Pay for your inventory.

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Originally Posted by Honey_Tailtwitcher

I think $30.00 a month or anything approaching that, is insane. There's no reason a game should rival my internet bill in cost. I've been playing Final fantasy 11 and 14 for a very long time, beta tested both - and I would not be willing to pay that much. I'll switch to another game, that's not affordable or justifiable in my opinion.

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Why would you suddenly be paying $30 a month? You have no obligation to buy all available retainer slots, nor will they be remotely necessary.

Also, where are you getting $30 internet? I couldn't get two Dixie cups and a string for that here.

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Originally Posted by Honey_Tailtwitcher

I think $30.00 a month or anything approaching that, is insane. There's no reason a game should rival my internet bill in cost. I've been playing Final fantasy 11 and 14 for a very long time, beta tested both - and I would not be willing to pay that much. I'll switch to another game, that's not affordable or justifiable in my opinion.

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You are aware you nobody (has* to buy the maximum amount of retainers if they don't want to right?

A friend of mine mentioned that the Japanese notes say we get a 3rd free one in 3.0. can anyone confirm?

Gee I wish I had your I-net bill... >> Mine of 98$ is the cheapest I can get. Oo

You don't have to buy all 8 ... or is it 6 of them? But I suppose the principle behind it all rubs people wrong all the same. This I can respect.

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Originally Posted by Honey_Tailtwitcher

I think $30.00 a month or anything approaching that, is insane. There's no reason a game should rival my internet bill in cost. I've been playing Final fantasy 11 and 14 for a very long time, beta tested both - and I would not be willing to pay that much. I'll switch to another game, that's not affordable or justifiable in my opinion.

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Nobody's forcing you to buy extra retainers.

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Originally Posted by Vejjiegirl

A friend of mine mentioned that the Japanese notes say we get a 3rd free one in 3.0. can anyone confirm?

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Nope. Japanese text said "3 or more", there's a post earlier in the thread that cleared that up. Sorry. :(

Above all else the paid retainer system is extremely unfriendly to people who pay with time cards, locking us out of the use of it entirely if we don't want to throw a credit card on our account. More than anything else that's my biggest disappointment with the way they're handling things. One extra retainer isn't that much to ask for. With all 50s my armory space is becoming increasingly limited, and with all the new class-specific gear being added in 3.0 it's going to become even tighter. I'm not a hoarder. I'm very vigilant about removing glamour gear that I'm not going to use anymore, even gear that comes from Coil and I'll have a difficult time obtaining again. Please consider adding a third retainer for free!

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Originally Posted by Tsunenori

Above all else the paid retainer system is extremely unfriendly to people who pay with time cards, locking us out of the use of it entirely if we don't want to throw a credit card on our account. More than anything else that's my biggest disappointment with the way they're handling things. One extra retainer isn't that much to ask for. With all 50s my armory space is becoming increasingly limited, and with all the new class-specific gear being added in 3.0 it's going to become even tighter. I'm not a hoarder. I'm very vigilant about removing glamour gear that I'm not going to use anymore, even gear that comes from Coil and I'll have a difficult time obtaining again. Please consider adding a third retainer for free!

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This is a fair reason against the paid service. Then again, this comes from SE's FFXIV payment systems. The same system that has all my ways to pay my sub locked out save through Crysta. >>

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Originally Posted by Cyrus-Wallace

The problem is, we have so many classes and now we're getting 3 more jobs. So you have all the gear for them + glamour items you store/change. The amount of space that requires both crafting/gathering classes is really high. Just to mention a few things. I don't think a lot of people here use the FC chest to store their personal goods though.

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If you play 22 jobs then you still have 3 extra spaces in each armory chest slot, and unless you're running 5 different glamour sets for each class including your crafting and gathering classes then you really shouldn't have a problem in terms of space in your retainer's inventory. Instead of hoarding items senselessly maybe it would be in your best interest to take all of the gear you would never use as glamour anymore and get rid of it. If you had a unique set of non-jewelry glamours for every class then you would have 132 slots taken up and an additional 15 for potential off-hand glamours. This means that you have only 147 slots being taken up even at that extreme. As for end-game crafting, an economical player knows that materials in excess is a waste, and it is better not to hoard items that are easily bought and sold on the market board. I'm certain though that most players with full level 50s have "favorite" classes and classes that they really only play during the first few weeks that new gear comes out (if even that). I'm sure that if you enjoy the game enough that you have more than one glamour set to all of your classes, then you won't complain paying an extra $2.00 per retainer every 30 days (~$24 per year!) and support SE in further developing a game you love so much.

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Originally Posted by TitaniaZero

This is a fair reason against the paid service. Then again, this comes from SE's FFXIV payment systems. The same system that has all my ways to pay my sub locked out save through Crysta. >>

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And to be fair to them, I could pay my subscription through Crysta and hire retainers that way. I do however think that it's an unnecessary extra step to go purchase a separate card to redeem a virtual currency only usable through Square-Enix and that can't be transferred to any other payment system, where unused Crysta (unspent money) will rot away in my account unless I buy more of it. It's locking me into a secondary currency that shouldn't even be necessary in the first place.

But that's on me. I could fix my problem with Crysta, and maybe someday I'll get fed up enough and do it. I just don't think I should have to.

Edit: fixed redundancy.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

Why would you suddenly be paying $30 a month? You have no obligation to buy all available retainer slots, nor will they be remotely necessary.

Also, where are you getting $30 internet? I couldn't get two Dixie cups and a string for that here.

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No they aren't necessary and there's no obligation, but I think a lot of players see it as a slap in the face and/or a bit P2W.

Consider this: the amount of things a person with only 2 retainers can sell, compared to that of someone with 8. Combine this with ventures, and storage space (which many people have been complaining about for a while) and its a bit P2W.

Think of the bigger scale.

We said this back when paid retainers first came out. When simple minions and mounts came out. Then dyes. Now they are literally doubling the amount of inventory space currently available by retainers (by 700) - but we have to pay.

We asked then. I'll ask now. What is next?

It wouldn't be so bad if this was a free patch but with the additional cost of Heavensward I expected at least 1 free retainer or some kind of meaningful increase to inventory space. Had I know this I would have never pre-ordered. Very rarely do I complain about the cash shop but this may be pushing it too far.

To the people saying you don't need that many slots! I have every crafter level 50. And 40 slots to sell is not enough for 1 crafter to sell, little alone 8 of them. Anyone saying you don't need all that space must not be a crafter!

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Originally Posted by VoltaAsura

No they aren't necessary and there's no obligation, but I think a lot of players see it as a slap in the face and/or a bit P2W.

We asked then. I'll ask now. What is next?

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Yeap, gotta agree with this sentiment. This is definitely getting into the territory of Pay2Win. I already have a lot of items filling up my inventory, and I haven't even started seriously crafting yet. if I want to craft, I'm going to -have- to buy a third retainer to handle all my armor and items.


The inventory limits in this game are absurd. There is simply no way to handle all the items we have. There is no easy way of storing items for glamor, and there is likewise no easy way of sorting your inventory if you're a multi-classer. For those who play just one role or likewise two roles / two jobs, this isn't too bad. But when you are an omni-60 (Working on gathering next!) You start to feel the poor constraints of the system and those retainers start to look more and more attractive.

SE needs to really do more for the players and stop asking for us to fill their pockets so much. They already recieve our monthly fee. Please stop putting things behind additional out-of-game paywalls.

SERIOUSLY!?

This comes as close to pay-to-win as possible, and if you don't think so, just consider the following:

• One retainer has an inventory size of 175 - with the two we can have for free, we have an additional 350 slots. Pay for 6 more and you'll have a total of 1400 inventory slots. With the amount of items already in game, with the glamour system we have, with the crafting/gathering system we have, with the number of upcoming gear being so high the patch notes won't even list it... This could as well go straight in the definition of unfair.
• One retainer can have 20 items up for sale - 40 for the two we can have for free. Pay for 6 more and you can have a total of 160 items up for sale at once. That's literally paying to win, considering how some people can already play the market - now they'll be able to single-handedly destroy economies (or parts of it at the very least), just because they shell out more bucks than some others. Is that a fair advantage they should have??
• Retainer ventures. An additional six times the chance of obtaining rare (many otherwise unobtainable!) items, again, just because some decide to pay more money than others. In a game that's already subscription based, how on earth is that alright??

And still they don't even seem to consider a glamour log. And still they're bullshitting us (sorry not sorry, but after this it's clearer than daylight to see) about how difficult it is to increase our inventory because of its size and the stress it puts on the servers.

I know I'm just person, but really, I am upset beyond words about this.

Honestly, the thing I was most looking forward to in HW was more inventory space. I'm a completionist and a collector. That's what I consider to be fun. I know not everyone is a completionist or a collector. That's totally irrelevant. I was hoping for at least some token extra inventory space - one free retainer, or three additional armory chest spaces per category. It didn't have to be much. Right now, there is barely enough main hand space to switch between all 24 jobs without stopping at a retainer to swap out main hands. With only 25 spots, this means you can only have an alternate weapon (such as for PvP) for a single job at a time.

I am really disappointed by this decision because SE is showing us that they can handle more inventory space for us, they just don't want to (without us forking over a much higher monthly fee). [comment on SE's income sources deleted in an attempt to avoid another ban], I'd think they could afford to give us at least one more retainer for free, or even just those 30 more armory chest spaces to offset the new jobs. Or, they could just let us mail our alts items so we can use mules with less hassle - that wouldn't even require any more server space than is already allocated. Of course, equipment is character bound, so you still couldn't collect one of every armor piece for glamour/completionism...

As much as this upsets me, of course, I'm not going to rage quit over it. I'm not canceling my subscription or my pre-order. I'm trying to decide how i'm going to handle the lack of inventory space. This kills a lot of my drive to play as much as I do, so I'll certainly play less after the initial excitement of 3.0 fades (that's not a threat or a whine, just a fact). The sensible decision would be to find an MMO that's more collector/completionist-friendly (this one seemed perfect because of the Armory system, but that didn't hold up), but, i'm not a terribly sensible person and I do like this game otherwise. I can either stop collecting equipment entirely (I have over 175 equipment items stored on retainers for glamours, plus a completely full armory chest), which would let me also cancel my third retainer. It would also make me run content less since I'd have no drive to collect gear from it, leading to me losing interest in the game much faster since there's less to do. Or, I can cancel my third retainer and instead upgrade my subscription so I can have 8 characters per server instead of 1. I can then use the other character slots to mule items and sell them on the MB in mass quantities. This wouldn't be an insurmountable hassle since my wife also plays and can bounce items for me, but it's still quite the hassle. My last option, which I really don't like, is to choose 2-3 classes to keep and drop all equipment for all other classes. That'll free up tons of space and still let me collect, but... it would cultivate the collector in me while killing the completionist.

I really don't like any of those options. Man, all my floon for the expansion just went poof =\ What's the point of cool new classes and gear (to a collector and a completionist) if you can't collect it all?

Really, for me, I guess this decision is a moot point now anyway. I'm going to be a mother in four months. This decision just leads me to quit the game when that happens rather than try to juggle MMOing with an infant. So, I guess this decision is triggering not an instant rage quit, but a slow, four month long "eh" quit.

Meh. Back to jRPGs for me, I guess.

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Originally Posted by BreathlessTao

This comes as close to pay-to-win as possible, and if you don't think so, just consider the following:

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none of that is p2w. unless they put the best battle/crafter/gatherer gear behind the cash shop and no other way to obtain it, it won't be p2w.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

none of that is p2w. unless they put the best battle/crafter/gatherer gear behind the cash shop and no other way to obtain it, it won't be p2w.

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None of that is p2w for you, because you apparently don't care about anything else than BiS for everything. Newsflash: that's not what the game is about for everyone.

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Originally Posted by Vejjiegirl

Not only that, but with all 8 retainers you can now sell up to 160 Items at once, where a Player without extra retainer service and just a regular sub can only sell 40 things at once.

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Speaking as a master crafter, I have enough trouble keeping my 4 retainers fully stocked as it is. I wouldn't be buying more retainers for this reason at all.

I may get a 5th one because I've run out of closet space on my gear retainer, but that's just me being a fashionista. I don't need that gear. I just have it to feel pretty.

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Originally Posted by Catwho

Speaking as a master crafter, I have enough trouble keeping my 4 retainers fully stocked as it is. I wouldn't be buying more retainers for this reason at all.

I may get a 5th one because I've run out of closet space on my gear retainer, but that's just me being a fashionista. I don't need that gear. I just have it to feel pretty.

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"Master crafters" produce small amounts of high end items.

People who actually know how to get the real money out of the MB produce lots of lower-to-middle end, high demand items.

Some people will use all retainers they can get and be paying $30 a month to play.

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Originally Posted by Ashgarth

So, after talking dozens of times in interviews and Q&A about inventory problems with all the new recipe materials, gear and jobs in 3.0 the solutions is...

You can pay more retainers.

So it's impossible to adds a few more spaces to the armoury chest or increase the retainer capacity but it seems that allowing us to basically pay twice as much per month is completely doable.

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Well, the aspect I don't like is that it's a monthly service, not a one-time service. This is freemium-grade nonsense targeted at hoarders. SE needs to provide other kinds of storage options (eg closets/bags) that have nothing to do with the retainer that simply aren't accessible without being in it's own instance (inn, room in a house, etc.)

Like the Glamour system is one reason why people keep otherwise-unusable items around.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

none of that is p2w. unless they put the best battle/crafter/gatherer gear behind the cash shop and no other way to obtain it, it won't be p2w.

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This is near P2W as they CAN get.
Because people can make more and have more than the other person because they can gain more retainers.
It's unfair that we have so little space and we've been hootin' about it for so long so their first thoughts are
"Hey, let's add 3 more into friggin Mog Station." You get tired of them puttin' shxt into that store.
F2P games add inventory banks all the time in CS. They shouldn't be doin' it here. Now I was fine when they originally added them there because I didn't have much back then
but with this plethora of new items we're getting...Where's the space? There is none. We got budgets and crap to think about in rl. Just tired of the cash grab here.
Is 1 more extra free retainer that much to ask? Unless there's some grave typo here I'm upset as well.

A friend of mine I mentioned this too actually thought of a interesting concept for it (and they don't even play lol). If SE doesn't want to hand out inventory space that easily, give a free retainer after X amount of months of sub time. That way people who are playing longer and have more stuff piled up will have the room. Meanwhile those who -must have- the extra retainers ahead of time can pay for them until their sub time catches up. Obviously not a perfect solution but I thought it sounded pretty good.

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Originally Posted by Sho86

A friend of mine I mentioned this too actually thought of a interesting concept for it (and they don't even play lol). If SE doesn't want to hand out inventory space that easily, give a free retainer after X amount of months of sub time. That way people who are playing longer and have more stuff piled up will have the room. Meanwhile those who -must have- the extra retainers ahead of time can pay for them until their sub time catches up. Obviously not a perfect solution but I thought it sounded pretty good.

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Would rather have this than SOME of the veteran fluff, that's for sure. Some of it's nice, but those Cascadier thingies...I never needed those.

2 extra retainers were not that bad, made the sub a little more expensive but thats ok, now, 6 extra..? Sub to XIV is near the price of a good season release game on offer. Not only bad, having 8 retainers to play on the markets is any crafter`s wet dream to abuse the markets, imagine being able to place 160 items to sell arround, not only that, but have 8 shard/crystal and now probably cluster slaves to send on... Honestly, 8 retainers are terribly imba.

This is not the solution for the inventory issue this game is having, and SE has to understand that. We need a proper armory system, collectible, etc, system.

I want clarification....
I wish that this isn't true.

I'd probably pay for a couple more if it means I can increase crystal and food ingredient yield.

this is potentially the most twisted take on a pay system for vanity items >.> the vanity items are free....the space to store them is not. :P while i personally don't care about hoarding massive amounts of glamour items, if anything i go clear items outta my retainers im unlikely using for glamour frequently, I do feel this approach means that a solution to potential glamour issues in the future will always be met with "more retainers for sale".

Would like something along the lines of spiritbond item to 100% "break" it down to learn it and have it placed on your "glamour catalog", or can still use the current system.

Edit: I think the ventures system does a good job of keeping them "tame", as someone pointed out it would take asinine amounts of time to regularly cycle them all. the market board thing i guess it can be an advantage, but again to really milk it would require a tremendous time investment. with that said, if they start to sell ventures for crysta imma choke a b^&%#! <.<

Simple as it is.

This game has a serious item managment issue, and they, instead of fixing it properly, are trying to get money out of it. This one of the F2P market stuff im paying a sub for to evade.

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Originally Posted by VoltaAsura

What is next?

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I really don't think it's P2W. You don't get any kind of stat boosts besides more space to dump junk you should probably be Converting or Desynthing anyway. It's significantly easier to get tome gear than build up the insane amounts of gil required to buy crafted gear. It's a great tool for crafters and gatherers who want to Sell More Things.

Just give us the ability to mail items to our alternate characters. You charge us extra for allowing us to have more than one character on a server, but you don't let us exchange mail between them. That's not cool, less so when it starts to look like you don't want to reduce our reliance on retainer storage.

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Originally Posted by DevilsDontFly

They should add one free retainer with the expansion. That way, if you have two, you gain an extra one (free) and the ones that already pay for two retainers (totalizing 5 retainers) would be able to subscribe for 3 extra ones. I think this would solve things a little since I see no reason for you to have more than 5 retainers unless you're an omnicrafter or a collector.

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This so much. Every expansion should offer free alternatives to increasing your inventory in some manner. (Gobby Bag Quests in FFXI anyone?)
This is a huge cash grab and is almost as shameful as the cash shop.

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Originally Posted by Gyson

Just give us the ability to mail items to our alternate characters. You charge us extra for allowing us to have more than one character on a server, but you don't let us exchange mail between them. That's not cool, less so when it starts to look like you don't want to reduce our reliance on retainer storage.

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Now this I totally agree with. Mailing between alts should be a simple thing. Even better, you should be able to even have a common vault that you can use to transfer items between characters easily. THAT would be super-useful.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

Simple as it is.

This game has a serious item managment issue, and they, instead of fixing it properly, are trying to get money out of it. This one of the F2P market stuff im paying a sub for to evade.

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^ To sum it up.

Why don't SE make the extra Retainer hiring using ingame Gil?
More realistic...

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Originally Posted by EinherjarLucian

Now this I totally agree with. Mailing between alts should be a simple thing. Even better, you should be able to even have a common vault that you can use to transfer items between characters easily. THAT would be super-useful.

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It's a good idea in retrospect but it could probably be easily abused by RMTs prompting them to just make alts and transfer gil around...

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Originally Posted by Mhikail

This is near P2W as they CAN get.
Because people can make more and have more than the other person because they can gain more retainers.
It's unfair that we have so little space and we've been hootin' about it for so long so their first thoughts are
"Hey, let's add 3 more into friggin Mog Station." You get tired of them puttin' shxt into that store.
F2P games add inventory banks all the time in CS. They shouldn't be doin' it here. Now I was fine when they originally added them there because I didn't have much back then

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Except having that much space doesn't give you any advantage over anyone else, unless you're a pack rat.

If you're a serious crafter/trader and NOT a pack rat, then 2 retainers is plenty to be just as competitive as someone with 8 retainers. The only benefit to 8 retainers (or more than 2) is for collectors who don't like to throw things away.

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Originally Posted by BreathlessTao

[*]One retainer has an inventory size of 175 - with the two we can have for free, we have an additional 350 slots. Pay for 6 more and you'll have a total of 1400 inventory slots. With the amount of items already in game, with the glamour system we have, with the crafting/gathering system we have, with the number of upcoming gear being so high the patch notes won't even list it... This could as well go straight in the definition of unfair.

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In no way, shape, or form does any sane person need 1400 inventory slots of bank space. Having one extra glamour set for EVERY class (Weapon, Head, Chest, Legs, Feet, and Off-hand) results in the use of 147 inventory slots. Unless you enjoy keeping multiple dye versions of the exact same piece of gear, there is absolutely no way that you would ever need that much space, and neither does it give you any advantage over another player just because you happen to have every boot model in the game for your White Mage on hand at any time.

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Originally Posted by BreathlessTao

[*]One retainer can have 20 items up for sale - 40 for the two we can have for free. Pay for 6 more and you can have a total of 160 items up for sale at once. That's literally paying to win, considering how some people can already play the market - now they'll be able to single-handedly destroy economies (or parts of it at the very least), just because they shell out more bucks than some others. Is that a fair advantage they should have??

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The problem with this logic is that anyone can make 9 character alts in their own little free company and get 18 more retainers, totaling up to 360 more items for sale at once without paying a single dime. If it hasn't already broken the market board then it won't when people can do it on a single character. If anything, you're paying for the "convenience" of not having to log in & out to check your stalls.

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Originally Posted by BreathlessTao

[*]Retainer ventures. An additional six times the chance of obtaining rare (many otherwise unobtainable!) items, again, just because some decide to pay more money than others. In a game that's already subscription based, how on earth is that alright??

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You do realize you have to gear, level, and manage all of those retainers, right? Not only is this a massive undertaking in it's own right, but retainers NEVER return with relevant gear or items, and once again only benefits players who are trying desperately to get rare glamour gear like the unobtainables you mentioned. Considering that you're still severely limited by your Venture income, this doesn't make it pay to win in the slightest. Just because you "play different" doesn't mean you can go crying out on the forums and accuse a perfectly fine cash shop model of being pay to win. If you want a good example of "pay to win" look at Air Mech Arena on the PS4 where it's a competitive game that has it's best items behind a pay wall.

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Originally Posted by BreathlessTao

And still they don't even seem to consider a glamour log. And still they're bullshitting us (sorry not sorry, but after this it's clearer than daylight to see) about how difficult it is to increase our inventory because of its size and the stress it puts on the servers.

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You do realize that in order to implement such a system that they'd have to completely reprogram the way that the game works, right? Not to mention the dire effects it could have on the economy since they haven't been keeping track of the gear you're putting on up until now, so you'd see a spike in old content items that have no business being so pricey.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan94

Except having that much space doesn't give you any advantage over anyone else, unless you're a pack rat.

If you're a serious crafter/trader and NOT a pack rat, then 2 retainers is plenty to be just as competitive as someone with 8 retainers. The only benefit to 8 retainers (or more than 2) is for collectors who don't like to throw things away.

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The main issues are more the fact you can send them out on ventures, and the fact they can each sell things.

I do think these concerns have merit... but (as the post above alludes to), people who were really intent on doing this already could by having two service accounts, and/or by creating an FC for them and their alts. It's just less convenient since you have to move things around, and you have to level your alts to the early-20s to unlock retainers. So it's probably the case that the things people are worried about were already happening, and this change just made it a bit easier for "the average person".

I do think there need to be better systems put in place to address inventory, particularly as this patch introduces a whole ton of new items.