fine sand no longer sold at npc after 1.19

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Originally Posted by Kahri

4 lightning shards + tiger cod/striped goby = 12 wind shards
4 lightning shards + finger shrimp/tree toad = 12 water shards
4 lightning shards + pipira/scallop shell/ocean cloud/vongola clam = 12 fire shards
4 lightning shards + merlthor goby/rainbow trout = 12 ice shards
4 lightning shards + maiden carp/black scorpion = 12 earth shards

....and to top it all off....

4 lightning shards + malm kelp/brass loach = 12 lightning shards

....I'm guessing malm kelp won't be considered such a trash item anymore ^^.

In short:

(i) stock up on fine sand before the update if you have the space available.
(ii) save using fine sand after the update on desynthing lightning crystals to shards if anything - because it looks like the lightning shards will be in demand.
(iii) be prepared to fish a lot.

A ls mate was worrying about this yesterday. I'm not particularly concerned as I like to do my own fishing and alchemy desynths, and I don't worry about crystal selling/buying. IMHO the update makes it more difficult to desynth to shards in great quantities, but it doesn't prevent it, so the end result will probably be higher shard cost, which should also encourage people to fish and desynth their own, rather than relying on buying due to the likely increased prices.

It doesn't stop people buying shards if they want to, but it does mean that players who farm their own through fishing and desynthing will have a mat cost and profit margin advantage over the players who don't.

I don't see a problem with it.

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P.S. Additionally the extra effort needed to either obtain fine sand, or fish up the specific fish species will likely lead to a greater drain on RMT resources, thereby possibly making the overall process less appealing to them.

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these are good solutions, so I will give u credit there, but its just more work for us. It was stated that the purpose of recent crafting changes were to simplify things - but this change does the contrary for alchemists. Also, not worried about the RMT, they probably make up far less than 1% of the server population. This number is a guesstimate based on the fact that for every 100 people I see, they are not bots with conspicuous names. As i see it, the RMT population is completely negligible. Shit, the game is even free and I still don't see any.

With this change and gear becoming consumable the price of shards is about to rocket. SE will look into it when the price becomes an issue.

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Originally Posted by Xenor

With this change and gear becoming consumable the price of shards is about to rocket. SE will look into it when the price becomes an issue.

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Well, with gathering fatigue going away, this should be counter-acted a bit.

Also, fine sand is a CUL byproduct ranks 1-50... it really isn't hard to come by. All of us CUL's have just been NPCing it since well, there was no profit in it. Now, I don't expect it to ever be expensive but it stacks and if it sells quick, might be worth selling for cheap, so others have access. I'm also sure you will be able to chat up a CUL friend (and really if you're ranking ALC you should have one or two anyway) and maybe do a cooking oil/couple stacks of sand exchange. Or grind up some grains for them...a CUL that actually cooks enjoys rye flour/wheat flour.

yea im sure its not that hard to get, but the main issue for me is that you can only craft 40 items per hour if you spam standard synthesis - and maybe 70 if you spam hasty hand. I go through lots of this stuff, so its just adding another step of the process for me and going to take a couple hours just to make enough sand. Then, i still need to break down my fish into crystals and then break the crystals down into shards - its all very very time consuming and this extra time sink really pisses me off - im already doing more than enough. OH and I also need to catch the fish as well....So yea...fuck this shit...i will just buy it from the market when i run out, i hope you CUL are going to be mass producing it.

okay... but i never suggested that YOU craft the sand. I said trade for it or buy it from an actual player, someone that can put the money to use...NPC's just burn it in a bonfire...I've seen them :P.

Also, CUL will only start selling it if/when there's a known demand for it. So in the beginning, talking to a friend or even going to the guild and asking if anyone has it for sale, should help you...albeit, it's currently a quiet guild. But currently, it's like 358ish from npc...so if you offered a CUL 350 ea. a sand, you'd be saving a hair of gil per stack with the pc instead of buying from an NPC. Also, you *can* set your retainer up to buy if for you (although I don't know how many people look for 'buyers')

And trust me, I understand the 'it's a pain to add this to my synth-load' rant BUT you're whining to a CUL about this. Thank God my LS loves me and I have rank 50 BTN's/FSH's that 'donate'/farm for me...but even with this, I'm out fishing AND as BTN just to gather the mats I need. You need a stack of sand and a stack of fish. I need on average 6 items per synth for rank 40+ synths.

I do get it... it sucks that right now, you need to rely on 'the weakest/least popular' craft to get a synth item that is your bread and butter. But I really do think if you start talking to someone who's ranking CUL (esp. someone on the 'fish grinding path), you'll be able to work something out. I know I'd give an ALC (meaning free) a stack or two of sand if they just grinded some of my wheat/rye into flour or made me some olive oils. (and I can make these, it'd just be nice to save time) I don't even rank my cul on 'fish grinding, but i'd grab my oysters and go 'pearl hunting' if it'd help someone out.

Lastly, I NPC'd sand today because I didn't know this whole 'sand thing' I'll save it now, sell it when I stack it. But all you ALC's need to let people know 'hey, I need this because SE changed my seller, can you help me?' Just be fair back and you'll get good treatment.

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Originally Posted by StateAlchemist

Also, they know RMT bots are fishing to infinitely generate shards to sell in MW. Fine Sand disappearing from an NPC doesn't surprise me or anger me at all. It literally shuts down the crystal > shard end of the RMT shard bots. Now instead of farming fish that give 3x the crystals needed to synth it they will be forced to fish for ones that make the actual shards, or split their bots to farm sand.

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This thesis is unsound. The bots will keep botting fish and botting the sand. This change will only serve to increase the price of shards making botting them more lucrative. At the same time it will be much less likely to see regular player going through all of this work, especially when they can remember simply being able to buy it off an Npc for 36k a stack.

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

Also, fine sand is a CUL byproduct ranks 1-50... it really isn't hard to come by. All of us CUL's have just been NPCing it since well, there was no profit in it. Now, I don't expect it to ever be expensive but it stacks and if it sells quick, might be worth selling for cheap, so others have access. I'm also sure you will be able to chat up a CUL friend (and really if you're ranking ALC you should have one or two anyway) and maybe do a cooking oil/couple stacks of sand exchange. Or grind up some grains for them...a CUL that actually cooks enjoys rye flour/wheat flour.

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This is 100% incorrect. Cul's make Sea Sand and River sand. It take 6 of each for a GSM to make one fine sand. that 6 Fish synth + 1 GSM + 1 ALK to break one crystal. it take about an hour to do 40 synths, so youre now looking at ~10 minutes to break one crystal.

this is indeed correct - plus the number of shards you will need to make all the sand will kill any shard gains you get by breaking down the crystals when you do finally have the sand. for example u will need 6-12 wind shards just to make 6 sands + at least 6 fish. if you finally use the fine sand to break down a wind crystal, your net gain is only 4-10 shards. for the alchemist who wants to do everything himself, he will now also be required to level cul and gsm. this is completely undermining the purpose of the simplified crafting.

@ Celtodeno: i agree. Also, it is also completely wrong to assume that all bots are RMT, that is simply not the truth. Probably only a very small fraction of bots are RMT. I know several people in the game who bot just because they want to make themselves more wealthy and dont have the time to do it themselves for whatever reason. Also, 10 minutes to break 1 crystal is completely ridiculous. I break down crystals 50-100 at a time. Like I said previously, there were so many changes that it is literally impossible for the devs to have thought them all through. removing fine sand from npc is a mistake.

it would be great if we could get a community rep response in here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mustang, you got no right claiming there are no RMT bots, etc. just checked your lodestone a couple of times, your fishing is going up to fast for not having any other classes, meaning you bot, wait after fatigue and restart. Mustang is not your main, that much is easy to see.

Btw, i see you just joined here in september, what was your last forum troll account?

:D :D :D :D :D

bump bump bump

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Originally Posted by Ceons

Edit: Was it really necessary to start two threads about this?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-SHAFT-IN-1.19

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You mean 3

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...NPC-AFTER-1.19

And why the heck on all 3 posts Aykatu Yitaku is replying with the same crap?

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Originally Posted by Celtodeno

This is 100% incorrect. Cul's make Sea Sand and River sand. It take 6 of each for a GSM to make one fine sand. that 6 Fish synth + 1 GSM + 1 ALK to break one crystal. it take about an hour to do 40 synths, so youre now looking at ~10 minutes to break one crystal.

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Yup, I'm wrong... in no way does sea/river sand synth into fine sand...and in no way is it doable by a rank 1 goldsmith. Also no mobs in the whole game drop it for decent rates...so your rants are completely valid. (only well over a dozen different mobs drop it...some with estimated drop rates between 20-50%)

Look, I gave you a solution. I get 'this sucks' . Honesty, grinding shards isn't something ALC's should enjoy doing or be proud their class can do anyway. ALC is supposed to create potions,powders and dyes that have useful powers....shard milling seems lame. Oh, and not overly necessary considering people with DOW/DOM/DOL can farm them quicker than you can synth them even before this patch came out. (At least assuming you farmed some of your mats) I honestly think shard grinding was just something they gave you all to do while no one was buying anything you all crafted or selling the basic mats you needed for a decent amount. (I NEVER have had to buy shards....I actually end up selling shards and excess crystals)

Now they made potion grinding (for exp, not profit) more doable with the 1:1 ratios. Which many ALC's asked for by the way. Slowly, this 1:1 will also add value to your potions ...especially once they add effects, since they will be more time consuming to create, more expensive to craft (if you buy mats) and more in demand. The 1:1 ratio also prevents someone from literally owning the market with a couple base mats. So one day, potions will be your bread and butter...which quite frankly, they always should have been.

So excuse me from trying to give you a suggestion: How dare I not clarify that you would yes, need to turn around and use your rank 1 Goldsmith tool (or have ANYONE in the game do it for you) to grind those sea/river sands into fine sand.

@ kinsey, i agree with your points. the main problem is what i outlined in the original post, namely that you could very well lose more shards than you gain after the entire process of creating the fine sand is complete - which would defeat the purpose of making it. also, i fully agree alc should be creating potions and such, but the only utility we have at this point is breaking down fish and crystals, other than that we are completely useless.

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Originally Posted by Fullmetal

@ kinsey, i agree with your points. the main problem is what i outlined in the original post, namely that you could very well lose more shards than you gain after the entire process of creating the fine sand is complete - which would defeat the purpose of making it. also, i fully agree alc should be creating potions and such, but the only utility we have at this point is breaking down fish and crystals, other than that we are completely useless.

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Yeah, and I am hoping that patch 1.20 is very kind to the ALC's... it's a shame your usable potions/powders etc don't get more love. I am hoping the loss of physical levels and patch 1.20 fix this. I have the same hope for CUL. I would have preferred the CUL/ALC revamp happened first THEN the introduction of Materia crafting...just to make it more even for ALL the crafters, but SE had other ideas. Hopefully we'll see some love late Nov.

I for one am waiting for sneak and invisible potions/powders...hopefully they get that recipe to you all soon :)

well, it seems that despite our efforts and the reasonable argument put forth in the original post, that we will have to live with this bad change. Stock up guys!!!!

Oh noes! I didn't buy any :D

There won't be much of a market for sand because crystals and shards are so cheap.

To the extent that river or sea sand moves on the market, it will probably come from mining rather than culinarians, because the culinarians would want too much money for it because of the shards used to make it.

Thus the only market for sand now is for alchemists who want to use it to level up on...but there will probably be cheaper pathways.

So overall, getting rid of fine sand is thus a boon to RMT because it will help to increase demand and boost prices for crystals and shards. They have huge huge huge huge stockpiles of crystals and shards already.

This is another change that makes me suspect that there are corrupt SE employees who work with the RMT companies for a fee or a cut of the profits or whatever.

I guess we'll see how it plays out, but I'm pretty confident RMT will soon be acquiring a lot of gil from players as shard prices rise again.

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Originally Posted by Waaltar

There won't be much of a market for sand because crystals and shards are so cheap.

To the extent that river or sea sand moves on the market, it will probably come from mining rather than culinarians, because the culinarians would want too much money for it because of the shards used to make it.

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Trueish...but no CUL ever sits down to 'purposely make sand for profit' they make it as a byproduct of ranking up/attempting HQ gem/stone results...so the shard cost is just the 'cost of business'. Not saying to expect a lot to appear in the markets, but considering in the past I only NPC'd since I thought it wouldn't sell, maybe now it's worth selling for 350-500 ea. But again, I'm not factoring in shard cost since when I get sand it was while trying to rank/HQ anyway.

Although this patch kinda really killed cooks for the moment, so I don't know how many are out there grinding on fish. But if you find one, maybe you can ask for their sand (many might just say sure, take it). That's the approach I'd take.
That and maybe look into potions/and regents that might make more sense to exp on now with changes made.

I need mah sand!

As many predicted, shard prices have risen already by about 20%, but RMT retainers have decreased in the wards by at least 50% on Bodhum. There just isn't any other reasonable way to make shards any longer aside from self-gathered fish or buying the cheap ones at the vendor in LL.

I have absolutely no idea why someone thought this would be a good idea, without a compensating factor for alchemists...like at least leaving fine sand up until 1.20 when the new recipes are out.

One can only hope that there's a new conversion recipe by the time that patch hits, or pretty much every leveling alchemist will be forced to level fishing as well.

People just have to go catch the fish now... Malm kelp is relatively easy if you need lightning shards. Wind and Earth fish you can find at limsa for cheap to make with lightning shards.

Can still buy shards in the wards! This could be an attempt from the developers to form a basis from which to kickstart the non-existant economy in this game in the next patch or two.

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Originally Posted by SeleneVenizelos

Can still buy shards in the wards! This could be an attempt from the developers to form a basis from which to kickstart the non-existant economy in this game in the next patch or two.

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I think people still bought shards and crystals prior to this change....

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Originally Posted by Reika

I think people still bought shards and crystals prior to this change....

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Yeah, but now they'll have no choice but to pay the inflated prices. :)

I feel it was unfair that people bought tons and tons of Fine sand right before patch and now they have it easy and making tons of Gil off of Shard. For people who didn't they have it the hard way and there is no profit from making Fine Sand and turn it into Shard, not only that it required a ridiculous amount of time. If you gonna do this should have make Fine Sand a completely new recipe and call it something else and get rid of Fine Sand, it is only Fair!

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Originally Posted by SeleneVenizelos

Yeah, but now they'll have no choice but to pay the inflated prices. :)

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What inflated prices? Shard prices back to pre-1.19 levels on Kashuan for a while now.
Granted that means the RMT is back again.