Who else likes Wanderer's Minuet?

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Originally Posted by Kaze3434

barrage works with weaponskills, not abilities.

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When under Minuet, Barrage work on one skill.

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Originally Posted by Shinlolz

Also Wanderer's Minuet is terrible. It doesn't increase DPS at all, rather it decreases it. The 20% damage boost, Empyreal Arrow, and Sidewinder doesn't make up for the damage lost by losing auto-attacks.

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20% boost should alone compensate for autoattack (given barrage fix). It's just that bard not yet get used to the new normal of their gameplay.
Empyrial arrow by itself gives significant boost to bard damage (ofcd 240 atttack - what can be better), paired with new barrage - it's a huge burst every minute. dot timer reset is just godly, especially if you can maintain timer reset of fully buffed dots.

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Originally Posted by Mhyr

When under Minuet, Barrage work on one skill.

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There is a line in each skill that states whether it's a "Weaponskill" or an "Ability"

@Felessan

Iron jaws DoT reset doesn't work like that, I've already tested it. Also the 20% and the new abilities really don't cover it. Heavy Shot + AA does more damage than a Heavy Shot while under the effect of Wanderer's Minuet. Empyreal Arrow can be used around every 15 seconds which is about 5 AA so 240 vs 500. Sidewinder can currently be used outside of Wanderer's Minuet (not sure if it's a bug or a tooltip error). Wanderer's Minuet flat out sucks.

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Originally Posted by Shinlolz

@Felessan

Iron jaws DoT reset doesn't work like that, I've already tested it. Also the 20% and the new abilities really don't cover it. Heavy Shot + AA does more damage than a Heavy Shot while under the effect of Wanderer's Minuet. Empyreal Arrow can be used around every 15 seconds which is about 5 AA so 240 vs 500. Sidewinder can currently be used outside of Wanderer's Minuet (not sure if it's a bug or a tooltip error). Wanderer's Minuet flat out sucks.

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^ This is pretty much how it stands right now. The only time I've seen myself parse higher with WM is on dummies where I literarily don't have to move at all.

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Originally Posted by Lyaha

Never really applied it to multiple targets in the first place, takes up time that could be used in killing your current target or using AoE attacks.

Of course, that might have been me playing wrong, feel free to correct me on that.

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The thing about Multi-target DoT application, which really stands out now, is that it will constantly reset BL/RoD. With proper crit setup, this can be a rather decent increase. Additionally, with the change to how DoTs activate being adjusted by Skill Speed now, multi-target+RoD procs can be a rather significant difference if the group over all can handle multi-targets (e.g., tank can hold hate on all, other dps has AOE's and uses them effectively).

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Originally Posted by Shinlolz

@Felessan

Iron jaws DoT reset doesn't work like that, I've already tested it. Also the 20% and the new abilities really don't cover it. Heavy Shot + AA does more damage than a Heavy Shot while under the effect of Wanderer's Minuet. Empyreal Arrow can be used around every 15 seconds which is about 5 AA so 240 vs 500. Sidewinder can currently be used outside of Wanderer's Minuet (not sure if it's a bug or a tooltip error). Wanderer's Minuet flat out sucks.

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eh this is discouraging.

if WM is a dps loss. then whats the point of 50-60 job missions :(

im at lvl57 not really sure how i feel about WM after reading this.

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Originally Posted by Empty-handed

eh this is discouraging.

if WM is a dps loss. then whats the point of 50-60 job missions :(

im at lvl57 not really sure how i feel about WM after reading this.

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Warden's Paean seems to be useless no matter what. Sidewinder is not locked behind WM so that's still an additional oGCD you get. The rest we'll have to see... might be worth having it up for your opener and then dropping it or something. *shrugs*

I don't know if it has been pointed out somewhere here in the OF yet, but BRD is broken right now. You will sometimes be unable to perform any actions after using RoD/BL until the timer is reset. At first I thought it was just servers being laggy, but to my surprise its an actual bug. Hope they fix it fast or we are fucked up on some DPS races when all we can do is run circles for 15secs.

I guess I wasn't imagining it.

Lately, at Lv. 56, I've been noticing that for some reason, enemies take much longer to kill with WM turned on, even if I use Empyreal Arrow, Iron Jaws, buffs, and my chocobo.

So I put it to the test and ran a few dungeons with my friend, who is a Paladin. The results:

1.) WM turned off while doing the opener and rotation I used to beat T13: always rank 2 out of 4 in the aggro charts, regardless of who the other DPS was. Enemies died very quickly.

2.) WM turned on and unleashing every powerful move and buffs on my arsenal: automatically plummet to number 4 in the aggro chart, unable to even out-aggro the healer regardless of what I did or how I switched up my attacks. Oh, and bosses and mobs took longer to kill too.

My conclusion is that at the moment, Wanderer's Minuet is a failed experiment by SE, and keeping it on will result in a DPS loss outside of training dummies.

So, use it for an opener, but otherwise just make use of auto attacks. cool. I wonder what ability is best used with barrage besides empyreal arrow?

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Originally Posted by awesomeuno

So, use it for an opener, but otherwise just make use of auto attacks. cool. I wonder what ability is best used with barrage besides empyreal arrow?

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Not much choice other than Heavy Shot.

What are people's thoughts in using WM with other songs (mostly Ballad and Paeon)?

I always play with Minuet, and I frequently steal aggros from tank in dungeon (lvl 60 brd here), and when the boss dies he comes to me directly
I understand ppl love their auto attack, but triple empyrean arrow is 3x1500 dmg if timed correctly with buff, if you don't have buff up you should use it every 15s, you could also wait a little to use it with a buff if one is up in less than 3s
don't forget than barrage become useless without Empyrean arrow. Triple heavy shot is low potency compared to triple empyrean arrow.

And the burst given by triple empyrean arrow is awesome, can remove 50% of a add HP in dungeons.

For me minuet is a benediction, I love big number and I mained BLM before 2.4 so I don't bother the mini casting (1.5s cast is nothing)

I've not played my bard yet, but I leveled up my black mage, then my summoner before my bard, so I'm used to stay still when I play, so I'm sure I'll love it. I generally don't move unless necessary on my bard. In the other hand, I'm sure those who are used to its mobility, who likes moving around while shooting arrows might not.

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Originally Posted by Empty-handed

eh this is discouraging.

if WM is a dps loss. then whats the point of 50-60 job missions :(

im at lvl57 not really sure how i feel about WM after reading this.

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Yep. I've been hearing the same about MCH, that Gauss Barrel results in a dps loss, because the 20% doesn't make up for the loss of auto-attacks and movement interrupts. It's definitely discouraging and just makes me want to go back to ninja.

Yes, many top tier players have run the numbers, and it's a noticeable DPS loss with WM. only real benefit is the burst of EA+barrage, and the longevity of your TP, since you don't have to refresh WB and VB, only use the IJ

Running some numbers in some of the 60 dungeons, I'm noticing a slight loss using WM. I've currently resorted to only using WM in the opener for the Barrage+Emp burst and Sidewinder, then dropping it shortly after. I think that this could be (not one I agree with..) an intended use of WM, rather than just sitting in the stance the enter fight time - for fights that need moments of very high burst.

*As an additional edit to this, the slight loss is when I feel I am executing well, and the rng of mechanics doesn't target me every single time.

It's also worth noting right now that Sidewinder seems to be bugged? Not sure if this has been addressed already, but it says in the tooltip that that it can only be executed under WM, but I have been able to use it outside of WM as well. Maybe it's only referring to the damage scaling?

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Originally Posted by awesomeuno

So, use it for an opener, but otherwise just make use of auto attacks. cool. I wonder what ability is best used with barrage besides empyreal arrow?

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Actually tbh, even without using WM, our overall low dps is even lower now with barrage change with auto attack. I remember i used tio use all 4 buff and pop barrage and massive auto attack damage.

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Originally Posted by Keedah

It's also worth noting right now that Sidewinder seems to be bugged? Not sure if this has been addressed already, but it says in the tooltip that that it can only be executed under WM, but I have been able to use it outside of WM as well. Maybe it's only referring to the damage scaling?

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It's not bugged. Like half the tooltips of the changed or new skills are poorly translated. The japanese tooltip doesn't require WM to be up for Sidewinder to be used.

maybe that is the idea of WM. pull it up when barrage is available, lol. Honestly, if we could use IJ outside of it, that might be the optimal way to use it

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Originally Posted by awesomeuno

maybe that is the idea of WM. pull it up when barrage is available, lol. Honestly, if we could use IJ outside of it, that might be the optimal way to use it

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Havn't done much testing regarding using it for your opener and then dropping it, but using WM whenever Barrage is up for BAR+EA combo is not worth it. Since WM has a 3s cast time, you only gain 2 x 90p but lose 2 x 150p.

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Originally Posted by SasakiNori

Havn't done much testing regarding using it for your opener and then dropping it, but using WM whenever Barrage is up for BAR+EA combo is not worth it. Since WM has a 3s cast time, you're losing 2 x 150p but gain 2 x 90p.

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im trying to figure out your math. most bards will have a gcd of about 2.42 or less(mine is 2.38). casting WM you lose 1 gcd, not two. also, where did that 90 come from? cant be EA, because that is 240 pot(not sure why you decided to subtract heavy shot pot from EA pot). if you are going to compare the two, it is a 90 pot increase each time.

Here's a bug(?) I noticed last night while cursing this chained in place stance. When using WM, I fire off a Repelling Shot. When I land, all skills are available for use, however, when i try to immediately use, say heavy shot or SS, the cast bar begins but then about half a second in it interrupts. If i wait a second or so after I land from the RS, the charge & shot go off as intended. Am i just trying to get it off too quickly for the server to process or is this a bug?

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Originally Posted by Miah_Dakwhil

Here's a bug(?) I noticed last night while cursing this chained in place stance. When using WM, I fire off a Repelling Shot. When I land, all skills are available for use, however, when i try to immediately use, say heavy shot or SS, the cast bar begins but then about half a second in it interrupts. If i wait a second or so after I land from the RS, the charge & shot go off as intended. Am i just trying to get it off too quickly for the server to process or is this a bug?

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It sounds like the former. Probably a latency thing where you were still "moving" from repelling shot while trying to cast the next skill.

PSA: barrage + heavy shot gives double chance to get a SS proc. only double, as stated in barrage tool tip

*sigh* Contending with the lag monster as well... yay!
What I'm feeling right now LOL - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpE_xMRiCLE

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Originally Posted by Kaze3434

im trying to figure out your math. most bards will have a gcd of about 2.42 or less(mine is 2.38). casting WM you lose 1 gcd, not two. also, where did that 90 come from? cant be EA, because that is 240 pot(not sure why you decided to subtract heavy shot pot from EA pot). if you are going to compare the two, it is a 90 pot increase each time.

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Actually nevermind what I said. @_@

Still not sure if it's worth it though. You're losing a GCD to the cast and delay your next GCD by ~0.5s. Also weaving BAR + EA under WM will essentially take as long as casting another GCD.
The 3 x 90p difference comes from the fact that you'll still be using barrage, just on HS instead of EA.

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Originally Posted by SasakiNori

Actually nevermind what I said. @_@

Still not sure if it's worth it though. You're losing a GCD to the cast and delay your next GCD by ~0.5s. Also weaving BAR + EA under WM will essentially take as long as casting another GCD.
The 3 x 90p difference comes from the fact that you'll still be using barrage, just on HS instead of EA.

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i saw where you were coming from, but lets put this in solids. 2 gcd(using HS)= 300 pot. rounding up from the cast time for WM, that is what is lost. 150x3(barrage)=450 vs 240x3-300=420. a total loss of 30 pot. not a huge amount, but still a loss. again, this is with rounding up.

i quite like it but will take alot of practise gettin used to for me... my only peeve with bard now is theres no volley---> rain of death chain cant spam volley til get the free tp RoD :(

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Originally Posted by Spawnie

i quite like it but will take alot of practise gettin used to for me... my only peeve with bard now is theres no volley---> rain of death chain cant spam volley til get the free tp RoD :(

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The new AOE rotation is throw your dots on everything you can, while RoD continually refreshes

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Originally Posted by awesomeuno

The new AOE rotation is throw your dots on everything you can, while RoD continually refreshes

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This. The moment the patch notes says RoD is tagged to same refresh to BL it is clear cut.

But depending on how fast the trash are going down, multi-dot on 2-3 mobs should be enough while rotating your other skills.

if only sidewinder (or Emp Arrow) worked like bane :P