Please do not make group quest open world areas.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

"Challenge" as in, "you're dead if a mob so much as looks at you without someone taking hits and someone making the green bars full"? Yes, that belongs in dungeons and raids. A and S-rank hunt mobs also fall into this.
You can't mount once you have aggro, since it counts as you being in combat.
Sure, let's screw over people who work irregular shifts and are usually on their own because of it. This is in spite of me having met people along my travels and being part of a decent-sized FC on my server. Having the option to group up for stuff outside of dungeons and raids is nice. Being forced to group up isn't. That's where the difference lies.

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Again, I'll paraphrase yoshi: "You may have to prepare to flee or fight to your best if you pull two monsters at once" and "You may want to ask for help to enter beastmen strongholds" not "You solo, you die, group up or get lost" like you seem to interperate it.

I can understand ur concern op I don't think it will be so bad. Even in the letter not all areas and the areas are huge. We are in a strange land , we need some danger. I doubt we will make it so hard and unbearable.

But I was so excited for the change, more open world challenge and team play - hell yea! With new skills every job will not be cake wake if u really want to be good.

Would love to see the open world become a challenge. Bring it on I say.

I'll never understand why some players want to avoid playing with others in an MMO.

A full and dangerous open world is something that has been lacking since the launch of 2.0, and from the comments made in the live letter nothing has been said to lead players to believe that a party or a group would even be required to tackle new areas.

The most we'll likely see is small size FATE levels of co-operation when traveling through Beastmen strongholds, something that shouldn't be surprising in the least to be honest.

Bring back sneak, invisible, and deodorant? Make me feel like I am playing FFXI again.

I missed the first hour of the live letter, and just read what Yoshi said about the open world. You won't believe how giddy and hyped I am right now. So freaking excited! Thanks Yoshi-P!

You are in dangerous lands past ARR's max levels. These zone should be difficult.

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Originally Posted by Raeletta

Again, I'll paraphrase yoshi: "You may have to prepare to flee or fight to your best if you pull two monsters at once" and "You may want to ask for help to enter beastmen strongholds" not "You solo, you die, group up or get lost" like you seem to interperate it.

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Considering the former is generally a polite way of saying the latter (much like saying "you might want to bring a healer" means "bring a healer or you have an extremely high chance of dying"), that ain't much comfort.

We'll see how mob scaling goes. And I'll laugh if I start seeing "nerf open world mobs" posts in about 3 months or so.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Considering the former is generally a polite way of saying the latter (much like saying "you might want to bring a healer" means "bring a healer or you have an extremely high chance of dying"), that ain't much comfort.

We'll see how mob scaling goes. And I'll laugh if I start seeing "nerf open world mobs" posts in about 3 months or so.

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And we'll fight every step of the way. We lost the fight for Steps, but considering the ease of getting 8 morons to hit anything in range and one healer to spam aoe heals, this shouldn't be a fight we lose.

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Originally Posted by Raeletta

And we'll fight every step of the way. We lost the fight for Steps, but considering the ease of getting 8 morons to hit anything in range and one healer to spam aoe heals, this shouldn't be a fight we lose.

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Why try and turn FF XIV into FF XI?

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Originally Posted by Raeletta

If you watched properly, you'll see the mobs were spaced out, you're not going to get swamped unless you're stupid. Not to mention mobs (So far) DON'T LINK unless you are A: far above their level or B: In a party.

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The thing is, having a chocobo out counts as "being in a party" as far as linked-mobs goes. And yet chocobos do not fight as well as actual players, but we'll probably want to have them out often to continue leveling them up.

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Originally Posted by Cakekizy

Why try and turn FF XIV into FF XI?

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I have to agree with this. While I enjoyed FFXI, I'm not really interested in going all the way back to the point where people are camping little safe spots on the map (usually by the zone line), sending someone out to pull, etc. That's what FFXI was like. Rather, I enjoy actually wandering from encounter to encounter.

There's an area in Southern Thanalan by Little Ala Mhigo, where smaller Sandskin Peistes are mixed with a few patrolling Sandskin Peistes that are much larger and harder to kill. I actually like this setup, and wouldn't mind seeing more of it, but I don't want to go all the way to the extreme FFXI had (especially with how quickly MOBs respawn in this game).

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Originally Posted by Cakekizy

Why try and turn FF XIV into FF XI?

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I didn't think people were. I thought people wanted a sense of danger for once in this
"baby hold my hand" game. TERA's open world instance things were mega fun and teaming up was too.
Why turn this into a single player game when it's a MMO?
Talk people. o_ o; Would hate if they got nerfed..

more content on the open world? bring it on, please ! , why have an awesome a beautiful world to explore and flying mounts! if we are stuck in the main hub , on queue....

and if its party content better! no1 wants zergs, claim fights or provoke and run away to reset (hunts any1?) , so i hope SE leraned a lesson with hunting....

pop-able content (like maps maybe?) , fate chains that are rewarding , anything can work , if its challenging and fun ^^

I'm kind of excited that there will be more danger to the world. I am also happy about the larger size of the zones. ^^
So as long as they don't go overboard, I think things will be alright.

can we stop pretending this affects us? seriously anyone i120 plus will breeze through these area's and laugh.

the only people this hurts is anyone knew who isn't lvl 50 by heavensward and enters the area's at i45.

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Originally Posted by Crescent_Dusk

With ESO and Wildstar, this resulted in the first wave rushing through the content, and then the areas became ghost towns as the new tiers came out or people got what they wanted.

What this means is for late comers, returning players, or alts, they could not complete these zones at all since the main population had moved on to the latest content, leaving them to spam zone chat for hours in hopes they'd get a group to complete these quests.

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If only there was a box in the lower corner of your screen, a spot where you could speak to other players and ask for help, maybe even join a some sort of "free company" and make "friends" who would help you with group areas?

They should make something like that. There could even be some system where you can make your own chat room of sorts, and recruit people who are doing the same thing as you to join it! SE should really make something like that...

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

can we stop pretending this affects us? seriously anyone i120 plus will breeze through these area's and laugh.

the only people this hurts is anyone knew who isn't lvl 50 by heavensward and enters the area's at i45.

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Entering the areas at i45 is impossible as you have to clear the story to get there and Steps of Faith requires an i90 item level to do.
Plus, you really don't think they thought of that? If they say it's going to be challenging, it's going to be tough for people who are geared.
Especially since these areas are going to most likely be at level 60....and your i120 gear is going to be completely useless by level 60. lol

I think people are kinda getting ahead of themselves here. Yoshi said mobs will be tougher to solo and you'll need to use all your skills if you want to take on more than one mob at a time. The mention of looking for help in beastman lairs was not because they are group content but because the mob density there will make it hard to fight only single mobs at a time. You won't need a group. You could solo it if playing cautiously or duo it fairly safely. Enough people have complained about a lack of challenging solo content that they clearly see a need for this.

They NEVER said anything about open world group content.

I think people just need to think of it this way: Taking on a mob of your level in heavensward will be like taking on a mob like 5 levels higher than you in your hunting logs. I usually have them all completed by halfway through the tier.

I believe the reason people are reacting negatively towards potentially dangerous mobs in the open world isn't due to "fear", but rather annoyance; simply traveling from A to B could potentially take longer if they're forced to fight every step of the way, especially if they're already at level 60 and have no reason to be fighting mobs nor having anything to gain from them. People counter with "omg you actually have to socialize now!?", but no one is saying they don't want to socialize purely to avoid it. I am betting people don't want to be constantly bothering their friends to play bodyguard just to go from one town to another if their quest is for solo stuff.

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Originally Posted by Cakekizy

Why try and turn FF XIV into FF XI?

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When I said the above news to fc mates, most people I talked to said "they are happy the danger from 1.0 is returning" not XI.

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Originally Posted by Magis

When I said the above news to fc mates, most people I talked to said "they are happy the danger from 1.0 is returning" not XI.

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I wasn't here for 1.0, so don't have it as a frame of reference.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

I believe the reason people are reacting negatively towards potentially dangerous mobs in the open world isn't due to "fear", but rather annoyance; simply traveling from A to B could potentially take longer if they're forced to fight every step of the way, especially if they're already at level 60 and have no reason to be fighting mobs nor having anything to gain from them. People counter with "omg you actually have to socialize now!?", but no one is saying they don't want to socialize purely to avoid it.

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Heh, well I'll say it. As MMOs have grown more popular I find I'm less and less excited about the prospect of socializing even more with the types of people playing them. In my opinion, the quality of players in MMOs has gone downhill since becoming filled with people who weren't interested in these types of games 10-15 years ago. However, as you said, even in this case it's still about wanting to avoid additional "annoyances". Rare gems aside, I get my fill through the Duty Finder without needing to work more of it into my open-world gameplay.

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Originally Posted by Gyson

The thing is, having a chocobo out counts as "being in a party" as far as linked-mobs goes. And yet chocobos do not fight as well as actual players, but we'll probably want to have them out often to continue leveling them up.


I have to agree with this. While I enjoyed FFXI, I'm not really interested in going all the way back to the point where people are camping little safe spots on the map (usually by the zone line), sending someone out to pull, etc. That's what FFXI was like. Rather, I enjoy actually wandering from encounter to encounter.

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Ugh, don't remind me, having to wait several hours to find a group (Even as a healer) , or being ostracized by the server because you dared to take the best spot on the map just because the top guild took a break.


Open world content doesn't enforce socializing, it just allows more people to be elitist jerks.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

I believe the reason people are reacting negatively towards potentially dangerous mobs in the open world isn't due to "fear", but rather annoyance; simply traveling from A to B could potentially take longer if they're forced to fight every step of the way, especially if they're already at level 60 and have no reason to be fighting mobs nor having anything to gain from them. People counter with "omg you actually have to socialize now!?", but no one is saying they don't want to socialize purely to avoid it. I am betting people don't want to be constantly bothering their friends to play bodyguard just to go from one town to another if their quest is for solo stuff.

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These people are likely the same ones that will simply hop on their flying mounts once they have the ability to, kill their 2-3 mobs or w/e and simply fly off to the next quest marker, In terms of annoyance its pretty negligible in the long run.

And before someone mentions the complaints about mount heavy:

The key difference here lies in content difficulty. It's far more annoying to be slowed down by something that takes all of 3 seconds to hop off of my mount and kill, versus the excitement and enjoyment of debating the safest route towards my destination or in the alternative making a go of it with a few friends as we storm the gates of a beastman stronghold. An open world with teeth actually runs the risk of being.. dare i say it? Interesting

I consider this trend a self-fulfilling prophecy. It is exactly because of the lack of the need for open world interaction, that people are starting to treat others like NPCs---because they don't matter the very least bit.

Dungeon etiquette existed in the days when no automatic matching existed. Take away the need to interact socially and social interaction disappeared. Electricity takes the path of the least resistance. People also do. Same with open world content. The whole reason jerks exist is because you, me, and every other player mean absolutely nothing to them. Similarly, the whole reason open world "content" are looked down as meaningless time-filler, is because there isn't content in the open world. Take away the content and travel becomes chore.

People who complain about dangerous open world content often cite the reason that they don't have the time to spend half an hour fighting their way across a zone. That is because they got used to the idea that fighting your way across a zone isn't content. Within that group of people, there's further a group that wants some reward for absolutely every second they spend in the game.

MMORPGs used to be a journey where the journey is all that mattered. The loot were just icing on the cake. Now the loot is everything, and the journey is called "a meaningless waste of time".

True, just having difficult mobs without the accompanying content depth in the open world is bad. But it's a step in the right direction. One day we may see a return of MMO players to the genre who appreciate the journey and game companies will start fleshing out the open world again. When that happens, jerks will become the dying breed and open world content becomes enjoyable. When that happens.

You know they said mobs wont aggro you on ur flying mount, you can just skip over like all the open world mobs if there really bothering you.

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Originally Posted by Molic

You know they said mobs wont aggro you on ur flying mount, you can just skip over like all the open world mobs if there really bothering you.

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After you have already beaten the zone, not first time you go in it.

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Originally Posted by Cakekizy

After you have already beaten the zone, not first time you go in it.

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Pretty sure its just gonna be some short quest or syncing with the aetheryte, probably take all of 2mins to do solo.

Flying isn't going to be a magical bullet that makes mobs a joke. There are going to be quests where you have to go on foot/land and you're not gonna always avoid everything.

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Originally Posted by Molic

Pretty sure its just gonna be some short quest or syncing with the aetheryte, probably take all of 2mins to do solo.

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Didn't watch the live letter eh?

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Flying isn't going to be a magical bullet that makes mobs a joke. There are going to be quests where you have to go on foot/land and you're not gonna always avoid everything.

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I wasn't trying to imply that it would be, obviously there will be times that you're on foot and will have to deal with the mobs etc.

What i am saying however is that unlike now, the hope is that those mobs will no longer be ignorable which is often the case, perhaps you'll need to kill your way through 1-2 mobs at a time instead of just zerging your way to your quest marker solo, or alternatively maybe if you grab 2 friends or Just one friend and a couple chocobos you CAN blast your way through a few mobs np.

This may or may not tack a few minutes here and there on to your current playstyle, or it could mean nothing at all we won't know until we know.

I think people are massively overestimating the difficulty of the content, from a handful of words and no other details.

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Originally Posted by Zfz

Awesome Post

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This guy gets it.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

I believe the reason people are reacting negatively towards potentially dangerous mobs in the open world isn't due to "fear", but rather annoyance; simply traveling from A to B could potentially take longer if they're forced to fight every step of the way, especially if they're already at level 60 and have no reason to be fighting mobs nor having anything to gain from them. People counter with "omg you actually have to socialize now!?", but no one is saying they don't want to socialize purely to avoid it. I am betting people don't want to be constantly bothering their friends to play bodyguard just to go from one town to another if their quest is for solo stuff.

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Don't know if it will be an option... but if you will be able to take a choco taxi, your problem is basically solved after your first trip to an area with a choco wrangler (no aggro on choco porter), or other similar means of transportation. Once you unlock the more direct or otherwise aggro-free mode(s) of transport, real world aggro becomes considerably less of a problem then it will be the first time you make the run. Think of it like your first FFXI run to the Altepa crystal, or Jueno for that matter. Note that people were making those runs on grossly under-leveled jobs...sometimes just for the sh!ts & giggles, other times as a competition. Just pointing this out as it demonstrates that open world aggro never really was that great a problem in XI, and this doesn't sound like it will be anything near what we had there.

As for the bits about socialization, depth, etc.---this game simply is lacking elements that seemed to foster a certain type of connection amongst the players, and also between the players and the game. The kinds of changes they are talking about with HW's open world sounds like a step back in the direction of what helped make those kinds of connections with the players--which is largely why I myself am looking forward to it...guessing perhaps that goes for some of the others welcoming the change as well.

Here are a few videos for your enjoyment that may express the sentiments far better than anything we may type in here:

A Little FFXI Story - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARghlVjBab0

FFXI a Little Story - (series of videos--at Sasaya's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/sasayaneko)

Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUroyx1ezuc
Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KjSj0TCzCc
Part 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxvHZOhWNaE
Part 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arODrDNcmbQ

Don't like it? Okay then. Don't go there. Fly over it. Ignore it.

What's the problem? They try something new and add more social content and your immediate reaction is to cry about it and call for it to be removed because it's not immediately accessible to you?

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Originally Posted by Alberel

I think people are kinda getting ahead of themselves here. Yoshi said mobs will be tougher to solo and you'll need to use all your skills if you want to take on more than one mob at a time. The mention of looking for help in beastman lairs was not because they are group content but because the mob density there will make it hard to fight only single mobs at a time. You won't need a group. You could solo it if playing cautiously or duo it fairly safely. Enough people have complained about a lack of challenging solo content that they clearly see a need for this.

They NEVER said anything about open world group content.

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This exactly. However, this being the forums, people see what they want to see so you have 2 sides believing that it's the second coming of XI that are divided on whether or not they liked that game. We will be able to solo mobs (maybe no in high amounts), and I wouldn't be surprised if the usual suspects (blm, smn, sch, tanks (to some extent)) don't find it easier to solo more than 1. This isn't some forced grouping/socialization thing, it just means that mobs aren't going to die without you using most of your rotation and actually dodging things, which isn't a bad thing. If anything, maybe our choco companion will actually be necessary when soloing now.

That being said, get ready for the other side of this argument to post "Yoshi Lied" threads when Heavensward is released.

tl;dr: Everyone chill. It's not a return to EXP groups, it's more of a return to beta phase 3 when tackling more than 1 mob could kill you.

If they do this, Im out of there.
I prefer to play and being alone! Im no sozial-type in the net <.< (Yes its an MMO. but you dont have to talk during a dungeon and still can clear it)

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Originally Posted by AsahinaMyLove

If they do this, Im out of there.
I prefer to play and being alone! Im no sozial-type in the net <.< (Yes its an MMO. but you dont have to talk during a dungeon and still can clear it)

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You can still kill solo.
What you can't do is watching Netflix at the same time. Or taking a nap during the fight.

https://youtu.be/jIy074EZEbc?t=201

more danger plus more parties please.

Honestly, I normally hate the idea of obligatory group areas in non-instanced content.

However, they've already given us a genuinely workable form of that, with FATEs. Many CAN be soloed, but it's a slog, and people have frequent incentive to join in.

If they actually decided to make areas of the main game world require more than one person, I think this dev team, combined with this community, could actually pull it off.

It's not really hard to avoid mobs in the open world to be honest. I've gotten my lvl 1 alt to Revenant Toll from Grid to Coerthas route.

Just out of curiosity. How many of those scared of this rise in danger in the open world, are the same who complain of a lack in challenge? How many of those who yell "Git Gud" are are now crying foul over not being able to steam roll over content for their shinnies? This is something that
could possibly not only extend game play, but encourage grouping/ team work to clear objectives. These could be the people you befriend, people who help you clear content you can't clear in DF. I'm all for it, it's about time small groups had more to do than just treasure maps and dungeons.

world becomes more dangerous and we get a way to completely bypass it with no penalty.
I see no issue