3.0 Adjustments to Existing Actions for WHM & SCH

Wow! RIP Holy!

Selene'sSelene's spell speed buff get mega needed. From 30% to 3 lol. Guess I'll keep Eos out.

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Originally Posted by Ethos

They are nerfing Flare the same way as Holy... looks like SE finally gave up being able to design dungeons to stop speed runs and just decided to nerf abilities themselves from benefiting on large pulls.

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That's what it seems like. A lot of the changes I see I guess you could say are because of the players. On the other hand maybe they'll reduce some of the trash mobs between bosses and the XP boost we're getting from bosses will increase a bit more. We will see. I don't mind these changes so far. I will adjust, and keep my cures flowing.

... again you guys are just looking at one nerf and ignoring every other thing.

You get a nerfed holy (which was brokenly op) but you get an aoe dot, and aoe heal + damage. Fire 2 is getting buffed. Every jobs are getting new aoe ===> it is actually a GOOD change.

Well we still don't know what's going on with Aero 1/2, Stone 1/2, and Stoneskin 1/2. It'd be nice to know. I bet the damage spells are getting boosted if you look at what happened to Fire 1/2, but I donno. We should not be panicking, though.

I hope you're joking about T3>T2>T1. If you aren't then you don't know how BLM works. Thunder 2 is almost never used, and Thunder 3 is only used at the beginning of a fight and on a Thundercloud proc.

No wonder Y'Shtola commited sudoku when she saw those changes.

http://i.imgur.com/QlnQbCB.jpg

So...

https://i.imgur.com/imcLj3C.jpg

[Removed gripe because I realized it was stupid]

Welp.

That being said, it's not all bad. 600 potency is beefy enough to not be a huge nerf potency-wise on tanks. You can still sort of use Lustrate when you're Clericing it up as well, by de-Cleric Stanceing, popping Lustrate and re-Cleric Stancing. That will only make you lose a tiny bit of time, but you'll be locked for another 5s in that case. Not that I mind that further pre-planning aspect then, but this change to Lustrate just feels uncalled for, lol.

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Originally Posted by Waterdeep

No wonder Y'Shtola commited sudoku when she saw those changes.

http://i.imgur.com/QlnQbCB.jpg

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Honestly I'd commit seppuku if i had to do any sudoku

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Originally Posted by Tranquil

Welp, rest in pieces, in-cleric-stance-maintenance-Lustrateing, 2014-2015.

That being said, it's not all bad. 600 potency is beefy enough to not be a huge nerf potency-wise on tanks. You can still sort of use Lustrate when you're Clericing it up as well, by de-Cleric Stanceing, popping Lustrate and re-Cleric Stancing. That will only make you lose a tiny bit of time, but you'll be locked for another 5s in that case. Not that I mind that further pre-planning aspect then, but this change to Lustrate just feels uncalled for, lol.

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Plus it can now crit and be affected by %healing buffs its a flat out nerf to cleric stance dpsing not really healing

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Originally Posted by Keydah

R.I.P Cleric stance healing and/or emergency button.

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It's only 50 potency weaker than Cure 2, has no cast time and has a chance to crit. It's definitly not dead as an emergency button. Oh, it's also stronger on all non-tanks than it was before.
Edit: As Akashiya mentioned it also gets affected by buffs like Mantra and Illumination now.

Fair enough change on Lustrate.

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Originally Posted by Waterdeep

No wonder Y'Shtola commited sudoku when she saw those changes.

http://i.imgur.com/QlnQbCB.jpg

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just did a bit of calculation and its not THAT bad at the end
http://abload.de/img/ffxiv-holy-nerf6fzf1.jpg
sure thats a huge nerf for large pulls but it could be worse

In this context, Dissipation also doesn't feel as weak I guess. Now we'll have another strong heal in our repertoire which is no more %-tied, but whose power goes up as our power goes up. Dissipation will give us that +20% healing oomph, which will make for some nasty combinations, whether single-target heals or AOEing. Adloquium + this new Lustrate under a 20% boost (more if you rocked Eos and popped Fey Illumination just before Dissipationing) sounds brutal.

Anyway, the career DPSing SCHs (who I consider myself to be part of) will have to adjust a tiny bit, but it will not be too difficult to plan for a Lustrate in the same way as before, just will have to delay the landing of that spell by that minimal delay of depopping Cleric Stance.

In addition to that, the crit-adjusted potency will have Lustrate be beefy on tanks (as said before me), and it will be stronger than before on non-tanks. Surprising, but not bad changes.

SCH loses a lot of it's DPS potential, especially in AoE damage compared to WHM. But as far as healing/Shielding goes, it seems like the class is getting a lot more technical. All skills, taken alone, seem to be lackluster. But if you combine them in different way, you get some really great results. Fey Illumination + Disspation + Adlo + Buff spread is a stupidly strong, group wide shield. If you combine it with the new AoE heal you have something close to a group wide Benediction on shorter cooldown.

I like the changes, it seesm SCH is getting a lot more tactical.

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Originally Posted by deos

just did a bit of calculation and its not THAT bad at the end
http://abload.de/img/ffxiv-holy-nerf6fzf1.jpg
sure thats a huge nerf for large pulls but it could be worse

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It definitely could be worse, but it isn't because of one little nifty skill they put in; Assize. Even using 20 mobs as an example, Assize will hit for 300 potency per enemy, meaning 6000. Assuming the same cast time and everything, Holy will have to be used 4 times before the total potency of 2.5 overtakes the new potency. (16000 vs 15200).

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Originally Posted by tjw

It definitely could be worse, but it isn't because of one little nifty skill they put in; Assize. Even using 20 mobs as an example, Assize will hit for 300 potency per enemy, meaning 6000. Assuming the same cast time and everything, Holy will have to be used 4 times before the total potency of 2.5 overtakes the new potency. (16000 vs 15200).

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300 potency, but 90 sec cd. also, you can either use it for healing OR for dmg (with cleric stance), on that crazy cd... im not sure if im gonna be a fan of this >_>

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Originally Posted by deos

300 potency, but 90 sec cd. also, you can either use it for healing OR for dmg (with cleric stance), on that crazy cd... im not sure if im gonna be a fan of this >_>

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I see it used both ways. In trash and dungeons, I'll definitely use it more for it's DPS qualities, since 300 AoE nuke is VERY powerful.

But in progression and raids, and hard bosses? I'll use it for it's healing purposes as well as it's MP regain. So it can be used both ways.

Also, 90 seconds isn't long. 1.5 Divine Seals cool down. It's not a very long cooldown considering its use.

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Originally Posted by tjw

Also, 90 seconds isn't long. 1.5 Divine Seals cool down. It's not a very long cooldown considering its use.

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true, but long enough to (normally) only beeing able to use it once per trash pull

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Originally Posted by deos

true, but long enough to (normally) only beeing able to use it once per trash pull

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And really that's all it needs. Unless you're some super WHM, the most I've ever Holy-ed in a trash pull was 6-8 times, and even that's pushing it. I did an extensive post in the general discussion boards, but with the new rotations of including Aero III and Assize, the difference on a typical trash mob pull of 6-9 mobs will become minimal.

Someone has info/opinion on that new SCH attack spell?

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Originally Posted by Roxas_Andrade

Someone has info/opinion on that new SCH attack spell?

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I heard it was gonna be a 170-potency single target spell with a 5x relative MP cost of Ruin II, or something like that. Same cast time too.

Whether that is fully accurate or not, I dunno. We'll see soon.

So Graniteskin was deleted. Now we get Quick stoneskin. Gives you a whole whopping -0.5 seconds from the base cast time of stoneskin.
Proshell was replaced with "enhanced" medica. Grants a 20% chance that Medica will cost half MP.

SCH looks really fun for heal intensive fights now....

Eos Healing Buff + Whispering Dawn + Convalesence: 3x Lustrate
Emergency Tactics + Dissipation + Adloquium: 3x Lustrate again

SO MUCH HEALING. Whether it'll be worth losing your fairy heals for the time period, debatable for now. But will it be more fun? Hell yes.

That's like....4200 potency healing total before all the buffs.....

So with 3.0 being available for download the files associated with it have also been made available. As a heads up, it seems it's been determined that White Mage doesn't need Graniteskin anymore.

Dunno if I'm allowed to post this, but here you guys go. I only have the WHM one at the moment.

[Snip]

I forgot holy, heh.

[Snip]

Edit:

Managed to get the SCH ones. I can't find anything about the faeries though.

[Snip]

Credits for the screenshots goes to [Snip].

Edit-edit:

Removed pictures as per request of Yoshi-P over on the stream. :O

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Originally Posted by Verdan

That account's GONE. What'd it say?

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She removed it because it was being taken out of context.

Feels to me like WHM got shafted pretty much. No more 18% Stoneskin, on top of their Protect going global with the mdef, PoM nerfed, Tetragrammaton is not %-based (not surprising with the recent Lustrate I guess), Assize will only either be a good heal/bad DPS spell or the opposite... Well, Asylum looks good and they will have their MP issues fixed with some of this stuff (with Assize mainly), and their damage potential can still be okay, provided they don't miss. But geez.

I totally disagree. White mages still have the most powerful healing spells, and the most powerful damaging spells out of the healers. They've gained an additional way to get MP back, and gained an additional efficiency tool with the medica cost chance. Presence of mind increases spell speed by 25%, which on a class with 3 stacking hots and 3 stacking dots is really crazy. That's not a nerf, that's a buff! They've also retained the only percentage based healing spell, meaning they have the only real emergency heal left. While stoneskin's reduction hurts, the speed change is to allow it to be easier cast in combat as the white mage's shield. I honestly thing the white mage is in the exact same place it was before the expansion: The most powerful healer, but lacking in short and unique buffs for other classes.

Spell Speed must be extremely potent to DoT/HoT for Presence of Mind to receive such a huge nerf (it's 10% less than the original Selene buff FFS =___=).

It is a fact StoneSkin has been nerfed (0.5 sec faster is not a good trade off for 8% extra HP), but in the end....there's no alternative V_V, when tank buster comes, you'll still need to cast that stoneskin, and better you than your co healer (most likely not a WHM) or a Paladin. So although it's a nerf... it does not change the play style in anyway. But I honestly feel the cast time should be reduced to 2 seconds rather than 2.5s, to bring it inline with other shield spells like adlo and the AST ones.

Other than that, between Assize's free Medica + 10% MP regen, Asylum's 800 Potency AoE Heal, Tetragamatron's replacing Cure II during Tank Busters, it seems WHM's MP should be alot more lenient now.

With Stone III (40 potency higher), Aero II (40 potency higher), and Aero III (370 Potency) as BnB dps skills (Aero is lowest potency I think at 200, good to be used during movement/fluid aura now, rather than part of rotation), and the above mentioned better MP consumption, think WHMs can "bruteforce" their way in DPSing now :). (Even if I miss, so be it, my attacks pack a punch, and I have MP to spare).

P/S: Everything above is purely speculation by yours truly.

PPS: For any Scholar "Mains" that complain the "nerf" to Lustrate is the end of Stance "Dancing", newsflash!! Camping your ass in Cleric Stance, DPSing constantly, Lustrate when needed is NOT Stance Dancing.
Be more aware and anticipate when you'll need to turn off CS in order to use Lustrate, it's at most a 0.5 second delay.
Know this, WHMs that have been stance dancing, we need to turn off Cleric Stance, and cast our slow ass heal to heal a target up, a total of approximately 2.5 second delay, compared to your now 0.5 sec delay.

If you feel this "nerf" means "RIP Scholar DPS", I guess WHM dps have been RIPing since the beginning of time huh?

You might be right about the PoM part. We don't really know how strong the new sksp/spsp buffs will be yet, in terms of affecting dots and hots. It is likely to be a good skill still, yes, or otherwise they wouldn't've brought down the percentage that much.

Still, a 0.5s faster Stoneskin is completely useless next to 8% more of someone's HP mitigated - unless mechanics very heavily change in HW. The tanking meta so far has been gravitating towards inconsequental fluff and big tank hits. Also, all the extra mitigation you can have helps when someone has weakness etc., and now we no longer have that extra 8% from the WHM. Coupled by mdef going global on Protect, it stings a lot.

They did get their MP issues fixed, but for off-DPSing, accuracy issues can be very real. I don't really wanna talk shit about WHM, but I was expecting something else. If you're happy, that's great.

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Originally Posted by Tranquil

and they will have their MP issues fixed with some of this stuff (with Assize mainly)

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shroud gives 1000 mana, thats around 20% of max mp (with around 5000 mana) every 120 secs. so 10% every 90 seconds plus 1000 mana every 2 mins...? when you have around 20k mana? don't know how many mana you will actually have, but i don't think the mana problems are solved.

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Originally Posted by Tint

shroud gives 1000 mana, thats around 20% of max mp (with around 5000 mana) every 120 secs. so 10% every 90 seconds plus 1000 mana every 2 mins...? when you have around 20k mana? don't know how many mana you will actually have, but i don't think the mana problems are solved.

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If Shroud follows its current scaling trend, it will be in the 1500s at level 60. I forgot the exact formula, but Lyrica has it for sure.

Also, it was shown that at i170, an AST had roughly 13k MP, IIRC. So yeah.

I'll have to wait really before I add my 2 cents in really.

AFAIK the most disappointing aspects were the changes to stoneskin and it's traits. So this probably will result in SS being considered not important and lead to more tanks just running off as a result. Changes to protect... meh, had to be done otherwise players would prioritize WHM over SCH/AST on progression content.

Tetragrammatron is basically Cure IV, you'd use it like you'd use Cure II.

On the SCH side, Indomitability = Cure III, Lustrate = Cure II.

Keep in mind that the Fairy already acts like a co-healer, so casting Psysick and having the fairy cast embrace on the same target was closer to Cure II already at the cost of Cure I.

The damage chain on Holy is disappointing, because there are AOE-centric fights (eg two Alexandrite map fights that have adds spawn) where Holy was the only option to actually clear those adds. Looks like it gets pushed to Assize. Wait and see I guess.

Oh, I don't think stoneskin won't hurt at all. That's nasty, but I imagine it's part of their design of no longer being able to design a fight where they're sure someone's gonna have the good stoneskin. I'm pretty bummed about that, and I know that's really what you're worried about since it's no longer a unique thing a White Mage brings to a group. But considering Selene's spellspeed buff got taken down to 3%, Scholars losing HP% restore abilities, and the Astrologian's spells that are analogues to ours being weaker than ours I think the white mage is gonna be OK in the role is has now, cause no one's gonna be able to touch it in pure output; unless I've totally misread something.

(the issue with Graniteskin being removed is that Stoneskin can then be cast by someone else, like a scholar or an astrologian or even a paladin)
(Also the Garlean Tools site says that Ast shields can't stack with Scholar shields)

I understand Stoneskin has been nerfed to the ground, but this does not affect WHMs viability in any shape or form.
WHMs will still need to precast stoneskin for tank busters, there's no other replacement for it. (Somebody stated on reddit AST shields does not stack with SCH shields, if they stack, then completely different story.)

In conclusion, yes SS has been nerfed, but the usage stays completely the same, you cast it before a big hit, end of story.

With the way Emergency Tactics is worded, it seems like it'll work with Succor. So Succor + Indomitably = 700 potency of raw curing power within 3.5 seconds. I like this.

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Originally Posted by Verdan

-snip-

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Well, similarly to the "PoM nerf", I suspect part of the reason Selene was brought down so hard was because these changes (to spsp/sksp) will affect the relevant stats in such good ways it had to be balanced. Also, the new 3% Selene Haste will be that - a Haste, so it will also speed up autoattacks. How well that plays out is yet to be seen.

At any rate, what they did to Lustrate isn't really a nerf except in contexts you have stuff like Infirmity up; which I guess will not be often, as WHM is the only job that can reliably deal with that and bypass it now, and even then only with a skill that is on a 5m CD. Both the new insta-heals (for WHM and AST) got potencies to them, and Lustrate also got altered so that it'd follow suit. So yeah.

SCH did get some pretty serious healing throughput uppers in this patch, though. For example, the wording on Emergency Tactics is a bit ambiguous, but it can technically mean Adlo will have crit-synergy even in that pure-healing state, with normal heals being 600 potency and crits being 1350 potency. (Instead of 900). There's also Indomitability, Dissipation and the occassional AOE-Adloquium.

I am not trying to rally against WHMs or anything, and I am interested to see how you guys see it playing out, but on the paper I am a bit surprised with how this is turning out.

Yeah, SCH gets some amazing wide-area burst heal power with proper CD usage.

Naturally WHM will still fill that niche more easily and without such dependence on CDs, but having the option for SCH to do this is pretty cool.

I don't particularly like the SS nerf, but I think we'll have to wait and see. It could be that the (Total HP)/(Heal capability per second) ratio is changing, which could make an 18% SS completely ridiculous (or still not enough, dunno). Either way, I'll reserve final judgement until level 60 dungeons and raids.