Please help me understand why i should continue to play a repeat of 2.0?

Cirgellon FFXI had all of that upon release almost nothing was given out in certain periods like it is here. If a new job came out they had tons of skills and abilities from start. Like Vanfrano said you are just falling into Yoshi Ps logic of presenting you stuff.

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Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok

Cirgellon are you trying to be smart now? FFXI had all of that upon release almost nothing was given out in certain periods like it is here. If a new job came out they had tons of skills and abilities from start. Like Vanfrano said you are just falling into Yoshi Ps logic of presenting you stuff.

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The new jobs here have a ton of skills too. I filled up 3 skill bars. 5hat game did add content. What are you talking about?

Why don't you just play FFXI then?
( •᷄ὤ•᷅)

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Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok

Cirgellon FFXI had all of that upon release almost nothing was given out in certain periods like it is here. If a new job came out they had tons of skills and abilities from start. Like Vanfrano said you are just falling into Yoshi Ps logic of presenting you stuff.

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You must've played a different FFXI .. When FFXI came out, the game was terrible (in fact, they almost gave up on it). Of course, that was the Japanese release, which came around a year before the US release, and the US release included Zilart.

Summoner (which wasn't in from the start, but got added prior to Zilart's release) only had Carbuncle as summon until Zilart came out.

Ninja was meant to be DPS, samurai was meant to be tank, that worked out well.

There were also plenty free content updates that were not expansions.

And there are plenty more examples that show FFXI was nowhere near perfect, as long as you take of those rose tinted glasses.

And of course, FFXI was a clone of EverQuest.


I enjoyed FFXI, in fact, I played since US release and only very recently closed my subscription. I enjoy FFXIV more though. (I also enjoyed EQ and DAoC, and heck, even WoW at times)


In the end though, you've already decided you don't like the game and no one is going to convince you otherwise.

If you are not happy playing the game... Just quit the game for a while and come back later when you feel comfortable.

I left the game when SE screw around with this Myth tome bullsh*t and when I came back there's still the poetic tome bullsh*t. after all that grinding I still only have 1 job fully geared in poetic gears and now they are 100% useless. the way LAW tomes are obtained is much much more acceptable imo... and Alexander loot are only slightly better (ilvl 190 vs ilvl 180 (upgraded LAW)

As a previous FFXI player, I cannot bring myself to go back to that game.

It was truely too time consuming to get things done there.
No matter if it was just waiting for group in town, or gathering enough people to actually do something.
And this is coming from a person that led a low man Dynamis group for years when the level cap was 75 - we still needed a minimum 6 people to do any zone somewhat efficiently and had to gather 13 people for Shadow NMs in glacier and 17 people for animated shield. Not to mention the 3 day downtime between each dynamis runs. Here, going through DF and PF makes it much easier.
Nor was it that "fun" competing for land kings hours per day or farming sky/sea drops vs RMT. And having to work through the tier system of sky/sea/einherjar sometimes takes weeks to get to the top level.
I enjoy the casual pace of FFXIV, but it is not for you, you don't have to stay.

FFXI is still supported for people like you, I'm sure it is a wonderful game that I spent 10 years on, but I just can't bring myself back to it with the latest Seekers expansion.
FFXIV should not be a FFXI clone as it is marketed as a more casual game.

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Originally Posted by Millerna

Ninja was meant to be DPS, samurai was meant to be tank, that worked out well.

I enjoyed FFXI, in fact, I played since US release and only very recently closed my subscription.

In the end though, you've already decided you don't like the game and no one is going to convince you otherwise.

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I want my Samurai back... I left FF11 the day I got my Black Belt. FF11 was too much of a grind back then and all that Guild point system.

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Originally Posted by Furiea

I want my Samurai back... I left FF11 the day I got my Black Belt. FF11 was too much of a grind back then and all that Guild point system.

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I loved my samurai, but I miss dancer the most :)

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Originally Posted by Chihaya

As a previous FFXI player, I cannot bring myself to go back to that game.

It was truely too time consuming to get things done there.
No matter if it was just waiting for group in town, or gathering enough people to actually do something.
And this is coming from a person that led a low man Dynamis group for years when the level cap was 75

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yea. while it does consume too much time I do miss the "adventure" element of FF11 and now we just ride/fly over everything. (which I am not complaining)
really hoping for bigger raid content that requires teamwork similar to Step of Faith.

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Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok

OP stuff...

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You should basically be asking yourself why should you play ANY MMO then.



It's end game grind, no matter where you go. Some use different methods but the general activity is fundamentally the same. No one wants to discuss alternative because for some strange reason everyone correlates -time sink-, -grind- and the gear obtained by such as -prestige- and -skillfulness-

So we dont bother asking for a different way because most players are extremely narrowminded and generally lack foresight to see how proposals could be better. SE also has the tendency to get set in routine, so I wouldn't expect it to change even if there was an overwhelming majority asking for something different.

I can't give you a reason why you should stay. Either the game is fun for you or it isn't. If it isn't you should probably leave.

Which is the only time I will come anywhere close to the ignorance of most gamer fanchilds who will scream at you "IF YOU DONT LIKE IT GTFO!"

Fun is a very important factor.

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Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok

FFXI stuff.

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you do know Rise of the Ziltar was an expansion not the base game right?

It was out in jp for awhile we only got it when it got its first expansion.

Also your using a defense that ffxi had more job ability's? LOL at most any class only had 5 and then merit came out that just gave 2 3 extra ones im not even going to argue with abesea level 99 new stuff since that pretty much killed it.

Its not worth continuing this thread st this point since it seams youv made your decision that this game is bad.

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Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok

SirDarts: You mean SMN isnt an exact copy of Warlock from WoW? This whole accepting a quest opening map and seeing where it is right away isnt something from WoW? The mechanics of the abilities are the simplicity of attributes what stats gear give etc?
The whole please slay 5 mobs of this please slay 3 mobs of that on a constant repeat?

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Actually it isn't, EQ2 had a quest tracker before wow, although only a month or two older then WoW, and that's older then WoW and I am sure Lineage 2 had it before both. Probably another MMORPG older that had it, good games borrow good ideas.

This doesn't seem like the right game for you, OP. Or genre. I suggest putting the game down and finding something else to play. There are a lot of other games out there. Personally, I enjoy this game. That is why I play it. If I wanted to play a totally different game every expansion, I would put the game down and buy a different game every time an expansion came out. This game caters to its playerbase. Its playerbase bought the game with certain expectations. Changing those completely is silly, counter-productive, and not conducive to keeping their fans who actually enjoy the mechanics and format.

I loved XI, but if you think XI didn't have fetch quests, you're deluded.

"Bring me lizard eggs." "Bring me bat wings." Bring me 10,000 carp." "Bring me three drops from three different mobs to unlock subjobs." "Bring me three drops from three NMs, and I'll give you this MNK belt." "Bring me a testimony for your job and I'll let you beat me up so you can level to 75".

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Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok

Reinha when Zilart and cop came out:
1. I didnt even have one 75 job was still working on that.

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Because leveling in FFXI was a massive chore. There was absolutely nothing compelling about staying in one place for hours at a time and killing the same model crab/beetle/dhalmel/colibri over and over again. It speaks volumes that even FFXI doesn't do FFXI-style leveling any more.

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Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok

3. Storyline was 10/10

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I'll agree with this, but keep in mind that most of the expansions only had a fraction of that story available when they first launched. Wings of the Goddess took a full three years to get to its conclusion. Certainly none of them had anywhere near the volume of story that Heavensward had on release.

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Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok

4. Questing in FFXI you where not someones fetchboy as it is in FFXIV.

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This is a case of selective memory. I made a new character on FFXI in the month before Heavensward and played through Windurst, RotZ, CoP, ToAU, and WotG's storylines. There were many, many times when you had to go play fetch, usually involving something from the other side of Vana'diel.

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Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok

5. Where many jobs in FFXI you couldnt have had all of them maxed out was almost impossible and difficult.

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So... exactly the same as FFXIV?

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Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok

6. Its an MMORPG stuff shouldnt be soloed the point is finding people that are willing to help you. I understand nothing like FFXI where 6 players must do stuff but atleast 2 or 3 people OUTSIDE of duty finder!

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"There's nothing to do that requires 2-3 people except for the things that require 2-3 people that I've arbitrarily decided don't count!"

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Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok

7. I laugh at your silly 5 new skills for each job when FFXI overwhelmed you with skills and jobs im used to a BLM having 40+ spells not 20.

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How many of those 40+ spells did you ever use? At 75, how often did you use any of the tier I-III single target or tier I-II aoe nukes? Or any tier IV nukes except ice and thunder? Blind? Bind? Blaze/Ice/Shock Spikes? Tier I ancient magic?

Or, for a more reasonable comparison, since you mentioned new skills, let's see how many spells black mage got going from level 75 to 85, which was the first ten level increase that NA players experienced: Stone V, Water V, Stoneja, Aero V, Aspir II, Waterja, Break. That's seven, and only because it was a caster. Most jobs got a single ability at level 77, and that's it.

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Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok

Beleive me I can go on.

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You do realize you can still play FFXI if that's what you're looking for in an MMO, right?

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Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok

This whole accepting a quest opening map and seeing where it is right away isnt something from WoW?

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1.0 had it also
And nobody claimed 1.0 as a WoW clone, if i remember it right

http://img.bhs4.com/81/3/813d9e17785...a637_large.jpg

Like you can see in this journal window of a quest, there is a map button in the left lower corner that open up a map with the destination for the actual step of the quest

I have to agree with the majority here, the challenge in XI was the time spent waiting. My first MMO was XI, from UK release until about a year before Adoulin released, and I still have very fond memories of meeting new friends and going on adventures with them, enjoying the story. However I also remember the frustrations, waiting in jeuno for a exp party to try and get a level before the weekend was over, failing to setup my own parties because members wouldn't go without a BLM (pre-ToAU) or a RDM/BRD (port-ToAU).
Even trying to do missions, I had fun when they actually underway but the preparation and travel dwarfed the time spent fighting. Some content took some thought but a lot just boiled down to a zerg or manaburn.
Endgame I found to be the biggest chore, SO much waiting around and you could spend weeks without getting anything out of it, and the fights were not all that satisfying.

This waiting pattern was the same through each expansion, and yet I still loved that game but given the choice I'd stay with XIV. The pattern of collecting tomes maybe th same but the content changes, I get to enjoy it in a long or as short as a play session as I choose. Overcoming content gives me great satisfaction, and i have a tangable means to see my progress.

Sorry about formatting, on my mobile.

Certainly, from the looks of this thread I wouldn't mind if they incorporated quite a few elements from FF11. I think the changes would be generally well received.

I never have seen the point of getting top level within a day or two, then sitting around twiddling your thumbs bored as crap for the next month or two. I'm still doing my MSQ and leveling up, and the story is just now getting really interesting.

I've seen a few replies that are you are not level 60 on all jobs so you still have alot to do. Here is the thing, I shouldnt feel i need to level all jobs to 60 just because I need something to do. I should feel I can progress on my 2-3 main classes i wish to play without feeling like ohh I'm pleasing your expectations of feeling like levling all jobs to level 60 is something to do when i dont even want to play 6 of these jobs. Remember what I said about this game promotes lazyness? I will just do Ravanna ex and bismarck ex when i get better gears and when other stuff gets nerfed with echo etc. You know why? Because I know its gonna happen. I remember when i devoted time to learn T1-T4 on our Dark Light gears I really thought ok Yoshi P can get a pass now he has something that I feel is right then echo game and everything else that made it not enjoyable.

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Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok

I've seen a few replies that are you are not level 60 on all jobs so you still have alot to do. Here is the thing, I shouldnt feel i need to level all jobs to 60 just because I need something to do. I should feel I can progress on my 2-3 main classes i wish to play without feeling like ohh I'm pleasing your expectations of feeling like levling all jobs to level 60 is something to do when i dont even want to play 6 of these jobs. Remember what I said about this game promotes lazyness? I will just do Ravanna ex and bismarck ex when i

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Then find a new game. This one clearly isn't for you. This isn't the only video game on the market and video games are something you choose to do with your free time. If you aren't enjoying them, you are doing it wrong. They will never be able to please everyone with a single game. Period.

You claim there is nothing to do and then point out that you just don't like the other stufff when you are proven wrong. What exactly do you want here? They aren't going to completely rewrite the game just because you don't like it. Many of us love it. There is a reason it's far more successful than FFXI ever was...

Spare me the "you know you can turn echo off" There shouldnt have been an echo at all. What is the point of trying to learn patterns and trying to understand fights if its gonna be cakewalk later with handouts? I swear everytime I explain this I feel like people really enjoy free handouts and they are happy with getting everything for free with less effort of even bothering.
FFXIV killed anything that would make you feel you earned your levels gears acheivements and progress in general because 3 months later things will get nerfed tons of gears are replaced due to how fast people can level and beat content so the cycle repeats itself. Whats the point of doing any of this when i KNOW its gonna get nerfed in 2 months. So please tell me what difference it will make if I did something now or two months later?
I didn't experience any of this in FFXI ofcourse chains of promathia got nerfed ABIT not alot until Abyssea came and ruined it.

Kind of silly to think people wouldn't like free handouts, no shit people like handouts it's less effort, it's biology to want stuff for little effort. However handouts do not help game, I agree that things should not be made easier just because an expansion came out. Challenge keeps the game fun. Handouts do not. Still I like handouts :P

Truth be told alot of the changes and updates to the game, and the things OP are complaining about brought 8 of my friends back to the game.....(horray for not being alone anymore!)

Cirgellon thats the thing what part of everything I've said so far just wont you get? Game is too easy and by easy it doesnt mean i have to be level 60 everything like thats a silly acheivement. I had all jobs at 99 except for ranger when abyssea came out I still only played 4 jobs total so the levling part is just having something to do because you ran out of things to do that are meant for your main jobs. Its not even about not like doing stuff its about I refuse to devote time to something that will be unrewarding and punishing me for learning something right now when 2 months later it will be way easier than the time i spent learning it now. How do you honestly approve of this and think this is OK is beyond my mind? Its pretty much saying I can play 2hs a day to catch up with what you do playing 4-6h a day how fair is that? Some people have FFXIV as a hobby so stop with the go outside do something just because it doesnt fit your world.

This is gonna sound harsh but if someone wants to spend more time on FFXIV than another person he/she should be rewarded and not punished just because someone else got other stuff to do with their life.
I have FFXIV as a hobby sometimes i can play 5h a day sometimes only 2h a day I would never complain over someone who plays more than me and acheives more than me. Instead I want to think hey i wan't to grind and acheive the same thing and not have the mindstate ha what a looser that plays this for 5h a day I'm gonna get the same stuff as him 1month later for half the effort. Where in your mind is this a fair a picture?

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Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok

Cirgellon thats the thing what part of everything I've said so far just wont you get? Game is too easy and by easy it doesnt mean i have to be level 60 everything like thats a silly acheivement. I had all jobs at 99 except for ranger when abyssea came out I still only played 4 jobs total so the levling part is just having something to do because you ran out of things to do that are meant for your main jobs. Its not even about not like doing stuff its about I refuse to devote time to something that will be unrewarding and punishing me for learning something right now when 2 months later it will be way easier than the time i spent learning it now. How do you honestly

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But you don't like your hobby. You also refuse to change said hobby. I'm pointint out how silly you are making yourself look...

Stop worrying about others and find something you enjoy...

If Skizz didn't like the game he'd not care enough to be here now. People complain about things they like, and he isn't entirely wrong.

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Originally Posted by Meya

If Skizz didn't like the game he'd not care enough to be here now. People complain about things they like, and he isn't entirely wrong.

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I don't claim that the game I like is doing everything wrong. Maybe I'm not a person?

Did you even read his posts? I've never needed someone to convince me to keep playing a game I like...

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Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok

This is gonna sound harsh but if someone wants to spend more time on FFXIV than another person he/she should be rewarded and not punished just because someone else got other stuff to do with their life.
I have FFXIV as a hobby sometimes i can play 5h a day sometimes only 2h a day I would never complain over someone who plays more than me and acheives more than me. Instead I want to think hey i wan't to grind and acheive the same thing and not have the mindstate ha what a looser that plays this for 5h a day I'm gonna get the same stuff as him 1month later for half the effort. Where in your mind is this a fair a picture?

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Possibly because there's more to life than games and FFXIV? Why segregate players months down the line because those said players have a wife/husband, kids, bills, work, and all that other stuff all for the sole purpose to make players who spend their every waking moment in this game reign over the other side. That makes little to no sense, even Yoshi-P didn't and doesn't want this. I'm sorry but this is sounding alot like a sense of entitlement and you should probably get up, go outside and do something with your life a bit...

So I'm silly for having an opinion? what happened to this community...

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Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok

So I'm silly for having an opinion? what happened to this community...

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You're not silly for having an opinion. I'm merely stating its unfair to divide the community that you're saying what happened to. Because if the chance to allow players who don't have the time you do to even scratch the surface to catch up to the rest who DO have the time to play all day, then you'd be doing just that, dividing the community.

As of now you're probably thinking that I'm "attacking" you, which in truth I'm not. I'm merely saying that if you care for the community you speak of, then why divide it?

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Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok

So I'm silly for having an opinion? what happened to this community...

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you're silly because you're asking a casual game to be like FF11.

this game isn't trying to be FF11 it's trying to be ff14 and it's very successful.

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Originally Posted by Aqua_Amaiyo

You're not silly for having an opinion. I'm merely stating its unfair to divide the community that you're saying what happened to. Because if the chance to allow players who don't have the time you do to even scratch the surface to catch up to the rest who DO have the time to play all day, then you'd be doing just that, dividing the community.

As of now you're probably thinking that I'm "attacking" you, which in truth I'm not. I'm merely saying that if you care for the community you speak of, then why divide it?

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I disagree.

Is it wrong for someone with more dedication and time to commit to something to have better things attached? This is no different than the trophies and scores of any modern sport, attributed to their larger amount of practice. In the end it amounts to nothing because it all equalizes each time we do a level-cap raise and the process starts over. There's no reason to not play at your own pace, and there's absolutely no punishment mechanic for playing slow. In fact, the game has shown a clear track record for weakening encounters to allow those of lower skill or dedication levels to clear content easily for the same rewards. Even if there are greater rewards down the line, those who are a step behind the bleeding edge do not suffer for it. They are in fact encouraged to try.

The only divide is in how the community treats these facts, and that is irrelevant of the mechanics of the game.

Again if someone wants do spend alot of hours in this game its their decision to make and should they want to spend alot of time here they shouldnt get punished for it just because Yoshi P has a vision that casual friendly is the only way to go. That only means this franchise is strictly business and no heart cause its about reaching out to as many people as possible. I still beleive its thanks to the FFXI community who continued to pay for FFXIV and FFXI with the double subscriptions that you can have your amazing "vertical progress".
Did you remember when Yoshi P and SE pretty much begged people to pay to keep the game alive?
The people who knew about FFXIV from 1.0 who most likely where FFXI gamers and first timers still kept playing the game for the love and support for SE and their franchise. So somewhere along the path SE started biting the hand that was feeding them for business. This is my theory ofcourse but I don't think its far from the truth.

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Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok

The people who knew about FFXIV from 1.0 who most likely where FFXI gamers and first timers still kept playing the game for the love and support for SE and their franchise. So somewhere along the path SE started biting the hand that was feeding them for business. This is my theory ofcourse but I don't think its far from the truth.

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Keep in mind those same players voted for radical changes from the concepts of FFXI and FFXIV 1.0 as well. So I would not make any presumptions on what Legacy players chose or envisioned - speaking as a Legacy Player myself.

I will say that the system we have now merits an extended trial to see how it functions for people. It's my personal assessment that it is thus far VERY casual friendly, much more so than 2.0's attempt. I am thus far satisfied with what I have seen and as a result, and encouraged to return to raiding.

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Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok

So I'm silly for having an opinion? what happened to this community...

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I think it's silly that the title of the thread is "Please help me understand why i should continue to play a repeat of 2.0?"...and then people try to help you understand, and you're not having any of it.

You have no one but yourself to blame.

Keep paying your sub though, I doubt you have the will to unsub

It not a different game, the same concept of 2.0 continues on in the expansion.

The gameplay itself can be casual friendly when learning mechanics I don't think that is a problem. FFXI menu based stuff just gave you that old school FF feeling wich was great for its time. That still doesn't compensate the recycling of 2.0 pretty much with new skin. How we blindly accept what Yoshi P is giving us just because its FF and now i can glamour my life away cause everything is kawaii. Free handouts that pretty much teaches you to be lazy. This is still FF it needs to have a difficulty it needs to be rewarding it needs to feel like you are proud of what you accomplished as you enjoy storyline quests fates etc. I shouldnt be able to be to have 2 level 60 jobs at the moment at i179 where im working on my 3rd and 4th job because i play 5 mainjobs. The game shouldnt be this easy where i have completly nothing to do now but do alexander every week and sit and wait for next week. That is not OK to whom is this ok?