is a problem too so i really dont know how can a AST do card management ,healing and 450+dps as people says...

*Yoshi-P said they calculate the dmg based only on DPS and tank damage so i think healers should have an option to NOT dps if they dont want (or if they arent able to do it like AST at the current state)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arcana

as an AST its really really hard find time to DPS. And MP is a problem too so i really dont know how can a AST do card management ,healing and 450+dps as people says...

*Yoshi-P said they calculate the dmg based only on DPS and tank damage so i think healers should have an option to NOT dps if they dont want (or if they arent able to do it like AST at the current state)

---

If you are only going to do something because of what yoshi said then you are only going to clear it when he wants you to. You may as well not step into A1 right now, it's not possible without healer DPS.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nadirah

I don't care to clear it first week.

Never do. They're usually bug filled holes in the first week.

---

That's your loss. You're missing out on a chance of a drop and a guaranteed token just because you don't want to DPS. You're holding your group back until your tanks and DPS get better gear. Faust and Oppressor are well designed and simple mechanically, and you have a ton of time to throw in a few DoTs. Not buggy either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wobble

Again I say I'm getting sick of This argument where people like to say if the healer doesn't dps they aren't contributing (pulling their weight) to/with the group. Well don't go in with the two healers and take a couple extra dps along and tell me how far you get when none of them can contribute to your health bar. ;)

And also I say again gear up first.

---

It's true though. Every bit of DPS helps with Faust, and you want as much burst as possible before the second Oppressor spawns so it has less HP. There's nothing to stop you going into Cleric Stance to cast your DoTs, you have stuff like Regen/Aspected Benific/Selene/the other healer to heal while you can't. There are plenty of chances to DPS with no risk like during Resin Bomb cast. Sure, you can wait until you're better geared if you want, but you'll miss several weeks of drops/tokens. Or you could take advantage of your full skillset and clear week one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grotesque

That is a cheap excuse. Except T5, every turn was working fine generally with some adjustments to hinder specific strategies (T12 blackfire). But nowhere they were 'bugfilled' holes. FCOB was also cleared first week. As said, just a cheap excuse for your inability to do it first week.

---

Because a 10 year history of games has told me that:

Raiding on patch day is a bad idea
New content tends to be buggy as shit for awhile
"Adjustments" will happen in the next week
And
The stress isn't good for my blood pressure.

That last ones a pretty good excuse if you ask me. But go ahead with the elitism. It's amusing.

If everyone is safe and MP is not an issue, the healer of course SHOULD DPS.
There is no reason to sit there twiddling thumbs, or even worse overhealing for no reason.

But of course this requires a very good knowledge of the fight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Launched

That's your loss. You're missing out on a chance of a drop and a guaranteed token just because you don't want to DPS. You're holding your group back until your tanks and DPS get better gear. Faust and Oppressor are well designed and simple mechanically, and you have a ton of time to throw in a few DoTs. Not buggy either.

---

My heal comp is WHM/AST.

We don't care to clear anything first week. Healer dps or no, our actual DPS class damage needs to go up before we can kill anything in there.

I quit the bleeding edge progression years ago. It was fun 5 years ago, but now, I'm enjoying less migraines and lower blood pressure.

Do we know if it's currently required for healers to continue to contribute DPS after Oppressor splits, or should the damage they put out in the first phase be enough? Obviously right now my static is still working out the kinks of the fight, but it feels like damage after the split is too high to risk any time in cleric.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MisterLucie

Do we know if it's currently required for healers to continue to contribute DPS after Oppressor splits, or should the damage they put out in the first phase be enough? Obviously right now my static is still working out the kinks of the fight, but it feels like damage after the split is too high to risk any time in cleric.

---

If your DPS cannot do it without you > No
If your DPS can make it without you > Yes

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MisterLucie

Do we know if it's currently required for healers to continue to contribute DPS after Oppressor splits, or should the damage they put out in the first phase be enough? Obviously right now my static is still working out the kinks of the fight, but it feels like damage after the split is too high to risk any time in cleric.

---

As mentioned elsewhere, the DPS requirement from healers (and tanks) will vary depending on your own DPS, but I would typically be pushing 500-600ish DPS + 1500ish HPs up until the split, after that my DPS get's much more opportunistic with a couple of notable opportunities to get dots up whilst the whm and fairy cover. I ended the encounter at 330/2200

In regards to the bickering on this thread, I really don't understand why people feel so strongly about this 'argument' and insist on trying their utmost to discredit anyone else's view. I'm about as much of a career healer/support player as it's possible to be with a track record dating back 16 years to Everquest at launch (More if you count anatomy in UO!). If I had the choice I'd be playing the full heal/no dps role everytime but alas I'm progression and thus need to DPS to help the group beat the checks early. For those that are anti DPS, that's fine and entirely valid, just please respect those that are willing to DPS and stop derailing every last topic on the matter with your pseudo book thumping. It really is quite boring at times =(

Hmm... if possible I would like to know the ilvl the BRDs had on Faust when they killed it, especially the 1230 one :p
Being i183 BRD, it seems my limit is around 1170. Perhaps multi-dotting adds to boost Bloodletter would help ?
We decided there won't be any Ballad/Pean in this fight, only Foe so I can't hide behind the "My support is killing my DPS !!", and if MP regen is mandatory I leave it to our MCH so I can Foe some more.

We cleared Faust with our Ninja still in Aery and Vault greens (not even Library ones) + Hive Weapon, so dps check is not that bad.

Fights were also designed with higher ilevel in mind. To push that in current gear you'll need healer dps, he states that in the interview you just quoted.

Our healers hit 400 on faust between them and that was good enough to kill.

It was probably not even meant to zerg down in the first place, everyone freaking out over dps check instead of a strat. Yoshi looking over us laughing hard...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Avero

It was probably not even meant to zerg down in the first place, everyone freaking out over dps check instead of a strat. Yoshi looking over us laughing hard...

---

I would say, it was meant to zerg it down, because it doesn't matter whether you kill the adds or not, the stacks don't go away. With Faust you have the following:

- do you have DPS who know their rotation
- do you have tanks who can snap aggro and keep hate
- do you have healers who can heal the increasing dmg input

If all 3 points are fulfilled, you are allowed to take your chance on Alex savage, otherwise it says GTFO of Alex savage, go back to normal and get no 4000 gil.

Why would healers waste their time dpsing when they don't even have accuracy on gear atm anyway?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mission

Why would healers waste their time dpsing when they don't even have accuracy on gear atm anyway?

---

Because it's required with current gear. And the accuracy required seems pretty low anyways.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mission

Why would healers waste their time dpsing when they don't even have accuracy on gear atm anyway?

---

http://www.hitbox.tv/video/569779/description - 1400+ dps
I'm holding 1000+ in Alex 2 Savage for at least the first half of the gauntlet.

That's why

look at some world top 10 opressor parses, required heals are so high that 1 healer is almost always at 0 dps and the other at 200.



But go on, tell your healers they need to do 500 dps and then cry at them when someone dies.