Leveling a Dragoon after Heavensward - Bye bye Immerson! (MASSIVE SPOILERS INSIDE)

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Originally Posted by Kiara1

This is the reason I cant immerse into the story.

Yshtolas sister is my summoner trainer, yet when we met she didnt act like she knew me. And she and I literally just saw eachother.she even taught me a spell. Is a simple "hi how are you?" Too much to ask.

Also having a single player story in an mmorpg is kinda lame.

The main characters are saying the exact same thing to me and my alt.
they are just using us both :(

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Really? She greeted me with something along the lines of "Hello Rin, how are your studies going?"

When I managed to get around the ARR story, I was already a NIN and had a very odd feel when I met Yugiri for the first time.
They saying "oh we come from a far away land and have a different way of combat" and there I was with my daggers hanging on my belt :|

Yup, was wondering what would have they done about the DRG quest... guess nothing, huh?

If it's from 2.0 it's locked in a time bubble.

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Originally Posted by Averax

If it's from 2.0 it's locked in a time bubble.

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Such a cop-out. They should have just been more careful making 3.0 to avoid this problem. It's not like it's a new concept, SE have been doing MMOs for 14 years now, this is the first time I've seen this line of reasoning.

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Originally Posted by Aegis

Such a cop-out. They should have just been more careful making 3.0 to avoid this problem. It's not like it's a new concept, SE have been doing MMOs for 14 years now, this is the first time I've seen this line of reasoning.

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Or maybe you should just stop overthinking things. Change your outlook.

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Originally Posted by Aegis

Such a cop-out. They should have just been more careful making 3.0 to avoid this problem. It's not like it's a new concept, SE have been doing MMOs for 14 years now, this is the first time I've seen this line of reasoning.

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So either you want them to entirely redo all the old quest every expansion, just not move the story forward, or have our character play no major role so it doesn't matter.

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Originally Posted by hagare

you did it in the wrong order.
if you had finished the DRG quest first, when you first meet estinien in the main story he'll recognize and acknowledge you.

this is basically the same reaction when people did the CUL Quest after nanamo was poisoned

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Lol and this is what actually bothered me by the ending of 2.0 and all of the 3.0 history.
If you did all the DGN quests Estinien hates you, he tryed to kill you, you kick his a** , he pleads to Nidhogg for more power and you still kick his a** and "it seems like" you kill him.
Now, not only he shows up alive & kicking at the end of 2.0, but has no issue with you and you have no issue with him?....trolololol

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Originally Posted by Aegis

Such a cop-out. They should have just been more careful making 3.0 to avoid this problem. It's not like it's a new concept, SE have been doing MMOs for 14 years now, this is the first time I've seen this line of reasoning.

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Here's a wild idea. Why didn't you complete all the available quests and content before the expansion dropped? Oh is that a ridiculous request to demand of a player. Weird, kind of like demanding the dev team to remake old content instead of focusing on the new content.

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Originally Posted by Chukkaque

Here's a wild idea. Why didn't you complete all the available quests and content before the expansion dropped? Oh is that a ridiculous request to demand of a player. Weird, kind of like demanding the dev team to remake old content instead of focusing on the new content.

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1) Players starting after an expansion is dropped should complete all quests and side-quests before they move on to the expansion? what?

2) Actually I'm asking them to be careful with the new content, not retcon the old.

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Originally Posted by MrSmiley

So either you want them to entirely redo all the old quest every expansion, just not move the story forward, or have our character play no major role so it doesn't matter.

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See above: Make a new story that allows you to do the quests that can be done in any order in any order without internal consistensy errors. It's not like this is some crazy new standard I'm asking for, it's pretty much the minimum.

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Originally Posted by Aegis

Such a cop-out. They should have just been more careful making 3.0 to avoid this problem. It's not like it's a new concept, SE have been doing MMOs for 14 years now, this is the first time I've seen this line of reasoning.

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I see only 2 option to avoid it
1. Estinien should have never show up in the MSQ
2. finished DRG lv 50 job quest should be a requirement for the one quest in the MSQ where Estinien join you

It's actually an excellent decision to lock the job quests into the time period in the MSQ when they were first made available. Otherwise you'd have to write multiple iterations of the questline for every possible way that players could do them, which would be a massive waste of time and resources.

For instance, say there's a 2.0 version of the DRG quest and a 3.0 one. What do they do if someone gets DRG to 40 and then plays through HW before picking it up again? How would they handle the storyline then? It's ridiculously over-complicated and there's no good reason to do it that way. Best to just say that all of the original job quests take place in 2.0.

Oh interestingly enough on this topic, I completed the main story quest on Warrior and then returned to level up dragoon after the MSQ was finished.
The first thing Alberic says is "Oh! I'm glad to see you're alive and well. It's shame the eye consumed Estinienne".

There's no problem with it at all, just a few that don't understand the chronology of the story and make a big deal out of nothing. Some things obviously happened before others. It's not hard to understand and it does not break immersion. In relation to the OP's complaint, your comparison makes absolutely no sense and you seem to just be very salty about the perfectly reasonable explanation of why the new jobs are locked behind 3.0

Based on what you want, if you want to start with a new job, all of 2.0-2.55 should just be a flashback. So...when you play that flashback, you wouldn't have the new jobs anyway, since it's a flashback before you have the job you want to start on. And since you obviously cant start with a lvl 30 job, you have to start with a normal one and play through the "flashback" before you can get to your current one. So it's essentially the exact same thing as now. Except, SE cut the BS and just said to do the story first.

There's nothing immersion breaking or lore ruining about what they did at all. It's not hard to understand that some things happened before others. it's no an excuse, it's not cheap, you are just nitpicking over answers you don't like, even if they are the correct ones.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

Hah! I was genuinly curious how they handled this when I saw the end of the 3.0 story. Funny thing is, I'm sure the same people who debated locking jobs behind Ishgard for "Lore Reasons" will likely rationalize this as being "Two different time periods" and say that the events of the cutscenes of DRG 2.0 took place before the events of 3.0. Lul.

Thanks for the information! :) I was honestly wondering while going through the story if Mr.Azure's armor would be red, and then I got to the end and was like, "I HAVE SO MANY QUESTIONS..."


Edit: Hot ****, see? They've already started with their flimsy excuse. Gotta love that lore narrative only being important when it applies to what you care about o/

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So, what would you have them do? Make multiple lines of DRG quests depending on where in Heavenward you are? Also, the DRK quest draws heavily on events in 2.X, so locking it behind the 2.X story line makes sense.

Man, troubleshooting in hindsight is easy.

You guys should apply to SE as writers and producers...

Please rewrite all of the 2.0 lore to make some very non-imaginative people happy.

Seriously, we're fussing about this? Check please.

So in your situation, you actually would have seen Estinien saying text within Patch 2.5 that would have been different if you hadn't ever played as Dragoon up to that point, so it is that I have not seen.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

Edit: Hot ****, see? They've already started with their flimsy excuse. Gotta love that lore narrative only being important when it applies to what you care about o/

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not an excuse when it comes from a community rep. this was handled months ago after 2.55 in relation to the culinarian final quest. in which Nanamo is a key player. They simply said that the quest chronologically took place before Nanamo's 'death' and thus she was hale and healthy.

Infact, if you've done the DRG questline BEFORE heavensward, Estinien gets extra dialog regarding you being the azure dragoon too.

Him: -Does the Jitter bug and gets engulfed by Nhidhog;
Me: The fxck? ... I'ma avenge this guy and everything! -Runs to whatshisface DRG master;
-Begins quests and all;
-See's Eistenien w/e again;
YOU'RE ALIVE!1! -HUGS-
Him: Who the hells are you!?
Me: -Explains what happen:
Him: So...I...killed Nhidhog? MUWAHAHA! -Still had eye, turns into Nhidhog again;
Me: Wait wat the fck just happened lol.

I also found it hilarious how he's like "We''re two Azure Dragoons!"
-Sits there with my Spiny Globe thing; Eeeyup. Then all he does is scream at me to kill the minions while
he sits and does nothing much lol.

I might sound too forgiving but I'd prefer it this way over thinking "oh this guy's in a sidequest that can be taken at any time during the MSQ, s/he won't be going anywhere".

Don't know if it was mentioned but if you did all the DRG quests before 2.5, Eistinien actually has different text when he walks in. When he walking into the conference room he told me to relax and that he wasn't there to fight me again. Then again in the 3.0 story he specifically says that with TWO azure dragoons Nidhogg will not be a problem.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

I would love some more substance in your critique. Saying "I don't understand what you're trying to say" is a little but... vague. It makes it difficult to respond, because I don't necessarily know what to respond to. I suppose I will try to outline my thoughts:


1) Content should not be gated behind 3.0 story, because the same arguement that 2.0 content "Appeared in the past" on Dragoon, can be used to likewise say that the story of 2.0-2.55 "occured in the past." It's like watching the prequel to a movie (Even though 9/10 times that creates massive plotholes) after watching the first movie. It should only add to the story.

2) There are noted occurances where cheap excuses are given for things that don't quite make sense by my eye. The summoner being the biggest one I've noticed so far - where before, we fought the primals first and were bathed in their aether through combat, you now have that just being present at Cartaneu (I might be spelling it wrong, sorry) enables you to use Bahamut's Trance.

3) I do not think SE did a bad job. But I do think there are bad decisions made within the game design, which is my biggest thing that I always argue against. There will be various opinions on this, but it is what it is.

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Fuck man, the only realistic way you are going to get what you want is if SE required you to complete ALL pertinent previous expansion content before you get access to the next expansion. MMOs are a lot more massive than a movie or single player video game franchise. You can either get basic, glossed over reason for why your character can do something or not let your character do it at all.

The job quests have been out since 1.0. It has been over 5 years in Eorzean time. Just be glad you can still do the quests. If it was a single player game, you would have lost access to Dragoon or some stupid shit.

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Originally Posted by Kiara1

Yeah I met her in the main quest but I had met her already in my summoner quests. And she was all bitchy and didnt say hi.
Maybe im not cool enough to be her friend around other people :c

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Really? You must have had something weird happen, because when I did that part of the MSQ Y'mthira recognized who I was and addressed me as such.

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Originally Posted by Aegis

See above: Make a new story that allows you to do the quests that can be done in any order in any order without internal consistency errors. It's not like this is some crazy new standard I'm asking for, it's pretty much the minimum.

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minimum from where? where exactly are you pulling this from? time bubbles are actually very common when you have expansions that take place over an extended period of time (in game).

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

Really? You must have had something weird happen, because when I did that part of the MSQ Y'mthira recognized who I was and addressed me as such.



minimum from where? where exactly are you pulling this from? time bubbles are actually very common when you have expansions that take place over an extended period of time (in game).

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Well, SE managed 5 Expansions and 6 mini-expansions over 13 years for their last game and didn't make continuity errors like this. Making a continuity mistake and trying to hand-wave it away with some weird time-travel logic (seriously? flash-backs, time-bubbles? wtf) is just a lazy way of saying "We didn't think of continuity or we did, but we didn't care". I just hold the dev team to a higher standard than most of you guys it seems.

Keep settling for less and less it what you will get.

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Originally Posted by Dualblade

Also I did get summoner to 50 pre-HW and Y'mithra totally recognized me.

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Got to this point last night. SMN was my original main that I got to 50 last year when I first started out, and I got text from both Tataru and Y'mhitra that the latter and I both knew each other previously. When Tataru is asking me to go find her, she says something to the effect of "Oh, so you've met her before? That makes things so much easier...". And when first talking to Y'mhitra she greeted me by name and welcomed me back, "Ah, Deucalion, it's good to see you again. What brings you here?" (Or something along those lines).

I only did the first Drg quest, and he recognised me and acknowledged me as his friend lol

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Originally Posted by Aegis

Well, SE managed 5 Expansions and 6 mini-expansions over 13 years for their last game and didn't make continuity errors like this. Making a continuity mistake and trying to hand-wave it away with some weird time-travel logic (seriously? flash-backs, time-bubbles? wtf) is just a lazy way of saying "We didn't think of continuity or we did, but we didn't care". I just hold the dev team to a higher standard than most of you guys it seems.

Keep settling for less and less it what you will get.

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http://i.imgur.com/7wrz9tW.gif

FFXI avoided continuity errors by not including characters whose status quo ever changed in sidequests. (Or, in the case of the Shantotto expansion, having exceedingly lame excuses for NPCs remaining in place when they shouldn't.) It would be a waste of effort to account for every possibility, so if you want continuity, it means that any character that appears in any non-MSQ quest can never, ever die or have their status significantly changed. I'm willing to accept story contradictions to avoid that.