Coeurl & Heavensward

We should refrain from arguing. We're all here to help.
That being said, some questions i have for you all because i'm unwilling to help those who are unwilling to help others in the future.

To what extent do we help people?- Do we Actively go out and try to convince people not to give up or do we wait for them to come to us?

To what extent does helping become Carrying?

When we teach mechanics, do we tell them what the mechanics do or do we also teach them how to deal with said mechanics?

How do we define parasites, and How do we deal with them?

If we come across a hostile casual, What is the appropriate response of being accused of showing off our E-Peens?

Is it Reasonable to give up on a lost cause? What constitutes a lost cause?

And Finally, how do we convince people to help those who don't care about them?

My post is messy, Just gotta deal, see you guys in the morning.

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Originally Posted by YuzuxWyrm

We will stop selling coil to help your cause once we have made 60 million more gil from people buying runs ^_^ good day

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I have to agree with Yuzu on this, the only person making any sense on this topic. I mean that gil is so good!!! ^_^

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Originally Posted by Xellossu

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Nice questions. I would assume the answer to most of them lies within each person’s prerogative. Since none of this will be policed, and we are simply making sure that we can all make meaningful contributions to the server, it boils down to what each person can do and how much time said person can afford at that moment. Let's not forget that time is a very precious resource.

That said, to give a less vague answer I would say (and these are my opinions):

1. When it comes to helping people there shouldn't be a limit for those actively seeking help. I would be weird going around giving pep talks a trying to boost the morale of random strangers but this shouldn't be a problem for the people around you like fc mates. To those you aren't acquainted with, who perhaps are expressing Dejection in say; shout or yell chat, simply letting them know it gets better or that it takes time can make a big difference. However, I really don't see myself telling people it'll get better. My point is that if someone if expressing discontent, they are very likely looking for someone to make them feel better. Granted, I'd probably ignore these kinds of comments.

2. Helping becomes carrying when the assisted party has neither the aptitude, nor desire, or a weird combination of both, to make a significant contribution to a fight.

3. Usually, the point of watching videos is so that people know what mechanics do, and gain some mild insight into navigating them. If I joined a learning party, I would definitely do my very best to help people learn how to handle those mechanics. There’s no point in going into a learning party and not sharing opinion if it can help people make progress.

4. I'm not sure what you mean by parasite. If you mean people who join farm parties looking for a clear, or those or join clear parties instead of learning ones when they have 0 experience, I tend to kick them. The reason is that I find these actions to be dishonest. I have put up farm parties and been asked by people if they could join. They usually say something along the lines of I've been down to 5% etc. This is usually fine with me, but I consult the rest of the party. If however, a person cannot make that known before joining, then all I see is a liar and I kick liars.

5. People can be hostile, regardless of playstyle. Wether casual, or hard-core or mid-range, there are some people who simply won’t take your advice. However, you cannot forcefully persuade people to do things differently. If you are truly not smacking people with your e-peen, I would recommend recusing yourself from the situation. Unfortunately, some people actually enjoy skewering people with their epeen. This really isn’t cool. And it’s up to each of us to find that line and never step over it.

6. The phrase ”Lost Cause” is so ambiguous. What however isn’t, is the moment you have marked someone AS a lost cause. I would absolutely recommend you give up that instant. This is because If I mark someone as a lost cause, I have already given up on them. Nothing positive will come from that exchange. What you shouldn’t do however, is convince others to abandon that same person. You can share some of your misgivings with you compatriots which is expected, but to prevent them from getting help would be unfair seeing as you alone are making that judgement and wielding your influence to make someone else miserable.

I have a brief anecdote. I will use Skun Lectro as an example. The purpose of this isn’t to mock him. It’s actually the opposite. I remember back in 2.1, people seemed to hate this guy. He was called a lost cause as well. If people joined a pf and saw him, they’d leave. Eventually, I wrote him off as well and that was a terrible thing to do. However, when the Kirin was released, I formed a Titan Ex farm and we had about 5 people when he joined. 2 people left because I didn’t kick him. and another person urged me to kick him. I didn’t want to look like a jerk so I didn’t kick him. When we had a full party, we cleared the fight over 10 times, maybe close to 20 times, I don’t remember. What I do remember is that we wiped only once and it wasn’t his fault. And that aside from that one wipe, he and one other person were the only people who never died to any mechanic. We overlords, with our FCoB experience, made mistakes and found ourselves (me included) to a burden to the party at one time or another, but the person we mocked stood as an example of flawlessness.

I urge you all to think very carefully before slandering people with devastating labels such as “lost cause.”

7. When it comes to helping people, you have to remember that we aren’t saints. You can’t really expect people to assist people they dislike. But the good thing about this game is that it’s an Mmo. Which means there are other people who can help. If you can’t find someone else at that time, you can simply try at a different time.

Now again, these are examples of what I would idealistically do. What you find acceptable could be different.

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Originally Posted by YuzuxWyrm

We will stop selling coil to help your cause once we have made 60 million more gil from people buying runs ^_^ good day

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YUZU pls.
As a seller on both servers I'm on, I'm not gonna say I'll ever stop selling runs. Some people just want the gear, that's their idea of fun and don't won't to work for it, more power to them ; more gil to us.

But anyway, I have a decked out scholar still on Coeurl still [Kalli moshanti] and am almost always up to help people out when I'm on, just toss me a tell.

Not gonna lie however, Coeurl is dead endgame wise.

There is no reason to stop selling. Other people on other servers wont stop. Honestly, if people don't care about learning and just want the loot, they will buy it. Them selling runs really wont change anything, if people wanna learn they will learn it. Its as simple as that.

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Originally Posted by LhoirMoshanti

Not gonna lie however, Coeurl is dead endgame wise.

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Nope, it's not dead, if anything it's more of a secret community now. We recruit people through linkshells, not party finder to avoid trolls/people sneaking in. Right now I can name at least 10 statics on top of my head who can farm t13 even before echo and that doesn't even include the ones who are only upto t12,11 or 10. If you wanna be technical and stuff, here http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...s-embarrassing

According to this all of NA's servers endgame population is dead. A COMPLETELY dead endgame would be zalera where only 2 statics cleared t13.

About selling runs, as long as some people have access to gil(legit or not) there will always be lazy people out there and would rather buy their way in.

Oh i was joking why would we ever stop selling lol

Coeurl is only dead to a few. People have lost many friends and chosen to go find new ones on other servers. We can choose to be 2nd or even 3rd string to strangers. But those who remain are able to accomplish most of what they desired. You yourself cleared savage 6,7, and 9 on coeurl and there are still capable people. But many denizens of our sever only choose to play with people vetted by their friends. And when your friends leave, you have less people to vet others. Instead of transferring, I'm content to stay and make new friends and push forward with even more brazen goals. If there are no good players left, I'll find people with potential and instill in them as much knowledge as I can. And come heavensward, we should get an infusion of new life. If the populations keeps shrinking, they've promised to consider a server merger. But for now, I'm gonna look for more skilled players who continue to surprise me with their skill. Lately, I've been finding quite a bit of them.

Yep! I feel the same way Aleister! :D
A few months back we lost 2 static members, we knew no one at the time to fill those roles, but we went out there to meet people and we were ready to teach anyone that fit in with us anything they needed to know. There are plenty of competent people out there, just have to take the time to find em.
Expansion will bring lots of people and everyone will be back at square one since there is no coil locking them out of the raids. There will be plenty of people looking for groups then. Helping people is fine, I do it every day but going any further then that is just extra in my opinion.

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...onthly/201504/
The population is not shrinking...a lot of those fcs just popped out of nowhere with new people. Weird thing though is that I don't see a lot of the new people in More Doughnuts...

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Originally Posted by Mahes

Alright now I have a question for you, Have you tried to raid if so how successful have you been?

Another question I have, Have you had any questions about your class and not be able to figure it out do to not being able to talk to someone and actually fine tune your rotation?

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I started doing the Crystal Tower raid series with my dragoon alt. I haven't tried yet as a tank with my profile character. I've made it through all 3 parts of the Crystal Tower with my dragoon and have even completed the daily quest once. I'm enjoying the experience so far. I've run into people in dungeons that have given some good tips for holding aggro when I was in lower level dungeons and still learning, I've also been trying to visit the forums more often and reading threads in the different class sub-forums to see how others handle the role as well as how others observe the roll. I feel with all of this I have a fairly good handle on my rotations I just don't always remember mechanics properly or click a wrong button because I think it is something else in the heat of a battle. The one thing that I haven't grasped yet are the tank swap mechanics I've read about. I'd say those are the two main things that make me hesitate to tank end game content.

Sorry I didn't reply sooner, forgot to check back on this thread over the weekend.

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Originally Posted by sciondar

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Thats Great send me a message ingame and I can help you somemore. I will even que into dungeons with you and give you pointers as we run it if you would like. Also you are more them welcome to come talk on TS if you want to get some advice. Just pm me in game and ill send you the info :D

I'm just going to say this once and people can take it as they please, but OUR SERVER IS NOT DYING. we may have taken a hit on the endgame due to people transferring but thats the ONLY area where we lost numbers we are still getting a influx of new players coming to our server. The reason people are transferring are also getting kinda pathetic.. I have heard.. "We are wanting to be World First on clears in 3.0" << Bulls*** excuse, WORLD FIRST, server doesnt matter.. the other big one is "We are just tired of Coeurl, its dead." No its not and if yall would look outside of your clics yall would know this. I love some people that transferred and I still talk to them from time to time on Skype, but in all honesty the majority of them left because they weren't getting worshiped anymore; I'm not saying everyone left because of that but some definitely did. I'm not going to argue or talk about this anymore here if you want to get into simatics pm me and we can talk. but one last time OUR SERVER IS NOT DYING.

To what extent do we help people?- Do we Actively go out and try to convince people not to give up or do we wait for them to come to us?

We help people who want to be helped, I throw up PFs every so often but that is the most I will do to help people. Reason being those are the people that want help.

To what extent does helping become Carrying?

When the other players is getting told to kill themselves or not doing any of the mechanics

When we teach mechanics, do we tell them what the mechanics do or do we also teach them how to deal with said mechanics?

IMO, they should have at least watched a video explaining the mecanics now adjustments may have to happen cause you may not do it exactly like the video but they should have a rough idea of this.

How do we define parasites, and How do we deal with them?

If someone wants to get stuff done they will do everything in there power to get it done. They will learn the fights via df or watch videos.

If we come across a hostile casual, What is the appropriate response of being accused of showing off our E-Peens?

If they are hostile there's nothing you can do about it. We can not do anything about hostility if someone wants help though they are generally willing to learn or adjust. However if you come across someone who wont stop I would just say treat them like anyone else who wont stop being a dick.

Is it Reasonable to give up on a lost cause? What constitutes a lost cause?

Give up can be construed in many ways. I personally wont classify many people as a lost cause but the people I do its because they are just unwilling to learn, and they are just wasting your time cause they think its funny.

And Finally, how do we convince people to help those who don't care about them?

If they care they will come to us via PF or PMs from this post, or recommendations.

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Originally Posted by ClaireAbigail

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...onthly/201504/
The population is not shrinking...a lot of those fcs just popped out of nowhere with new people. Weird thing though is that I don't see a lot of the new people in More Doughnuts...

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I cant speak for others but I do spend a lot of time at my FC house.

I know this is a lil slow but Log Horizon is always open to help we may not have many members in FCoB but we are full of many helpful players.
We can help with gear builds, skill roations and even a few turns in coil (1-9). I my self have been playing FFXIV for years (1.0 bate) and I'm always happy to help. We even have a ts3 open to the server that you can jump on at any time and ask for help. If pming us is not working ^_^

I love this! I've been trying to bring people together to help each other with raids and the like through the ls I made, and it has been somewhat successful so far so I'm happy about that. I am getting to the point where I'm going to have to admit that I'm just not good at making/managing statics ^^; For whatever reason I just can't find people or convince them to keep coming every week. But I am decent at getting people together who are willing to help others!

My FC The Returners [RET] is definitely available for this, and I could probly find a day that we could dedicate to helping other people out. We're still a bit behind progression wise, but we're willing to learn and help out (at least I am)

I'm in that ls you made Torpah, so if you want to have any kind of meeting between FC leads, or a ts hangout just let me know. I don't see why Coeurl can't get it's shit together pretty easily if we all just put in a little extra time (maybe I'm just overly optimistic)

That's great to hear Skye. Feel free to add me in game and I'll assist however I can.

This thread happened when I couldn't check the forum, but I already love it <3

I'm already on Torpah's LS, but haven't clared T9 to be actually helpful on the IMPORTANT end game. But I'm always willing to help people with clears of whatever I've already mastered. My FC is still rebuilding it's own inner community, as we lost many players due to inactiveness and personal issues in the past, so I can't say we're on it as a group. But my bf Train Heartnet and I are always more than willing to help anyone, as we already do all the time anyway LOL He's progressing into FCoB in a couple statics here and there. Usually when someone needs help with content that's not too advanced I can build up a full party or close to it with friends and LS members.

(1k limit is the most annoying thing I've ever experienced......)

On my own note, I consider myself a fast learner and I can do any of the 3 roles well enough. Of course, if someone has any advice to give me at at given point of a fight, there is only room for improvement. I hope I'll be able to help with more content before Havensward.

I can tell there are a lot of helpful people in Coeurl who are willing to be more active in actually helping. They just need to meet each other/you guys LOL At the same time.. HOLY COW THERE ARE A LOT OF PLANTS! x_x There's a lot of fresh players who also need help going all the way to end game, I think it's something easier to do, personally. When someone is still leveling, you get to teach them their class properly from its roots and before the person develops any false confidence in their skills (or lack of them) and weird habits on the rotation, which would result into not listening to someone more experienced.

Well do to the lack of interest from a lot of endgame players I think I am going to give up on trying to get the community to help one another for those who are interest I am still willing to help PM me ingame, Torpah Mahes.

That being said I still have a Linkshell that I can invite whoever is interested in joining.

Whaaaaat no interest?!? Well I'm still super into this idea anyways, I'm in your ls and have you in mine so I'm sure we can network ;) As for my FC, we're hopefully going to be starting Server Charity days this Wednesday coming, so if you're on Wednesdays (especially in the evening) and need help with something, give us a shout! We'll do what we can :D And if people do want to help out this would be a great event to start in your own FCs, once a week is better than nothing!

Wahhh. I knew I should've joined the Forums sooner. Heheh...

My FC loves helping people. Though we're not the biggest ( about 70 people ) or on T13 ( 2 Statics. 1 on T12, the other on T11 ) we still try to help where we can..
I always jump on T5 or T9 clear parties when I can..

I think you should edit your post Callie, we're not allowed to "shame" people in the forums. Despite the fact I agree with you about the person, I don't want anyone getting in trouble here.

You guys are free to say what you want about me here doesn't change the fact that im making millions every week ^_^

No one has been talking about you for quite a while. You have you way of getting things done and it works for you. "WE" are discuss how we might help others. It's all good. Keep making your millions.

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Originally Posted by nariata_skye

Whaaaaat no interest?!? Well I'm still super into this idea anyways, I'm in your ls and have you in mine so I'm sure we can network ;) As for my FC, we're hopefully going to be starting Server Charity days this Wednesday coming, so if you're on Wednesdays (especially in the evening) and need help with something, give us a shout! We'll do what we can :D And if people do want to help out this would be a great event to start in your own FCs, once a week is better than nothing!

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cool well if i am on and free on wednesdays i will gladly join up and help out with whatever is needed :D.

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Originally Posted by Raegalia

Wahhh. I knew I should've joined the Forums sooner. Heheh...

My FC loves helping people. Though we're not the biggest ( about 70 people ) or on T13 ( 2 Statics. 1 on T12, the other on T11 ) we still try to help where we can..
I always jump on T5 or T9 clear parties when I can..

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Seraphina thats great ill look for you ingame and we can talk some more. ^.^

You missed the post that got taken down thats what my response was to :o

In that case, I apologize. Anyways, Good luck with your endeavors. Just remember to at least help some people from time to time.

I can only ask people to stop coming in here and slamming on others I would prefer this forum be a place for helping the server not boosting e-peen or hating on others e-peen. I dont care if you are making lots of money and you don't care to help. I see it as if you care to do anything with what I am trying to do then cool message me ingame and ill check this every other day or so, but please keep your hatred for others off of the forum and please keep your opinions out of this forum if you are anti what I am trying to do. Also

I realised I angered a lot of people for posting this and a lot of people have split ideas/feelings about this. I have gotten Hate ingame which is fine if you want to bitch about this thats cool come to me ingame I don't care. I have gotten bad responses "You need to kill yourself" to good responses "My FC is at your disposal we are willing to do whatever it takes to see this work." I knew I would for sure get both of these reactions after I posted this cause lets be honest its the "Internet" and "Anonymous", to an extent. If you are interested I am going to be talking to a lot of people in the upcoming weeks and am willing to help whoever needs it, time depending. I have thought up a few additional ways that we can continue this come 3.0. To those interested pm me and I will get you into a LS with others willing to help the cause.

If this offends you I don't really care. I am tired of hearing Endgame players on our server complain about people not being competent enough on there "Main" classes to raid and get shit done. If you want to complain then cool more power to you, but I am trying to make a difference. I WILL CONTINUE TO DO WHAT I HAVE BEEN WORKING ON it may take forever but I am always down to help people with their goals and would never turn down others who would be willing to help as well.

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Originally Posted by Mahes

.... I have gotten Hate ingame which is fine if you want to bitch about this thats cool come to me ingame I don't care. I have gotten bad responses "You need to kill yourself" .....

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That's messed up.

Keep doing what you're doing, dude.

As much as I believe that people are in no obligation to use their time to help others just because they've cleared endgame (after all, they are also paying for the game and can choose to play how they want), it's great to see that there are some people out there who are willing to use their time and help out the community for those who need it.

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Originally Posted by Mahes

I knew I would for sure get both of these reactions after I posted this cause lets be honest its the "Internet" and "Anonymous", to an extent.

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This is one of the reasons why I started the FB group. I feel players are less likely to be toxic when there's a face behind name. I've encouraged some players on Coeurl to join FB and they say they're not into that, which is fine, but there is a sense of community when some do.

I'll be seeing you in Coeurl soon.

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Originally Posted by burgerdude88

This is one of the reasons why I started the FB group. I feel players are less likely to be toxic when there's a face behind name. I've encouraged some players on Coeurl to join FB and they say they're not into that, which is fine, but there is a sense of community when some do.

I'll be seeing you in Coeurl soon.

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lol yup that is definately true and thanks Poutine :D

I go away for a few days and the forums to to hell and back over night... Can't I go away with out ppl trying to kill each other Q.Q

ANY WHO! How it going?.. I'm back some what if you guys need to talk or want to get a hold of me just massage me in- game after Monday.. There was a death in the family so me and Miyoko have been off line for this pass week. So I hope to be back and helping soon.

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Originally Posted by Lulu89

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My deepest condolences. Take your time we arent going anywhere.

Its hard to help out when there are people going around slandering my name getting me kicked from learning parties because i supposedly take time out of my day to go in and sabotage runs like lol what heheheheheheh

http://i.imgur.com/A0D24jO.gif

Yuzu, Aero plz if you want to bitch about shit please make another forum.

Also Yuzu I understand what you are saying about ppl slandering your name.. there are members of your own FC that went around and did it to me.. you just have to change people's minds if you want to see peoples opinions change. You have to push your epeen aside to become more approachable from people who are new and may have only heard bad things about you. I wont deny at one point I had a massive one but I pushed it aside and in all honesty it made a massive difference in what I could tell about my issue

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Originally Posted by Mahes

Yuzu, Aero plz if you want to bitch about shit please make another forum.

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Ironic that you say that, Torpah.

inc wall of text, in no way a reply to anyone in particular, just a statement overall

In all honesty, Yuzu is correct in his last post. He has done nothing to explicitly piss people off. Yes, he has a strong personality at times. Yes, he does frequently promote sell runs in /shout chat. And then? What did you expect? Why not transfer to Gilga or Levi or Jenova. You'll find the same types of promotion/personalities, if not different ones as well. Yuzu doesn't sabotage runs. Lol ? where did this come from. 4/10 points for trying, whoever made that one up. Yuzu's epeen? pls. thats like, what do you even base this on? Please show me quotes and screenshots of him ever shoving his epeen down anyones throat. Yeah, here and there I see it. But its in all of us. Don't point out one's flaws just because its easier to. Because from what's observed, a majority of the time its everyone else picking on him for existing lol. I think people are just jealous at anothers success tbh. Also some are too easy to fall for obvious, harmless trollage lol.

This is not the problem. It's this idea that there's a problem when in reality there isn't and everyone's just bored because the 3.0 lul is ahead of us. Stop this unnecessary drama. All it's done is make the endgame community laugh for 1-2 days and now it's old. Your first mistake was creating this evil image of us "sellers." We are the few who get shit done. We don't try our hardest, parse high, practice frequently, use HQ food/x-pots on every encounter, craft and meld four-star gear, and bang our heads on savage coil for nothing. Ironically, our small group does go out of our way to help players (outside of sells) whenever we see fit. We occasionally join t9/primal parties as 6-7 members and clear those for players for free. We accurately answer anyone's questions on specific jobs/fights to the best of our knowledge in hopes that they use it to their advantage when they come to us. People look up to some of us and can freely send us a /tell and we will more than likely get back to them on any question, comment, or concern they have in a calm and kind manner. Shoot, just cause I feel like being nice, I've been putting myself in PF for DRG lessons when I have free time from IRL/ingame. I promise you, this is more than anyone on this post has done in the entirety of this games existence.

My point is this image about us is incorrect. This "problem" on Coeurl is nonexistant. Doesn't matter if anyone decides to stay with this fabricated image in their head, the truth is the truth and we'll settle for that, lol. If you want to help people, do it if they 1.) ask for it politely, and 2.) are open and willing to learn and not be total dead weight. Because if not, leave them. I'm not buying this lollipops, sunshine, and rainbows post at all. Things are fine the way they are. Coeurl is not empty. Just because the majority of the endgame community left =/= Coeurl is a dead and mean server. Our server is bustling with new members each day (not counting RMTs), just stand in the 3 main cities+Mor Dhona for a day and watch. I'm done. I'm going to my elitist tree with all my dreadwyrm gear that I earned from weeks of practice and months of farming while I help people any way I can and I don't feel ashamed at all! \ o / <3 xoxo