Does instant transportation effect game immersion?

Does the sun make noise?

I would agree 100% with op.

A very clear example of this would be wow. If you've played it or are familiar with the dungeon finder, then you know what i'm talking about. Don't get me wrong, i think the dungeon finder is a genius idea, but a lot of people don't have any clue where at least half of the dungeons they do are located. There is no reason to. You can sit in town, when a group is ready, you teleport there. In such cases why even have open world zones?

I agree that to me xi had a perfect blend between travel and immersion. But that's my opinion. Having the option to instantly port w/e you want pretty much whenever you want destroys the sence of "adventuring" to me. I have been voting for the removal of anima since day 1. Let people port to a crystal maybe once every 24 hours, I could live with that.

One thing I read people argue against my point on this is that they don't have time, or don't want to spend time, traveling for "no reason". While i understand how it was frustrating trying to trek half way across the world in xi, even if you got a port close, you still had to travel, IMO online rpgs aren't for people with very little time. I'm not saying your time on games like these should be spent completely wasted, but isn't this type of game about exploring a virtual world? I had so much fun on xi sometimes just exploring zones, every inch.

This topic is and always will be stupid. if you think for one second waiting on an airship while i am peeing, eating, watching netflix, blu-rays, playing street fighter, is FUN or IMMERSIVE you are wrong. there is no other way to put it. your wrong.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by neizero

What it does is it increases my enjoyment of the game, and that's worth 10,000 more than "immersion"

---

BINGO!
This 100%
/thread

Sorry, doesn't affect my "immersion." Seriously hate when someone tries to use immersion as the basis for an argument. It's a completely subjective notion that is only used to force something into gameplay to make it "better." However, "better" is nothing more than "that which I want regardless of what others do."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AlexNiculaie

Sorry, doesn't affect my "immersion." Seriously hate when someone tries to use immersion as the basis for an argument. It's a completely subjective notion that is only used to force something into gameplay to make it "better." However, "better" is nothing more than "that which I want regardless of what others do."

---

pretty sure the topic was a question which i claimed i had no clue about and not an argument.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PrettyPrincess

Does the sun make noise?

---

no. noise/sound is something interpreted by your brain subjectively and therefore nothing "really" makes a noise, it just emits certain waves or signals that we interpret in a way. Since no one is near the sun to interpret the noise, it is not making a noise.

Theres also the quantum mechanics Schrodinger's cat type argument which says that all events are random on a sub-atomic scale so unless we observe them we can't be sure they happened. Thus the sun even emitting a wave that can be interpreted as a sound is unknown. As such we say it is both emitting and not emitting a sound.

However we can say it has probably emitted waves in the past using a Michelson Doppler Imager mounted on a spacecraft that orbits the sun by tracking the movements of the surface to map acoustical pressure waves. These waves would be too low for humans to hear without enhancements. Further since we can't directly experience the sound waves as they are underneath the surface and do not travel through space, the quantum mechanics argument applies here as well.

Back on topic >__>

I think there's 2 distinct types of games. (prob a bunch inbetween too)
Those who are interested in immersion and cool with wasting time if it makes the game experience better.
and Those who just want to raid or grind and avoid experiencing the world for the most part (or only want to experience it once)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Azurymber

i agree with all that. :p cept kinda the way you say ppl will go about levelling. Since you can only get guild marks from the specific city now my friends (like 5 or 6 i convinced to get the game) have essentially just gotten free warps city to city when starting the game, or did a full run (ex, gridania to limsa) right off the get go or within the first few days. All of them have gotten bored, said the games a grindfest with no future and left. But im sure some ppl do it your way too. Regardless, right now it doesnt give you that adventuring feel that other MMOs give. and hopefully they will address that before PS3 release

---

They'd do it my way if people didnt say "Oh i'll just port you", thus other people are ruining experience for the new commers, not the game =) Though the game is eventually when the newers find it out themselfs or via others ruining it first!

Big vicious cycle. I think the content on airships will prove to be essential to lore and that will bring people to not skip.

God... people are still talking about that immersion crap? Games are made to be fun,that's it. Airship travel has been confirmed many times that the instant part is just for NOW and it WILL BE CHANGED in the FUTURE.

and if you think that starting yet another thread about instant airship travel and whining about it will make the devs rush even more so that you get your 10min ride for 1.19 then you are very delusional and maybe need to setup out a bit of your total immersion....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aldwin

I would agree 100% with op.

A very clear example of this would be wow. If you've played it or are familiar with the dungeon finder, then you know what i'm talking about. Don't get me wrong, i think the dungeon finder is a genius idea, but a lot of people don't have any clue where at least half of the dungeons they do are located. There is no reason to. You can sit in town, when a group is ready, you teleport there. In such cases why even have open world zones?

I agree that to me xi had a perfect blend between travel and immersion. But that's my opinion. Having the option to instantly port w/e you want pretty much whenever you want destroys the sence of "adventuring" to me. I have been voting for the removal of anima since day 1. Let people port to a crystal maybe once every 24 hours, I could live with that.

One thing I read people argue against my point on this is that they don't have time, or don't want to spend time, traveling for "no reason". While i understand how it was frustrating trying to trek half way across the world in xi, even if you got a port close, you still had to travel, IMO online rpgs aren't for people with very little time. I'm not saying your time on games like these should be spent completely wasted, but isn't this type of game about exploring a virtual world? I had so much fun on xi sometimes just exploring zones, every inch.

---

I think you put it nicely there. Playing a MMO really isn't about getting everything by pressing a button it's about the journey getting there.

When I think of my time in the world of Vana'diel that's literally how I think about it. My time in another world and place.

When I think about the time spent playing XIV there is no such connection to the place the game happens in. Nothing in the game makes you think about the locations or distances of the world and that's why they feel meaningless.

I guess in the future this aspect will only be more pronounced since the future focus is only on raids/levels instead of gameplay based on travelling.

Actually now that I think about it this is exactly what made the XI fetch quests more fun because you actually had to plan how to get to places with your character. In a game with anima a fetch quest has no gameplay design as the player will just zap there and feel like his time was wasted because of the quest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seif

I think you put it nicely there. Playing a MMO really isn't about getting everything by pressing a button it's about the journey getting there.

When I think of my time in the world of Vana'diel that's literally how I think about it. My time in another world and place.

When I think about the time spent playing XIV there is no such connection to the place the game happens in. Nothing in the game makes you think about the locations or distances of the world and that's why they feel meaningless.

I guess in the future this aspect will only be more pronounced since the future focus is only on raids/levels instead of gameplay based on travelling.

Actually now that I think about it this is exactly what made the XI fetch quests more fun because you actually had to plan how to get to places with your character. In a game with anima a fetch quest has no gameplay design as the player will just zap there and feel like his time was wasted because of the quest.

---

this is all opinion that not many people share.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AmyRae

Apparently it's only immersive if everyone suffers.

However, immersion is broken all the time in the game. If you can't accept teleportation as legitimate, then you can't accept weightless inventories and currency supplies; you can't accept getting chomped, burned, slashed, pierced, and bludgeoned by your foes with no permanent scars and no visible marks. When people die, they should stay dead. People shouldn't suddenly wear their armor poorly just because they picked up a wand when they normally use a sword. People shouldn't get smarter because they put on a hat of smartness or stronger because they put on a belt of strength.

I'm sure there are plenty of other examples, but if you want immersion, I would strongly recommend playing this game called Real Life. It's pretty intense.

---

/clap +1

Well said, well thought out, and a lot of great points made.

Quote:

---

no. noise/sound is something interpreted by your brain subjectively and therefore nothing "really" makes a noise, it just emits certain waves or signals that we interpret in a way. Since no one is near the sun to interpret the noise, it is not making a noise.

Theres also the quantum mechanics Schrodinger's cat type argument which says that all events are random on a sub-atomic scale so unless we observe them we can't be sure they happened. Thus the sun even emitting a wave that can be interpreted as a sound is unknown. As such we say it is both emitting and not emitting a sound.

---

my...MY MIND IS BLOWN

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AmyRae

I'm sure there are plenty of other examples, but if you want immersion, I would strongly recommend playing this game called Real Life. It's pretty intense.

---

That game sucks, Its totally unbalanced, buggy and the developers has absolutely no idea how to communicate with the player base or take feedback.

• Implement a 10 minute mediocre, uninspired airship ride nobody will enjoy (a la Limsa Lominsa ferry).
  
  
• Players whine endlessly on the forums about length of flight, mediocrity.
  
  
• Yoshi-P apologizes, makes plans to improve said mediocrity, promises to shorten airship ride.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

That being said, I'm not fond of this streamlined, instant gratification content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Griss

That game sucks, Its totally unbalanced, buggy and the developers has absolutely no idea how to communicate with the player base or take feedback.

---

Real life has way too much grinding and the level design is just awful. Well at least I can use an AH and have proper player housing...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Azurymber

I don't have a clue about this but I'm wondering if the whole anima thing + now the "instant airship travel" is going to ruin any possible sense of immersion that this game could have.

** So based on your experience with other MMOs and games, do you feel more immersed in a game world when you have to run around everywhere and when airships and ships take time (ex. ffxi), or do you think that instant transportation doesn't effect immersion? **

here are my thoughts (feel free to skip them and just post your opinion):

Anima allows you to instantly port to the important spots in the game (leve crystals). So you don't really have to run around the pointlessly large world. It basically results in people only really utilizing maybe 20% of the world or less on a regular basis. As such the entire game to -me- feels kind of instanced and focused around small areas (leves).

FFXI had instant port but it wasn't to the "important" spots in a zone and was often out of the way. And you often had to run past agro mobs to get where you wanted to go. I found that to be a lot more immersive than just porting directly to leves.

Instant airships really destroys the sense of immersion for me because it essentially lets you travel to wherever you wanna go instantly for a fee.

Put another way, this game doesn't seem like a massive dynamic world I have to explore, but like a series of instances inside a massive world that you can warp to with anima or buy your way to.

And while I understand there will be an -option- to travel on the airship, it still makes the game seem more like a series of instances rather than a dynamic world.

To me FFXI was blended perfectly. You could warp to some places but they were usually in the middle of the zone and you still had to run or chocobo to where you wanted to go. It was like a warp would take you out to the wilderness, surrounded by agro mobs and such, and then you'd have to run from there past things that can actually kill you to get to your parties camp, or the town you wanted to go to, etc.

---

Your concern is well-founded.

The instant airship thing is temporary, meant to quell of the "GIV US CHOCBS N ARSHPS NOW OR I QIT" minority. Once more of the core of the game is fixed, little nice things like actual airship rides and personal chocobos will be added.

Whenever you have questions like these, the answer is usually three simple words:

work
in
progress

And the answer to any questions regarding Kiki is usually three simpler words:

in
my
pants

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seif

Real life has way too much grinding and the level design is just awful. Well at least I can use an AH and have proper player housing...

---

Yeah, but Chinese RMT bots have ruined the economy, and we still don't have a reraise spell.

It didn't affect my immersion in Guild Wars and I had a total of about 650 hours playtime in that and you can instantly warp to any outpost you've already been to at any time.

Instant teleport (Anima) does not bother me because it is limited, Instant everything else does (airship, ferry, etc).

If the devs want to make everything instant just give us unlimited anima then (giving the option for instant and a wait = forcing instant.... no one will wait). It would have the same effect to gameplay instead of developing unneeded content that does the same exact thing.

People without time have Anima to get anywhere in the game. It makes no sense at all to have everything else be instance as well. If a 3-4 min airship ride is too much well then use your anima.

A mmo should not be about being instant everything, what is the point of a huge world if everything is instant.

I'll just say it certainly does if it's forced on me, and leave it at that.

no, the use of the world immersion ruins my immersion

we will see every inch of this game at some point, the devs will make a great game where they take u ...to every inch... of the games maps ...for a good enchanting reason. for a great story, cut scene, to get items to fight bosses, to fight bosses, mini bosses, to talk to npc's. u will see it all and it will be good, but u won't have to run more then 5mins to get places is a good thing not bad. it don't ruin this thing called immersion that people toss out at almost everything that bothers them personally.

as for only being at them places like 1-3times in the games life time ...so what that is all that was needed, they will push us all in the same focal areas, hell i think they shouldn't of kill off camp zones like bibiki or moon in ffxi but they did to new zones, they could just as easily gave those mobs a big bonus to equal the same as wotg mobs, they didn't cause i can only assume they want us all smushed together with the feeling of groupness.

theres like 20threads on this and i basically say same thing an so do most, i think a choice to ride boat and instant past it is fair, lots of us will still take boat when times are right. waisting peoples years of 5-10mins at a time, for multiple times a day every day ...is kinda selfish ..for what ...i don't get it.

*reads title* ... *enters thread* ... *skips to last page*

Yes. Yes it does.

*leaves*

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by weeble

no, the use of the world immersion ruins my immersion

we will see every inch of this game at some point, the devs will make a great game where they take u ...to every inch... of the games maps ...for a good enchanting reason. for a great story, cut scene, to get items to fight bosses, to fight bosses, mini bosses, to talk to npc's. u will see it all and it will be good, but u won't have to run more then 5mins to get places is a good thing not bad. it don't ruin this thing called immersion that people toss out at almost everything that bothers them personally.

as for only being at them places like 1-3times in the games life time ...so what that is all that was needed, they will push us all in the same focal areas, hell i think they shouldn't of kill off camp zones like bibiki or moon in ffxi but they did to new zones, they could just as easily gave those mobs a big bonus to equal the same as wotg mobs, they didn't cause i can only assume they want us all smushed together with the feeling of groupness.

theres like 20threads on this and i basically say same thing an so do most, i think a choice to ride boat and instant past it is fair, lots of us will still take boat when times are right. waisting peoples years of 5-10mins at a time, for multiple times a day every day ...is kinda selfish ..for what ...i don't get it.

---

Excellent point. Right now, there are many areas of the game that are physically impossible to reach due to being heavily patrolled by aggro mobs that can one-shot any R50 from a distance. I can't imagine SE intends for these areas to never ever be explored.

I appreciate the discussion, but the instant travel is only temporary. So, if you have any problems with it, all you have to do is wait mere months before it is changed.

and if you don't, enjoy it while it lasts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang

I appreciate the discussion, but the instant travel is only temporary.

---

How wrong you are.

Just a heads up if you were unaware the Instant travel isn't going anywhere the developers intend for it to be a permanent option.

is there a link on the permanent part? u got me excited and the last one i read was it was temporary. but all in all i was already thinking they would of kept it. it's like giving us all double anima and then taking it away. i figured they would of gotten enough to complain and keep it the way it was. i think se knows this, is why they started low anima and gave us a little bit more rather then go big then take away, so i thought was safe to say that give us instant travel ...then take away is kinda fail.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jynx

How wrong you are.

Just a heads up if you were unaware the Instant travel isn't going anywhere the developers intend for it to be a permanent option.

---

You need to brush up on your reading.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang

You need to brush up on your reading.

---

no he does not you do...

"Originally Posted by Foxclon
I was short on words last time about this sorry,
The idea for the implementation is for people who want to travel fast they can cut the event (cut scene) and travel instantly, and for those that want to enjoy the flight (or happening!?) they can also do that. We would like to make it so depending on the situation or play style you can choose.
(Note this is for later on, the current implementation will be instant travel only)"

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...nglish)/page21

Both options are here to stay.

awesome, naner naner naner lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang

You need to brush up on your reading.

---

People here read? AM I MISSING SOMETHING!?

Wait a minute I might have to wait 3 minutes to go to where I want to go?

I PAID 60 DOLLARS AND I WANT TO GO EVERYWHERE INSTANTLY AND GET ALL THE ITEMS WITHIN A WEEK AFTER THEY COME OUT BECAUSE I'M CASUAL. EVERYONE ELSE'S OPINION DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE I'M A LEVEL 27 PUG WHO DOESN'T PLAY.

I'm hoping they will atleast fix the aetheryte system so that players can't piggyback to aetheryte camps they dont have. Seems so broken that a rank 1 player could be teleported to a rank 50 area without ever leaving Ul'dah. Especially now that they are increasing our transportation options.

I just wish theyd let us toggle the display of ! over NPC heads, thats the only thing killing my immersion atm

oh and animations for teleporting(ur character just kinda disappears, whereas in XI as the spell shrunk ur character melted away with it and then u were gone) and raising(seriously needs an animation on the corpse that its getting casted on)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Visch

Wait a minute I might have to wait 3 minutes to go to where I want to go?

I PAID 60 DOLLARS AND I WANT TO GO EVERYWHERE INSTANTLY AND GET ALL THE ITEMS WITHIN A WEEK AFTER THEY COME OUT BECAUSE I'M CASUAL. EVERYONE ELSE'S OPINION DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE I'M A LEVEL 27 PUG WHO DOESN'T PLAY.

---

i think it is the opposite of this, i play like 10-16hrs a day usually. i don't play 3hrs a week and have 100anima all the time. i don't want a thing given to me, i'ma get mine no matter how hard it is or how long the grind is to get it. i don't want to waist my time where it is not needed though. how do u bitch bout 5-10min boat rides and be the same players that don't want pop times for hnm's. longer time yeah, but rewarded. what is the reward for the 5-10mins on boat?

it is said that average human waists 75days of life on the toilet. ...i don't need to waist it on a boat neither cause most of us ..use boat a few times a day. bring on the content time sinks. it can't be said enough times that a afk person on boat is a pointless thing.

i agree with alaitus though, we need to make it so u'r first touch on crystal has to be by walking. 1 time is enough to make it fun and memorable and lets us explore. even maps remove em till u earn them in some way like ffxi. then we set.

Alot of people in this thread are responding like an Airship is a teleport. We already have teleporting, we dont need more teleporting. These airships should have been reserved for Content and should have been made into small timed instanced zones. There is no reason to make them instant when we already have a universal teleport function.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by weeble

what is the reward for the 5-10mins on boat?

---

Still having Anima to spend is your reward, shouldn't need to be any more complicated than that. If they insist on fast travel being an option they need to have a cost associated with that option.

Anima is fairly balanced being that you have a finite ammount of it to spend in X ammount of time. Unless they tack on a 10k "First class ticket" fee for instant town warps it's a unbalanced system that has no reward or reason to have a long portion of the trip. Even if it looks awesome and pretty nobody will use it becuase they can skip it at no cost to themselves.

People seem to be over-rating how much people want to explore or experience the game over the compulsion to have everything at their fingertips. Having challenging, rewarding, and time consuming gameplay helps you apreciate the rewards all the more when you arrive at them.

Being handed everything makes it feel cheap and useless. I think anyone who played XI in the pre TOAU days "I never made it to the new level cap content due to my account being compromised and taking 8 months to get back" that when you first hit the level cap of 50 and had to do that god awefull lvl cap quest you felt awesome when you finally beat it.

"I can finally go farther and do things better!"

When you finally got your chocobo it was a breath of fresh air!

"I can get to Jueno without fear of my face being eaten"

When you got your airship pass you had a world of new possibillites open to you.

You never had any of these things handed to you, you earned them through your time and dedication. Even then! things were still time consuming, people will argue that warping to a craig and then chocobo to the town was a tad faster...sure if you had the resources to do that.

Option A: Airhsip, requires minimal effort takes a bit longer.
Option B: Telepo-choco. Requires a White-mage to teleport and your attention span to navigate your way to town quickly.

As much as I hate to keep bringing up XI it was very masterfull at making much of it's content rewarding, while still not holding our hands every step of the way.

Deferred gratification > Instant gratification

Hear me now and believe me later. You will have greater satisfaction in life if you follow that statement.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eekiki

Deferred gratification > Instant gratification

Hear me now and believe me later. You will have greater satisfaction in life if you follow that statement.

---

She's absolutely right!

/agree <op>

whether ffxi or to a larger extent other mmo's i've played, hopping on a flying transport and flying through the landscape seeing people grinding, mobs milling around, ect really added to a sense of immersion. This instant cut scene is (imo) a really cheap half ass attempt to appease player complaints. Honestly, I'd say the same even if they did it like the ferry where you get an unrealistic cs of a vibrant area (as opposed to the static zombie npcs), without the ability to enter the ferry, fish up argo mobs.

IMO they missed an opportunity to let us fly on (solo or in small groups) the flying machines seen in the intro cs, low altitude through the landscape and see all the stuff going on below as we zip along between cities... oh wait i forgot, that requires a seemless world with mountains and stuff... we have sandbox rat mazes.