Machinist needs serious attention

People on reddit have been comparing all the jobs at level 60 with comparable gear and well, MCH is the absolute lowest by far.

The DPS numbers:
SMN: 1050-1100dps (ilvl161 w/ ilvl 170 weapon)
DRG: 1100-1200dps (ilvl170)
MNK: 1100dps (ilvl170)
BRD: 900-1000dps (ilvl161 w/ilvl 170 weapon)
MCH: 760-840dps (ilvl170 w/ilvl 180 weapon)
WAR: 750dps (ilvl159 w/ ilvl 170 weapon)
BLM: 977dps (ilvl159 w/ ilvl 170 weapon)

Yes, melee dps should be higher because in a normal boss fight they have to move out of range and other stuff. MCH don't but still, that much of a difference is ridiculous. BRD is higher and if you get horrible RNG your DPS will go lower. I've lost count of the times when Split Shot did not proc until quick reload was up. I've had runs where the supposed 50% proc rate was more like 15%.

I still love the job but I fully expect people to not want it for end-game raids until S-E buffs it a bit.

For whatever the opinion of a 49 Bard thats been pretty much leveling with a MCH in every single dungeon since 30 ... I agree that MCH do seem to need some love. At first I was just like "well maybe its a new class and players still havent figured things out." Now though theyre actually getting worse, if anything. When mobs are split im usually ahead, im always the one in the yellow as far as aggro goes... not to mention you get an odd complaint every now and then (ie "I wish my Misery's End was on a 12sec CD:("). I know its not cold hard numbers but for what its worth its my opinion.

Who knows, it is technically a new class though none of the others seem to be having much trouble performing. AST does seem to have trouble keeping up in heavy fights (which could be DRK mitigation problems) but other than that theyre fine.

THANK YOU FOR POSTING THIS HERE!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes! YES! Upvotes a billion times YES!

Here you go, my thread I made the first day of prerelease on machinist when I realized something was wrong. And yes I did my absolute utmost to do maximum damage and rotation and STILL felt this way.

I still do feel this same way even today. My Scholar does more DPS for real when I spam broil. It's upsetting to say the least.

I have a member in my FC who states that it gets better, that he does well... but I wonder if he is saying that just to make me feel better.


My thread:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...to-level-42%29

.

Propose changes you'd like to see to the Job in this thread: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...s-Changes-HERE

Or discuss my proposed changes, if you wish.

I've gotten my mch to 53, and I still don't feel like I do as much damage as my Bard did at 50. I really like the idea and concept of the MCH, but SE's execution here is seriously weak. There's too much RNG that keeps me looking at my bars instead of enjoying the amazing fights I'm engaged in, as if my character is just staring at his feet all the time. The turret just seems to be... there. It's all just kind of bland, which is seriously out of place in the FF universe.

There are changes that I think could fix this class:
1. Lower the GCD / Casting time to so we can spam Split Shot more
2. Increase the proc chance between Split and Slug to 75% or 80%, leave the proc chance between Slug and Cleaner alone
3. Increase all of the overall potencies of weaponskills
4. Increase all of the overal potencies of Turret to do more damage
5. Make Wildfire cut through all defenses (it's getting hit with 2 defense reductions, the only move that does that in the entire game)

Personally I think 1, 2, and 5 should be done straight off the bat to make MCH comparable to other dps. Either do 3 or 4 but not both.

I've added a few more and posted them on the front page. Thank you to everyone who has posted. Whether or not you agree with what's going on with MCH atm, the suggestions and information is so incredibly helpful.

Please SE, fix MCH before Alexander or at least give it some sort of temporary buff until you can implement the appropriate changes. If you still don't think there's something wrong with MCH or that we're not playing it properly, look at these posts and watch the numbers in game. Please at least investigate what's going on, b/c your customers on Reddit and some here are showing concern.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PlumpyMcduff

.

Propose changes you'd like to see to the Job in this thread: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...s-Changes-HERE

Or discuss my proposed changes, if you wish.

---

Thank you so much for the post

I've never had any with my MCH DPS. I can't speak for the raw numbers, but in terms of practical usage I could easily keep up with my GF in game when she plays her NIN who had better gear than me the last time we ran DPSing together, (LVL 50), and is one of the far more competent ones I've seen in the game. At level 52, I ran Dusk Vigil and was keeping up with the NIN we got paired up with in there without much trouble except during one boss fight. I keep my turrets up, use my OGC skills in between normal attacks' cooldowns, and time my reloads to have the maximum damage benefit, but I would imagine those are par for the course, so I don't really get what the issue is. It could simply be something that comes closer to level 60, but so far I've had no problems with my DPS.....

EDIT: For reference, I also hadn't unlocked Gauss Barrel when I did Dusk Vigil.....

It's hard to figure out how one judges "good dps". Some people think they're good at their job and have it all figured out, but compared to who??? I think input from many other players need to be considered and practiced before you can actually be good. I'm not lvling mch right now, but I can tell when I do play with one, they're definitely on the low end and I am aware of their abilities. It just doesn't seem like a fun job to play right now.

I love how you are complaining about a 50% proc rate to essentially double your chain skills and you say it is worse than BRD.... That is hilarious considering the only combo skill BRDs have now is a 15% chance to auto crit our one skill(mind is going blank right now on skill name) and 15% each tick that cries on Windbite and Venomous Shot to instant CD Bloodletter/RoD.

If a MCH is doing as near dmg as a WAR and less you know you have a problem lmao.
Goodness, what happened here?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mhikail

If a MCH is doing as near dmg as a WAR and less you know you have a problem lmao.
Goodness, what happened here?

---

I doubt those are the true numbers. Only real way to tell is by using parsing software and that is against ToS.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fantasy9

I love how you are complaining about a 50% proc rate to essentially double your chain skills and you say it is worse than BRD.... That is hilarious considering the only combo skill BRDs have now is a 15% chance to auto crit our one skill(mind is going blank right now on skill name) and 15% each tick that cries on Windbite and Venomous Shot to instant CD Bloodletter/RoD.

---

That 50% proc does not double our chain skill, it starts our chain skill, otherwise we have to depend on a cooldown just to do our chain skill. Without the procs, the skills are a blatant waste of TP

Either way, that's terrible too. One bad situation does not excuse another. Personally, I think both BRD and MCH are in a really bad place right now. In general, the RNG that has been put into all the classes is pretty unacceptable imo. We went from having combo skills that output damage to now having our combo skills possibly not go off b/c of RNG.

From what I've seen, RNG should be reserved for that one extra move that's like the cherry on top of the cake. RNG does not make anything exciting when it's mandatory to play the class as is. To me, and I apologize for sounding so rude, it's lazy game design. A class should be fun on its own without RNG. However, when RNG is weaved directly into the very mechanics of a job, someone didn't do a good job with the base job to have to rely on such a frustrating crutch.

This game is supposed to be fun to play with occasionally frustrating moments, not frustrating to play with occasional fun moments.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fantasy9

I doubt those are the true numbers. Only real way to tell is by using parsing software and that is against ToS.

---

Then don't consider the numbers. I know first hand playing MCH that when I play this class, everything dies slower unless I have all cooldowns up. I have played BRD since 1.0 as well as other DPS classes and I feel confident in my comparison with them. Things die slower with MCH, period. I play with my NIN friends and their targets melt compared to mine. During quests it takes double the amount of attacks to kill a quest target than my husband who plays a DRK. You don't need a parser to prove that this class is not on par with other DPS. Just play the class and compare your target kills with others. Again, with cooldowns, this class is fine, but without cooldowns is totally crippled.

Considering MCH feels too similar to BRD(my main job) I haven't started leveling it, unlocked it but haven't messed with it since so I can't compare it to my 52 BRD. If I could sync it to 30 on a test dummy I would.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fantasy9

I doubt those are the true numbers. Only real way to tell is by using parsing software and that is against ToS.

---

Where in the blazes do you think they *got* those numbers?

DRK needs serious buffs as well to fix the clunkiness.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nadirah

Where in the blazes do you think they *got* those numbers?

---

I know they got them from parsing. I was merely pointing out that posters that post threads with dos numbers are either pulling them out of their rear end or admitting to using parsing software which could get them banned and if they are lying about the numbers then they are just complaining.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fantasy9

I know they got them from parsing. I was merely pointing out that posters that post threads with dos numbers are either pulling them out of their rear end or admitting to using parsing software which could get them banned and if they are lying about the numbers then they are just complaining.

---

Or have gotten them from other sites where people use parsers/post parses, such as reddit. You know, like the original post that listed the numbers said.

One last thing, you are complaining about MCH skills, just doing the first job quest I used more skills than I do on my 52 BRD. I use 6 skills on my BRD Windbite/Venomous every 25-30secs, Bloodletter whenever it is up, Misery when it is usable, Straight shot when it procs from heavy shot, and Heavy shot which is the skill that every BRD is forced to spam. So do not whine about having chain skills when there are jobs that don't have that luxury of variety.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fantasy9

So do not whine about having chain skills when there are jobs that don't have that luxury of variety.

---

First of all, I don't think you're reading these posts. No one is complaining about having chainskills, we're complaining about not having them b/c of RNG. Secondly, if you're saying we're complaining about the effort we're putting into MCH not resulting in its output, then point blank BRD does more DPS with the fewer skills it uses than the numerous skills MCH have to use.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, but you post reads more like you're complaining about BRD in comparison to MCH than recognizing that both classes seem to have been mishandled. You don't have to slam complaints people are having about one class to validate your own.

I would just like to mention, that the potencies on WHM might be higher. If MCN don't use buffs and use equivalent gear at level 60, I'd be willing to argue that a WHM might be able to out damage a MCN or come close.

Stone III has a potency of 210
(don't use Aero I on a target dummy with a total potency of only 200)
Aero II has a total potency of 250 over 12 seconds
Aero III has a total potency of 290 over 24 seconds
Fluid Aura has a potency of 150 refreshed every 30 seconds
Assize has a total Potency of 300 refreshed ever 60 seconds

Assuming that a whm refreshes the dots at the exact time the drop and uses fluid aura/assize at the exact time they are available, let's take the lowest common denominator for cooldowns. We can use this to find out a rough estimate of optimal PPS average of a WHM. This comes out to 2 minutes (or 120 seconds). Second let's figure out how many Stone III fillers we'll have. 120 seconds / 3 second GCD (note this is not the actually GCD, however for all intensive purposes we can say that we will get this or MORE stone III's over time) = 40. Then we can subtract the GCD's taken up by Aero III and Aero II (15. See below). So roughly we have 25 or MORE Stone III's over the course of 2 minutes.

Over 120 seconds we have:
2 Assize (300 * 2 = 600 combined potency)
4 Fluid Aura (150 * 4 = 600 combined potency)
5 Aero III (290 * 5 = 1450 combined potency)
10 Aero II (250 * 10 = 2500 combined potency)
25 Stone III's (210 * 25 = 5250 combined potency)

This brings us to a rough (likely higher) total of 10,400 total potency. If we want a rough estimate of PPS, let's divide it by the 120 seconds we did our theory-crafting with. This is approximately 86.67 pps (potency per second).

I have yet to see any math, but I'd argue that without major buffs the pps on MCN might be just higher or equal to WHM. Have you ever thought you might get beaten by a healer in dps? Well, you might just get beat now with how poor MCN's damage looks right now.

~Ocean

Disclaimer: If my math is wrong, I can do some simulations to find the true number of Stone III's over 2 minutes and add in doing the cd's fluid aura and assize at the 2 minute mark (which is not included because they would end up slightly over 2 minutes, 0 minute and 1 minute mark are the only included).

Ocean4, Are you taking into consideration your cast times?

Please let Ocean4 turn out to be incorrect!

Of course. Cast times are less than that of GCD and I was using GCD's (because one can't recast until the GCD is over). I can do heavy simulations to find the true number of Stone III's and include the extra Assize and Fluid aura into the damage calculation if you wish, but note that the PPS will go up not down.

I feel like I am out DPSing a machinist as a scholar in the level 60 dungeon running for law tomestones.

At present with cleric stance I am hitting a consistent 1k per strike + all my DoT's. However the machinist whenever they attack something has staggeringly lower numbers and it is weird. YES THAT IS INCLUDING TURRET.


And if I hit 1k per strike with the 170 potency broil, a WHM with 210 (? It was above 200 I know that) potency stone 3 will hit even more.

guys don't forget brd/mch have the lowest damage on their weapons.

these are the best weapons for mch/brd

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...m/de9454ba13f/

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...m/28af3d6bc50/

65 damage

this is for tanks

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...m/a0edc9771df/

72 damage

this is healers

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...m/ae2adefe648/

100 magical damage

Yeah and the whole damage differences are so bizarre to me. Why compensate healers dps when the comparison to mch there doesn't need to be any compensation? Lol

Healers are doing more damage than we are, and if not healers, look at other classes weapon damage.

I'm tired of this idea that we keep getting punished for having to do more. There needs to be a draw to this class not a deterrent.

I guess I'm one of those MCH that hasn't noticed a problem? I don't parse, and I'm only 57, but I've been running with a pretty set group, with SMN as the other dps, and while my AOE is pretty terrible compared to hers, I think I'm doing well on bosses. On a boss, I play my rotation this way:

Hot Shot -> Blood for Blood and Hawk's Eye -> Lead Shot -> Raging Strikes -> Reload -> Wildfire -> Split Shot -> Slug Shot -> Reassemble -> Rapid Fire -> Clean Shot -> Split Shot -> Slug Shot -> Clean Shot

I weave Gauss Round in as I can, usually starting just after I start my initial round of Shots. I tend to save Quick Reload until I get a natural proc from Split Shot (so that I can get a guaranteed 200 potency Clean Shot) but I've been wondering if it wouldn't be better to change that up. RNG can sometimes not be on my side, but again, I've been able to keep up with our SMN without trouble.

I do miss Second Wind though, so I definitely agree that MCH needs a self heal.

With 9 Energy Drain opener and Ruin 2 -> Broil upgrade, I really think SCH could outDPS MCH, it may barely win because of Raging Strikes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PocketFox

I do miss Second Wind though, so I definitely agree that MCH needs a self heal.

---

This is my main concern. As far as I'm aware, we MCH are the only class that doesn't have any capacity to self heal, (not counting potions obviously). This is fine enough for group stuff, but it means we have to be extra cautious when soloing content. Particularly since the closest thing we have to defensive skills in general are the slow skill from lancer and the heavy/bind and silence/stun skills, which are more of just brief delaying tactics for the most part. Our one real debuff is a measly 5% one that only lasts for 10 seconds. I love this class, but when my only real method of surviving when alone is to run in circles, it can be quite problematic since few pieces of content place enemies where they aren't near adds if you stray even a few feet away......

EDIT: As for what Ocean said above, I'd like to point out that pure DPSing healers can put out a lot of damage if they're using their offensive skills properly. Cleric Stance is a bit over powered in that regard, since a pure MND healer with top end gear will have more raw stats than a pure INT/STR/DEX DPS, (if I'm remembering stat comparisons correctly), and Cleric Stance changes all that to pure damage while giving it a stat buff that doesn't wear off. DPS in general can only surpass it due to use of combos and their own buffs, and even then it's a bit iffy after the DPS burst is over with and everything is on cooldown, while the Healer isn't limited by such in their primary attack skills. The only reason this isn't broken in normal gameplay is because if the Healers stay in Cleric Stance and DPS as much as the DPS themselves do, then people start dropping like flies.....

For everyone arguing about healer's out DPSing MCHs... is that taking into account actually having to heal? Or are you purely going by numbers on what's possible if you just DPS and don't heal?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaedan94

For everyone arguing about healer's out DPSing MCHs... is that taking into account actually having to heal? Or are you purely going by numbers on what's possible if you just DPS and don't heal?

---

either way, that's bad if premades could just take an extra healer who could pop off cleric stance if needed and they'd do more damage...

@Pocketfox,

Just to give you a comparison, PLDs have a higher potency combo than ours and they do not have to rely on RNG for their combos to go off. Not to sound rude, but if you're basing your DPS purely off of when you have cooldowns, you're missing the point. MCH low dps can be hidden or not noticeable in short bursts with cooldowns. It will show when you're fighting a mob that takes more than 2mins to kill in comparison to another DPSer killing the same type of mob. Unless you have someone else running something to show the difference between yours and the SMNs dps, you can't tell the difference of dps on the same mob. I mean absolutely no disrespect to your SMNer friend, but the SMN should pull ahead of you in DPS after you've gone through your cooldowns. If not, they might want to look at their rotation / gear / or SMNers might just get super beefy at lvl 60.

PLD: Fast Blade (150 potency) > Savage Blade (200 potency / 2.5 recast) > Royal Auth (340 potency / 2.5 recast)
That 2.5 recast is similar to my 2.48 GCD. Either way, they don't have to worry about some weird proc nonsense that we do. Pocketfox, it doesn't seem like we're that bad, but once you start hearing potencies of other job classes you realize how weak we are in comparison, then you take into consideration how long it takes us to use our skills doubled with the horrible proc rates (comparing to BRD now who has similar low potencies but not being dependent on procs aside from freebie shots and they also have incredibly faster shots than we do) you begin to realize that just at a glance our job is too weak.

If you really want to see how bad your dps is, get a friend that's great at their job (try to find an endgame raider who you know is highly regarded - yes, great dpsers don't have to be hardcore raiders, but I don't know who you play with aside from the SMN), and stop comparing your opener. Just use your basic cooldown rotation and try to find 2 mobs that takes you more than a minute to kill. See how you two do.

I don't mean to sound like I"m trying to convince you of something that may not be there. I'm only attempting to point out one major flaw this class seems to be struggling with that is easily hidden beneath a couple layers of red herrings that this job contains (complicated gameplay and really pretty numbers during openers - btw, to compare those 'crits' my BLM bro at level 50 was doing 2000+ crits and on BRD at 50 I was doing 1800 crits).

I seriously do not know how SE let this get past testing. It is more of a my fault, but I leveled this to 60 and I enjoyed the hell out of playing the job. Unfortunately, when comparing DPS to other jobs especially BRD, I was a tad devastated that my DPS, at a currently accepted optimal rotation is pulling 100-200 DPS less than BRD, which is a job that is even easier to play and puts more out. The job, while fun, does require much more out of you than BRD and it's reward does not even compare. I know these are suppose to be support classes, but at the same time, their DPS in progression raids is just as important as everyone else's.

Sad truth, people are going to shun MCH till it gets fixed and I 100% do not blame them. This is not something that should wait till 3.1, SE needs to set priorities on fixing both BRD and MCH or at least come out and explain the reasoning behind this. I can't believe SE did not check these jobs to make sure they scale like they did in 2.0. I am going to have to just take a hit on this and level up BRD through dungeons/leves and such.

Basically, this needs immediate attention, SE. No waiting for 2-3 patches and do one simple thing that does not help. It needs a WAR like makeover.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Velhart

Basically, this needs immediate attention, SE. No waiting for 2-3 patches and do one simple thing that does not help. It needs a WAR like makeover.

---

That's my greatest fear, that SE will wait a few patches (a few months to half a year) to adjust this. The easiest thing to do for now is just up all of the potencies. Change split shot to 150, slug shot to 200-240, and cleaner shot to 300-340. At least give us higher potencies so we can be on par with our tanks for goodness sakes. The turret imo was there to compensate our RNG to some degree and lack of dots compared to BRD. If they don't want to up our potencies then up that turret damage to 100 or 120.

Otherwise, I'm a hindrance to my coil group than an active member. I shouldn't be punished for having more to do, I should be rewarded as a player. Also, if those numbers seem ZOMGAH OP, just look at the potencies of other jobs. Sure their gear may not scale like ours, but like a previous poster said, our weapons are the lowest damaging weapons in the game. At this point, if SE wants to argue about our damage, at least give me some cures so I can be more of a help to the party.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LittleArrow

snip

---

In design, the job is great. I think the biggest issue lies in potency and the RNG weapon skills. The thing with MCH is (I am lv.60 with ilvl180 weapon and currently ilvl172) is that while we have good burst damage, we immediately have trouble sustaining the DPS in comparison to other classes and it drops quick when you are hitting Split Shot the entire time and after 8 shots (yes this has happened to me) and I finally get procc'ed for the 2nd combo. This is over the top ridiculous and my entire DPS check is completely depended on the game and not my ability to play the job. No job should ever be designed and balanced where the game decides if you should do good or not. Honestly, they should take out the RNG portion all together, make it a proper 1 > 2 > 3 combo and balance it out where we are the same damage range as BRD. Also as everyone has mentioned, that the job is way more complex and difficult than BRD and gives less in return. It is an insult really, I just can't imagine someone at SE saying this is okay. Anyone who plays the job for a few minutes can already feel how less significant it is to BRD.

Thankfully I have a time window to get BRD to 60. It will be tough, but I need to be able to alternate between the two jobs. I know MCH will -eventually- get fixed, but it is not fair to my fellow static members that we can't push DPS as far as we can because I am determined to keep a job in there that will not put out.It is sad really because I have always wanted a job like this, so hopefully SE will fix this quick so I can play it in raids. Same time, maybe I am overreacting and can make it work in raids depending on how it is set up. I guess we will see soon.

Also, SE, you need to at least -acknowledge- that this there is an issue with BRD and MCH right now. We need to at least know that you see there is a problem.

It makes me incredibly sad that i devoted everything to MCH.. currently 55, and my WHM leveling partners Stone 3 does more DPS than I do

Why is my Paladin friend doing 100+more dps than me in the 55 dungeon?.. sigh... I am following the rotation with GB on and then off after first Clean Shot too.

Figured id just post here as well.. maybe it can get a little more attention.

I'm sorry to say "it is too early" but that is how I truly feel at this point. But I will give my opinion as I have already reached 58MCH.

I do not wish to complain about DPS just yet. I don't use a parser so I can only tell from eyeballing things and watching closely. So far I have seen MNK and NIN do wayyyy more damage than me. Like, approaching double the kind of damage I do. I'm not sure if that's balanced or not, as I like being able to attack from a range. It is expected for melee DPS to outdamage ranged DPS. It makes logical sense. I haven't come across any good DRGs yet (just a bunch of Estinien wanna-bes) but I would assume that good DRGs can outdamage MCH like crazy too. Anecdotally I seem to be outdamaging BRDs, although it's quite possible that I've just been playing with bad players.

Little side story, I strugged on Bismarck with a party of 2 BRDs + 1 MCH. We did not pass the DPS check on the adds and wiped several times and our party disbanded. After requeuing I ended up with the same 2 BRDs and we still had a difficult time. Incidentally I also had a failed party at Dravana that consisted of 3 MCHs (2 of them stayed in GB the entire time while I scratched my head wondering if that was the right thing to do, we ended up running the timer down and failing the duty).

Another anecdote, I just finished leveling SMN to 50 before the expansion came out. I don't like casters in this game, and I had preconceptions that SMN was the laughing stock of the game. I'm sorry to say that actually playing the class and giving it a fair chance only confirmed my suspicions. Because of my poor experience with this I've had more patience for MCH. I don't know what SMN is like post-50, but from my experience 30-50 MCH is better than SMN. You can complain about Split Shot all you want, but I still much prefer it over Ruin (and Ruin2 also!!).

One weird thing about MCH is the 1-2-3 combo, which doesn't exist. It's more like a 2-3 combo when you have ammo. Then when you don't have ammo, it's like "spam 1 and pray for a 2 proc. Then when 2 procs get down on your knees and pray even harder for a 3 proc."

Personally I'm still getting used to Gauss Barrel. I knew there was gonna be problems just like BRD is experiencing problems with WM. To me I find it strange to come across many other MCHs leaving GB on all the time. For me, I have it off way more than I have it on. It's like I don't even want to use it unless Rapid Fire is also up. No one's complained about my damage yet (reached lv58, farthest I've completed is The Vault). In fact I've picked up quite a few commendations which is rare for a DPS. Grenado Shot is super awesome and even Spread Shot is pretty cool with a nice sound effect and has its uses. I only got talked down to once by someone who was surprised that I wasn't spamming Blank and knocking everything away... I'm sorry if people have had bad experiences with this but you shouldn't automatically assume everyone's gonna do it...

No defensive cooldowns is an issue. Not a problem, but an issue. Second Wind is a great cross class skill to have that Machinist is missing. Every good Bard has always used this. It's an issue because if the rest of your party isn't playing well there's nothing you can do about it, whereas on other classes it's possible to pick up the slack and take a few hits. Machinist cannot take any hits outside of unavoidable / party-wide AOE damage. I have never used so many X-Potions in my life until I started playing Machinist. Glad I made room for another hotbar in my UI before the expansion came out! I think it's not a serious problem because MCH has a bunch of tools, personally I have found some of the skills to be super valuable. For example Foot Graze + move out of range and attack a different target is a very useful strategy. You can even Lead Shot them first and then bind them after, and they can still take that DOT damage without losing the bind. Blank + Leg Graze + kite is also extremely effective versus single targets. I have fought monsters that if I stand still they bring me down very low (even to the fear of death occasionally), yet if I fight the same targets and kite them I can defeat them with taking little to no damage at all.

The tools are there, you just gotta know how to use them and when. One of the tools though, Suppressive Fire, isn't that great. Before the game came out, I thought to myself "Wow, MCH has stun, silence, slow, bind. That's so overpowered! Ranged stun? Too godly!" Now that I'm actually playing it, I was disappointed to find Stun + Silence using a shared cooldown. To add insult to injury, Suppressive Fire is melee range only, making it have very limited uses in a party role. Think of it this way, as a ranged class, you're expected to fight at a distance. That means you should be out of range of the stun for most of the fight. That means to cast the stun requires movement to get in range. But your movement is limited by Gauss Barrel, where the more you move, the less damage output you'll have. I find myself using the Silence WAY more simply because I can cast it at a range. It's not cool that the stun shares a cooldown timer AND is melee range... They should pick one or the other, with both I almost never use this in a party.

There are some issues but I'm sticking with MCH for now. I hope to reach 60 and complete the storyline in the next day or two. So far I haven't ran into any problems that made me want to quit playing MCH.

I love the aesthetic of machinists. It sucks that their damage is so low, but hey, gotta play for fun, right?

I'll just raid as something else, until it gets buffs. I don't mind dragging myself down, if I'm having fun(Though, I would say not as many people would enjoy it like I do considering the RNG on the 1-2-3 feels less like a reward and more like a tax). But I don't enjoy the idea of dragging others down in serious content, so I'll stick to monk for that until this gets fixed.

How to fix it without really changing much...? Maybe seperate the gun and the fashionable hip-cartridge aetherometer thingy, and make it offhand equipment like a paladin's shield? Then stuff extra weapon attack on that with other benefits. It's probably just better to buff the class in general though. Like, the numbers are bad, but the biggest problem is that you don't feel like the things you do are rewarding- it feels like they cut off chunks of a kit and made us use cooldowns or RNG to earn the same damage everyone else does.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aerialrave

One more thing I'd like to mention is the Turrets. We never received a "remove Turret" skill that we were promised. This isn't a major problem for Rook that doesn't really draw aggro, but for Bishop I've had many problems in the open world with it attacking and aggroing monsters that I did not want to fight. Currently the best solution to this is to recast the turret as Rook and move it somewhere else. But I would like the option to remove it completely. You can dismiss summons, companions, and minions, so why not turrets too?

---

We do have that actually, you get it when you get your Rook. It just doesn't tell you, for some reason. Check your skill list!

Over time I expect more players will discover ways to play MCH (not to mention AST and DRK) extremely effectively. Although the dev team has obviously tested it out and believes it to be balanced and viable, they will have tons more data coming in which may lead to changes in the future. It looks OK to me, based on what I've seen of players playing it, but who knows?

An aspect of MMOs that I really enjoy is the "players vs. the dev team" - basically all players in the game are trying to figure out what the heck the dev team was thinking and how to exploit it, while the dev team is keeping it all secret. ;-)