Monk needs more synergy...thoughts?

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Originally Posted by pompey_dan

then you are doing it wrong, you should apply gl1 first

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That statement is completely wrong, applying dragon before GL1 can be beneficial for example T11. Its situation which position would be most beneficial.

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Originally Posted by neoxdeciple

That statement is completely wrong, applying dragon before GL1 can be beneficial for example T11. Its situation which position would be most beneficial.

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in t11 ?? you mean before nerve cloud lol ? if so there is enough time to do like 4 or 5 gcd before it goes off

it was an example of where it could be, just stating the fact that you dont ALWAYS have to go for demolish/ snap punch. albe it most common to do so.

And there's more reasons not to start with GL1 anyway. Twin Strike before Rockbreaker and possibly DK-Twin-Demo(PB)-SP-SP-TK-SP*3 opener. I'm not convinced on the best opener yet but haven't had the time to test. For now I'm quite happy having the choice where to start rather than having coeurl shoved in your face.

It just should be a globle cool down 1 use perfect balance. would be better and make everyone happy XD

There are a number of ways to fix meditation and alot of people have good suggeations on top of my head though...

Keep the 5 stacks -1) my own suggestion would he for every CRIT we gain 1 stack of chakra, this way there is a bit of RNG in play IN A WAY because we all know bootshine will always crit if hit from behind (also not always 100% u will be behind all the time).

2) make meditation off gcd. More button pressing tbh... And prolly be too OP in a way - not a big fan of this

3) make stacking of chakra like GL. Again simple and will always take 5 rotation before unleashing FC. A bit like my suggestion but quicker in building chakra Stacks If RNG gods dont like you :p


Only 3 stacks for FC - same as now but only 3 stack req for FC

FC should also have an after effect of getting GL1 like i said in my last post but i thought of another thing to add.

FC - gain 1 stack of GL but lose all forms. Basically going to restart back to no form and start from scratch. This way people would not just spam it in between skills and hav to way end of rotation to unleash it. (so you dont miss demo or sp).

If losing all forms is too much for every1 maybe just revert back to 1st form of opo opo. That way you still have to start beginning of rotation.

PS this FB change would only work if they keep 5 stack chakra. 3 stack would make it too OP.

PPS on phone cant find edit button.

I'm loving MNK to be honest, all be it I would have liked Chakra to be either TP gain or GL3 back which would have helped cover our weakness pretty nicely. Still perfecting timing on Tornado kick. Form shift I like to pop on pull once so I can start with Dragon kick for the buff/debuff straight off the bat. Or to start with demolish for GL1 then to DK etc. Whil Ive been using Perfect Balance for larger packs of trash. Which deals some out tasty AE DPS. But usually 5 Chakra is a one use OGCD damage ability. Won't get a full idea until savage Alex really pushes us where the TP gain may be more useful than the damage.

Using an opener then Form shift for demolish is a waste imo as you are pretty much losing time where you arent doing damage. Perfect Balance is still much better to attain GL3 asap.

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Originally Posted by Humorless

And there's more reasons not to start with GL1 anyway. Twin Strike before Rockbreaker and possibly DK-Twin-Demo(PB)-SP-SP-TK-SP*3 opener. I'm not convinced on the best opener yet but haven't had the time to test. For now I'm quite happy having the choice where to start rather than having coeurl shoved in your face.

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You can start with demo>DK>Twin etc. only 1 GCD without the buffs but the GL buff covers that anyways. But that can vary from fight to fight on how important it is to get the INT debuff on the boss.

I am loving these ideas coming out....and the more that I read them the more that I want them to happen. Monk would be a blast to play if it had this kind of battle flow and mechanical synergy. To put things in a nutshell I sorta wish that it would flow like a DPS in WoW. I know that we don't have skill trees but I do think that the skills can synergize the same way as this. MAYBE Yoshi P. is planning on skill trees in the future (i thought that i heard some where that he liked that concept)...and generally if he "likes" something it's sort of the direction that the game goes.

I really hope they never introduce the skill trees. In the end theres only the ilusion of choice while everyone gets the cookie cutter build while neglecting the rest of the tree

This was taken from a TIME magazine interview and proof that Yoshi P. has said that he would like to see skill trees.

http://time.com/3817373/final-fantasy-14-naoki-yoshida/

Of course, I won’t say that it would never happen in the future, but in party situations, hybrid roles can become either be too overpowering or very difficult to use, and it can lead to imbalance. Final Fantasy XIV’s core concept is to have the freedom to play each role through the Armoury System, so we may explore new directions through a skill tree, in which the player’s job will be determined by what actions have been obtained. Needless to say these won’t be immediate changes, but we will continue to work on creating jobs that are in line with Final Fantasy in a system that is very much like Final Fantasy. The red mage is one of my favorites, after all…

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

This was taken from a TIME magazine interview and proof that Yoshi P. has said that he would like to see skill trees.

http://time.com/3817373/final-fantasy-14-naoki-yoshida/

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Emphasis on the may as may != will which many on the forums seem to ignore, and take may do something as gospel to doing just that. ^_^

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Originally Posted by Bhearil

I really hope they never introduce the skill trees. In the end theres only the ilusion of choice while everyone gets the cookie cutter build while neglecting the rest of the tree

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This.

Also the more complexity of character builds, the harder it is to attain balance.As I'm sure many WoW players are blatently aware of.

Having done multiple runs in endgame dungeons, I'm pretty much changing my mind on Purification. Too many moments where the other DPS is not good and so battles have lasted long enough to where I have to use both Invigorate and Purification to keep my TP up. Seems to help a lot for those moments, considering the extra TP lasts long enough usually for Invigorate to come off cooldown. Just wish we could use this in level 50 dungeons without having to underman them.

As for the complaints on Tornado Kick, I've found myself using it often. It's a good mob finisher move when it's the last mob of a group and you know you won't get to the next group in time for GL3 to stay up. At around 8-13% it usually takes them out with the other DPS still on the enemy. I've also found myself using it during the boss fights due to how often RNG has screwed me from keeping GL3 up...looking at you, Neverreap. <_<

I just posted in the Monk thread, going post here too. Remove the damn animation lock on forbidden chakra SE, its terrible.

What if each use of Meditation adds 1 second to your GL counter?

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Originally Posted by OmegaStrongtan

What if each use of Meditation adds 1 second to your GL counter?

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Hmmm doesnt justify using it still i think.. Since meditation is on a 1.5sec gcd your still losing .5sec on gl every use

Yeah, that would be a useless buff.

Now that I've thought about it for a while, I think the following changes would be fun, and practical, but not OP:

1. Chakra stacks automatically every few seconds, 5 maybe, IF you're in Fists of Focus. (Yes, a new Fists form.)
2. Reduce the Potency of Forbidden Chakra, (WAIT, DON'T PITCHFORK ME!) *but* have it grant GL3.
3. Change Purification to an ability that removes all TP costs for a certain amount of time, 15 seconds maybe. (This would still serve the current purpose, but also allow it to have an alternate use for AoE spams.)

Why add another stance. We are hitting skill bloating right now. Here's a very simple fix which was put into my Q/A for this live letter. Make meditation similar to defiance. When active we get all elements stance and able to gain chakra per WS. And give mantra the ability to give us 5 chakra when activated along with its 20% healing pot. Problem solve.

What are you even saying? Meditation isn't a buff, it's a skill. How is it "active"?

And Mantra is for GROUP healing, not a self-buff. Don't eat into my raid utility with your lazy ideas.

Lazy ideas r u kidding no one invites a mnk for mantra. Any healer can and able to heal without mantra. And it's not like I'm suggesting that the healing bonus gets taken away from mantra. Also a lot of monk have ask for chakra gain similar to wrath, you gain per WS . So why not Make that auto similar to defiance. Your just adding more skills which we don't need. Instead of adding why not work the things we have already.

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Originally Posted by Butcherboy

r u kidding no one invites a mnk for mantra

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Are you kidding? Mantra is a very powerful ability, and is extremely useful in the hands of a proficient MNK in progression.

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Originally Posted by Butcherboy

Lazy ideas r u kidding no one invites a mnk for mantra. Any healer can and able to heal without mantra. And it's not like I'm suggesting that the healing bonus gets taken away from mantra. Also a lot of monk have ask for chakra gain similar to wrath, you gain per WS . So why not Make that auto similar to defiance. Your just adding more skills which we don't need. Instead of adding why not work the things we have already.

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People don't invite monks specifically for mantra because high DPS and magic damage reduction tend to overshadow it as reasons to invite a monk. That said, you'd have to be out of your mind if you don't think a whole party convalescence is potentially useful.

I've actually sort of quit playing my monk and started leveling other classes because I just don't like it right now. Although they are still one of the top dps classes their strength is still largely based off of how great their 2.0 kit was and how overpowered elixir field is. I do think form shift is amazing and I do actually like the synergy of purification and forbidden chakra, but I think the execution of meditate and the chakra stacks kind of hampers how great the skills could be (the FC animation is so long it delays the use of your next skill and the 7.5 seconds of spam on meditate to get 5 chakra seems very out of place on a class that is supposed to be fast, fluid, and constantly fighting).

I also appreciate the idea behind tornado kick but considering how you generally get more damage from other cooldowns like elixir field (seriously, this move is so op) and forbidden chakra it seems very underwhelming.

Anyway, I just hope there are some small quality of life changes to monk because I do really like the class and had very high hopes for the new abilities. But from what other people are saying on the forums and what else I'm seeing online monk might not be on the top of the list (minus changing some sound effects). So I'll probably continue to level my other classes, see if there's anything I like more and go from there.

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Originally Posted by CGMidlander

People don't invite monks specifically for mantra because high DPS and magic damage reduction tend to overshadow it as reasons to invite a monk. That said, you'd have to be out of your mind if you don't think a whole party convalescence is potentially useful.

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Ok I'm not saying mantra is garbage and trust I use it whenever is up but that's not the point, if there's a pick of 1 melee to fill in the party drg nin mnk, no one would and invite mnk because of " hey let's invite the mnk for mantra" lol, it's either drg or nin that will get pick specially if there's a drk n the party. Again mantra is great but at this moment it's not a mnk saving grace. So don't come and hate on me. I'll always play a mnk and be a mnk, I'm just not blinded that's all.

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Originally Posted by SwarleyMcSwarls

Anyway, I just hope there are some small quality of life changes to monk because I do really like the class and had very high hopes for the new abilities. But from what other people are saying on the forums and what else I'm seeing online monk might not be on the top of the list (minus changing some sound effects). So I'll probably continue to level my other classes, see if there's anything I like more and go from there.

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At this moment out of the 3 melee we r in 3rd place when it comes to burst and sustain dps , unless a video is shown. I've been looking around and haven't seen it. There's some 1.140k 3 min for mnk but I've seen a nin for 3 min 1.540k . Drg did 1.2k 3 min by Aurily and a 1.9k burst on nin. Our best is 1.4k burst but that's understandable since mnk r not bursting class. But sustain we should be up there. If someone can beat a 1.2k drg by Aurily and post it that would be great.

All MNK needs is for meditate to be off the gcd. It's absolutely ridiculous that its on the gcd, maybe increase the cd a little or just make it like NINs ninjutsu and give fobidden chakra a min cd. As for tornado kick, the potency could be more but i do like it. Elixer Field and Form Change are incredible. But ffs change meditate!

mediation should've been more like gaining stack like a warrior's wrath and in exchange slightly drop the potency of the skill that goes off it, or use all 5 to gain a greased stack cause i still lose stack when trying to handle mechanics and its a bother. This way it also gives the choice of popping tp regen or using a super skill

they should also make form shift animation faster like how they did with the warrior overpower, as far as i know it feels like its better to go through the skills itself than use it

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Originally Posted by Butcherboy

There's some 1.140k 3 min for mnk but I've seen a nin for 3 min 1.540k . Drg did 1.2k 3 min by Aurily and a 1.9k burst on nin. Our best is 1.4k burst but that's understandable since mnk r not bursting class. But sustain we should be up there. If someone can beat a 1.2k drg by Aurily and post it that would be great.

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Damn, NIN and MNK sure blow DRG out of the water with 1.140.000-1.540.000 DPS!

No but really I actually like the suggestion that someone made a while back;
They should let us gain Chakra stacks with every combo finisher after we have 3 GL stacks.

So far I've managed to get up to 1173 DPS in a 4 minute parse (Most of the time I'm sitting on 1150 though), I'm sure there are monks out there that can easily beat that.
Still missing two upgrades but I don't think they change the results too much.

Over all I think the devs had their hearts in the right place when it concerns us but they tripped and face planted alittle. But its not a disater and just requires certain quality of life changes.

Form Shift: Be honest the purpose of this move is to allow us to ether start a fight with demolish or snap punch. Or allow us to save our GL stacks in a pinch. So why have us go through all the hoops? Lets make this what it effectively is, a weaker version of Perfect Balance.
My fix: Make it a buff that like PB allows the use of any one move regardless of form with a 12 second CD.

Meditation: Again good idea, hearts in the right place, executed poorly.
My fix: Simple, take it off the global cooldown. Allow us to prime this awesome move between our combos. You could even justify this through the monks story, we open new chakras in combat. We need to be able to use these moves more often.

Purification: Get rid of it. On a conceptual/aesthetic side of things I like it but its entirely unnecessary while we have invigorate.
My fix: Replace this with the monk version of the thundercloud trait. Where we have a chance on GL stack to be able to use Tornado Kick for free without losing our current GL stacks.

With the Forbidden Chakra and Tornado Kick I like to think of it as if the expansion was Christmas and for x-mas SE gave the monk community these really cool umbrellas. They look awesome and we like them but we only ever get to use them when it rains while the rest of the classes got more practical things they can use often. But as Ive been playing this game Ive seen SE really watch the community and react to player feedback so Im confident we'll see some changes we can be satisfied with. Hope you liked my ideas though, square they are free to steal be my guest.

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Originally Posted by Butcherboy

At this moment out of the 3 melee we r in 3rd place when it comes to burst and sustain dps , unless a video is shown. I've been looking around and haven't seen it. There's some 1.140k 3 min for mnk but I've seen a nin for 3 min 1.540k . Drg did 1.2k 3 min by Aurily and a 1.9k burst on nin. Our best is 1.4k burst but that's understandable since mnk r not bursting class. But sustain we should be up there. If someone can beat a 1.2k drg by Aurily and post it that would be great.

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1.54k on NIN??? you mean 1.154k right?
the 1.147k MNK 3min parse has a screenshot of a 1.179k parse, so we're still at 2nd place atm

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Originally Posted by Humorless

That's uh, just your opinion.

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He is pretty much right there Demolish>DK etc. 1 stacko of GL with dot and straiaght into apllying debuffs with damage boost from one GCD.

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Originally Posted by Barghest1210

Purification: Get rid of it. On a conceptual/aesthetic side of things I like it but its entirely unnecessary while we have invigorate.
My fix: Replace this with the monk version of the thundercloud trait. Where we have a chance on GL stack to be able to use Tornado Kick for free without losing our current GL stacks.

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Hows about wait for Alexander extreme and see if that additional 300 TP will outweigh the damage from Forbidden before making full judgement. Content is not really pushing us to the limits yet.

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Originally Posted by Barghest1210

Purification: Get rid of it. On a conceptual/aesthetic side of things I like it but its entirely unnecessary while we have invigorate.
My fix: Replace this with the monk version of the thundercloud trait. Where we have a chance on GL stack to be able to use Tornado Kick for free without losing our current GL stacks.
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Too early indeed, Purification allows MNK to do this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hphogM-qwMk (credit to Kekona).
now what's the use of longevity outside of dummy hitting is yet to be discovered... "Please look forward to it" :)

perhaps but I still think we need a thundercloud like trait so we can actually use our best new toy more often