Why punish players who just want to play DoL DoH?

Folks, what do you find so annoying in the OP's request?

What would be so obnoxious for you if other people were able to play the game just by crafting? Would it impair your game?

It seems too many people find their most fun in keeping other people from having fun. :P

Wait, are you serious? Like, honestly serious? You take away the battle content and this game would fall. Take away crafters and this game would still be going strong. The purpose of this game is to save the world. You're a warrior of Light (or was in 2.0). You have to save Eorzea from Ultima. What, are you going to knit Ultima a sweater? Offer him a plate of food? Yea, that was condescending, but it is mindboggling that you honestly expected that you can continue heavensward content without finishing most of the 2.0 storyline.

Also, you can still level to 60.

OP's complaint is that they don't like the way the game was designed when they are not playing the game the way it was primarily designed to be played. An equivalent would be me picking up something like Rune Factory and then complaining that the combat wasn't hardcore enough - of course it's not, because combat isn't the primary focus of the game.

SE intends for the focus of the game to be on DoW/DoM classes. They're not going to change that just because a few people don't want to do combat.

Who's talking of taking away the battle content? What's really mindboggling is the level of wilful misunderstanding of what other players say.

And I will repeat my question: would it REALLY impair your game if one could (optionally of course) play it by crafting?

It's not that I'd be interested in that. Personally I find crafting rather boring, though here it's implemented much better than in other games. But, hey presto, I am able to uphold an idea even if I have no personal interest in it.... and sometimes I think I am the last person alive who's able of that. :P

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Originally Posted by Swordphobic

I'm siding with OP on this, the attunement for heavensward is HUUUUUUUGE and will make most newbies abandon the game. At least the open areas and some of the dungeons should be available without those long long hours going back and forth to complete the main quest.

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no no no no no. you fail to understand SE. remember FFXI? CoP zones? sky/sea? you had to complete part of the story to unlock them. same thing here i mean honestly i LOVED the story it kept me interested and if you are going to be playing this game why would you avoid it? i mean sure crafting / gathering gets kicked in the nuts but the story is a huge part of any FF game

This is mean, and I'm sorry, buuuut...
http://i1-news.softpedia-static.com/...latforms-2.jpg

Honestly though I don't get it but w.e floats your boat. The bigger boat were all on might gain a hole or two giving too much time to that content though? idk

Edit : game dev's pushing progression to keep the trend. No child left behind type of deal.

The reason the expansion requires this is because the game is revolved around a story.

Sure you are free to do what u want within Eorzea but to gain acces to Ishgard then certain events has to unfold and that requires that you do combat related things.

See it as if it was a real world, if you never went out there to beat those monsters up you never would have become a warrior of light and in the end you would just be a crafter and Ishgard wont give crafters acces to their lands.

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Originally Posted by LunaHoshino

SE intends for the focus of the game to be on DoW/DoM classes. They're not going to change that just because a few people don't want to do combat.

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Like I said, I'm not trying to take away any experience from anyone else. I'm saying it would be nice to have a more inclusive experience. It is a design flaw in most mmos (imho of course). I play all types of games. I play mmos because its the only genre that lets you be in a persistent, massively multiplayer economy; complete with gathering, crafting, and other non combat activities which encourage cooperation, competition, and creativity.

FFXIV does a tremendous job at those aspects. Its just a shame they force you to still engage in their combat system when its really not necessary.

Oh, whatever. You'll never understand. Good night.

Edit: of course I was not talking to you, Foomerang (I agree with you 100%), but to the posters before you!

- I am Hydaelyn, the Mothercrystal... Eorzea is in danger...
Come, (umm... culinarian?) *blink blink* (Oh, well...) Come, Culinarian of Light!
Deliver the land from an eternity of Darkness!!! Take up your... (I cannot believe I'm saying this...) *cough cough* (Wait, I just need a second...)
...
(Right, I guess I'm ready...)

You who would bring the light of hope to Hydaelyn... (Here we go...) TAKE UP YOUR SKILLET AND DELIVER US FROM DARKNESS! WITH A MEAL!! OH, YEAH BABY!!!

[Hydaleyn, make another joke and you're fired! THERE ARE TONS OF UNEMPLOYED CRYSTALS OUT THERE!]

(Alright, boss... No more jokes... It's just... Well, you know... these 'adventurers'...)

[SHUT UP! BRING THE NEXT ADVENTURER ON!]

I don't think this is about punishing. Its just they way they designed the game. While the crafting and gathering jobs are very comprehensive, their design focus is around story and combat and that dictates their design choices. This has really been the way since the beginning. You cant even get a mount without doing the story. Its just the design and generally they create limitations in their game as part of that design. They can't design the game to facilitate everyone's desired way of playing without having either unlimited resources or making compromises that may effect the quality of their game.

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Originally Posted by Umo

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Judging by the ineptitude found so commonly among adventurers in DF often, I think many of them would be serving Eorzea and Hydaelyn better by being chefs rather than fighters. Just saying!

There is nothing wrong with providing a DoH/DoL person a DoH/DoL way of getting to the DoH/DoL content in Heavensward.

As much as I love the combat and questing in this game, I can completely agree with the OP in this regard. There is just something really enjoyable about the DoH and DoL classes, and I can understand that a lot of people would rather focus on playing them than playing combat classes. In fact, with the exception of my main, I've put far more time into my DoH classes and my Fishing DoL class, than I have all my other combat classes combined....

I'm not fond of the MSQ barrier that blocks out Heavensward in the least. If I hadn't of known that it existed, I probably would still be focusing on leveling my classes rather than having pushed the story to get it done for Heavensward. With so much "side" content in the game, it seems a bit ridiculous to force players to focus on the story just to progress. Don't get me wrong, I love the story, but making it mandatory past a certain point is just alienating players who either don't have time to focus on it, or who prefer focusing on more social aspects of the game. Players just coming into the game are going to be particularly hurt by it, as that's almost 350 mandatory quests and dungeons they'll have to push through before they can get to the expansion, classes, and content that everyone will be talking about......

The story related combat content in this game is way easy as it is and can be gotten through pretty quickly. Just focus on getting that stuff done first and then spend the entire rest of your time with what you like more. The idea that the way it's set up is 'punishment' for people who prefer crafting and gathering is a rather sensationalistic exaggeration. And this is coming from someone who is max geared in all crafting and gathering classes with every lucis tool and all master book 2's obtained.

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Originally Posted by Adire

There is nothing wrong with providing a DoH/DoL person a DoH/DoL way of getting to the DoH/DoL content in Heavensward.

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Except that would require SE to write a completely separate story for what is a small minority of the player base, which would take time and resources away from other parts of the game.

They have one story, and everyone, old or new, needs to complete that story to access the new areas. It's the most efficient and inclusive way of doing things.

I've never seen an expansion in any mmo that has a nearly 350 quest requirement before allowing access. Its almost always just a level cap requirement with a few small storyline quests to get people acclimated. Nevermind the barrier for people who would rather be crafting/gathering. Thats a prohibitive barrier for potential new players who might see all the cool stuff in the expansion adverts and want to join in. Nope. Do these 300 or so quests first.

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Originally Posted by LunaHoshino

Except that would require SE to write a completely separate story for what is a small minority of the player base, which would take time and resources away from other parts of the game.

They have one story, and everyone, old or new, needs to complete that story to access the new areas. It's the most efficient and inclusive way of doing things.

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What makes people who want to do DoH/DoL stuff rather than combat less important than anyone else? Gating the content in the first place was not very efficient or inclusive, and gating it behind a ton of combat quests was not fair to people.

Besides, it could be as simple a feature as making a GC-like representative with "Ishgardian seals" or something. You have a daily cap of seals you can get, you get a lot of them from turning in hard to craft items (similar to Ixal quest items maybe, but with much harder difficulty) or a few of them from turning in easier things to craft. Trade in enough seals, you get access to Ishgard for "helping the war effort against the Dravanians".

A new questline would be great, but there are simple alternatives too.

Honestly, they should add a short quest-chain which unlocks Ishgard for level 50 Crafters/Gatherers... they can enter Ishgard through alternative means to the MSQ.

Ok then what do you propose? What is the incentive for people to do a crafting/gathering class only and no fighting at all? What's the story behind it all? What keeps the player coming back to craft and gather to extend their subscription? How does their story run along side the main story?

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Originally Posted by Yuri_Hyuga

Honestly, they should add a short quest-chain which unlocks Ishgard for level 50 Crafters/Gatherers... they can enter Ishgard through alternative means to the MSQ.

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I think if they did add some kind of prerequisite for gatherers/crafters, it should be quite long at least. If it was short and easy, it wouldn't be fair to combat oriented players who did the entire main storyline.

FFXIV is a story-driven game. That is what it has been from day one-- you can't access airships without the story, you can't get a mount without the story, you can't join a GC without the story, etc. It's hardly "unfair;" it's the way they designed the game because that's how they wanted the game to be played.

If you dislike being forced to play through the MSQs that much then FFXIV probably isn't the game for you. What you want is a sandbox MMO, not a story-driven one. It's clear that SE intends for FFXIV to remain a story-driven game, and I for one am glad they're sticking to their guns.

Farmville.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Ok then what do you propose? What is the incentive for people to do a crafting/gathering class only and no fighting at all? What's the story behind it all? What keeps the player coming back to craft and gather to extend their subscription? How does their story run along side the main story?

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Again, as much as I love the main story, there are plenty of people who don't care about the story at all. Claiming that people aren't drawn to working more on DoL and DoH classes because there isn't a story to them is frankly just an ignorant argument. These classes only get a "story" segment every five levels to begin with, and honestly while I do get interested in them later on, the first three or four are just basic, "this is how you craft x". Players play these classes because they enjoy the reward of getting that HQ item, or because they want to be able to support their friends who do focus on fighting, or because they want to go out and gather that rare herb/fish/gem, or simply because they enjoy the monetary reward of selling their items on the market. There's plenty of reasons people keep playing these classes. If not, you'd never see anyone above a level 15 in any of them. Just because you have to have a story to keep you interested in the game, doesn't mean other people can't enjoy it for other reasons.....

I'm siding with OP, I love story and combat.
Raid is my souls, but without crafter we can't survive.
If crafting can make mounts, for sure more people will be interested with it.

SE need to find a way to balance these two.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Ok then what do you propose? What is the incentive for people to do a crafting/gathering class only and no fighting at all? What's the story behind it all? What keeps the player coming back to craft and gather to extend their subscription? How does their story run along side the main story?

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Don't need one. Players like myself enjoy just being part of the community. The maintenance level is literally zero. They just keep doing what they are already doing and thats perfect. No need to force combat or make some special snowflake storyline.

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Originally Posted by Apricoth

As a side note, VSoH failed because of mismanagement on the part of the creator/leader and lack of funds. A whole slew of problems that killed the game - it was nothing do with the spheres. =P

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Off topic but meh! :P

Vanguard, even with its problems (many broken quests even in starter areas, chunking (worst system of servers ever:P ) was awesome upto lvl 50. 50+ was just terrible, kiting parties if you could get in them. (Forget the name of the island). My first memory of Vanguard was after chatting with a GM,he turned me in toa chicken! XD

GMs were always active in game and awesome. Class diversity was great. It was more of a follow up to EQ than EQ2 was XD

In 1.0 this game was touted as allowing you to do the sotry and all as a DoH/DoL, and this aspect attracted people inclined to do this. 2.0 was clearly stated by Yoshi to not be following in those footsteps. He clearly said unlocking leve and other stuff would require a DOw/DoM. Pretty much all that needs to be said.

I miss how 1.0 allowed you to talk your way out of most situations, meaning you could continue the main scenario as a DoL/DoH.
And in those sticky situations a quick Wrist Flick before running away! Haha!

But 2.0 has shifted focus and it's certainly combat based. Yes you can go about your days gathering or crafting and ruling the economy with your iron first. But at the end of the day you'll be left behind the adventurers who go on to seek further experiences in the world.

Punish is a strong word, you aren't being ask to do what other players don't have to do.

If this was a sandbox game where player makes the rules and have considerably more freedom then I would be with you.

But no, this is a game with a relative linear storyline with limited open world that pretty much guide you through the process.

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Originally Posted by DarkStar

rather than fighting Gaius in a Victor-Take-All battle between him and his Ultima Weapon versus you and seven total strangers (or any combination of total strangers and friends), you battle him in a three-stage COOKING COMPETITION!

The first stage is him with his lieutenants, then the second phase has Ultima Weapon join in, using the powers of its captured Primals to vastly speed up the cooking for the other side, then you'd use the Blessing of Light to strip the Primals and make the competiton more even, and then it all ends with Ultima Weapon unlocking its full power and using lasers and magitek bits and stuff to replace the defeated chefs.

Then Lahabrea comes in, makes a short speech, and gets smacked in the face with your Aether-infused skillet.

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Best thing ever.

Sandbox RPGs allow you carve out a niche for yourself, and role play your character the way you want them to be. You can be a mighty warrior, or a humble farmer, or anywhere inbetween. You need to find one of those games, because this is not a Sandbox RPG, nor does it advertise itself as one. This is a theme-park MMO, and you're along for the ride. It's not going to cater to every style of play.

Honestly if you don't care about story, you can skip all the cutscenes, and probably be completely caught up in a couple of days.

FFXIV has been one of the most crafting-friendly MMOs I've come across. They've yet to implement anything that makes the disciplines useless. Same with DoL. I wish more games would follow this one's example because while combat is fun, as you can see from the constant requests to improve housing and other quality of life details, people don't want to just focus on combat. We're in a living breathing game with thousands of other people. It's nice to break from combat so you can make those people items to help them in their endeavors or just have goals that don't require beating something up. It's a lot easier to actually socialize if you're not constantly bashing your combat rotation.

The game being centered around story is a bad excuse. I love this game's story and respect SE's decision to gate the expac behind the after-story quests. But they could have just as easily made multiple points of views for the storyline for the different disciplines. They just chose not to. As it is OP, hopefully they learn from Heavensward and give players more options for earning the rights to future expacs.

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Originally Posted by Akuryu

Sandbox RPGs allow you carve out a niche for yourself, and role play your character the way you want them to be. You can be a mighty warrior, or a humble farmer, or anywhere inbetween. You need to find one of those games, because this is not a Sandbox RPG, nor does it advertise itself as one. This is a theme-park MMO, and you're along for the ride. It's not going to cater to every style of play.

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Not entirely true. Most sandbox games as they are now focus heavily on PVP, or not being able to farm or craft unless you yourself go as a battle class to find said items.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

You cannot experience what the game has to offer in relation to earning Ehcatl rep up to and including Oaknots, without at least one lvl 50 battlecraft class.

But seriously, nice try.

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Ah yes, the wonderful and exhilarating content that is crafting dailies. How foolish of me. Doesn't change the fact that it can all be entirely skipped because the end reward can sold.

Now if you mentioned getting a Lucis tool, then you'd have a point.

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Originally Posted by Foomerang

Don't need one. Players like myself enjoy just being part of the community. The maintenance level is literally zero. They just keep doing what they are already doing and thats perfect. No need to force combat or make some special snowflake storyline.

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Unlock new recipes with level ups, buy the mats in the MB.

As a crafter you only need Ishgard access if you want to gather the new mats yourself, if you want to do the new leves or if you want to earn the new lv60 master recipes.

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Originally Posted by Kikosho

Doesn't change the fact that it can all be entirely skipped

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Since when does skipping content = experiencing content?

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Originally Posted by Reokudo

Considering the focus of the game is to you know, go out there and adventure and slay things... Yeah. Crafting and gathering are side attractions to the ride.

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Once upon a time, DoL and DoH could progress the story. It involved them playing Parley with the target a DoW/DoM class would have to kill. I guess seeing a lv50 carpenter play Parley against Gaius van Baelsar would be its own brand of amusement...

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Originally Posted by kyuven

Hoo boy was this true. Did you know this is one of the reasons you can technically clobber things with a fishing pole or weaver's needle?

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Oh goodness, imagine someone clobbering stuff with a frying pan. (though the knife for culnarian [if that class uses a knife at all] makes sense)

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Originally Posted by Solaria_Luna

Oh goodness, imagine someone clobbering stuff with a frying pan. (though the knife for culnarian [if that class uses a knife at all] makes sense)

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Culinarian pulls out their frying pan when "Fighting". I have actually killed some monsters (albeit they were level 10, tops, and I was level 50) by beating their face in with my frying pan.

Edit: Actually, thinking this over a bit more, I'm now completely convinced that Hildibrand's parents are entirely meant to poke fun at how Crafters and Gatherers used to be able to fight in actual combat.

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Originally Posted by nuyu11

If crafting can make mounts, for sure more people will be interested with it.
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For some reason or another this made me lol. SE pls allow crafted ponies!

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Originally Posted by Foomerang

I've never seen an expansion in any mmo that has a nearly 350 quest requirement before allowing access. Its almost always just a level cap requirement with a few small storyline quests to get people acclimated. Nevermind the barrier for people who would rather be crafting/gathering. Thats a prohibitive barrier for potential new players who might see all the cool stuff in the expansion adverts and want to join in. Nope. Do these 300 or so quests first.

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While not "350 distinct quests"EQ1, EQ2, FFXI, and early WoW fame/faction/reputation requirements were pretty up there. Sometimes even wrose. There are other games too but these are the ones I have the most experience with. There were many pieces of content, especially EQ1's Scars of Veeshan expansion, that simply could not be progressed without faction grinding, which usually meant killing a whole bunch of things and turning their heads in for faction. And those were the EASY ones. Some required absolutely ludicrous methods of grinding, such as daily fetch or kill quests. Imagine if the Beast Tribe dailies were required to challenge Gaius.
WoW was very similar, and FFXI made it so you couldn't expand your INVENTORY without fame grinding. They recently lightened the load but it was pretty bad for a while.
By comparison, just simply doing a series of story quests from beginning to end is child's play.
You MUST understand also, that SE is trying to tell a cohesive story here.
What you're asking for is the equivalent of wanting to get to the snowboard mini game in FFVII without beating Temple of the Ancients.
This isn't a freeform game. It's progression based, just like the FFs of old. If you want access to certain content, you have to reach that point in the story.
If you don't like it, if you want a freeform game, there are plenty out there. Such as ArcheAge, or Landmark.

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Originally Posted by Solaria_Luna

Oh goodness, imagine someone clobbering stuff with a frying pan. (though the knife for culnarian [if that class uses a knife at all] makes sense)

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Warning, spoilers for the end of the hildibrand questline, but oh so appropriate:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHg-79c1Nsc