Unlocking Content

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

If this was true at all then game companies wouldn't waste time and money designing the raids, making the cutscenes, or writing the lore. They'd just put a dungeon that consists of a couple of of plain gray corridors out there and tell you to have at it. The bosses could be generic gray cubes or something. It'd save a ton of time on development, that's for sure!

MMORPG's are about entertainment. If your product isn't entertaining, people aren't going to play it or subscribe to it.

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Yes they are about entertainment and that is doing the dungeons and gearing your character. I don't care about the lore of a dungeon or a boss I just want my loot or exp from it. That's how most mmo players are but of course there are those who do enjoy the lore so they have both elements to please everyone.

My biggest thing I want changed is the having to unlock everything by clearing the others first it's a real big speedbump to trying to get the higher ilevel gear. Also my original post is also meant about the quests that unlock Materia converting, Dying Gear, and Glamour are the main ones I'm talking about.

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Originally Posted by Dicejss

Yes they are about entertainment and that is doing the dungeons and gearing your character. I don't care about the lore of a dungeon or a boss I just want my loot or exp from it. That's how most mmo players are but of course there are those who do enjoy the lore so they have both elements to please everyone.

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If you don't care about the lore and you just want your loot, you may have chosen the wrong game. Given that FFXIV is heavily story driven, I don't expect that the Coil lockout will go anywhere anytime soon. The same goes for the x primals. It doesn't make any sense for you to hit level 50 and suddenly have a veritable smorgasbord of raid encounters magically unlock themselves in Duty Finder. You have to face those fights one at a time, proving that you can best them before you're able to move on to the next challenge. Like I said before, put some effort toward clearing them. If you don't see a learning party for something, make one. Go make friends and kill things together with them!

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

It doesn't make any sense for you to hit level 50 and suddenly have a veritable smorgasbord of raid encounters magically unlock themselves in Duty Finder.

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Adding onto this, it would also be VERY overwhelming for many. Where would one even start and for what reason? Gated content are also in a sense goals to move forward and progress, giving you a path to go on. Idk about your server but on mine people are still doing clear parties for older EXs and while there is the stigma of Duty Finder, some trials are able to be beaten in DF (Rahmu EX and Shiva EX from personal experience). It wont be instant and may take time, but contrary to popular belief that those who did content fresh out the gate had it easy, it took a decent amount of time for some of them as well. As you make these PF's people might start recognizing your name and may even start joining you quicker based off of doing previous parties with you.

Many raids/trials also use tweaked versions of other mechanics. You start learning Divebombs in T5 and it remains relevant even in Turn 13. Tank swap mechanics are pushed starting with Garuda EX and there is slight tweaks to it in many of the EXs that even trickle into Coils. It even goes as far as making 'Heal Swaps' for a few of the fights. Seeing and learning all this comes from experiencing the older content.

If you still are gunho about not wanting to do older content and just gear asap, get Poetics gears or Coil. This game has multiple ways of gearing to the highest ilvl possible even if you can't do the raids. And at least with Coil you only have T5 and T9 to do, and from what Ive noticed T9 is still quite popular. But removing the gates behind certain content would cause more harm than good.

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Originally Posted by Dicejss

Yes they are about entertainment and that is doing the dungeons and gearing your character. I don't care about the lore of a dungeon or a boss I just want my loot or exp from it. That's how most mmo players are but of course there are those who do enjoy the lore so they have both elements to please everyone.

My biggest thing I want changed is the having to unlock everything by clearing the others first it's a real big speedbump to trying to get the higher ilevel gear. Also my original post is also meant about the quests that unlock Materia converting, Dying Gear, and Glamour are the main ones I'm talking about.

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Right so because you don't care about the lore nothing at all in the game should be tied to the lore, despite so many players clearly liking this aspect of the game. You hardcore epeen obsessive types tend to generalise the entire gaming community thinking everyone likes the same things you do and plays exactly as you do thus everything should be catered to you...

Ok, let's put it this way. FFXIV is a story driven MMO which is one of the reasons many players enjoy it compared to something like WoW. As a result a huge fraction of the content is tied to unlocks based on story progression. It is one of the selling points of the game for many people, as indicated by the sheer number of people in this thread saying so. You may not have known that when first coming into the game but now you do.

With that in mind you should be saying:

"I hate story in games so a story-centric MMO probably isn't for me!"

Instead you're just saying:

"I hate story in games so change this game to suit my specific needs, I don't care if anyone else likes it as it currently is"

Do you realise how selfish you're being?

This game is built around story progression to do everything. You cannot do coil until Bahamut wakes up at the end of the 2.0 story. You cannot do the extreme primals until you've defeated the hard mode primals, leading the beast tribes to use the more costly techniques taught to them by the Ascians. You cannot enter the World of Darkness until you've broken the seal on the Labyrinth of the Ancients and stormed the tower itself to reach the portal to the void.

This game is built around story progression to do everything. If you don't like it then you picked the wrong game. If all you care about is progressing your ilvl and get frustrated at having the story slow you down then you picked the wrong game! There are plenty of other MMOs out there that aren't story-centric. If you don't like story-centric games then why are you trying to change a game that doesn't suit your tastes instead of playing a game that already does?

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

If you don't care about the lore and you just want your loot, you may have chosen the wrong game

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No I did not as an mmorpg has the gameplay that I am looking for so your statement that I should only be playing a mmorpg for the story really is moot. MMOs have and will forever be about the gameplay itself not about the story. Secondly I'm not trying to be selfish but you all are trying to burn me at the stake for stating my opinion on how the content is locked behind all these quests at end game. Clearly some of you need to take a chill pill and stop being so angry.

Guess what? Primals will probably always be farmed because of ponies. And secondly Coil is optional, so No you don't need to complete the T13 to gain access to Alexander. I don't understand what you are complaining about OP.

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Originally Posted by Dicejss

MMOs have and will forever be about the gameplay itself not about the story..

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However that's the thing, FFXIV is different from many MMOs in that aspect, hence Ashkendor's comment. They are playing off of their main fans being players of their FF games and catering to that trying to make a story that is at least somewhat appealing and hiding in extras revealing more lore in the harder raid content. Yes gameplay of course will be important to them, but its not like the story is put on the backburner either.

In terms of the burning at the stake, you only have your sweeping generalizations to blame for that lol

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Originally Posted by Dicejss

Yes they might but considering how future patches will continue to add more content to clear that ladder of previous content you have to clear is just going to get higher and higher.

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In Heavensward the only thing required from 2.## is finishing all of the Main Scenario, everything else you can access right off the bat once you enter in Ishgard. Alexander will be out weeks after the release so that's more time to complete older content, and now with their being an option to do duties un-level synced or with lesser people there more options to finish older content. However at that point the 2.## gear will only be helpful for leveling/glamor. 3.0 will have their own BiS gear which you can get without the previous trials. It doesn't need to be completed to stay up to date, gear wise or content wise besides having all the dungeons unlocked for Tomes.

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Originally Posted by Woggers

Guess what? Primals will probably always be farmed because of ponies. And secondly Coil is optional, so No you don't need to complete the T13 to gain access to Alexander. I don't understand what you are complaining about OP.

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Yes they might but considering how future patches will continue to add more content to clear that ladder of previous content you have to clear is just going to get higher and higher. My suggestion is they should fix it before it becomes a huge problem down the road. My reasoning for this is twofold, one is for returning players who have been gone and come back with having to clear previous stuff or two with new players they have to clear everything to get where current players are.I myself returned couple months ago and had to catch up on all the months of stuff I missed in patches. I have no problems with clearing content my issue is finding people that can and are willing to help so as I see it moving forward this can be a huge problem for many others as well.

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Originally Posted by MeeDeggiThePunisher

You, sir, are an oxygen thief!

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While he may have phrased his oppinion rather harshly, which you are equally guilty of by the way, I agree with Ryu. THe Final Fantasy 9 story is among the worst. 1# It just stole the plot from dragon ball z. 2# Kuja's motivation is kinda lame. 3# It was made deliberately goofy.

It would have worked much better with a normal looking queen, less animal people and Zorn and Thorn as the main bad guys.

9 has a stellar soundtrack, but the story is pretty meh by Final Fantasy standards.

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Originally Posted by Balipu

While he may have phrased his oppinion rather harshly, which you are equally guilty of by the way, I agree with Ryu. THe Final Fantasy 9 story is among the worst. 1# It just stole the plot from dragon ball z. 2# Kuja's motivation is kinda lame. 3# It was made deliberately goofy.

It would have worked much better with a normal looking queen, less animal people and Zorn and Thorn as the main bad guys.

9 has a stellar soundtrack, but the story is pretty meh by Final Fantasy standards.

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Maybe that's why I like FF9 so much more than most people, I liked the visuals but more than that, the lame story didn't bother me.. In fact, I've never really appreciated any of FF's stories.
I thought all FF had meh stories.
I uhh.. have a very different taste when it comes to appreciating stories though :D

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Originally Posted by Balipu

While he may have phrased his oppinion rather harshly, which you are equally guilty of by the way, I agree with Ryu. THe Final Fantasy 9 story is among the worst. 1# It just stole the plot from dragon ball z. 2# Kuja's motivation is kinda lame. 3# It was made deliberately goofy.

It would have worked much better with a normal looking queen, less animal people and Zorn and Thorn as the main bad guys.

9 has a stellar soundtrack, but the story is pretty meh by Final Fantasy standards.

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How is the plot stolen from DBZ? Having watched every episode of DBZ (including all the less than stellar fillers), I just don't see it. How is Kuja's motivation lame? Trying to overcome your creator and predestined purpose and then being overwhelmed with the fear of dying....yeah lame? How was it goofy? ????

Story-wise I'd rank it over several of the numbered titles in the series; I, II, III, V, VIII, XII, and XIII

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Originally Posted by RyuRoots

That you consider FF9 a good one is hilarious to me, for example.

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WTF are you talking about? FF9 is one of the best ones.

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Originally Posted by RyuRoots

And that's depressing. No point in catering the game to illiterate spazzes that cluster together in endgame so much. Also YMMV on story quality. That you consider FF10 a good one is hilarious to me, for example.

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Fixed that for ya. (^.~)v

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Originally Posted by Dicejss

No I did not as an mmorpg has the gameplay that I am looking for so your statement that I should only be playing a mmorpg for the story really is moot. MMOs have and will forever be about the gameplay itself not about the story. Secondly I'm not trying to be selfish but you all are trying to burn me at the stake for stating my opinion on how the content is locked behind all these quests at end game. Clearly some of you need to take a chill pill and stop being so angry.

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Disagreeing with you =/= burning you at the stake. Disagreeing with you =/= being angry. You made some pretty broad statements, and they've been refuted. That's all. In any case, even if you chose FFXIV for the gameplay you need to understand that it's a very story driven MMO, and "because lore" is a very real justification for a lot of things you may not like. If encounters are gated behind other encounters because lore, that's just the way it's gonna be.

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Originally Posted by Dicejss

Yes they might but considering how future patches will continue to add more content to clear that ladder of previous content you have to clear is just going to get higher and higher. My suggestion is they should fix it before it becomes a huge problem down the road. My reasoning for this is twofold, one is for returning players who have been gone and come back with having to clear previous stuff or two with new players they have to clear everything to get where current players are.I myself returned couple months ago and had to catch up on all the months of stuff I missed in patches. I have no problems with clearing content my issue is finding people that can and are willing to help so as I see it moving forward this can be a huge problem for many others as well.

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You don't need to do Coil to do Alexander. That's already been announced. We don't know yet if you need to clear the current extreme mode primals to access Ravana EX. My guess is going to be no, since ours are currently split into two tiers (Garuda/Titan/Ifrit, Leviathan/Mog/Ramuh/Shiva) for the sake of greater accessibility. It seems more likely that the Heavensward primals will be separate from the ARR primals, and simply have it be optional content.

People always seem to come back to the old chestnut, "I have no problem clearing, but I can't find seven other people that can also do it." The fact is, you can find them. You simply have to look. Yes, you're going to have to expend effort getting to know people. It's an MMO. That's pretty much what it's all about. Ask your FC. Join linkshells. Go be social. Hell, shout in Mor Dhona. Jump into Party Finders for things you do know how to do. Get to know people, and ask if they can help you. Keep an eye out for Party Finders for the content you want to learn. Put up Party Finders of your own if you don't see any. Watch a guide while you wait for the party to fill. Shout in Mor Dhona some more. Keep at it till your party fills. People won't help you if they don't realize you exist, so go out there and proclaim it in every way you can think of. "HEY! I'm here and I'd really like to learn this! Who wants to learn with me?" Clears don't just fall into your lap! Go out there and get them.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

If you don't care about the lore and you just want your loot, you may have chosen the wrong game

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I know that's not directed at me, but I knew the moment I got out of Limsa and had my first combat that this was not the game for me..
I only stuck around because of friends though, still can't stand the combat.. Although it did get a tad bit better at lv 50 with more skills to use.

Crafting is where the game grasps my interest, that and having friends to play with, I do wish crafting wasn't gated behind MSQ, i.e. that I didn't need a level 60 combat class in order to do level 60 mastercrafts, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Been slowly grinding out MSQ to prepare and I sincerely hope I'm wrong in my assumption that I need to do MSQ to access the mastercraft recipes, because I have an alt builder of the realms that still needs to do MSQ :(

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Originally Posted by Dicejss

Alright let me explain why I think the story is mediocre. Firstly the story itself is filled with quests that have nothing to do with the main plot kind of like filler just to beef up the number of story quests you have to complete.
THis is because as I understand it that they want players to be able to get more experience from doing the main story. However if you don't remember the story doesn't even really begin to get into primals and your "hidden" power until like halfway when you fight Ifrit for the first time. Then when the story does get interesting they throw in stupid things like hey let grab ingredients for this party that has nothing to do with the main plot once again. I'd say more than half of the story quests you do have nothing to do with the primals, saving Eorzea, or the Scions for that matter.

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This isn't anything new when it concerns MMOs or even RPGs.
See, MMOs with a story have a pretty big conern: They need to tell the story as you're leveling and continue to have content for you as you do so.
XIV 1.0 actually didn't have this. The MSQs were structured like the current job quests are, with no fluff in-between.
ARR took SWTOR's approach and gave you enough MSQs that pointed you in the right direction to get the leveling you needed done so they caps are not apparent.
I think part of the reason you "hate" it so much is because of this required pacing. People who like it seem to see the story and gameplay as separate entities, which is a thought process that actually comes from playing a lot of those old RPGs where most of your time was spent dungeon diving or grinding to get to the next story point.
WoW actually took this approach too, with WotLK actually really embracing it to the point of adding a new system of phasing just to show it off, something pretty much every MMO uses these days, including XIV and ESPECIALLY ESO.

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whoever plays an mmorpg for the story is seriously playing the wrong game, and thirdly mmorpgs are about gearing and gameplay not about watching a CS everytime you do a dungeon or fight a boss.

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There are many players who would disagree with you, especially those who take advantage of Star Trek Online and Neverwinter's custom content, or SWTOR's main selling point of having actual interesting stories as you level up (pretty much the only thing they did right.)
And yeah it's not about watching the CS every time. It's about watching it the first time.

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Originally Posted by kyuven

There are many players who would disagree with you, especially those who take advantage of Star Trek Online and Neverwinter's custom content, or SWTOR's main selling point of having actual interesting stories as you level up (pretty much the only thing they did right.)
And yeah it's not about watching the CS every time. It's about watching it the first time.

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Or FFXIV, which story locks almost everything but guildhests.
It's funny Dicejss is saying we're playing the wrong game when FFXIV is clearly story driven.
Discussing the quality of story is irrelevant anyway, it can't be denied that this is a game that integrates the story deeply into the gameplay experience rather that the story being this side thing you find out about once in a while.

I can't think of many things that don't need a quest to unlock.
The new expansion requires you do all the main story to access the new areas or classes.
If the OP doesn't like the story locking that happens from level 1, then it's pretty obvious who's playing the wrong game.
Personal motivations for playing the game don't matter, you can take the story or leave it.
But they make it clear that lore trumps gameplay and accessibility in many cases.

Not saying SE is perfect at it or anything, but if you're gonna whine about story locking in this game, you've got an uphill battle.
The OP is acting like the players are playing the game wrong, while also whining because the game doesn't fit his mold.
You can't tell the game and people to change because it clashes with what your expectations, of what an MMO should be, is.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

How is the plot stolen from DBZ? Having watched every episode of DBZ (including all the less than stellar fillers)

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Goku/Djidane, sent to wreak havoc on earth, lost his memories, Vegeta/Kuja comes to destroy the earth and Goku/Djidane turns against his kin.


But except for that FFIX has the best story and chars imo, especially Kuja. Much better than the so called "Best FF" VII.

They join a fc and their fc mates help them clear is how it's suppose to be!

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Originally Posted by lololink

Much better than the so called "Best FF" VII.

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Honestly, I've never been a fan of FFVII. It's alright, but nothing spectacular. I will say that Sephiroth is easily my favorite FF villain by far though.....

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Originally Posted by lololink

Goku/Djidane, sent to wreak havoc on earth, lost his memories, Vegeta/Kuja comes to destroy the earth and Goku/Djidane turns against his kin.


But except for that FFIX has the best story and chars imo, especially Kuja. Much better than the so called "Best FF" VII.

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Actually both were created with the purpose of finally fusing Gaia and Terra together and restoring the Terran population, though neither of them care to do that in the end. Zidane lost his memories and upon finding out about his origins decides Garland and the people of Terra are wrong for trying to fuse the two worlds and Kuja doesn't want to follow the script Garland wrote for him, he has no intention of destroying Gaia, he is just using the people of Gaia to gain the strength needed to defeat Garland (i.e the Eidolons).

Zidane doesn't turn against the Genome, in fact he saves the Genome from Garland and the destroyed Terra and they end up living with the Black Mages in Black Mage Village.

Just give them a choice, end of the story.
Maybe for those who want a skip get less reward or any other minor thing.

I love questing..
That's the reason I stick with this game..

But everyone have different style, I cant force them to follow the story and they cant force me to skip the story.
They also pay this game to make it running and for us to enjoy.

Be FAIR, don't selfish.

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Originally Posted by lololink

Goku/Djidane, sent to wreak havoc on earth, lost his memories, Vegeta/Kuja comes to destroy the earth and Goku/Djidane turns against his kin.


But except for that FFIX has the best story and chars imo, especially Kuja. Much better than the so called "Best FF" VII.

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You forgot monkey tail for no apparent reason. The comparison is not my own by the way. An article I read said something along the line of: "If the story of your game is spoiled by re-runs of Dragon Ball Z you are doing something wrong."

To each their own. I really like the music plus Zorn and Thorn but otherwise it's one of my least favorite FF games.

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Originally Posted by Balipu

You forgot monkey tail for no apparent reason. The comparison is not my own by the way. An article I read said something along the line of: "If the story of your game is spoiled by re-runs of Dragon Ball Z you are doing something wrong."

To each their own. I really like the music plus Zorn and Thorn but otherwise it's one of my least favorite FF games.

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I hope you realize Dragon Ball's Son Goku was based on the Chinese novel Journey to the West... It's not an uncommon theme for stories in far east Asia.
I only say this to clear up any fanboy worshipping of Toriyama Akira before it gets out of hand, I like the guy but Dragon Ball was far from his magnum opus.. Dr. Slump, now that's something.

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Originally Posted by lololink

Goku/Djidane, sent to wreak havoc on earth, lost his memories, Vegeta/Kuja comes to destroy the earth and Goku/Djidane turns against his kin.

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You kinda described Superman II as well...
And Guyver
And Kamen Rider
And Wall-E to an extent.
And Code Geass (just use the "foreigner" definition of "alien" in this case)
And The Iron Giant
And Stargate SG-1 (Teal'c)
And several arcs of Doctor Who

Let's just say it's not an uncommon trope.

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Originally Posted by Dicejss

Yes I would have, because 99% of the time people skip the cutscenes and could care less about the lore of a dungeon they just want to run it for the tomes or drops. The Main scenario is mediocre at best anyways its nothing compared tot he stories of FF7, FF9, or FF10.

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Ugh...this story is better, this story is worse. Stop it. Everyone has their own opinions, for example, my opinion is the best stories are FF4,FF6,FF8,FF9,FF13 and FFXIV:ARR. The stories are what make the Instances good, you know the background, you know why you are there, just entering say...Dragons neck or WoD without the backstory would be...plain, blank, and dismally uninteresting, Stories and backgrounds are what make these things interesting. If i just wanted to play a game with hardley any story and just farm for better equipment, i'll just stick with Monster Hunter.

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Originally Posted by RyuRoots

And that's depressing. No point in catering the game to illiterate spazzes that cluster together in endgame so much. Also YMMV on story quality. That you consider FF9 a good one is hilarious to me, for example.

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FF9 didn't have that bad of a story, the only issue I have with it was that Necron was completely unnecessary. The story would have been better off without him.

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Originally Posted by GenJoe

I hope you realize Dragon Ball's Son Goku was based on the Chinese novel Journey to the West... It's not an uncommon theme for stories in far east Asia.
I only say this to clear up any fanboy worshipping of Toriyama Akira before it gets out of hand, I like the guy but Dragon Ball was far from his magnum opus.. Dr. Slump, now that's something.

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Ahh far from fanboy worship. I actually hate dragon ball and consider it among the worst anime in existence. This just makes it all worse for me. When I said that Goku's and Zidane's tail has no reason I meant that in the story they are the only people with a monkey tail so being a Genome/Saiyan is not an answer

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Originally Posted by kyuven

And Code Geass (just use the "foreigner" definition of "alien" in this case)

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Prince sent to a province of an Empire to be as far from the court as possible with his memories intact, aquires some superpowers and decides to take revenge on the Empire and hunt down his mother's killers.
Sorry, not seing it.

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

FF9 didn't have that bad of a story, the only issue I have with it was that Necron was completely unnecessary. The story would have been better off without him.

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I try to avoid saying things like this was bad or that sucks. Opinions are opinions and mine is in no way better than anyone else's. I do think there are certain aspects of 9 that are objectively better than those of 7. 7 does a lot of things better than 6 but fails in some aspects compared to 8. But it is subjective how important these aspects are for different people. I also didn't like Necron. But I didn't like Kuja either. Zorn and Thorn however are the best. I kinda hope they get into XIV somehow. Does emperor Varis have jesters?

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Originally Posted by Dicejss

Yes I would have, because 99% of the time people skip the cutscenes and could care less about the lore of a dungeon they just want to run it for the tomes or drops.

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Skipping the ff9-DBZ debate, I doubt it is true that most people skip the cutscenes.

I DO AGREE that ffxiv dialogues are unnecessarily convoluted, though.

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Originally Posted by Balipu

Prince sent to a province of an Empire to be as far from the court as possible with his memories intact, aquires some superpowers and decides to take revenge on the Empire and hunt down his mother's killers.
Sorry, not seing it.

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You need to use broad strokes, like the comparison between IX and DBZ

Main Character is not from the Setting, but is a member of Bad Guys. Bad Guys come and try to take over/destroy Setting. Main Character rebels against Bad Guys, even though he is Bad Guys.
The reasons are superficial, just as the villain's motivations are superficial. Lelouch, Zidane, and Goku are very different characters, but the broad strokes of their conflict is the same. They do not like Bad Guys for Reasons. They want Bad Guys to no longer be around for Reasons. But they might feel bad about it because they are Bad Guys just like the Bad Guys are.

it won't happen op. too much people here are ff lore lovers, and ffxiv strong side is the story, so your thread is futile sorry, i never skipped them the 1st time, let everyone wait, if they are mad than let them kick me i will go again and see the cutscene, that is why fc is for.

The negative people are always the loudest. A lot of you need to learn to speak for yourselves. Claiming that most end game players dont care about the story, only caring about gear and the next raid? Im guessing you got that idea from the last f2p piece of crap you played that doesnt have any dialog worth reading. I raid 4 times a week, always trying to get the best gear, but story has and always will be the biggest thing for me in this game. I doubt I wouldve cared to do coil if there wasnt an interesting back story. I doubt Id even still be playing if it was your generic MMO raid system.

As a side note, I tried TERA lately out of boredom and waiting for HW, that game has terrible cutscenes and dialog, and yes it seems almost every player is in it for loot and dungeon runs, it might as well be a vindictus expansion. Some friends of mine I was lvling with queued up for a dungeon the moment I hit 27, I had no clue where it was, why it was there, and I was wondering how I even got in without unlocking it. After the dungeon I was in a place I hadnt been before. The entire experience felt completely random and its clear the devs of TERA only use quests as a lvling device and put little to no care into it, they dont even require you to do main story and you can get all of your lvls powerleveling 1.0 style (chain packs of mobs and let low lvls tag and kill). Theres nothing like trying out other mmos to revitalize your appreciation for the one you enjoy most.

Thank you FFXIV dev team for making an interesting world to go along with the gameplay.

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Originally Posted by Peachy

As a side note, I tried TERA lately out of boredom and waiting for HW, that game has terrible cutscenes and dialog, and yes it seems almost every player is in it for loot and dungeon runs, it might as well be a vindictus expansion. Some friends of mine I was lvling with queued up for a dungeon the moment I hit 27, I had no clue where it was, why it was there, and I was wondering how I even got in without unlocking it. After the dungeon I was in a place I hadnt been before. The entire experience felt completely random and its clear the devs of TERA only use quests as a lvling device and put little to no care into it, they dont even require you to do main story and you can get all of your lvls powerleveling 1.0 style (chain packs of mobs and let low lvls tag and kill). Theres nothing like trying out other mmos to revitalize your appreciation for the one you enjoy most.

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Every dungeon in TERA has a lore specific purpose. When you quest in the area that a dungeon is in, or any area really, there is an overarching story going on and it concludes with the dungeon (if there is one for that area and your level range). You use to have to form premade groups and met at the dungeon entrance, just like XIV once was, except now you can just queue into them when you hit the appropriate level range, just like XIV now. I haven't played TERA since the Wonderland-esque patch dropped several several etc etc months ago, but the base game had a very interesting Main Story to it.

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Originally Posted by Dicejss

second whoever plays an mmorpg for the story is seriously playing the wrong game, and thirdly mmorpgs are about gearing and gameplay not about watching a CS everytime you do a dungeon or fight a boss.

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Yet Final Fantasy has ALWAYS been about the story and it surprises you that they continue in the same vein as, not just every single player Final Fantasy, but their earlier MMORPG FFXI. Which, if you had played would know that the main content for the expansions are heavily story and cutscene based. Or even had any background experience with Final Fantasy games.

Someone playing a FF MMO and NOT expecting it to be heavily story driven is playing the wrong game. There are plenty of bland no story Korean grind MMOs you can play, this isn't one of them. So either deal with it or realise Storycentric MMOs aren't for you.

Albeit I will admit putting such long cutscenes during the 2.0 MSQ final dungeons was a mistake on SEs side. Whereas the main CS should be at the end so you can watch it at your pleasure.

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Originally Posted by Peachy

The negative people are always the loudest. A lot of you need to learn to speak for yourselves. Claiming that most end game players dont care about the story, only caring about gear and the next raid?

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Becuase their ego and misplaced self importance makes them believe just becuase that is their preffered style that of course it must apply to everyone, or at least the vast majority. Based on experience with raiding in FFXIV, socialising with other raiders on Odin and just from the amount of players that post the cutscenes on youtube to share with others. The interest in seeing the story unfold during progression is pretty high amongst the raiding community here.

Not to mention players wanting a story mode of the raids to experience the story that has been posted about much more than once on the forums too adding to the overall happiness with it being story based. Don't forget the lore forums which is pretty active too showing even more that are interested in more than just getting the shinies.

But yeah, it pretty much turns into "I want this, so of course the vast majority must want it too otherwise if they disagree they are fanbois/girls. elitists, trolls (insert random insult meme here)".

Don't worry guys...
There is no lvl synch...
You will overpower behemoth later...

And I've heard from the rumors they said Alex raid is bit easier and savage mode also drop gear.
Don't ask me about the info validity.

I find it funny you guys are trying to bash me for generalizing how most end game players don't care about the lore in dungeons and raids. Yet you guys are also generalizing as much as I am saying how many of them do care. Do you really NEED to know why we are going into a dungeon to kill 3 bosses and raid their loot? No. But they still put it in there?Yes. Because there are people that care about lore for whatever reason that could be. It makes the game more polished and it's a nice touch to make everything fit in the world. But I still stand by my original thought that the story is still medicore AT best and that is why I lost interest in it at the end of 2.0.

Yes I still love the game for my mmorpg fix and it's the best one out there in my opinion but that doesn't mean locking every single dungeon, trial, ability to glamour, convert materia, dying armor, hunts, plus whatever other stuff they plan to wedge into the game is a good idea. Why not just appease both sides and make the quest to learn about the dungeon/trial optional instead of mandatory?

That stuff aside would you guys really be that badly butthurt to have glamour, materia converting, and dying armor to just simply unlock via reaching say level 10 or say available from get go?

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Originally Posted by Dicejss

Snip

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Don't take it serious mate, it's human nature are like that.
And we are on Internet, the power of anonymous.

You Pay this game and it's your choice, that's why SE make it skippable.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Yet Final Fantasy has ALWAYS been about the story and it surprises you that they continue in the same vein as, not just every single player Final Fantasy.

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You can assume what you want but I played all of FF games for the gameplay, I do know the general storyline for most of them, probably know it quite well for a few of them but really, for me RPG has always been about the sidequests and grinding to get that lv 99, 255 stats, etc.

I however, do realize that I am in the minority. But that still doesn't stop me from voicing my opinion when I feel like the issue could be so easily* addressed without even breaking the lore down.

We don't live in a Utilitarian society, and even if we did, there would need to be a way to quantify the harm vs. good.

Comparing the annoyance a majority of the player base may feel as a few jobs being released ahead of the lore to the annoyance (tad more than an annoyance imo) a minority of the player base will have in having to complete MSQ to 2.55 to access the expansion content.. That is not easily quantifiable and you really can't just play the numbers game using the number of people involved.

*Again, this is an arguable point because some people value lore far more than others. But in my personal experience, I've yet to see anybody say they'll be quitting the game due to the lore being inaccurate at points, but I have seen people quit because of the MSQ restrictions (usually in the crafting scene)

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Originally Posted by Dicejss

So with people being past old content like Extreme Primals or T5 and T9 for example when are they going to remove the requirement of having to clear them before the next ones are available? My reasoning is this when new players come to the game they have to clear this old content to open the newer content; but then trying to get groups for the old content pretty much never happens unless they just jump into DF. DF as everyone knows 95% of the time doesn't pan out to be a clear ever even with echo. THen the other side you have returning players who also need to clear old content and stuck in the same situation. So with Heavensward coming out are they ever going to get rid of these restrictions?

Also as a side note I think the whole let's do a quest to unlock every single dungeon/trial/new feature is really annoying, it should just become unlocked via reaching a certain level.

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What your suggesting is just invalidating the FFXIV:ARR leveling experience. Only make it a slight grind & BAM Heavensward. A few problems with this. One, final fantasy is about the journey. Lots of work has gone into this content. It was just re-released a little while ago and frankly leveling up to 50 isn't that hard. This isn't WoW that has been around for 10 years. Two, if your plan goes into action new players will be into content they aren't ready for. Gear-wise and skill-wise. I can see maybe allowing players who have already gone through the content to get some restriction waved but not new players. The issue with this though is right now old players ARE playing old content. Change restrictions and new players are left out to dry. Not only do they not get to experience the full game anymore, only the expansion, which you view as the only worthy content due to having completed the main game already, but it can be confusing to have no clear path to follow. Guild Wars 2 did away with a lot of personal story (PVE main scenario) steps and is just now bringing them back. Though it is slightly different removing them caused lots of confusion for new and old players a like.

I personally like what SE is doing. They constantly add new incentives to do old content. They keep looping new quests back to paths already traveled. Not only does this keep these places relevant but it also creates an on going story. Add it all up and it makes the world feel like an actual place that is there whether the adventure is there or not. I'm personally tired of playing MMOs that just abandon the world they spent so much time on creating for the next shiny thing. I want to enjoy the whole world not just what's next horizon. What is the point of exploring if you never began your journey anywhere? Where is the sense of progression if you just flop around content aimlessly? You cry for fast-food but I crave French cuisine.

The proposed level un-sync is a nice medium I think. It allows players to get caught up but at the same time lets them keep the experience. (a side note: personally if they implement this a good trade off would be no skipping cut-scenes if there is a player who hasn't experience main story content yet or at least not leaving them behind while they watch. Almost quit the game because this happened to me. So frustrating.) But you also have the option to even do the content sync if you want the full experience, which I feel is better than the current echo for the raids.

Though I can see where your coming from I think there are better ways to address this that keep the game in-tacked.