Turning DRK into a tank was a huge mistake.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

DRK in general was a huge mistake.

Broody edgy dawknesh stuff tends to get on my nerves.

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Have you done the job quests? The DRK's story is very much in line with HW's theme.

DRK tanking abilities are fine. Some players ability to know how to tank is not fine. Stop blaming the class and blame the bad players playing the class.

Our fc's tank main switched to Drk with HW and he absolutely loves it. He isn't terribly squishy to heal because he uses his cds properly and has a decent mixture of dps and vit gear. I've seen nearly all ends of the spectrum in my healings with tanks, and just because a tank feels squishy, does not mean its the failure of the class, rather the person pressing the buttons. I had a drk that have no tank cross skills and was squishy as hell, but the next run had one with all the cross class skills and was like healing a brick wall and damage pinged off of. Don't harp on a single class because people play poorly (because i can do that with all the classes all day).

Maybe the biggest problem is not the DRK, but the players who want to treat is as a DPS and refuse to play it as a tank? Hell, maybe the bigger problem is people who play the game for big damage numbers and view all else as less important than high deeps...

There are a lot of bad DRKs, Maybe because they're new to tanking? But almost everything I've done with a DRK they fail hard. They are like a wet cardboard box (step up from wet paper bag), they can't hold hate, then they try to do speed runs. It's horrible.

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Originally Posted by Arkista

There are a lot of bad DRKs, Maybe because they're new to tanking? But almost everything I've done with a DRK they fail hard. They are like a wet cardboard box (step up from wet paper bag), they can't hold hate, then they try to do speed runs. It's horrible.

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You just had bad luck. DRK isn't squishy at all and can speed run easily.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

Why, most of them put all attribute points in Strength, use full set of Strength accessories

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This is normal for all tanks, though.

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Originally Posted by Arkista

There are a lot of bad DRKs, Maybe because they're new to tanking? But almost everything I've done with a DRK they fail hard. They are like a wet cardboard box (step up from wet paper bag), they can't hold hate, then they try to do speed runs. It's horrible.

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It's not the job, it's the BAD players who fail miserably and have no ability to read description or do research on what their jobs and role should be. It is fairly common on almost every server, but most problematic in the US servers. And now you wonder why most players in the US server play DPS. They all think it is the easiest to play, until you know, DPS check huge WALL hit them straight in their face. And the fact these dadidumb DPS can't figure out the mechanic or avoiding AOE.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Maybe the biggest problem is not the DRK, but the players who want to treat is as a DPS and refuse to play it as a tank? Hell, maybe the bigger problem is people who play the game for big damage numbers and view all else as less important than high deeps...

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Welcome to the parser generation, where defense means nothing and it's the healer's fault if they're on the ground.

This is one reason I wish the devs would reconsider the amount of berth given to tanks. Especially regarding gearing away their VIT and parry. Many tanks are insisting that:

1. We have enough VIT on our armor, the VIT accessories are just extra HP that end up as overheal anyway.
2. Parry is garbage and unreliable garbage. Having 35% parry and 17% parry has no practical difference and we help the healer more by killing things faster.

Now regardless of whether that is true in end-game raiding, it is definitely not something to do during leveling and while still relatively undergeared (e.g. wearing 145 into 160 content. Wearing 170 into Alex). But the newbie tanks don't realize that, and they read about these analysis and fanatically avoid VIT accessories like the plague, even going as far as weaing DPS armor on their left-hand side.

Now if VIT is more than just HP, if parry "rate" is actually shown to us, tanks may just start to advocate to newbies to wear proper tanking gear, instead of everyone just saying, "lol, parry and VIT is unnecessary, get STR accessories and spec full STR if you wanna be a good tank."

What if Berserk and Fight or Flight scales on VIT? What if VIT gives extra magic defense bonus?

The way it is now, the general consensus is that wearing tanking accessories is a bad tank. And the devs seem to agree by staying completely silent on that matter. It's not just bad players, the devs are deep at the core of the problem with their stat changes and itemization.

Honestly as a healer I prefer to heal DRK over WAR. Healing a good WAR can be interesting in new content depending on the dungeon and gear levels, and God forbid you get a bad WAR in less than i164 trying to speed run Neverreap. Sure a bad DRK can get difficult to heal, but it is far from terrible.

The only thing squishier than a Drk is a bad Warrior. Ever seen how fast they drop? Know about the meteor that killed the dinosaurs? That wasn't a meteor, that was a terrible Warrior running into Sohm Al, doing the first mass pull up to the giant flower, eating every poison debuff, while wearing full slaying and in deliverance, and then dropping so hard the other side of the planet felt it.

Thanks terrible Warrior.

I don't know, I still like having VIT gear other than STR while tanking, I've been on the healers side and I can say that it's a relief when I don't have to babysit the tank the whole dungeon, you can focus better and have more room to fix team mistakes, otherwise you are like *Heal, heal, heal, heal, OMG tank almost died... HEAL, HEAL, HEAL! darn, DPS didn't move away from AoE in time... MEGA HEAL!* I find healing more stressing than tanking. :P

I can see the point of using STR gear if you know your treammates and the fight really well, but I use the Duty Finder most of the time, so I guess that's why I prefer to have more room for mistakes.

Oh look, this thread again.

DRK tanks are fine. Stop stating that all pies are bad when you had a bite in a bad pie.

All can be explained with pie.

Mm...pie.

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Originally Posted by CYoung187

If you judge all jobs by the people that are bad at them, then they are all mistakes.

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By Ramuh's Lalafel eating beard! You're right!

Meh it's not just the drks. The wars too. I don't know what's up with the tanks in 8 man DF. They're ALL in vit and they all seem to want to OT, even if I come in to the same instance as drk in full str accs. They obviously have more hp than me and they refuse to turn their tank stance on and refuses to pull. One DRK even pulled ravana HM in all vit after we both waited for each other and no grit and then proceeded to let ravana run wild. I decided to grab it for myself, which is fine (I dont care which OT/MT role I get but I'm only gonna sacrifice my str if I need to). I just don't understand why these people go all in on all vit and doesn't want to tank.

Edit: I just remembered that there was a pld with bigger hp than me that tried to pass off the MT role to me too. He wasn't new to the instance.

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Originally Posted by KrenianKandos

Oh look, this thread again.

DRK tanks are fine. Stop stating that all pies are bad when you had a bite in a bad pie.

All can be explained with pie.

Mm...pie.

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I want pie now... D:

To OP, don't stress so much about it, I'm sure a lot if us will get better with DRK in the long run, give it some time.

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Originally Posted by RedAntares

I don't know, I still like having VIT gear other than STR while tanking, I've been on the healers side and I can say that it's a relief when I don't have to babysit the tank the whole dungeon, you can focus better and have more room to fix team mistakes, otherwise you are like *Heal, heal, heal, heal, OMG tank almost died... HEAL, HEAL, HEAL! darn, DPS didn't moved away from AoE in time... MEGA HEAL!* I find healing more stressing than tanking. :P

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For my part, I absolutely hate strength tanks. I find them a pain in the backside to heal, and refuse to play as one since it's putting unnecessary strain on the healers.

The only time I consider it even remotely acceptable is when you're so overgeared for the content anyway that you could conceivably go in crafting accessories and still be considered godlike.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

For my part, I absolutely hate strength tanks. I find them a pain in the backside to heal, and refuse to play as one since it's putting unnecessary strain on the healers.

The only time I consider it even remotely acceptable is when you're so overgeared for the content anyway that you could conceivably go in crafting accessories and still be considered godlike.

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Co-sign. These hot dogs are a plague to real tanks who actually put DEFENSE ahead of their parser numbers. I often compare them to these run-and-gun NBA teams that leak like sieves on defense.

Healers don't like str tanks? What a surprise.

/s

How are you WHM's/SCH's handling DRK's?
[Do not look at my Job. This my sisters account.]

I'm literally on E with these guys on these mobs as an AST.
Please stop doing full pulls dammit! I dunno if it's them or the slow DPS, or the mobs hitting too hard or their HP is too much.
I actually can DPS a bit here and there but I'm constantly healing DRK's like nuts.
It's like they are a Weaker WAR and PLD mix...It's not good. I just did Bray and I used every cooldown to be alive and almost died..twice with a SCH healing his ass off and I'm up to date on gear with VIT acc's.
Think I'ma hang my sword up and focus the other two. Can't see my healer bro's struggling like hell....DRK's are fun to use, but I just don't like them as a tank...at all.
Everytime I see a DRK in NR or Fract:
https://cdn2.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/PCb...facepalm.0.gif
Hell commence!

Tanking as DRK is probably one of the most enjoyable parts of the game for me.

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Originally Posted by Mhikail

How are you WHM's/SCH's handling DRK's?

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No issue on WHM as of yet. On AST though... WHM has the benefit of divine seal, which affects regen and makes it a cakewalk to heal and DPS even if they don't use defensive cooldowns. AST's only luxury to help with the heals is Bole, which is unreliable to get when you need it. Or Ewer if you constantly have to spam Benefic II. Honestly i've noticed a lot more PLDs and WARs who don't use cooldowns on AST and it's bugging me.

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Originally Posted by Mhikail

How are you WHM's/SCH's handling DRK's?

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i main AST, (not sure if your question was directed at all healers or just those two, lots of people only list those two out of habit lol)

while lving . i'd get mostly DRK's who i'd have to spam benefic II to keep up... but doing ex roulettes, i have a DRK friend who's a breeze to heal. I can even dps a little bit.

basically the way i look at DRK is that there are really good ones. and reeally bad ones, Nothing in-between. (that I've seen)

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Originally Posted by Dualblade

The only place where Dark Knight was a DPS was XI, and from everything I've heard that was more because of players rather then what it was actually created to be by the devs (Same with Ninja which WAS a DPS class...at the start.) Pretty much every other Dark Knight in the FF games could be considered Tanky, its just not nearly as noticable since they are single-player games, where pretty much everything devolves to DPS/DPS who can take hits/Healer.

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I don't recall this being the case in FFXI . DRK has many skills that sacrifice HP and DEF at the cost of more dmg, it however has no defensive skills (and has low ranks in Evasion/parry)

You might be getting mixed up with Samurai. which may have been the Tank job of the first Expansion (its AF gear had VIT,HP , and a trait that relied on the Samurai getting attacked) it also has high parry rate, and a "perfect dodge"-like skill.

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Originally Posted by Delily

Have you done the job quests? The DRK's story is very much in line with HW's theme.

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Not yet. Planning to do some other jobs after I finish the main story. And in between leveling my Hand/Land classes.

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Originally Posted by KrenianKandos

Oh look, this thread again.

DRK tanks are fine. Stop stating that all pies are bad when you had a bite in a bad pie.

All can be explained with pie.

Mm...pie.

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But what happens if the oven's broken?

Hmmmm....knowing SE, DRK is supposed to be a hybrid DPS/tank class......lol. I couldn't help it. But no, really, I never really lvled a tank class, so I'm wondering if the mistake was making the DRK (and other HW Jobs) start out a lvl 30? I ask because normally in this game, you started the class at lvl 1 where you learned to use and incorporate skills as you lvl. even nin. I think if they would have started the jobs a lvl 1 and allowed people to get used to them, then they would have flowed better.

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Originally Posted by QiLymePye

Hmmmm....knowing SE, DRK is supposed to be a hybrid DPS/tank class......lol. I couldn't help it. But no, really, I never really lvled a tank class, so I'm wondering if the mistake was making the DRK (and other HW Jobs) start out a lvl 30? I ask because normally in this game, you started the class at lvl 1 where you learned to use and incorporate skills as you lvl. even nin. I think if they would have started the jobs a lvl 1 and allowed people to get used to them, then they would have flowed better.

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War is much, much closer to a Hybrid DPS/Tank class than Drk is. SE's goal seemed to just be a hybrid full tank with a supposed 'edge' in magic tanking, which didn't quite work out.

And personally, I feel Drk should have started at level 15. The minimum level to enter the first dungeon. But that aside, I cant really see that as being a mistake. People adapt to new jobs differently, and the path from 30 - 60 is more than enough for you to learn how the job works. If someone cannot pick up their job even after that, then that job just isn't for them.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

It was a major oversight by a development team to make a traditional DPS class as a tank.

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In your opinion..

OP is correct though. There are SOOOOOOOO many terrible DRK out there it's insane. You literally do have to babysit them or they die instantly. And don't try telling them it's otherwise on no! It's your fault for not healing good/fast enough. It's gotten to the point where i just ask the group to kick me if DRK wants to pretend he can dps/tank because I don't feel like wasting my time with that I have other shit to do.

Traditionally? Like Final Fantasy 2 tradition? Because if I recall your dark knight selfy fight was a hard to win battle, Dark knight was tanky in it's first appearance :)

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Originally Posted by File2ish

Hi.

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Originally Posted by Taaku

Hi.

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Here's the fun thing now lol.
Just did a NR run with Me, DRK, MCH and a SMN.
Best run I had since I played 3.0 and best run I had in a long time.
DRK did pretty much smallish pulls, which allowed me to pop some DPS here and there.
RNG on my side so giving some good cards to the DPS, me and the tank.
I had so much fun. Very happy. I finally had a good damn DRK.
I'm about sick of these pulls that are so huge that strains me and the DPS.
So whattaknow, there are some really good ones out there.
The Mob's HP and hits are super hard so small pulls are better in this expac imo.
Allowing every to get a DPS in and no wipes makes it a smooth dungeon. ;; I wish he was on my server LOL.

the only problem I've had on healing as a scholar is people over pulling because they think they are speed running ready with their white quest gear, this isn't a dark knight problem its a "I think I'm a super tank problem" and it happens on all 3 jobs.

I'd rather see classic jobs have slight changes or be adjusted to fit into XIV's battle system than have them shove in a bunch of stuff with no FF history. Why do you think no one gave 2 craps about the original classes.

I use 2 strength pieces rest vitality.

OP must be having dumb luck to be getting the bad DRK tanks I also put all my bonus attribute points into vitality and I do pop cds.


we do need some boosts in some of the ability's not to mention living dead is a joke just like what mercy stroke is.

Also the fact that they haven't changed how parry works just removed it from str and dex and made it more rng with a lower turn out.


DRK is a tank people its staying that way get used to it. And I love it.

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Originally Posted by CYoung187

If you judge all jobs by the people that are bad at them, then they are all mistakes.

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Oh man, this is some fortune-cookie shit right here.

You're wrong OP.

1) Dark Knight was only "DPS" in FFXI. In FFIV and all other FF games that it appears, it's a "tank" job.
2) Bad tanks are bad tanks. It doesn't matter which tank job they choose.

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Originally Posted by Khyan

FFIV Cecil is the best "tank" in the game, even as DRK. I don't see why DRK shouldn't be a tank.

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well from what I have heard from a few people, DRK shouldn't be a tank because it wasn't a tank in FF11, but I wanted DRK to be a tank before i even knew about the expansion just made more sense to me that way

I'm running with my Paladin in almost full str accesoirs (one ring is vit) and there was not yet any content in which i thought of it as inappropriate (that said I'm talking about after reaching lvl 60 and having full ilvl170/180 armor).


The only time i was using my full vit (again besides one ring) was in Alexander and that was only because all of us were new and when asking if the healers would prefer vit acc instead of str acc they said yes (we failed the fight, the bosses were still at over 10% when they self destructed and str acc would not have changed the outcome this much but sometimes it helps^^)

That said i would assume after reaching ilvl170 and higher i think there is no real reason to go vit as Long as you are not synched and your healer is good equiped (still Keep the vit acc just in case^^)

For These who say "we are tanks, we Need def,...." I would actually love that if there was an uefull stat for that, parry is utter garbage (and i really tried to see sometthing good in that stat) especially for Paladins and vit is just not that usefull after some time (sure not useless and if I would have to choose vit or parry it would always be vit, but... for known content it is just not really needed to the degree in which it is aqcuirable)
It's a shame they nerfed str as that at least gave some increased block and parry rates which made str actually quite defensive but sadly they took that away and gave nothing of equivalent value...

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

We wouldn't have gotten DRK at all in HW if it was supposed to be a DPS.
We were getting 1 healer, 1 tank, 1 dps... for the dps, a gun job was far more requested than another melee dps. Meaning no room for a DRK as dps.

Bad players does not mean SE's decision to make DRK a tank was bad.

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Actully MCH was supposed to be Chemist and a healer, but it didn't work out as they planned so it was split into AST (Healing) and MCH (Gun User)