Can we please rename Bismark EX to DPScheck EX?

I also find it funny that everyone is saying parsers are needed, seeing as we are throwing around titles, good players will be able to analyse how actions interact to work out their optimal rotation, they will also be able to work out who is holding them back without a parser simply by seeing animations and quick checks to see what buffs players have up. We have the information, parsers aren't needed, they just allow people to think less.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Most likly people are talking about pick up groups not set groups that have played together for a long time.

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Zumiiii, you changed! :O

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Most likly people are talking about pick up groups not set groups that have played together for a long time.

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In which case you get what you are given and don't really complain, offer advice, but if they don't take it feel free to kick. Every time content comes out we see the same posts "too many bad players" "need parser" etc yet they refuse to find a static, why?

The only difficulty in healing this fight is the 2nd phase imo - especially if you're dps aren't being careful with avoidable damage.

lol you people have such isolating demeaners.

As a Tank I have died to Bismark (Story mode) Because of stumble lol. Those crazy axe guys charged their knock off and threw me off the map >;3!!!!!!! It isn't always the dps fault LOL.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yz4Bukm6xcc

Ravana Ex is the new Titan extreme XD With better music :P

Same will continue into Alexander normal mode. Even if it is at the difficulty of WoD, there will still be players struggling. Just have to look at how many get carried with 24 person content. How many do nothing, or the very minimum, aka auto attacking. Whereas with Alex normal being 8 person, that ability to be carried by 20+ people will not be there and everyone will have to perform to certain standard.

To be honest I can see Bismark and Ravana extremes as being a good basis for the difficulty of Alexander with 8 people, personally looking forwards to it, and also savage version to really push me.

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Originally Posted by Delsus

I also find it funny that everyone is saying parsers are needed, seeing as we are throwing around titles, good players will be able to analyse how actions interact to work out their optimal rotation, they will also be able to work out who is holding them back without a parser simply by seeing animations and quick checks to see what buffs players have up. We have the information, parsers aren't needed, they just allow people to think less.

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Delsus pls send me your adress so i can send you my "thank you" beer. I'M NOT ALONE!! I'M NOT ALONE T_____T

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Originally Posted by Delsus

I also find it funny that everyone is saying parsers are needed, seeing as we are throwing around titles, good players will be able to analyse how actions interact to work out their optimal rotation, they will also be able to work out who is holding them back without a parser simply by seeing animations and quick checks to see what buffs players have up. We have the information, parsers aren't needed, they just allow people to think less.

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Yeah, as if I have the time to check everyone actions in a pug and tell them what they do wrong/what they need to do better. With a parser you see instantly who fuck up. You can tell them. Then they can try different things or ask for help.

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Originally Posted by Shamirah

With a parser you see instantly who fuck up. You can tell them.

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And then they can tell SE and you won't have an account anymore.

When you wave around parser results at other people, expect consequences.

Yeah Intaki you're the first reason posts like this exist.

First : you can't read. The subject was "parsers are needed" as in : need to be authorized/implemented directly into the game. So yeah, in this situation, no they can't report me.

Second : I don't use parsers, it does not prevent me from knowing who is just plain bad. It's just annoying to analyze everyone's actions to find the guilty one(s). With a authorized parser, it'll be much easier and people would actually be able to progress instead of staying baddies because SE is protecting them (funny thing is that in the end... SE is just making the game worse with this rule).

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Originally Posted by Intaki

And then they can tell SE and you won't have an account anymore.

When you wave around parser results at other people, expect consequences.

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If someone said "hey lan your dps is a bit low..." I'd be interested to see how it could improve etc. It's not something I would do myself, but I would take it constructively if ppl said it to me. I find dps optimizing quite a fun topic .

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

If someone said "hey lan your dps is a bit low..." I'd be interested to see how it could improve etc. It's not something I would do myself, but I would take it constructively if ppl said it to me. I find dps optimizing quite a fun topic .

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Yeah. Exactly, I'm not gonna kick someone just because he does bad dps. I'm just gonna tell him his dps/hps/damage taken is a bit low/too high and try to help him...

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Originally Posted by Shamirah

Yeah. Exactly, I'm not gonna kick someone just because he does bad dps. I'm just gonna tell him his dps/hps/damage taken is a bit low/too high and try to help him...

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Problem: You are the Minority of the Mass who would do that. THe Mass would just say "your dps sucks...yo lead kick him out". Thats why se will never permit parser like stuff in xiv. because its a plain plague..

I have a hard time with taking Cole seriously because a lot of his topics are complaints.
Then he proceeds to get very very frustrated and is in near tears. [Which he said so himself.]
in another topic and was about to quit.

Look, first of all...
If you're doing it in DF, then LOL.
Secondly, the stuff just came out. People need to stop expecting people to be good.
Make your own PF then, or find a static, find friends on who you can rely on.
A lot of people can even roll their rotations correctly right now. Takes time.

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Originally Posted by Shamirah

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Funny thing, it aint even a rule to not use it as SE can't stop you from using one. It's a rule to not parade around saying "I got a parser" to the world and forcing players to play at their maximum with non-constructive criticism.

Do you know what the above logic screams to me? DPS to the most effective means necessary because I want to zerg this as fast as possible then move on to the next fun run/content as fast as or get the heck out so I can find another DPS who will. I'm not saying that this mentality is everyone, I know for a fact that it's not but just because you or the next ten players won't do that doesn't mean you guys can justify for those who will.

So instead of blaming Intaki, how about you blame those who do parse then come around to players who just want to casually play and enjoy their time then go about calling them the worse scums of scums for not pulling high numbers before booting them if they even give them the privilege of being booted instead of harassing them till the end of the run.

I know a lot of players playing do use parsers regardless of warning but the ones who want to be parsed normally ask for this, if the player using such a thing chooses to talk about parsing knowing the risks of even openly putting it out there then it's like asking for it. Even though I say the above doesn't mean everyone is against parses either, some like yourself don't use it and don't see anything wrong with it however there are people who just want to play and enjoy the game, they aren't interested in competing in the top DPS epeen battle.

The door does swing both ways in the end, players do have some right to just want to get through things and have the maximum dps flowing through in their trials. The best bet in most situations is to drag capable friends with the same interest or a static along or make a PF with the agreement of whats expected of the party whether it be learning or strict strike rules and move on with it, those who agree will join and those who don't care for it just won't.

If you get people who agreed to strikes but die a lot then they have no right to complain about beating booted as long as they weren't trash talked before being removed, as it was warned in the message. I personally hate strikes and I'm agreeing with this much at least because it's just a fair act.

I killed bismarck ex with a DF group. We kept people who fucked up hard for a long time. We replaced the ones that really did not say anything/listen. It's possible (i had to write during the fights to tell people what to do during the differents weather effects tho.)

Also I don't agree at all Hypie. You say I'm a minority but that's false. I think the major problem are the people who are bad and don't want to change anything about the way they're playing and are too lazy to actually try harder. I've played an aweful lot of MMORPGs with dpsmeter. I've seen a lot of really bad dps. The amount of times I saw someone getting kicked instantly because his dps was too low must be around 1%. Most of the time, what I see is the following : the bad player takes offense instantly and insult/blame the others and ragequit.

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Originally Posted by Lillia

So instead of blaming Intaki, how about you blame those who do parse then come around to players who just want to casually play and enjoy their time then go about calling them the worse scums of scums for not pulling high numbers before booting them if they even give them the privilege of being booted instead of harassing them till the end of the run.

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You are delusional if you don't think that happens already. For one, with many jobs you can see if someone is herp derping. EG a BLM spamming blizzard 1 with full mana, or large gaps between casting with no movement requirements. MNKs not able to maintain GL1 never mind 3. Players already get kicked for performing terribly to a point content can't be cleared. Parsers will highlight to the players with facts on why they were kicked instead of them leaving thinking the other players are at fault. Hopefully giving some of them a wake up call that problem is on their side, not everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Shamirah

I killed bismarck ex with a DF group.

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Just one flaw there, you can't Duty Finder Bismark Ex.

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Originally Posted by Shamirah

Most of the time, what I see is the following : the bad player takes offense instantly and insult/blame the others and ragequit.

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Can't argue with that, as see the same thing. The ones who eat dirt the most, rage the most at everyone else. It's an Ego thing XD

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Originally Posted by Shamirah

I think the major problem are the people who are bad and don't want to change anything about the way they're playing and are too lazy to actually try harder.

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While this may be true, you can't go around expecting a casually-based game to adhere to your wants for better players. It's casual for a reason. Problem is - people don't realize their own capabilities (not even just lack of knowledge of the fight) nor put the effort into learning, essentially, wanting to be on the carry wagon. These people need to realize that while they have the luxury of running the content, it probably isn't in the best interest for themselves and not to get butt hurt when people criticize you (the problem with parsing for companies), especially when the criticism is constructive (though most is trollfest).

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Players already get kicked for performing terribly to a point content can't be cleared. Parsers will highlight to the players with facts on why they were kicked instead of them leaving thinking the other players are at fault. Hopefully giving some of them a wake up call that problem is on their side, not everyone else.

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Problem with this is, people never want to admit that THEY are they issue. Too many egos, too much pride. And why even when you say something like "Hey, can you please cast more heals than dpsing cause you are letting me die." or something along those lines, people jump off the deep end and start instantly insulting you. Was it bad advice? No. Was it troll? No. But the fact still remains that they took it that way for whatever reason and honestly, it's pretty pathetic. People just need to chill.

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Originally Posted by Shamirah

I killed bismarck ex with a DF group. We kept people who fucked up hard for a long time. We replaced the ones that really did not say anything/listen. It's possible (i had to write during the fights to tell people what to do during the differents weather effects tho.)

Also I don't agree at all Hypie. You say I'm a minority but that's false. I think the major problem are the people who are bad and don't want to change anything about the way they're playing and are too lazy to actually try harder. I've played an aweful lot of MMORPGs with dpsmeter. I've seen a lot of really bad dps. The amount of times I saw someone getting kicked instantly because his dps was too low must be around 1%. Most of the time, what I see is the following : the bad player takes offense instantly and insult/blame the others and ragequit.

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maybe i just have too deep scars from my wow time (vanilla player and saw the social downfall with parsers like recount).

My understanding is Yoshi-P has said of parsers, that if you use them, just don't talk about them in game. Don't smear the results in people's faces.

So if one were to hypothetically use a parser...
And they hypothetically spot a problem DPS who is holding the group back from progressing...
One could say something like "hey *dudesname*, we are going to regroup. Thanks for joining."
And then let the guy go.

Nothing reportable. No hurt feelings. No problem.

Why don't create a static? I think most of hardcore player have more than 1 lvl 60 job now, you can ask them to switch to all melee DPS. I saw lot of my friends doing that. With static their can do more faster, better understanding and less stress. I cant say DF only for casual player but most of casual players use that tool including myself, with this Bard that now are totally less needed in party.

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Originally Posted by Lillia

...like a bard ballading on a boss in the past for no reason...

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This always bugs me when it happens, and it has happened a few times out of the blue. A White Mage will pipe up, "Oh, Bard, I don't need Ballad." and then spam it when I don't stop. Completely ignoring the rest of the party, like say the other Bard that popped Foe's for the Black Mages in the party. I've had uppity White Mages like this in Crystal Tower and Coil. Before getting after a Bard about using a song, might want to check the party make-up to see if they actually do have a reason that isn't you.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

This always bugs me when it happens, and it has happened a few times out of the blue. A White Mage will pipe up, "Oh, Bard, I don't need Ballad." and then spam it when I don't stop. Completely ignoring the rest of the party, like say the other Bard that popped Foe's for the Black Mages in the party. I've had uppity White Mages like this in Crystal Tower and Coil. Before getting after a Bard about using a song, might want to check the party make-up to see if they actually do have a reason that isn't you.

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Yep I do too but I also have situations where a bard won't sing the song when needed though! but I decided on the better route of this.... Not reply, thus my reply is gone. xD

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Originally Posted by Akuryu

My understanding is Yoshi-P has said of parsers, that if you use them, just don't talk about them in game. Don't smear the results in people's faces.

So if one were to hypothetically use a parser...
And they hypothetically spot a problem DPS who is holding the group back from progressing...
One could say something like "hey *dudesname*, we are going to regroup. Thanks for joining."
And then let the guy go.

Nothing reportable. No hurt feelings. No problem.

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Well there is a problem tho : by not telling the guy that he's doing something bad he can't be better => he'll get in another group with less "nice" people.

This whole rule about parser is beyond stupid. If people can't take a freaking critic in a VIDEOGAME... they really have bigger problems than a low dps/hps/bad tanking...

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Originally Posted by Shamirah

Well there is a problem tho : by not telling the guy that he's doing something bad he can't be better => he'll get in another group with less "nice" people.

This whole rule about parser is beyond stupid. If people can't take a freaking critic in a VIDEOGAME... they really have bigger problems than a low dps/hps/bad tanking...

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Spoken like a true elitist. Can't let things go without being rude, rubbing the 'offending' person's face in the dirt. I can't help but wonder if this ever crossed a mind, "If you have nothing good to say, don't say anything at all."

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

Spoken like a true elitist. Can't let things go without being rude, rubbing the 'offending' person's face in the dirt. I can't help but wonder if this ever crossed a mind, "If you have nothing good to say, don't say anything at all."

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Seriously? So someone can't let someone else know that they're DPS is low and should be improved?

I agree with Shamirah, especially when we have heavy DPS check fights. That's not an elitist attitude.

If people want to use parsers as a tool of self-improvement more power to them. But don't get upset when it's pointed out that if you choose to use that tool to harass other players it will end badly for you.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

Spoken like a true elitist. Can't let things go without being rude, rubbing the 'offending' person's face in the dirt. I can't help but wonder if this ever crossed a mind, "If you have nothing good to say, don't say anything at all."

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Wait what ? So, this whole "elitist" insult is childish at best. But let's say I'll play this childish game : where was I rude ? What's rude about telling someone that "your dps is rather low for your gear/for your job/for the dps check, just letting you know. Maybe we could help you improve it ? Is there something you don't understand or need help with" ? Just tell me what's rude about that. Yeah, right.. nothing.

The only rude person in here is you with your stupid reply and the person who get all mad and childish.

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Originally Posted by Intaki

If people want to use parsers as a tool of self-improvement more power to them. But don't get upset when it's pointed out that if you choose to use that tool to harass other players it will end badly for you.

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When did we say we wanted to harass people ? Since when telling someone that they need to improve is harassing ? In which world do you live in ?

Do you guys filed a complaint when your teacher did not give you an A+ ? I mean he was clearly harassing you !

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Originally Posted by Intaki

If people want to use parsers as a tool of self-improvement more power to them. But don't get upset when it's pointed out that if you choose to use that tool to harass other players it will end badly for you.

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This thread aint even worth it anymore though, people will just fight with you of why they should be able to no matter what is said back then someone else will either agree or disagree with them then so on, so forth.

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Originally Posted by Shamirah

snip

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Look at you all ready to jump out and spread those claws on someone's face, busy lowering yourself down to the level of a 'rude person' and going out your way to call their reply stupid then call them rude and childish? Classy and mature all the way, just stay classy and make sure you show the same great sides to those you're willing to help.

do you think people are willing to admit they are bad dps without actual numbers in front of them? if they could then they would be better dps already, wouldn't they?

I could be a bad dps, I have no way of really knowing!

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Originally Posted by Lillia

Look at you all ready to jump out and spread those claws on someone's face, busy lowering yourself down to the level of a 'rude person' and going out your way to call their reply stupid then call them rude and childish? Classy and mature all the way, just stay classy and make sure you show the same great sides to those you're willing to help.

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My claws ? No claws out sorry. Calling someone "elitist" is childish. I can do something childish, does not mean I am childish. His or her reply was stupid indeed. I'm sorry but when you "insult" someone for no reason about something this someone did not do... it's a stupid insult, and in this case a stupid reply. And yeah, insulting is being rude. So yeah, he or she was rude. Nothing immature about stating the truth.

Also, I did not call him or her childish, I called the people who get all mad when you tell them one little critic (constructive one) childish.

Edit : I repeat : i only kick/votekick people that clearly fail all the mechanics after several tries even though I do my best at helping them (even writing during the fight so they know what to do). When there is a dps issue, I just look at what people are doing and spot the issues (like DRG not using their crit buff, Ninja not using the vulnerability debuff, etc). I don't use a parser when I play with randoms. I killed Bismarck Ex with randoms after a LOT of wipes and explaining I did to the failers and I wrote mid combat what they needed to do during the weathers. So yeah, if helping people and taking time to explain them things make me an elitist, then I'm proud of it.

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Originally Posted by Shamirah

My claws ? No claws out sorry. Calling someone "elitist" is childish. I can do something childish, does not mean I am childish. His or her reply was stupid indeed. I'm sorry but when you "insult" someone for no reason about something this someone did not do... it's a stupid insult, and in this case a stupid reply. And yeah, insulting is being rude. So yeah, he or she was rude. Nothing immature about stating the truth.

Also, I did not call him or her childish, I called the people who get all mad when you tell them one little critic (constructive one) childish.

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Andddd being mature would just be shrugging it off like an adult, letting it go. if they are so rude then are they really worth your time? I think not, all you're promoting is another rude reply that isn't going to be liked by you anyways.

If they wanted then they could easily turn your comment to them into a fight, anyways my bf is tugging me off for the same reason so do what you like, gn and have fun with your converse. >_>;

I don't think that it is necessarily elitist, but it does depend on how you tell the person that their DPS is on the low side.

I am a new player and I did rush a little to 50 to get access to Heavensward as soon as possible. I soaked in the storyline but beyond that there ara a lot of side quests undone at present.

I know that my DPS needs to be improved and have recently started reading up on best rotations etc, luckily my basic rotation was fine but I now know I need to weave an extra skills here and there to improve my DPS.

I, like many of you probably, have dipped my toes into WoW, mainly as a healer, and found LFG toxic, especially with people spamming recount to name and shame people for not doing the DPS they thought they should be doing, not taking into account gear, experience etc.

However, the toxicity I witnessed in WoW put me off PUGS, until starting to play FF14 and I realised I had to. It was with a heavy heart that I queued for my first dungeon, I can tell you, but to my surprise the community here is largely accepting and patient, and I have not had any bad experiences yet going through the dungeons here.

I agree that everyone needs to learn their job to the best they can, and if only parsers brought about positive constructive criticism they would be an awesome tool, but unfortunately they don't and I would hate to see this wonderful community have the WoW toxicity brought to it.

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Originally Posted by Lillia

Andddd being mature would just be shrugging it off like an adult, letting it go. if they are so rude then are they really worth your time? I think not, all you're promoting is another rude reply that isn't going to be liked by you anyways.

If they wanted then they could easily turn your comment to them into a fight, anyways my bf is tugging me off for the same reason so do what you like, gn and have fun with your converse. >_>;

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Well, you are right in that case. I admit that. It's just me being sanguine.

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Originally Posted by Alunari

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Obviously i'm not telling them "omg you suck, your dps is so bad" that would be dumb, plus I don't use a parser in pugs like I said.
What I do is watch them play and see what they're doing. If I see some weird stuff going on like SMN letting garuda on sic instead of Obey or one SMN that was instantly cancelling his Bahamut Trance (lvl 58 skill) by using Deathflare... i tell them this way "Hey XXX, you should put Garuda on obey, this way you can use her contagion to extend ALL of your dots, especially when you've empowered them with Bahamut Trance or Raging Strikes (both of those spells increase damage)" and "Hey you should not use Deathflare instantly when you enter Bahamut Trance, you should wait until the last second of Bahamut Trance before using Deathflare so that you can get the most benefit off of it"

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Originally Posted by jars

do you think people are willing to admit they are bad dps without actual numbers in front of them? if they could then they would be better dps already, wouldn't they?

I could be a bad dps, I have no way of really knowing!

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I think you can feel that you are not performing the best your job can do. I did feel that I needed to improve so started to read up on different rotation advice, but in all honesty I think you will always get that person who doesn't care and doesn't want to improve, they are quite happy to be carried, and I guess this is where the main problems lie.

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Originally Posted by Shamirah

Snip

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I would have no problems with someone advising me in this way, it can only improve my game play in the long run. It is the people who would abuse other players, and abuse the knowledge that goes with a parser, especially in DF, when you have quite a few new/levelling players going through and learning whichever job they're on.

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Originally Posted by Alunari

I think you can feel that you are not performing the best your job can do. I did feel that I needed to improve so started to read up on different rotation advice, but in all honesty I think you will always get that person who doesn't care and doesn't want to improve, they are quite happy to be carried, and I guess this is where the main problems lie.

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There is a certain amount you can feel....but there are many things that can go beyond your notice.Myself for example....I tend to move out/do mechanics as soon as possible. However, if I was to move at the last possible second and the like, I could do much higher DPS. This itself was told to me by a friend of mine, who does run the numbers. Its something I'll have to train on...but honestly was something I never actually thought of till he said it.

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Originally Posted by Kiara1

Oh I cant wait to try this fight and start getting frustrated due to bad dps.

Even my first bismarck HM had a couple of wipes.

What ilvl is the fight for? Im ilvl 168 and I dont do hunts so I cant really reach ilvl 170 which seem to be the number most PF groups wants

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There is no ilvl for the fight, though atleast 160 is probably recommended. It has been beaten by people all in the 150 range though. As well I've run into about as many groups with tanks who can't do the tank swap right, or healers/ranged (if they do it that way) who aren't hitting the DKs then bad dps.

My first clear also went a bit against the videos: Rather then focus the small add first, we took down the big add. Not sure if it was just good for that group or what, but it worked.

Oh I cant wait to try this fight and start getting frustrated due to bad dps.

Even my first bismarck HM had a couple of wipes.

What ilvl is the fight for? Im ilvl 168 and I dont do hunts so I cant really reach ilvl 170 which seem to be the number most PF groups wants