Easiest dps right now

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ogrumz

My point is your class isn't some extremely hard to play thing that you need to get all hurt over someone pointing it out? There are several other DPS classes that have things that are 'just as hard' and 'just as annoying' and 'just as complex' as dragoon does. I don't find 2 random positionals adding complexity to a class.

---

Not sure why you are arguing so hard when you don't seem to actually know how drg has changed. Its not the positonals, its balancing BotD and Geirskogul, something which makes maximising dps on any fight with interrupts very difficult and can be very punishing if you loose BotD. Adding random proc positionals and having to use two instant abilities between gcds also adds to the new difficulty.

Also you keep saying other dps classes have things as hard. I have don't know if they do or don't, but the only example you can give is Astrologian, which is not relevant.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RalLamora

Also you keep saying other dps classes have things as hard. I have don't know if they do or don't, but the only example you can give is Astrologian, which is not relevant.

---

Monks, Summoners, from what I hear. I have been playing MCH, and it has a interesting opener, and a interesting set of abilities to use every 90 seconds but it is really simple. I just don't consider DRG a hard to play class. I'd put it up there with BLM, NIN, BRD/MCH in terms of easy to play. Which is what this thread is about. Most people I talk to find MNK/SMN to be daunting. MNK was the DPS class I mained before heavensward and I never found it too hard to learn.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vallhallix

SMN for sure but maybe it's just easy to me because I started as one and know how to play it well. Switching between the pet and your abilities rapidly is like second nature now. Just dusted the old geezer off and ran DV. I forgot how enjoyable it was.

---

Likewise. I main scholar and I got bored of it this week. Switched back to Summoner, and OMG I love it!

I also find SMN easy, but before HS.
Now i don't really now what is the best use of Tri disaster on bosses, because we would always lose some dot potency when using it (unless all dots end at the same time, which is rare).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ogrumz

My point is your class isn't some extremely hard to play thing that you need to get all hurt over someone pointing it out? There are several other DPS classes that have things that are 'just as hard' and 'just as annoying' and 'just as complex' as dragoon does. I don't find 2 random positionals adding complexity to a class.

---

First thing, no one ever said that it is "some extremely hard to play thing". We are discussing two things:

1) Is DRG significantly more complex than before HW? Yes it is. I honestly don't know how one can deny that fact (mind though that "harder than before" doesn't even remotely equal "extremely hard to play"; it still is easy, as FFXIV isn't exactly a very complex or hard to play MMO to begin with)
2) Is DRG the "easiest" DPS job in FFXIV? I guess most people can actually agree to say "No" to this one.

And if you'd be so kind, would you please point me to a class mechanic that is "as annoying" as having to react to random positionals?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ogrumz

Monks, Summoners, from what I hear. I have been playing MCH, and it has a interesting opener, and a interesting set of abilities to use every 90 seconds but it is really simple. I just don't consider DRG a hard to play class. I'd put it up there with BLM, NIN, BRD/MCH in terms of easy to play. Which is what this thread is about. Most people I talk to find MNK/SMN to be daunting. MNK was the DPS class I mained before heavensward and I never found it too hard to learn.

---

So what is supposedly harder for Monks? They have more positionals, yes, but their positionals always require set positions, nor RNG involved, which kind of makes Monks not harder to handle on the positionals. Greased Lightning? Well, DRG now have their own type of GL in form of BotD, only that we have to handle it in a more active way, As long as a Monk is doing his rotation, he will never really care for how much time is left on GL, nor does he have to spend remaining GL time. Not harder on that part, too. So if Monk is your holy grail on FFXIV class difficulty, how come's that you place DRG on the other end of the spectrum?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ogrumz

Monks, Summoners, from what I hear. I have been playing MCH, and it has a interesting opener, and a interesting set of abilities to use every 90 seconds but it is really simple. I just don't consider DRG a hard to play class. I'd put it up there with BLM, NIN, BRD/MCH in terms of easy to play. Which is what this thread is about. Most people I talk to find MNK/SMN to be daunting. MNK was the DPS class I mained before heavensward and I never found it too hard to learn.

---

SMN is probably one of the contenders for most difficult but MNK from what i hear has not changed much in HW, so would disagree on MNK being hard.

ITT: Guy asks for advise on what class is easiest to play for DPS, but it gets shipwrecked by Dragoons needing to flex their e-peen and feel superior because they play a "hard" class. More at 11.

Also, I don't have a dog in this fight, but an annoying feature for Ninja is Mudras (in general, so many button presses and combos and lag, bleach, not hard but definitely annoying, like buying reagents to use your buffs in WoW basically) then using your Ninjitsu for a Suiton to use a trick attack (positional move) only for the boss to swivel around and it cancels the bonus damage and effect! doh! That's very annoying!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krissey

ITT: Guy asks for advise on what class is easiest to play for DPS, but it gets shipwrecked by Dragoons needing to flex their e-peen and feel superior because they play a "hard" class. More at 11.

---

Did you read the thread?

DRG is a bit of a pain now imo. we had a pretty decent rotation going in 2.0. Now it is just confusing at times especially with all the mechanics going on. Yesterday finally hit 60 and was spending most of the time staring at my toolbars and swearing about loosing botd. but i guess need to get used to it. Also how to bind 33 skills that i use on every day basis on drg o_O I think it is not even possible to play it on PS4 without dropping "less important" stuff or using some crazy macros. Dunno how PS4 ppl manage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pluvia

Did you read the thread?

---

Every single post. From page 1 to page 5.

The guy ended up deciding to stay Black Mage based on recommendations that it's essentially still "hit fire til mana is gone, hit ice to get it back" with a few more bells and whistles attached now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xnonamex

DRG is a bit of a pain now imo. we had a pretty decent rotation going in 2.0. Now it is just confusing at times especially with all the mechanics going on. Yesterday finally hit 60 and was spending most of the time staring at my toolbars and swearing about loosing botd. but i guess need to get used to it. Also how to bind 33 skills that i use on every day basis on drg o_O I think it is not even possible to play it on PS4 without dropping "less important" stuff or using some crazy macros. Dunno how PS4 ppl manage.

---

Give it some time, you can't pretend to be super good at it without some serious practice over time. It'll be good. I found the new rotation really fun and challenging. Actually I've fit all I need in one crossbar+ secret crossbar.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krissey

Also, I don't have a dog in this fight, but an annoying feature for Ninja is Mudras (in general, so many button presses and combos and lag, bleach, not hard but definitely annoying, like buying reagents to use your buffs in WoW basically) then using your Ninjitsu for a Suiton to use a trick attack (positional move) only for the boss to swivel around and it cancels the bonus damage and effect! doh! That's very annoying!

---

Since when does "lag" classify as a mechanic? People playing in JP don't suffer from lag for example, so it's not due to class design. And bosses swiveling around and your Positional is screwed? Guess that applies to all classes that rely on positionals. Though I do agree that they should actually make it work the same way as ID and HT for Dragoons, just cancel the donus damage but still aply the effect when not hitting from the correct position.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vodomir

Since when does "lag" classify as a mechanic? People playing in JP don't suffer from lag for example, so it's not due to class design. And bosses swiveling around and your Positional is screwed? Guess that applies to all classes that rely on positionals. Though I do agree that they should actually make it work the same way as ID and HT for Dragoons, just cancel the donus damage but still aply the effect when not hitting from the correct position.

---

Yea iirc now Trick attack is the only positional ability that works like that now. that 10% doesn't only hurt ninja lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vodomir

Since when does "lag" classify as a mechanic? People playing in JP don't suffer from lag for example, so it's not due to class design. And bosses swiveling around and your Positional is screwed? Guess that applies to all classes that rely on positionals. Though I do agree that they should actually make it work the same way as ID and HT for Dragoons, just cancel the donus damage but still aply the effect when not hitting from the correct position.

---

You asked for classes with annoying mechanics. Losing a GCD due to lag or accidentally double tapping due to lag and getting the rabbit is annoying. And yeah, every class with positional a finds the merry-go-round bosses annoying, but you asked for a specific instance so I said blowing trick attack is annoying.

Why? Because the set up is 5 whole button presses. Ten Chi Jin Ninjistu Trick Attack! Damn it whiffed! That's annoying! Lol.

Oh, another annoying class effect is the Monk Meditation apparently. So annoying it got an official response they're working on it. Kek.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krissey

You asked for classes with annoying mechanics. Losing a GCD due to lag or accidentally double tapping due to lag and getting the rabbit is annoying. And yeah, every class with positional a finds the merry-go-round bosses annoying, but you asked for a specific instance so I said blowing trick attack is annoying.

Why? Because the set up is 5 whole button presses. Ten Chi Jin Ninjistu Trick Attack! Damn it whiffed! That's annoying! Lol.

Oh, another annoying class effect is the Monk Meditation apparently. So annoying it got an official response they're working on it. Kek.

---

I thought the meditation thing was because the sound effect after repeated use (gotta build those stacks!) was causing people to claw their ears out, not necessarily that there was a mechanical flaw they were addressing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HeavensSword

I thought the meditation thing was because the sound effect after repeated use (gotta build those stacks!) was causing people to claw their ears out, not necessarily that there was a mechanical flaw they were addressing.

---

Yeah dev respond to a request that is irrelevant to the problem of meditation it have and what is doing to the job. Yeah let's fix the noise that the kids r complaining about and and let's ignore holy and ROT sound gtfo devs.

definitely not DRG.
i switched from MNK to DRG to have easier time but it ended up feeling much harder lol.

but that pure damage tho..
yumm

Either Miner or Botanist...
And if you wanna fight, summon your Chocobo :|

No positionals, melee, no buttons! Your Chocobo could take care of the heals, damage and defense if its max rank too!!

... I should test this :|
*off to do MSQ as a fisher*

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arkenne

Either Miner or Botanist...
And if you wanna fight, summon your Chocobo :|

No positionals, melee, no buttons! Your Chocobo could take care of the heals, damage and defense if its max rank too!!

... I should test this :|
*off to do MSQ as a fisher*

---

Don't get me started on stealth! "Ooo, let me just waltz on past all mobs"
Other harder classes can't even come close to something like that. C'mon SE.

ITT: Don't say DRG is easy to play or they'll come to the thread and belly ache about it. This is of course, after they are dead on the ground. If only DRGs got reraise. :>

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shamirah

Your smn is not even 60...

---

It's 56 but I have eyes. SMN's rotation is still straight forward it hasn't changed like blms. Only thing that's different now is stronger AoEs, pet buffs, and a 15 sec damage buff. You're still doing the same thing you've always done with only superficial differences. The buffs to the class just made it even more easier to be honest. I kill trash even faster now with more mana to spare. Used to be you couldn't even spam ruin II without running low.

yeah and 88% of the summoners I see still can't use a proper rotation or snapshots their dots correctly/use bahamut trance correctly.

So much for the easiest class.

A lot of that comes from newcomers being lazy and not using all of smns tools, but I don't think bad players should be evidence of a class being complex. Afterall blm was the most straight forward class before 3.0 and there were still people bad at it. There were some people who would get hit by every single AoE lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashquar

Likewise. I main scholar and I got bored of it this week. Switched back to Summoner, and OMG I love it!

---

After debating with myself for about an hour and coming to the realization I was tired of firing I decided to stop leveling Blm (54) and continue smn instead (56) not regreting it so far. The aoe damage is insane can't wait until 60.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ogrumz

ITT: Don't say DRG is easy to play or they'll come to the thread and belly ache about it. This is of course, after they are dead on the ground. If only DRGs got reraise. :>

---

Giving up already? Your point is null after this nonsensical reply. Maybe try playing DRG at level 60 instead of claiming that you know DRG is easysauce. Git gud and git lost scrub. :>

Can't talk about HW Changes from a personal view, cuz i can't decide what to level...everything seems so boring.

i played almost every mmo ever made and i don't know why you throw words around like "complex" "hard" in regards to the classes...

its just BLOATED like hell^^
Why does a spam rotation need 10+ buttons? and another 10 for cooldowns and ogcd's..

From this thread i get, everything is super hard and super easy... thanks for the insight! :cool:

Yes, I guess what I was looking for was a less bloated rotation, timing procs and stuff isn't much of a problem compared to having to use 20+ skills to do a simple bossfight rotation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shamirah

yeah and 88% of the summoners I see still can't use a proper rotation or snapshots their dots correctly/use bahamut trance correctly.

So much for the easiest class.

---

people couldn't play it at 50 either

I always thought 50 summoner was a nice medium difficulty but the new skill have me going ehhhhh before leveling it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vallhallix

It's 56 but I have eyes. SMN's rotation is still straight forward it hasn't changed like blms. Only thing that's different now is stronger AoEs, pet buffs, and a 15 sec damage buff. You're still doing the same thing you've always done with only superficial differences. The buffs to the class just made it even more easier to be honest. I kill trash even faster now with more mana to spare. Used to be you couldn't even spam ruin II without running low.

---

Yup because it's not like we have to weave in Dreadwyrm Trance along with Deathflare in our opener or anything, and we can just spam Ruin IIs without going low. /s

SMN is easier now. Stop trying to make it sound like more than it is lol. Being good at it though, is very difficult you have to weave almost every skill you have in your opening WHILE figuring out how to do consistent damage the rest of the fight. It's also incredibly bloated if you're micromanaging your pet. That being said, it's really fun to play now with the new skills, and can do massive aoe and single target damage.

I love how you contredict yourself in the same sentence. "SMN is easier" "being good at it is very difficult". Ok.

Every job is easy if you suck at it.

I'm trying to say it's easier now to pull higher DPS, but difficult to master the job because of how bloated it is. I'm not tryna argue or anything but ok

The Ability Bloat is something i really dislike about the game and adding even more skills with the addon was the wrong direction.

Other games try to avoid ability bloat or get rid of it lately...

When i think about classes i always think maximum potential, not playing the lazy way...
With that in mind nearly all class rotations got really bloated.

DRG needs something like 15 buttons,positionals,RNG
SMN also has lots of Buttons including pet micromanaging (which should be a given)

In my opinion that doesn't make the class rotations difficult/hard to play, for me there is no better discription then totally bloated.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by waifugenerator

I'm trying to say it's easier now to pull higher DPS, but difficult to master the job because of how bloated it is. I'm not tryna argue or anything but ok

---

Sorry if i came out harsh. was not my intention ^^

Just ran aery with two smns ripped through everything we're so getting nerfed. No way will square let us be this powerful :( enjoy it while it last. Tri disaster is stupid good now.

SMN is not top dps... so why would it be nerfed ?

The issue is that people say "smn are op" because they're talking about speedruns. The thing is : 90% of the speedruns I healed, only SMN used their aoe. All the others classes were doing single target dps which is totally stupid. Especially the blm because "lol a flare is useless" or "fire 2 is useless"... /sigh.

I'm not saying SMN's aoe is not strong... but the thing that matters the most is ST and utility. Hello DRG 15% crit buff and increasing BRD/MCH damage. Hello ninja 10% party wide damage buff, emnity control and TP regen. etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ogrumz

snip

---

Why are people arguing or even giving this guy attention again? His character isn't even level 60 yet for MNK or DRG, from this you should be able to tell that this guy has no experience whatsoever playing those two classes at its intended level. I can't speak for Monk's side but playing Dragoon and achieving its most perfect possible DPS without making mistakes in current difficult content such as Ravana EX is very difficult to pull off.

^Yeah I have to Bane twice even with Contagion and BlizzII spam because other dps aren't aoe-ing, it burns right through my AF stacks :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ogrumz

ITT: Don't say DRG is easy to play or they'll come to the thread and belly ache about it. This is of course, after they are dead on the ground. If only DRGs got reraise. :>

---

Uh huh. Im sorry but DRG is a difficult class to play, I dont even play one and i can say that. Im not a DRG main, i dont play DRG (I play SMN).

So maybe a little less condescending?

For single target too. Not spending that extra time casting all your dots makes a huge difference and it costing no mana means you can go a little more crazy with cds. It also makes taking care of boss adds less of an issue. All I know is it took barely any time to melt all bosses. Fastest run i've had.....other classes i've been with were mch, drg, blm. Took slightly longer on bosses. Thing is the other smn wasn't even using all the tools I was (he didn't even use shadow flare on any of the bosses, no miasma II) and I never saw him use enkindle for mobs or contagion on bosses once.

I hope you're right but idunno I can feel it in my gut.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sunali

The Ability Bloat is something i really dislike about the game and adding even more skills with the addon was the wrong direction.

Other games try to avoid ability bloat or get rid of it lately...

When i think about classes i always think maximum potential, not playing the lazy way...
With that in mind nearly all class rotations got really bloated.

DRG needs something like 15 buttons,positionals,RNG
SMN also has lots of Buttons including pet micromanaging (which should be a given)

In my opinion that doesn't make the class rotations difficult/hard to play, for me there is no better discription then totally bloated.

---

While having a lot of individual buttons is not a good thing, in my opinion, handling multiple things such as buffs, debuffs, positions etc. is legitimate challenge to a rotation.
Dealing and maintaining such things while dealing with boss mechanics is what Jobs are meant to deal with.
There are ways to get around that without dealing with button bloat though.

SMN, for example, fillers with Ruin III instead of Ruin during Dreadwyrm Trance if I understand correctly.
They should've simply made DWT turn Ruin into Ruin III under the Dreadwyrm Trance effect.
Ninja's ninjutsu is another way they provided a ton of skills with 3 buttons (4 if you include the Ninjutsu trigger).

But managing dots, effects and positions all at once. That's not really ability bloat.

Things like BLM have a different type of difficulty.
It deals more with stuff like immobility, and thus fight awareness, as well as proper timing and reaction to procs.


Both engage players in different ways, which they may or may not enjoy.
One is more about multi-tasking but it suffers from being overwhelming when put into a unstable combat situation. Micromanaging multiple timers while dealing with mechanics
The other is more about timing and more situational difficulty but it's also binary and more punishing. The individual skills are more important, so one mistimed skill can kill your dps.

Those are different types of 'difficulty', but I think a better word is engagement.
You can call one just bloated, you can call the other artificially limitations (such as immobility).
No one is really going to agree on this and most just say the most challenging is the one that engages them the most.

Because people usually pick the Job which has weakness they're willing to accept.
They also like to downplay any challenge or difficulty there is to the way other classes play, such as you just did, by calling it something else.
Because that's not the way they want to be engaged or challenged. So it's not "real challenge".

Everything is easy to the really top level players, but they are few and far between.
Even so, there's almost always something better you can do over the course of a fight, no matter which Job.
So yea, there are different forms of difficulty to each of the classes and each player is going to perceive of the Job's challenges and weaknesses very difficulty.

Which is why these discussions never actually go anywhere.