The biggest flaw of this ability design is that it requires you to resummon your pet. Perhaps it would be more usable if it didn't. It definately needs a rework.
Like someone said maybe it should silence your pet and then bump up the buff to 30%.
Thoughts on level 60 scholar ability?
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07-11-2015, 08:59 AMsharazisspecial
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07-11-2015, 07:28 PMfanserviceDissipation's problem is the fact it's not even a fair trade for using it atm. Gimping my HPS, utility, ability to multi-task heals for 30 seconds just for 3 aetherflow stacks, and have to resummon the fairy myself is a deal borne of inconceivable desperation. If it was ~50% extra healing done by physic and adloquium for the duration to offset the loss of the fairy's HPS (each embrace every 3 seconds is ~50% of physic's potency), and the aetherflow stacks being reimbursement for lost utility, and ability to multitask heals from the fairy for 30 seconds, it would be worthy of using.Quote:
Originally Posted by sharazisspecial
The goal isn't to make it a pure healing steroid, but instead, a change in healing style for a brief period by converting the fairy's healing, and utility into the SCH's bonus healing, and aetherflow stacks respectively. That would actually feel cool, and add some depth.
The fairy should either be silenced, or auto-resummoned instantly with no cost in MP at the end of the duration. The latter can even be made thematic, like temporary fusion with the fairy, or a fairy-based dreadwyrm trance. -
07-12-2015, 01:14 AMBlessedbythesun
Though out of character, the ability would have been more useful if it increased SCH DPS during times that healing isn't neccessary. As it stands now, it is pretty useless because, as stated, there isn't an even trade off by sacrificing a fairy. I wonder what the devs intended on the usage when they created the ability.
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07-12-2015, 03:10 AMGallus
Just wait for alexander savage, once nobody uses this ability there (including first clears and the like) I'm sure they will consider tunning it.
I too think it's completely useless at the moment xD. -
07-12-2015, 04:13 AMGhishlain
I've been thinking about this for a while. Without the ability to click off the buff / debuff so you can re-summon your fairy and the fact that healing potency does not affect abilities, this particular "buff" is beyond lackluster. Yes, if grants 3 stacks and boosted healing, but the loss of the fairy is too great of a price for a 30 second buff that basically weakens your overall healing and gives you 1800 potency cures in Lustrates. So, here are my suggestions for it. These suggestions are meant to be taken independently from each other though some can be combined for greater effect if deemed proper and balanced.
Reduce Dissipation's buff time to 10 seconds
The idea being that Dissipation is there as a "o snap" mechanism and if you hadn't fixed the party up in 10 seconds, chances are there's no way you'll be able to fix it. This also adds an element of risk and reward. Three Aetherflow stacks + 20% healing potency to try to mend the crap outta everyone at the risk of spending 2k+ MP + Swiftcast to get my fairy back afterwards. This also minimizes the amount of time a Scholar is locked out from using his/her fairy and get back to "normal healing" capacity. Let's be blunt, if you're in such dire need of healing and you can't fix it within ten seconds, chances are there will be no way to actually recover.
Have Dissipation affect Ability-type Heals
Getting Aetherflow charges back is all fine and dandy, but it sounds so counter intuitive to get Aetherflow stacks back when the 20% healing bonus does nothing for them. If you make Dissipation specifically affect both Scholar spells and abilities, this will at least make those Aetherflow stacks much more appealing.
Have Dissipation Refresh Specific Cooldowns
Cooldowns like Indomitably, Sacred Soil, Emergency Tactics, and Deployment Tactics all come to mind for this. The idea being "give the SCH the tools to patch everyone up quickly" or "prepare for the next onslaught" at the cost of locking out some of their healing potential in the process. You could reduce this to just Aetherflow abilities so that it may be possible to Indomitably >>>> Dissipation >>>> Indomitably for some potent one time healing and then have Sacred Soil on top for more mitigation.
Have Dissipation effect both Healing and Attack Magic Potency
Another risk-reward style adjustment. Make the SCH a higher damage dealer for X amount of time at the lose of their healing partner, thus temporarily shifting the focus from defense to offense. You know what they say, sometimes the best defense is a good offense. -
07-13-2015, 09:14 PMShikiseki
In Alexander, this very skill saved raids quite often although it's true that's only because there were enough mess-ups to begin with. I still think that the punishment for using it is a bit too harsh. I could live with it perfectly if the opposite fairy appears at the end of the effect. But calling it one of the most powerful nymian magicks when divine seal is better in every way. ... no wonder the nymians failed haha
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07-13-2015, 09:54 PMnexas506
WHAT IF...
your fairy's hp is dangerously low? if its gonna die anyway (meaning you'll just have to re-summon it again) why not use it then? I know, I know, its pretty situational, but the fairy's gonna die anyway, you might as well get something positive out if it.
edit:
fairy is about to die--> dissipate-->energy drain to get your mp back up-->summon.
you're not really losing anything if it's "already dead" -
07-13-2015, 10:07 PMShikisekiI actually did that in A2 where she somehow got cleaved. Blew my aetherflow stacks quickly and hit dissipation. STILL very niche and very punishing. Plus, it's not like you couldn't heal her, I mean she can even heal herself for free...Quote:
Originally Posted by nexas506
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07-13-2015, 10:17 PMCynfaelFrankly I'd rather just Swiftcast->Summon her than Dissipate for 3 Aetherflow stacks (at least two of which must be spent on ED without missing in order to recoup the resummoning cost) and wait the full 30 seconds for the buff to drop off.Quote:
Originally Posted by nexas506
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07-14-2015, 01:04 AMBlessedbythesun
Or... Use sustain when you see your fairy taking damage and blowing her heals on herself works.
I have no sympathy for SCH other SMN who refuse to use sustain. Shiva EX re-educated me about the use of that ability. -
07-14-2015, 01:18 AMBlessedbythesunIdeally, there should never be a situation where this skill should ever be relied on to save a party at Alexander's current difficulty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shikiseki
If it is, that would be a combination of several other ill reasons for the raid. SCH not choosing approriate times to use aetherflow abilities or over use, not relying on the other healer to pick up slack or other healer just failing, tanks with improper CD use and/or DPS taking unnecessary damage which diverts healers attention. -
07-14-2015, 04:37 AMShikisekiI guess you've been quite lucky with DF - Alexander then it seems ;P - Granted, there was no other way I could possibly save the tanks so this move is really a last resort for desperate measures to somehow save the raid. (it could be better though like most of the people already said in this thread) Even though it's very borderline useful as in such situations, it's better to just wipe most of the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blessedbythesun
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07-14-2015, 11:37 AMkeyburz
Here's another idea: what if it gave 6 stacks? And using dissipation was the only way to get stack size up to 6? Then you would have potentially 12 lustrates on demand
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07-14-2015, 11:38 AMTashim
One thing to consider, is that using Energy Drain twice will give you the mana to summon the pet, but you get three stacks of aetherflow.
Also, if you sacrifice, er, dissipate the fairy while whispering dawn is running, you wont really miss her heals as much. You'll still get 21s of regen, so there is really only 9 or 10 seconds without support from the pet.
With Fey Illumination, then whispering dawn, then dissipate, Adlo is far more potent. I've had well over 5k crits with it (which is a 10k galvanize).
In Alexander, since accuracy requirements are so low, you wont miss with energy drain, so its a fairly safe bet to eat the fairy and burn a few energy drains to get a net gain of mana out of it. However in Ravana, (and even some of the L60 dungeons), accuracy is a concern, as Energy Drain can miss. -
07-14-2015, 04:48 PMFricca
Not sure why people are hating on this skill... You can pop all your pet's cooldown then dissipate it. You get all the buffs plus a full aetherflow stack and increased healing. I would take more stacks of aetherflow any day over 30 seconds of fairy healing (which is roughly 7 heals i think, even less if the fairy is on follow and is moving around). I use this skill regularly since I tend to dps often (3 times on ravana) and because of the fact that it gives you more room to use your healing utilities since you get more stacks/mp out of it.
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07-14-2015, 05:29 PMckc22Because it's bad for reasons that have been gone over again and again in this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fricca
You get a stack of aether ever 60s. Most of the time I'm burning my last charge on a ED to get it back on CD.
If you need extra aetherstacks you should get better at managing them, not use an ability that gimps you for 30s-1min.
Other corrections: 30s is about 10 embraces, and the aether stacks from dissipate do not grant mp.
Per the dev team - the main point is the stacks. If you have to use 2/3 of the stacks on energy drain to justify the hidden mana cost of the ability and the healing potency doesn't make up for the loss of eos/selene then how exactly is this an "emergency healing CD" in any way?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tashim
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07-14-2015, 05:46 PMMiyu20
I haven't read this entire thread but I read the first 3 pages and the last page.
I found one good use for it that I never really thought of until I really needed it. When one dies due to a tank not picking up aggro or you make a mistake somehow and die. You are revived. If you're lucky enough to revive with an aetherflow stack and have Swiftcast up as well, Use Aetherflow to get back enough Mana to swiftcast your fairy and be energy draining off GCD of summoning your fairy. Use Energy Drains or Lustrates depending on how well your Secondary healer is doing keeping up with heals, and then after you do this, heals should be more managable for the other healer if he's semi-competent.
Blow your Fairy CDs (I'm hoping you would have picked Eos over Selene for this reason) or at least Rouse + Whispering Dawn as if the current situation is really shaky, you might not have enough time to wait for fairy to use all of her CDs, Then Dissipate for another three stacks and use 1 more for around 4 Energy Drains and your MP Pool by this should be around 5-6k and your Aetherflow will be about half to 3/4s on its way to another use and then your MP will be back. This had to be done during an A4 run as I was hit with three lasers from Carnage.
Dissipation might not be intuitive but I find it is the best way to recover your mana, at post 170 levels my mana went from 0 being revived using Aetherflow and 6 stacks of Energy Drain from the first Aetherflow through the 3 stacks Dissipation gives you to over 8k Mana. This is the strength of Dissipation and I don't know if I've seen any other Scholar use it like this. Is there not anyone else who has seen this use for Dissipation? -
07-14-2015, 05:50 PMGallus
Yep, it's terrible, and I honestly think (and hope) it's going to be reworked sooner or later. I was thinking, that it would be useful maybe when you died, and are rezzed...you need mana fast...but nope, because you need to explicitly summon your fairy and kill it xD.
Even if your party is taking ridiculous amounts of AOE damage, it won't matter, because you can only indomitability twice every minute and I can't think of a single fight that forces a SCH to say burn 4-5 lustrates in 20 seconds other than that one battle in specific you are not yet familiar with. But who on earth would sacrifice their fairy on a savage turn they are not familiar with lol now that MP management is more a thing than ever? I have 12k mana and an Adloquium costs 1k+ mana (so my total mana is roughly 12 adloquiums). Back in T13 at level 50, I'd have around 5400 mana and an adloquium would cost around 300 mana (so around 18 adloquiums...basically, in 3.0, 50% less mana and 50% less mana regeneration, so locking your fairy for the next 30 seconds isn't very bright imo, even more so when the trade off is insultingly poor -20% bugged more healing with unaffected indomitability and lustrate and 3 stacks of aetherflow). -
07-14-2015, 05:54 PMDreamWeaver
@Miyu20
I'm not a Scholar Main, so I'm not really clear how much MP you regain from Energy Drain at LV 60, and also unclear how much MP is needed to summon the fairy.
But... unless I'm missing something, what you're doing is basically :
1) Revived, use Aetherflow + ED to get enough mp to summon fairy.
2) Pop Fairy CD
3) Eat Fairy to get Aetherflow to.......ED to get back MP????
Why not just try your best to survive with whatever MP you have after your first Aetherflow?
What's the reasoning behind using the MP you recovered to summon your fairy, then eating it, to get Aetherflow to....recover MP?
Is the MP recovered from 3 EDs alot more compared to the MP required to summon a fairy? -
07-14-2015, 05:59 PMGallusNope, if I remember well you get around 900 MP with one energy drain. Fairy costs 1700+ mana. Best scenario is you land 3 energy drains, kill your own fairy and gain a total of 900 mana while locking out the fairy for the next 30 seconds, not a very good idea imo (in a scenario btw where that fairy is going to be invaluable because regardless your weakness status and your low mana too, she's still going to spam embraces nonstop).Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamWeaver
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07-14-2015, 06:00 PMMiyu20
Dissipation is not meant to be for every raid use. Emergency situations with Mana are the only time I can justify or when all your fairy cooldowns are blown and you still need more heals (as everything is on CD), this skill is actually better than you might think. Before we just had to sit there and hope the secondary healer can handle everything as we have no more fairy CDs or aetherflows but now, we can Dissipate + Emergency Tactics + Succor and not only have aetherflow stacks back but in the time it takes for Dissipate to be over, some Fairy CDs will be back (atleast Whispering Dawn) and while dissipated, we will have stronger adloqiums and Succor shields.
It's an emergency skill in that if you fuck up with managing your aetherflow stacks and/or Mana (which happens to the best of Scholars) you can make up for that mistake without wiping the party. -
07-14-2015, 06:07 PMckc22You get about 900 mana IF it hits. Meaning you need 2 of them to hit just to justify the 1800 mana cost of summoning your fairy.Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamWeaver
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07-14-2015, 06:07 PMMiyu20Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamWeaver
I get way more than 900 MP for Cleric Stance Energy Draining. You also receive more MP. Using 3 Energy drains back to back also increases the MP regenerated. You receive more than what you used to summon fairy.
And the reason you don't try and survive using that mana is because you can't. With that amount of MP, you don't even have enough mana to do a Succor let alone an Adloqium. You are not surviving just Physick spamming unless DPS suddenly gets good and kills the monsters.\
If it hits? Do you mean Energy Drain? I've never had Energy Drain miss ever. Do you all Energy Drain in Cleric Stance like you should?Quote:
Originally Posted by ckc22
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07-14-2015, 06:12 PMTranquil
Energy Drain is 884 MP at level 60, regardless of the amount of damage you deal. Only the self-healing component scales with your damage dealt.
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07-14-2015, 06:12 PMDreamWeaverI'm sorry, but unless for some reason they changed it in HeavensWard, the MP gained from ED is same whether you're in CS or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miyu20
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07-14-2015, 06:14 PMckc22Reading this is getting fucking exhausting. The whole "you just don't know how to use it" argument is tiring and dismissive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miyu20
We get it. It's supposed to be an emergency CD. However - it's not a very good one at all. It leaves you worse off than when the emergency began. I imagine the only positive opinions of it come from schs who can't manage their aetherflow stacks in the first place. Also I'm not sure why you'd be just sitting there if you have MP... you do know you have heals that don't require aether? -
07-14-2015, 06:16 PMRawrz
A 20% boost in healing is actually a 40% boost, in a sense, to galvanized based skills. I would like to see adlo/succor get a mana cost reduction during the buff or at the end of the buff a free/reduced summon.
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07-14-2015, 06:16 PMckc22Um. No you don't because it restores % of your Max MP. You do not get more for doing it in Cleric Stance. Energy Drain applies damage on hit, meaning it has an accuracy check.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miyu20
Please... if you don't know what you're talking about don't contribute erroneous information. -
07-14-2015, 06:32 PMdragoeleteactually if it works like most other mp Regen skills (siphon blade, riot blade, assize, and aetherflow) it Regens based on a percentage of your max MP but either way it doesn't increase in cleric stance. (unless you count the self heal as an increase)Quote:
Originally Posted by ckc22
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07-14-2015, 06:32 PMMiyu20
Thank you Tranquil and Dreamweaver. I did not know this. So I guess I've been getting lucky with all of my Energy Drains hitting or I am meeting accuracy cap for The Manipulator using Full Law Gear and a 160 Weapon.
Fascinating.
And Ckc22, I'm not purposefully contributing erroneous information. Your opinion would have a lot more merit if you managed to express it in a nicer way (I know I came off badly saying "You guys just don't know how to use it, Honestly." I'll edit that. I was wrong to say it like that.
As a healer sometimes you need to heal instantly as people take extraneous damage and they need to be topped off or brought to safe HP levels immediately or people will die. Currently there is no instant cast Healing spell that does not require aetherflow stacks.
I don't see how it is bad to heal this way...Please stop responding. I just want you to know your derision and your opinion is well established over 6 pages of thread so unless you have something extra to add, you don't have to deride other people and what they have to say.
Please don't mistake the above as aggressive. I'm just defending my thesis.
@Tranquil and Dreamweaver
If the above is true, why would you sacrifice acc for other stats if energy drain will miss and not replenish your mp?
@Dragolete
Yes, that must explain why I can see my MP going up more. ^_^ Thank you for reiterating that. -
07-14-2015, 06:35 PMGallus
Misses rarely happen on alex NM, but they do happen in Ravana EX.
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07-14-2015, 06:36 PMDreamWeaver
@Miyu20,
I'm a WHM main, I do play Scholar, but not to the extent of getting myself Accuracy melded Accessories :).
But when I do play Scholar, the reason I use ED is not to recover MP, it is because my Aetherflow CD is almost ready, and I still have leftover stacks, so I'll just ED everything away and Aetherflow :D.
You'll probably get a better answer from more experienced Scholars tho. -
07-14-2015, 06:41 PMckc22Quote:
Originally Posted by dragoelete
Either way it certainly doesn't scale with damage or repetitive use...
Edit: nevermind I was right the first time It's by level. -
07-14-2015, 06:44 PMckc22Your opinion would have a lot more merit if it had any factual credit to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miyu20
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07-14-2015, 06:46 PMGallusNo, this is wrong, ED doesn't return MP based on your total MP, it just returns a MP fixed value which is attached to your level. If it returned MP based on your total MP, piety would increase the amount given by ED, and it doesn't. It was 266 MP return at level 50 (regardless you had 4k mana or 6k mana) and 900 something (don't remember the exact number) at level 60.Quote:
Originally Posted by dragoelete
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07-14-2015, 06:49 PMMiyu20
Yes! This is the key to being a good Scholar with Aetherflow Management! ^_^
When you are focusing on Pure healing as a Scholar which makes duties in Duty Finder much easier, sometimes standing around to recover your mana from mana ticks is necessary and good healers as you know look over at their secondary healers MP pool and adjust their healing accordingly.
If you have three Stacks though and you are over 80% MP, I hope you don't use your Energy Drains as in my opinion keeping those stacks would be safer than using them for the sake of 100% mana. I'm sure you don't though.
Anyways, back to the topic of Dissipation...
I've found before Deployment Tactics, as you all know, it increases your shield almost 2x or more and this alone makes Dissipation worth it when there is a huge Super attack incoming that you cannot virus. (Thinking Bex's Ultimate Attack)
@ckc22 I might just be excited at seeing my MP bar go up as I'm in a panic from having almost no MP and can't use Succor for example so that when I energy drain spam, it seems like it goes up more everytime when in actuality, it doesn't.
I have to log in now and recheck how much MP energy drain regains on the dummy and get back to you as this argument is going on for way too long. -
07-14-2015, 06:53 PMFriccaPretty obvious using dissipate doesnt give you mp, I'm talking about Energy drain and the fact that you can use your stack over your mp to heal... And by no means am I having trouble managing my stacks, like I said I use Dissipation regularly. I guess it depends on your playstyle. Overall I would choose to use this regularly rather than save it cos like what many of the people here are saying, it's not necessarily an oh-shit skill. As for me, its more of a dps and a healing thing. The increased healing is good with Emergency Tactics and Deployment Tactics among others. It really depends on how you look at it and right now I'm not convinced 10-some fairy heals is an sch gimp specially when you can use this skill when something stupid long is casting (e.g. bloody fuller) and resummon your fairy shortly after. The only 'downside' for me with this skill would prolly be using swiftcast to cast my fairy back rather than keep it or use it on shadowflare, but even this is optional.. i could simply recast my fairy on some downtime.Quote:
Originally Posted by ckc22
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07-14-2015, 06:53 PMDreamWeaver
I really would advice against using Dissipation > Adlo > Deployment tactics, unless you're up against some ridiculously strong AoE while you're undergeared (Bahamut's Teraflare without LB3 as random example).
I mean, sure it looks cool when a primal's ultimate does 0 damage to your party, but you're wasting CDs that may end up being useful in the next few minutes, a WHM can easily patch up the entire team with just a single Medica II/Cure III :). -
07-14-2015, 06:54 PMTranquil
MP-recovery skills described above (Syphon Strike, Riot Blade, Energy Drain) are indeed level-tied rather than gear-tied. You would have variance in the returns between people of different races etc. (as they have different stats) - never the mind gearing differences - if the values were %-based (and thus gear/stat-based).
As I said before, Energy Drain at 60 is 884 MP. So is Syphon Strike. I didn't check Riot Blade with a level 60 PLD but I am assuming it to be 884 as well (as it used to be 266 at level 50, same as ED). Aetherflow and Assize are %-based and in a different category all together. -
07-14-2015, 06:55 PMDarkerOrangeSorry, but no. Bis Ex's big attack can be dealt with easily with a pre-succor, Sacred Soil and an Indom/Succor/Cure 3 from WHM. There is absolutely no need to murder your faerie and lose the free healing and buffs for 30 secs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miyu20
Dissipation in its current form is never worth using. It needs a big change.