So who is NOT getting Heavensward?!

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Originally Posted by AzraelX

yea I WAS going to do when i started playing in jan. I heard about HW- and my inital reaction was no way im paying $40 for expansion that may or may not be good. then i started playing more and see how much love,content,and detail the devs put into 2.0 and how much is in 3.0 i changed my mind.

keep in mind when 3.0 was 1st launched it was stated to be LESS than 2.0- now seems liek the areas got larger and 50 hours of gameplay. - seems like they stepped up. I support quality.

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when was HW stated to be less than 2.0? i know at least in the unboxing video YP stated that it was at least as big as 2.0.

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Originally Posted by Cian

when was HW stated to be less than 2.0? i know at least in the unboxing video YP stated that it was at least as big as 2.0.

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I think it was either hearsay or very earlier in development

I believe a big reason HW got pushed back b/c they kept adding stuff.

I really didn't tihnk HW would beas big as it is now.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

Well, the only reason I pre-ordered was because I want the pre-order bonuses. If not for that, I'd probably hold off quite a while before getting the expansion, like maybe get it in six months or a year if I'm still actively playing at that point. There's far too much of ARR left to want all that additional content now.r I'd rather finish the content we've already got before buying anothe whole set of it. I figure it'll likely take another year or so to finish all the level 50 content, maybe longer if I also finish leveling all my jobs as I've been planning to. (Then again, I might decide I want to start up the Au Ra alt I have in mind, and kick off that part of the expansion sooner. In any case though, I'm not likely to be heading anywhere near Ishgard any time soon.)

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So you buy a $50+ expansion for the a hat and minion, and the race but not play the content that can you can enter at any time [After the MSQ]
Why not? You already bought it. Join the fun! The more things the better.
You act like the previous content will go poof. o_o

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Originally Posted by Mhikail

So you buy a $50+ expansion for the a hat and minion, and the race but not play the content that can you can enter at any time [After the MSQ]
Why not? You already bought it. Join the fun! The more things the better.

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Oh, I expect I'll get there eventually. It's just that there's so much left to do in the game I've already got, and I like to take my time and see everything. Both ARR and HW offer a lot of content. I just don't see the point in skipping the former (or major chunks of it at any rate) in order to favor the later instead. Once I've pretty well finished everything there is to do in ARR, that's when I'll be looking for more content.

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Originally Posted by Mhikail

You act like the previous content will go poof. o_o

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More like it may as well go poof if I don't bother playing it.

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Originally Posted by Ortamus

I had it pre-ordered, then cancelled it.

The reason being I had enough of the game and all of the fun vanished. Doing the same things over and over for stuff that didn't exist began to kill my mind....and I was getting fat from playing too much.

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Dude you can make a priority, I workout 5 times a week and average 2 hours each sessions.
I got home at 7pm and then straight to GYM, after that I can play my games or do other thing.

My priority is Career, Fitness & others.

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Originally Posted by Clavaat

I just want off the gear treadmill. ... It's just too much for me to feel like "Well, here we go again, tomes tomes tomes raid raid raid," while all of a sudden ignoring what I've done before. ...

I'm happy for anyone that will still enjoy it, but for me, personally that's been the biggest reason I just can't get excited.

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I tend to deal with this by not doing the treadmill.
I have everything at level 50 and instead of grinding everything i just take a casual approach to enjoying content when i feel like it.
My Bard is my main so i can grind that a little if i want to be geared enough for some of the higher content, but i never get too caught up in the maxing.

For this reason the open world content is very important to me, and i do hope the expansion does more with that.
I'd like for there to be some really tough to reach gathering nodes that you have to work around dangerous monsters in deep areas to find.

I play for the story, as with every FF. I wont get Heavensward until I finish up 2.0's MSQ. Im actually replaying it from the beginning, reading all the text and whatnot. The gear grind had me rushing through it the past year.

Just not till I finish the main story.

http://strawpoll.me/4646306

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Originally Posted by Airget

Ya and before anyone chimes in, lv cap restrictions have always been a restriction on MMO's in which expansions have increased a level limit. So don't say that SE is being unfair to not allow people in 2.0 to level up to 60 without 3.0 because a lot of expansion pack MMOs do that.

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No, we can still say it's unfair, because it is. I've played a lot of MMO's and none of them have had level restrictions gated behind the expansion. Their reasoning is that level 50 dungeons might become more efficient for experience, which tells me that the higher level dungeons probably won't be giving us all that much or they'll be twice as long for roughly the same gains.

Honestly, the whole XP shenanigans regarding level 60 has really coloured my expectations of the expansion. I'm a strong advocate that expansions should do precisely what they intend, that is to expand on the world, not restrict it. I'm fine with areas you can't access immediately, I'm fine with content that's otherwise unplayable without having the expansion. But when you give everyone access to something (like levelling to 50), then you should do precisely that. A level playing field for all. That means giving ARR players an equal means to hit level 60 through existing content.

Honestly, this stinks of holding players to ransom. It's practically forcing them to get the expansion just to continue their jobs. That's something I can never support, and it's a decision which needs to be reversed before we get in too deep for them to change it. For full disclosure's sake, I do have pre-order access and have already purchased the expansion. This doesn't affect me, but I'll be damned before I support SE screwing over ARR players.

What? But new job skills come with leveling up. Do you think people should get those without buying the expansion, too?

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

No, we can still say it's unfair, because it is. I've played a lot of MMO's and none of them have had level restrictions gated behind the expansion..

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Which P2P MMOs have you played that don't gate the new level cap behind an expansion?

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Originally Posted by Colorful

Which P2P MMOs have you played that don't gate the new level cap behind an expansion?

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Let me reverse that question by asking you which MMO's you've played which have? Seriously, I've never heard of a game which raises the level cap past it's current level then decides not to allow people in the earlier areas to level up. Experience is experience, no matter where it's earned. There's literally no reason why the level 50 dungeons shouldn't provide experience other than out of spite for not buying the expansion.

Now, if the entire level 60 had been gated off through an Ishgard quest, maybe it would be different. Incidentally, FFXI didn't gate level rises behind expansions either. Once the level cap was raised, the quest was available to anyone, expansion or not. The expansions added plenty of nice areas to get XP faster, sure, but you could still earn XP at the maximum level in earlier zones.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

No, we can still say it's unfair, because it is. I've played a lot of MMO's and none of them have had level restrictions gated behind the expansion. Their reasoning is that level 50 dungeons might become more efficient for experience, which tells me that the higher level dungeons probably won't be giving us all that much or they'll be twice as long for roughly the same gains.

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it's because the lvl 50 plus dungeons we won't grossly out gear.

lvling 50 plus would turn into lvling 44 plus, basically even faster DD room pulls.

brayflox/wp would be 100% the best exp for how fast you could speed run for exp.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

Let me reverse that question by asking you which MMO's you've played which have?

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World of Warcraft and Star Wars the Old Republic. Only P2P MMOs I've played, and SWTOR is F2P now but I've heard it still requires you to pay for the expansion in order to level up. FFXIV is heavily inspired by WoW, and follows the same model. The expansion content is all that really matters once it's out, 2.x content is dated at that point. It's not the endgame, it doesn't lose all of its value but it's not the main game anymore. Most efforts will be spent on 3.x patches, which will be available to expansion owners only.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

Let me reverse that question by asking you which MMO's you've played which have?

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World of Warcraft. The level cap raise is mentioned in the list of things you get with the expansion.

Edit. Basically ARR is now over and no new content is going to be added to it, if it follows WoW's model. Patches will be for people who bought Heavensward even if stuff is located in the old world. Personally I think 2 years worth of content is pretty good for any game and well worth the money.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

Now, if the entire level 60 had been gated off through an Ishgard quest, maybe it would be different. Incidentally, FFXI didn't gate level rises behind expansions either. Once the level cap was raised, the quest was available to anyone, expansion or not. The expansions added plenty of nice areas to get XP faster, sure, but you could still earn XP at the maximum level in earlier zones.

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If we could get exp in ARR zones to get to 50, people would steamroll WP and AK HM for exp, because people will always take the easiest route to something. If you have a good group, you can completely 100% clear AK HM in about 15-20 minutes. They kinda want people to actually do all the new content they're adding ...

Heavensward on Brazilian Steam having a price hike of 40% over the US edition, while we're all locked on steam if we got the base game there.

https://steamdb.info/app/359480/

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...br_is_madness/

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

it's because the lvl 50 plus dungeons we won't grossly out gear.

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That's not an excuse for poor design choices. If they've designed the experience points system so that playing those 'higher level dungeons' proves less enticing than lower level ones, then that was their intent. They could simply provide more experience in those higher level dungeons, and if they have any sense they will, since level 100+ mobs should be giving crazy XP compared to the level 50 weaklings we used to face back when we still earned it.

I'm sorry, but I won't be moved on this. It's simply unfair to people who can't afford the expansion, and downright annoying for those of us who do older content with no gains. All this will do is eliminate any reason to run level 50 content for existing players and relegate new and existing players to begging for help because they can't find a tank or a healer. With new content, and higher level gear on the horizon, no one is going to give two hoots about hard or expert roulettes any more. But sadly, it seems no one has even thought about that caveat.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

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i wasn't trying to convince you. i was just saying.

in the end NT could become the best lvling spot because it does give exp and a lvl 50 i130 destroy's the place and unless when you finally get lvl sync'd they don't do it at max ilvl you will still destroy it.

now i will say about people not doing old content, that's why they allow zeta's to glamour any version (a way to get people to want to zeta) not only that the quest line will be made easier (less grinds)

they also are increasing the roulette bonus for all.

they are trying to keep people coming to old content.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

Let me reverse that question by asking you which MMO's you've played which have? Seriously, I've never heard of a game which raises the level cap past it's current level then decides not to allow people in the earlier areas to level up. Experience is experience, no matter where it's earned. There's literally no reason why the level 50 dungeons shouldn't provide experience other than out of spite for not buying the expansion.

Now, if the entire level 60 had been gated off through an Ishgard quest, maybe it would be different. Incidentally, FFXI didn't gate level rises behind expansions either. Once the level cap was raised, the quest was available to anyone, expansion or not. The expansions added plenty of nice areas to get XP faster, sure, but you could still earn XP at the maximum level in earlier zones.

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WoW. Every Expac. With the select few massive wide changes. Like during MoP's run Pandas were available without the expac, but you couldn't get to 90 and you couldn't play Monk either. This trend has been reflected by its earliest with not being able to level to the next level cap, and so on till the current one. WoD having nothing but the level cap gave everything save its zones, and the level.

Pretty sure you would get an exp bonus for roulettes, even if the mobs don't give exp. Has it been commented on?

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Originally Posted by TitaniaZero

WoW. Every Expac.

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Two major differences here. Firstly, in WoW the cap is a hard cap. You literally don't even unlock the ability to level past your cap without the expansion. Secondly, in WoW, once the level cap is 'earned' by getting the expansion, you can still earn experience in earlier areas. It's not like all of your new levels had to be earned in expansion areas only.

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Originally Posted by Natashio

Sure, I'll still log in on the 19th at 2 AM. SE can't block me or those without the expansion from doing that, as early access only applies to getting into Ishgard proper. I'll continue to craft and level up (slowly) with out the expansion. If I find out that crafting/gathering specializations are gated behind the expansion, which they shouldn't as the guilds are in ARR areas. Then I'll just put my hands up and call it the day and move on.

I'm at a point in videogaming that if expansion/dlc don't add anything substantially different and new to the game, I see at as not worth it.

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You will need to buy expansion to level past 50, and specialization will likely be quested post 50.

No. In WoW you cannot level pass the previous expac's level cap. BC cap was 70 But no expac you got only to 60 (for example) You can try and argue it. But that is not how it works

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

Oh, I expect I'll get there eventually. It's just that there's so much left to do in the game I've already got, and I like to take my time and see everything. Both ARR and HW offer a lot of content. I just don't see the point in skipping the former (or major chunks of it at any rate) in order to favor the later instead. Once I've pretty well finished everything there is to do in ARR, that's when I'll be looking for more content.



More like it may as well go poof if I don't bother playing it.

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Holy crap a civilized response XD kupos to you good sir!.

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Originally Posted by Natashio

I know. I read this that appeared in another thread and my right side of my brain exploded:

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/125...-Event-5-19%29

Hopefully it only applies to dungeons and to DoW/M jobs.

As a matter of fact, it does kind of remind me of how the game Destiny gates the weeklies and dailies behind the expansions. I can only assume SE didn't get this idea from that game. :X

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Every game with expansion sets has locked level cap increases behind them.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

Two major differences here. Firstly, in WoW the cap is a hard cap. You literally don't even unlock the ability to level past your cap without the expansion. Secondly, in WoW, once the level cap is 'earned' by getting the expansion, you can still earn experience in earlier areas. It's not like all of your new levels had to be earned in expansion areas only.

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But wasn't 11 the same in the sense of... some areas were locked behind expansion which ended up being really great EXP camping spots and skill leveling spots e.g white gate city raids? If not in fact the only exp spots open after a couple of levels. (Wouldn't know because I never really cared for leveling past a certain point myself.)

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Originally Posted by TitaniaZero

No. You cannot level pass the previous expac's level. You can try and argue it. But that is not how it works.

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If you are at or above the maximum level for a given expansion, killing creatures from that expansion's zones will only give 10% of normal experience. Quests will continue to give their standard EXP, or gold for level-capped players. - From the World of Warcraft Wiki.

So, yes... you still earn experience points from quests normally and while mob kills are reduced in XP it's not zero. Thus it IS possible to level up outside of expansions.

Regardless, the two aren't even comparable because, as mentoned, the level cap rise is locked in world of warcraft without the expansion. It is not locked here.

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Originally Posted by Lillia

But wasn't 11 the same in the sense of... some areas were locked behind expansion which ended up being really great EXP camping spots and skill leveling spots e.g white gate city raids? If not in fact the only exp spots open after a couple of levels. (Wouldn't know because I never really cared for leveling past a certain point myself.)

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This is true mostly for Treasure's of Aht Urghan which added Colibri camps, but the level cap wasn't raised at this point. When the cap was incrementally raised to 99, eventually Abyssea became the go-to for levelling.

To be fair, there was some level gating in XI. Some of the testimonies for Maat, for example, could only be earned in expansion zones. However, that being said the game launched with the necessary expansion (Rise of the Zilart, btw) by default in many countries and had been out for quite some time for the others before this was introduced.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

Two major differences here. Firstly, in WoW the cap is a hard cap. You literally don't even unlock the ability to level past your cap without the expansion.

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Uhh... isn't this the same as heavensward? You don't buy the expansion, you don't have the ability to level up...

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

If you are at or above the maximum level for a given expansion, killing creatures from that expansion's zones will only give 10% of normal experience. Quests will continue to give their standard EXP, or gold for level-capped players. - From the World of Warcraft Wiki.

So, yes... you still earn experience points from quests normally and while mob kills are reduced in XP it's not zero. Thus it IS possible to level up outside of expansions.

Regardless, the two aren't even comparable because, as mentoned, the level cap rise is locked in world of warcraft without the expansion. It is not locked here.

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Uhm... Revising... Misread. :p

Edit: Well are you sure its not Locked? Are you getting HW? If not then you can prove it. If not... well I can't prove it because this... is FFXIV's first ...uh true expac. (Unless you count ARR... but that is an aberration of MMO history anyway. XD)

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

Let me reverse that question by asking you which MMO's you've played which have? Seriously, I've never heard of a game which raises the level cap past it's current level then decides not to allow people in the earlier areas to level up. Experience is experience, no matter where it's earned. There's literally no reason why the level 50 dungeons shouldn't provide experience other than out of spite for not buying the expansion.

Now, if the entire level 60 had been gated off through an Ishgard quest, maybe it would be different. Incidentally, FFXI didn't gate level rises behind expansions either. Once the level cap was raised, the quest was available to anyone, expansion or not. The expansions added plenty of nice areas to get XP faster, sure, but you could still earn XP at the maximum level in earlier zones.

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WoW, EQ, EQ2, Rift, Even Diablo 2 and 3.

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Originally Posted by seida

Uhh... isn't this the same as heavensward? You don't buy the expansion, you don't have the ability to level up...

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No. Everyone will automatically have their maximum level raised to 60, expansion or not. They're only restricting where you can earn experience. Basically, if you do level-capped content (level 49 or so) you'll earn experience points like you would normally. The current level 50 dungeons don't award experience since they're level 50 and the devs basically did a lazy and didn't add experience to these dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

No. Everyone will automatically have their maximum level raised to 60, expansion or not. They're only restricting where you can earn experience. Basically, if you do level-capped content (level 49 or so) you'll earn experience points like you would normally. The current level 50 dungeons don't award experience since they're level 50 and the devs basically did a lazy and didn't add experience to these dungeons.

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Do you have source? I'm pretty sure they said you can level to 60 without needing to do story... but you still need heavensward.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

No. Everyone will automatically have their maximum level raised to 60, expansion or not. They're only restricting where you can earn experience. Basically, if you do level-capped content (level 49 or so) you'll earn experience points like you would normally. The current level 50 dungeons don't award experience since they're level 50 and the devs basically did a lazy and didn't add experience to these dungeons.

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Has it actually been confirmed if people will be able to level up to 60 without the expansion? I don't recall seeing that anywhere yet by devs or sources. Not calling you a liar as you could of read it somewhere, I do not recall any of that being confirmed though.

Lemuria, yes, you can get xp in old areas. Old quests in ARR will give xp, dungeons will not...

But just like in wow, for example, if you do not buy Warlords of Draenor, you can *not* level past 90 in *any* zone.

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Originally Posted by seida

Do you have source? I'm pretty sure they said you can level to 60 without needing to do story... but you still need heavensward.

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Hmm, good point. I'm sure I read it in a live letter somewhere but I might have been mistaken. Again, I'm fine if it's actually locked off through the expansion. I just don't like the idea of 'open door' content which no one can access.

That said, I still hate the idea of not earning experience in the level 50 dungeons for several reasons. Firstly, new players who already have Heavensward are going to be stuck at level 50 for quite some time playing through the story. Between Castrum and 2.55 there's a whole heap of not-leveling going on, which will inevitably become more frustrating than fun. And, again, I reiterate my previous point that it renders all previous content obsolete. SE really need to get out of this planned obsolesce cycle. We've seen it twice before with the tomes changing on us, older gear being made irrelevant, and with dungeons being relegated to 'hard mode' roulette, which is now a list longer than my arm.

For people who already meet the HW requirements, this probably doesn't bother them, but the long term impact will be felt and that's where most of my concern lies.

Also, to reiterate for those who weren't paying attention -- I already have my HW pre-order. I've already beaten 2.55, so none of this directly affects me. I'm specifically concerned about the game experience as a whole. Drawing a clear dividing line between expansion and non-expansion content inevitably leads to everyone being in one expansion area and the rest of the game being a desert. I've seen this happen with Final Fantasy XI, and it needs to be addressed or the same will happen here.

More a reason to believe that SE will pull a WoW and throw an instant level 50 in the cash shop after a year or 3 patches into the expansion.

MSQ will give xp.

Dungeons will not.

You'll get xp from everything but mobs in dungeons, roulette likely included.

They want you leveling in hw content though.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

MSQ will give xp.

Dungeons will not.

You'll get xp from everything but mobs in dungeons, roulette likely included.

They want you leveling in hw content though.

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Actually MSQ will give double exp.