Crystal Tower runs are dieing.

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Originally Posted by fenrir87

Maybe thinking like this is weird, but shouldn't these raids be accessible for reasons other than gear? Like people have said, new players join all the time. Gear isn't the only reason they might want to run these raids. There's also the general content (I realize MMOs aren't necessarily famous for story, but this game does it pretty well) and the titles and achievements.

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The raids didn't go anywhere. People can still run them if they want to.

It has to be ok for content to become obsolete. I seriously SERIOUSLY don't want to be running CT raids three expansions from now just because old content isn't allowed to be old.

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Originally Posted by OmegaStrongtan

They should add ilvl 180 upgrade materials to CT weekly quest.
Yeah I find hunting all day long boring :P

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That's not a bad idea actually.

I want to solo wod in ilvl 350 gear. Deadset punt that mortal gaze giving sob back to 1970, carve Cerberus up for my Roe dinner and seduce the cloud lady before having her make me breakfast the day after the run. #Roethug4lyfe

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Originally Posted by Twilite

That's not a bad idea actually.

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It's actually a pretty terrible idea. Bonus tomes or extra fluff for old content is fine, but requiring old content to do new content (or get the newest gear) is an awful idea. I don't like hunts either, but if we're putting those items into a raid it ought to be alexander or the 24-man.

Didn't SE say they're already looking into ways to allow undersized parties into the CT raids? This seems like a problem that's already got a solution. Forcing them to be relevant is just not a good idea. They were already relevant for a long time, and let's be real: most of the time that they were relevant people did nothing but complain about them.

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Originally Posted by fenrir87

Maybe thinking like this is weird, but shouldn't these raids be accessible for reasons other than gear? Like people have said, new players join all the time. Gear isn't the only reason they might want to run these raids. There's also the general content (I realize MMOs aren't necessarily famous for story, but this game does it pretty well) and the titles and achievements.

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Sadly with the design of FFXIV in general, old content becomes pointless to run for anything other than the roulettes. There's just nothing noteworthy for the amount of time you spend in them. You might as well just jump into a new HW dungeon with lower queue times, better gear, and that same chance for card/minion/mount.

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Originally Posted by Malevicton

.... but requiring old content to do new content (or get the newest gear) is an awful idea....

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Can you say Relic?

They should create a new roullete with Ex Primals and Raids, and make it give you a box as daily reward. In this box they could add glamour stuff, mounts, forniture i dont know, just things that are not part of progression.

id prolly run it if it was added as a raid roulette for law @ lv60 or exp bonus 50-59

I'm so glad I don't have to run this anymore. The crystal tower is literally worthless outside of the lore/glamor and people are still doing it so it's still accessible just not as relevant as it once was. They've kicked this dead horse into oblivion and it was painfully boring to run even when it was relevant. Requiring this for new content at this point (post expansion) would be obtuse and mundane. On top of this you always have the option to PF a group who feels the same as you and run the content.

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Originally Posted by ChameleonMS

Can you say Relic?

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No one was ever required to get a relic and those who did understood that it was a time sink for power increase that they signed up for.

My comments

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Originally Posted by EZ5902

It is leveling because it boosts item level otherwise you cant run higher item level dungeons.

All classes start off with their i90 gear out the gate now from their class quests, which makes Crystal Tower trivial. Progressing through the story dungeons and trials a person should expect to have a decent set of PoE gear. Which would get them through to Ishgard where they can buy vendor gear that is almost on pair with WoD gear.

And no it is NOT dated for everyone... players are joining all the time...

See above

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Still want the Royal set from LotA on both characters. Don't have my DRG pants from WoD, either. Heaven forbid I decide to pick up any other jobs in the future and want something pretty dress in.

Just because something is old doesn't meant it has to be entirely irrelevant. There are people that are going to want to do these in the future; new and returning players, glamour seekers (i.e. me), people that actually enjoy the design and mechanics present, etc.

With that in mind, it's incredibly selfish to think that these three duties are unworthy of being given any further incentive just because you're bored with it.

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Originally Posted by rachcouture

With that in mind, it's incredibly selfish of me to think that these three duties are worthy of being given any further incentive just because I want to look pretty.

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Fixed that for you.

So very edgy and mature of you.

Does Second Coil also need further incentive in Heavensward?

I think the only thing that needs to change with Crystal Tower is that you need the option to somehow queue as an alliance, or queue as an underfilled alliance.

You cannot deny there are people that want to farm some nice looking tower gear, that is their prerogative.

However, getting 24 people every time is going to be a challenge, esp as you cannot queue as a cohesive unit.

The idea of alliances vs "raids" in other games really needs to be remedied.

I hate CT. I hated running it for the weekly quest. Correction- I hate running it with stupid people. When people come with their A game, I enjoy the raid. When people come and play like a$$hats, it's more of a chore. I'd like the BRD hat from WoD, but I doubt I will put the effort into getting it.

I would run it just for the scylla set, it looks great

Hi, just reporting, my dear beloved dark knight.... Became 50, buuuut... Even if I had the poety for a decent weapon for its beginning... I didn't have the tome (I did 102 runs of t11 for the dreadwyrm robe of casting, now I curse myself when I said "I don't fF**** need those tomes anymore!" )

Sooo I thought "Let's do the gift of the archmagus quest!".... No way, seriously, I was with a tank class, and one hour and nothing.... At the end I had to do 50-53 with soldiery one and still going, hoping for a drop in Som ahl D:

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Originally Posted by l---------------l

Hi, just reporting, my dear beloved dark knight.... Became 50, buuuut... Even if I had the poety for a decent weapon for its beginning... I didn't have the tome (I did 102 runs of t11 for the dreadwyrm robe of casting, now I curse myself when I said "I don't fF**** need those tomes anymore!" )

Sooo I thought "Let's do the gift of the archmagus quest!".... No way, seriously, I was with a tank class, and one hour and nothing.... At the end I had to do 50-53 with soldiery one and still going, hoping for a drop in Som ahl D:

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You could have purchased vendor gear i115 or even used the marketboard to buy hq versions for often cheaper. You are not the victim of crystal tower being underpopulated. I'm sorry but that is your own fault.

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Originally Posted by Edewen

You could have purchased vendor gear i115 or even used the marketboard to buy hq versions for often cheaper. You are not the victim of crystal tower being underpopulated. I'm sorry but that is your own fault.

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Uhm... Eto.. Sorry if I was misunderstood now as '''''victim'''' Was just saying getting into those raids is impossible (speaking in reasonable times) EVEN AS TANK...

I was speaking only of the weapon though, the gear is i130 dreadwyrm. (Also.... The HQ i115 sword is worse than the i110 soldiery one, check physical damage. )

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Originally Posted by l---------------l

Uhm... Eto.. Sorry if I was misunderstood now as '''''victim'''' Was just saying getting into those raids is impossible (speaking in reasonable times) EVEN AS TANK...

I was speaking only of the weapon though, the gear is i130 dreadwyrm. (Also.... The HQ i115 sword is worse than the i110 soldiery one, check physical damage. )

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You don't need to be BiS for questing content. the i115 is more than enough.

Yes, CT is underpopulated. But even if it weren't it would still be inefficient to farm gear there.

I can understand the people who just enjoyed it and want to keep the experience around, but the people trying to argue that it's still relevant are just wrong. If at any point you find yourself thinking that you need it for anything, you are wrong.

lol screw Cesspit Tower
I've washed my hands of it since FCoB went out of lockout

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Originally Posted by l---------------l

Uhm... Eto.. Sorry if I was misunderstood now as '''''victim'''' Was just saying getting into those raids is impossible (speaking in reasonable times) EVEN AS TANK...

I was speaking only of the weapon though, the gear is i130 dreadwyrm. (Also.... The HQ i115 sword is worse than the i110 soldiery one, check physical damage. )

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The queue was super long for tanks before the expansion anyway. Due to the 1 tank 5 dps 2 healers setup.

Honestly I think the best solution would be to just make two new roulettes, one for each size of raid. It's not as though this is a one time issue, Alexander and the new 24-man raid will both be meaningless after the next expansion I'm sure, and then they'll need a place to call home. Adding a new roulette for each would provide reason to do them, helping people who've yet to clear them/people who want glamour. They'd give extra XP to those who're leveling. Laws to those at 60. The rewards would be enough to be viable content but content that is by no means required. Is there any reason to not do it?

Good Crystal Tower produced under geared DRAGS that were so ridiculously lazy they refused to upgrade gear and make daily roulettes miserable for everyone.

I liked running WoD for fun but that was about it, as as a male WHM the gear is god awful looking and as others have said you get way better ger from vendors in Ishgard so really no point in doing Crystal Tower anymore. I agree though it would be nice if they took it with Coil and made it another roulette. I am level 60 WHM but never got around to doing the coils, as I literally did EVERYTHING except them, and then HW came out. So be nice to let people like myself or new players at least experiences these instances. WoD is one of my favs.

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Originally Posted by EZ5902

It is leveling because it boosts item level otherwise you cant run higher item level dungeons.

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The 2.1-2.55 MSQ rewards with gear now. At the end of 2.4 you have got a full i110 set just by doing MSQ, which is enough to start Heavensward MSQ.

Most 2.0 gear with the exception of poetic and dreadwyrm gear is pretty useless and obsolete for going into HW for sure. Remember though, LotA and CT started to fall off until WoD released with the weekly quest.

An underlying issue, which I don't think has been stated but I haven't read the whole thread, is that there is still a sizeable chunk of players that has not bought the expansion yet.

Extra dungeons and trials that yield no experience still need to be completed to access roulette. And there is no guarantee that crystal tower roulette will garner attention unless law bonus exceeded 100 tomes because of the pains that come from doing those those raids would still exist.

Also forgot to mention that at the time this thread was created, many people were dedicating time to the expansion so of course people stop doing crystal tower en mass.

Ct was tedious and im glad it no longer needs to be run. What they should do is make the gear and tradeable with poetics for those tyst want glamour.

Might as well add some New tomes rewards (little amount per each boss killed), or MGP rewards, or simply add new rewards to "The Gift Of The Archmagus" and make a new exchange NPC like currenty Alexander. Sometimes I really miss the days when everyone followed mechanics and despite the low gears we were doing clean clears.. now if you go in you see trolls with i999 that 'must' wipe at least once in every single boss fight.

Unfortunately, this is the way of themepark MMOs. Once something becomes outdated, it's left behind in the dust.

The only solution I see is to lower it down to where people can walk in and stomp it, just for glamour or for the puff of darkness pet. This is the only viable way.

Unless of course, you actually gather a group to do it.

Honestly I ran LoTA, ST and WoD on my Bard the que times were less then 10 mins. Maybe i'm just getting lucky? :S

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Originally Posted by Awful

Honestly I ran LoTA, ST and WoD on my Bard the que times were less then 10 mins. Maybe i'm just getting lucky? :S

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Queue times wouldn't be the problem in the CT runs, it the way people run it now that is the pain in the arse. People DO NOT run CT properly, that's why I never queue for it. I did the weekly for my MCH gun and I've never wanted to go back into it since.

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Originally Posted by Oreic

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This is an issue with every mmo. Once newer content is added, there is no incentive to go back to do them. SE has done revatively well later in 2.0 by adding in incentives to do older content like roulette and Zodiac weapon requirements, but with the expansion, most focus must be placed on newer content.

Ultimately it does fall on new players that join to decide if they want to go through it something like CT, which at this point is mostly for the sake of lore, like doing coils of bahamut now. I understand people want the glamour too but I honestly hope SE doesn't add anything that will feel like we will be forced to go through CT again because a lot of us dropped it like a bad habit once we had enough gear on one class to do coils.

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Originally Posted by Callinon

The raids didn't go anywhere. People can still run them if they want to.

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Originally Posted by Callinon

Does Second Coil also need further incentive in Heavensward?

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There is a distinct difference between the two. If I want to clear second coil I can party finder any group I want up to 8 people and go in undersized and wreck the place. If I want to run any of the CT raids then I have no other options except queue solo or build an 8 man group and queue 1/3 of an alliance since you cannot queue with more than 8 players. Also, the raids and their mechanics don't accommodate undersized grouping, so you just have to hope you can get the 24 people in the duty finder since even soloing at level 70 or 80 is just not physically possible. At that point they pretty much cannot be done at all which literally does kill them for any purpose. The raids need to either be retooled for a single party or they need to up the incentive to run it at all.

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Originally Posted by Chairman_Meow

It's literally non leveling content as level 50 dungeons don't give EXP.

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They do if you're not into Heavensward yet.

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Crystal tower is a 2.0 raid that only servers the purpose of glamour.

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The three raids give lots of poetics and the Ironworks gear is useful right up to level 53-54 in HW areas, especially if you've done the weekly carbon item quest to upgrade items to i130. It would be great if they also added the carbon items to the chests in WoD to help upgrade more quickly.

Augmented Ironworks is still pretty decent at those levels, and you can extend its shelf life a bit longer with the appropriate accessories and weapons. Also, the WoD drops are a nice kickstart if you're just moving into the expansion, especially when leveling multiple jobs besides your primary.

That said, something like the Sands of Time / Oils of Time drops in Syrcus might speed up upgrading, I concur. IMHO, I'd say the pragmatic issue now is about reigning gear -in- a little before the next big patch, given that Alex Savage is available and we're already shooting past ilvl 200+.

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Originally Posted by Geist

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Although Ironworks gear still out class much of the 115-130 gear that can be bought or obtained through quests simply because of their longevity while leveling, it isn't that much of an issue. It does suck for players late to obtain 2.0 endgame/bonus equipment, demon gear can be easily replaced at lv 52 through bought equipment, right before entering Dusk Vigil. Depending on the server and it's economy, you can find these HQ version on the cheap side while using the quest rewards for the HQ versions for second jobs or flat out selling them to recoup Gil you spent on buying them. I have little doubt that SE will make ironwork gear and upgrade materials easier to obtain as oppose to being forced to do dying content, CT and FCoB, as they have done for law upgrade materials.