More interesting loot please! Here are some ideas!

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Originally Posted by kyuven

And do you remember how people would devise macros for switching gear mid-battle, going so far as to switch gear between attacks?

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I would use 3 macros to cast a nuke as a BLM in FFXI, a few of the slots I changed in the first macro and again later to get my HP down for the ring latent effect.

We don't need to go to that extreme, but you already have many people that have alternate gear sets for the same job, to meet accuracy/HP needs at higher content or do more damage at easier content.

I would like at least a couple pieces of gear that don't get replaced every other major patch.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

We don't need to go to that extreme, but you already have many people that have alternate gear sets for the same job, to meet accuracy/HP needs at higher content or do more damage at easier content.

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Her point is moot anyway since FFXIV doesn't include in-battle gear swapping.

FFXI went overboard on this kind of gear, most likely due to the level cap not increasing for .. what? 7 years? Something like that?

FFXIV need not have this problem. If the special effects were limited to a particular gear slot, maybe job-specific rings, or your job-specific body and leg pieces or something like that, it'd be fine. The effects would have to not be outrageous, but ok that's fine. If an effect ends up being too good, you nerf it back into line. It's very simple.

The assumption that X gear will be required to perform Y piece of content pre-supposes that overpowered gear will stay overpowered.

Some random guy stating outrageous gear requirements to do a particular piece of content will NEVER go away. Ever. This guy exists whether gear is interesting or not, so let's make gear interesting.

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Originally Posted by Callinon

Her point is moot anyway since FFXIV doesn't include in-battle gear swapping.

FFXI went overboard on this kind of gear, most likely due to the level cap not increasing for .. what? 7 years? Something like that?

FFXIV need not have this problem. If the special effects were limited to a particular gear slot, maybe job-specific rings, or your job-specific body and leg pieces or something like that, it'd be fine. The effects would have to not be outrageous, but ok that's fine. If an effect ends up being too good, you nerf it back into line. It's very simple.

The assumption that X gear will be required to perform Y piece of content pre-supposes that overpowered gear will stay overpowered.

Some random guy stating outrageous gear requirements to do a particular piece of content will NEVER go away. Ever. This guy exists whether gear is interesting or not, so let's make gear interesting.

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Exactly. This game does not have gear swapping so none of that is relevant in the least. The devs already said this game won't have gear swapping.

I try to make the effects balanced, for example you have to pick and choose what you want to use however a lot of the things have a big penalty on them. Fights (none) should be balanced around using any of these abilities. They are gimmicks, but they are fun and are meant to change the way you play your character. However they do have risks using, lowering your movement speed is huge in most fights.

I have edited some of the jewelry again to make them a bit more balanced.

The idea of these pieces isn't to make them something you need to have, but to make your character more-so the way you want to.

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Originally Posted by Callinon

Some random guy stating outrageous gear requirements to do a particular piece of content will NEVER go away. Ever. This guy exists whether gear is interesting or not, so let's make gear interesting.

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Nope, that will always be there. =)

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

Gear in 1.0 had special effects like what the first post described. Not exactly like it, but they had special effects. White Mage AF pieces had boosts to healing potency, regen duration... in fact, all but one piece of AF was desirable over crafted because these special effects. Yoshida, though, didn't want players to be locked to a specific few pieces of gear like they were in 1.0, and what is normal in XI. So, he had the gear benefits reduced to just stat boosts, so people could wear whatever and still be viable in their roles. Whether this is the case or not is open to debate (the iL people versus the stats people) but there is no one gear set to rule them all. Would I like to see the return of special gear effects... sort of, but only if it's done in a way that it doesn't invalidate what we have now. Otherwise, no thank you.

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But there already IS one gear to rule them all! Or, two, rather: Augmented Ironworks, and Dreadwyrm. Two ilvl 130 options - if you're wearing ANY other equipment at all, it is inferior gear on the way to obtaining Augmented Ironworks or Dreadwyrm. If anything, the vertical equipment progression has left us with even LESS options. If players are going to deny you because of your gear, it's VERY easy for them to identify whether you meet their standards or not. ilvl 130? No? Then gtfo u gimp scrub.

If Yoshida wanted to avoid us being locked to one piece of gear (or two), he sure had a funny way of going about it. At least if we had these pieces of gear with special stats, the minmaxers would at least have to crunch some numbers before pulling out the snobbery.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

Gear currently has a 6 month lifespan. It would be nice to have a few pieces that are strong enough to survive a year, and be better than something 20 ilvls higher or more.

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This would be terrible! Personally I find the 6 moth cycle to be on the long side. I'd prefer if gear lasted about 3 months and then it was time to farm up the next level. But the current balance is good enough I suppose.

But I really have nothing to worry about. Yoshi talked about this issue before and already said he's nervous about doing anything like this.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

...the minmaxers would at least have to crunch some numbers before pulling out the snobbery.

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For me iL means jack all, it's about the stats they have. In this end crafted is superior given melding. I don't look at iL when I look for new gear, I look at the stats they have. iL doesn't make you better, it gives you tunnel vision.

These aren't bad idea's actually.
Current gear is very 1 way street and at the end of the day, we nearly play the EXACT same
as any one else. I like variety.

Personally I'll be very disappointed if we don't see unique stats and set pieces in the expansion. Just got my Mage Mythic 4set yesterday on WoW and it's extremely fun. As Arcane it periodically turns my Arcane Missiles into a bloody machine gun, and as Fire it sometimes gives me instant cast, 100% crit chance Pyroblasts for 4 seconds. Not only does it change my playstyle a bit, but it's super fun and really gives me a feeling of becoming far more powerful than I was before.

I added more cool items. =)

what we need is gear that enhances our skills!

but SE is scared about mandatory gear , or gear that is too good that even gear from the next tier wont reemplace it (something that happens already but...)

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

what we need is gear that enhances our skills!

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See I think that's the trap they're worried about too.

When you have gear that says something like: Dancing Edge +2

First off... wtf does that mean? Second, now you're talking about making specific skills strictly better than they were before you put the piece of gear on.

What if instead we had: Shadow Fang ticks occasionally reset the cooldown of Mug

It'd be hard to argue that this is op in any way and is a very minor dps increase. But it gives the NIN something to watch for, something to shake up the playstyle, and it IS a performance increase. It's also really obvious exactly what the effect is, which takes some of the guesswork out of how highly to value the piece of gear.

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Originally Posted by Callinon

See I think that's the trap they're worried about too.

When you have gear that says something like: Dancing Edge +2

First off... wtf does that mean? Second, now you're talking about making specific skills strictly better than they were before you put the piece of gear on.

What if instead we had: Shadow Fang ticks occasionally reset the cooldown of Mug

It'd be hard to argue that this is op in any way and is a very minor dps increase. But it gives the NIN something to watch for, something to shake up the playstyle, and it IS a performance increase. It's also really obvious exactly what the effect is, which takes some of the guesswork out of how highly to value the piece of gear.

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I think stuff like that should be on character traits, gear should have stuff for everyone - not specific classes.

The trait system should be revamped so you can select your skills and upgrades.

Gear that edits the value of abilities and makes them powerful are something that may be required for fights. Its because it changes the way abilities work, rather then giving you something that is outside your abilities.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Gear that edits the value of abilities and makes them powerful are something that may be required for fights. Its because it changes the way abilities work, rather then giving you something that is outside your abilities.

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Nobody is asking for occasionally attacks up to 8 times, stuff more along the lines for BLM as:
Auto-refresh under astral fire (currently the 2% every 3 seconds refresh is removed by AF)
Critical hit damage +10% (crit hits do +50% damage)
Thundercloud +1% (currently 5% chance)
Firestarter +5% (currently 40% chance)

None of it is gamebreaking, giving up a secondary stat for one of them would make them less so, and change playstyle slightly.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

I think stuff like that should be on character traits, gear should have stuff for everyone - not specific classes..

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Well we have a problem there because gear is not for everyone.

A WHM doesn't use the same gear as a NIN. A WAR doesn't use the same gear as a BRD.

These effects would be job-specific by necessity.

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Originally Posted by Callinon

Well we have a problem there because gear is not for everyone.

A WHM doesn't use the same gear as a NIN. A WAR doesn't use the same gear as a BRD.

These effects would be job-specific by necessity.

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On my idea list. If you notice they are for every class. Every class can have the desired jewelry effects even if they take a hit in stats. That is a sacrifice for not using something. However it doesn't mean they can't use it.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

Nobody is asking for occasionally attacks up to 8 times, stuff more along the lines for BLM as:
Auto-refresh under astral fire (currently the 2% every 3 seconds refresh is removed by AF)
Critical hit damage +10% (crit hits do +50% damage)
Thundercloud +1% (currently 5% chance)
Firestarter +5% (currently 40% chance)

None of it is gamebreaking, giving up a secondary stat for one of them would make them less so, and change playstyle slightly.

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Those sound like something that should be added as character traits, not as pieces for gear really.

I'm not saying they are bad ideas, however it just gives the developers a lot of work they need to do. When they could just add them on traits and not have to deal with it. The traits can be unlocked via achievements or quests.

The problem with traits like that is if they are class specific and not something everyone can use it becomes part of class balance as an issue. In which if you get a effect that is better then other classes people will complain about it, and its happened before.

However, when its on items everyone can use - its a fair playground. Nobody has a special item advantage over another.

I think classes themselves are way too similar and need more fun stuff to work with. Not exactly with gear though.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

On my idea list. If you notice they are for every class. Every class can have the desired jewelry effects even if they take a hit in stats. That is a sacrifice for not using something. However it doesn't mean they can't use it.

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Since there's a 0% chance SE would just use your exact list, I'm trying to discuss in broader context of how gear like this can be made to work.

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Originally Posted by Callinon

Since there's a 0% chance SE would just use your exact list, I'm trying to discuss in broader context of how gear like this can be made to work.

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I'm not asking them to use the exact list. Just saying that stuff you add needs to be something everyone can use. Another cool idea would be materia you can add to your character.

That is why I used jewelry all classes could use.

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Originally Posted by myahele

While I'd love gear to have more special effects attached to them, I can see how this will make other players more elitist than they currently are.

Instead of having multiple stackable effects via all these loot, why not make it so that materia gives off these special abilities? Also make it so that you can only have one equip at a given time?

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Leave Materia out of this... seriously have issues with the way we obtain Materia in game already... ugh.

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Originally Posted by otarolgam

Leave Materia out of this... seriously have issues with the way we obtain Materia in game already... ugh.

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Materia should be just stats, some crafted gear already has an advantage a bit.

However, there can be other ways to do it!
http://i.imgur.com/HqHxbKs.jpg
They can be items you equip on your character to give them unique procs and such.

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Originally Posted by Teuciont

This game is seriously lacking in fun effects on equipment. Yes please to the OP. Devs need to worry less about being so anal about balancing and worry more about having a fun game.

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That's just the thing, this game is balanced, sometimes too balanced. They can't put anything really cool as a passive effect on dungeon drops otherwise as a previous poster said, the gear becomes mandatory. Then you see everyone wearing exactly the same thing.

I'd rather "anything cool" as a passive effect be something that can be melded to gear rather than change the nature of the dungeon drops. That's kinda how FF7 did it anyway. I'd kinda prefer that some of the "Materia provides a cool effect/rare skill" be something, not just stat buffs.

But that would again mess with the balance in a way where someone melds w-cast + ultima to one BiS gear and just wipes the floor in FCoB or something.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

Then you see everyone wearing exactly the same thing.

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Are you implying that isn't the case right now? Every class has one set of BiS and everyone (who can obtain it) is wearing it. There is zero customization right now.

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Originally Posted by Callinon

Her point is moot anyway since FFXIV doesn't include in-battle gear swapping.

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Not exactly. You may not be able to swap in combat, but if you have items with certain effects you will be expected to have these items for the specific situations, and have them equipped during those situations.
For example, the aforementioned proc'ing fire bracelet would be REQUIRED for dungeon runs where defensive stats are less important than DPS, meanwhile anything that futzes with defenses will be REQUIRED for the bosses.
And once again I must bring up the point that FFXI never really addressed with sincerity and that this game is, by the dev's own admission, suffering from: Item storage space.
Starting next expansion, there will be 23 classes in this game. There are currently 25 slots in the armoury. Having "more options" for gear sounds "great" on paper, but we simply do not have the space for all those gear sets. Even if SE does expand the inventory, we will NOT have the room for as many sets as adding "fun n crazy" items would require.
As mentioned in my EQ1 example, this created a LOT of problems.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Materia should be just stats, some crafted gear already has an advantage a bit.

However, there can be other ways to do it!
http://i.imgur.com/HqHxbKs.jpg
They can be items you equip on your character to give them unique procs and such.

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This would be a more practical solution, so long as these items are balanced. Things like "Decreases MP consumption of Foe Requiem" or "Decrease recast time of Benediction" or "Increase Mana Regen of Shroud of the Saints by X%"
Stuff like that.

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Originally Posted by Zaft

Are you implying that isn't the case right now? Every class has one set of BiS and everyone (who can obtain it) is wearing it. There is zero customization right now.

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Not every class has a "fixed" BiS. There is some wiggle room to better fit personal playstyles, and the fact that there are plenty of options to attain those builds. It's not as robust as a lot of other games, but it doesn't NEED to be. This isn't Champions Online or Rift, after all. For some class certain stats just aren't worthwhile, rather than lacking options.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Those sound like something that should be added as character traits, not as pieces for gear really.

I'm not saying they are bad ideas, however it just gives the developers a lot of work they need to do. When they could just add them on traits and not have to deal with it. The traits can be unlocked via achievements or quests.

The problem with traits like that is if they are class specific and not something everyone can use it becomes part of class balance as an issue. In which if you get a effect that is better then other classes people will complain about it, and its happened before.

However, when its on items everyone can use - its a fair playground. Nobody has a special item advantage over another.

I think classes themselves are way too similar and need more fun stuff to work with. Not exactly with gear though.

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Even if they aren't job/class specific, one job/class will see a much greater boost than any other from any specialized boost that could be added, unless they are just novelty abilities. Your list is almost role exclusive, and with the way gear works they would either need a main attribute(s) or be an incredible boost to an ability, you even based them around the STR/VIT/DEX/INT/MND gear.

If SMN and BLM share the same boosts, it is very likely one will get much more use out of it than the other. Look at the 400 threads about spell speed on shared gear helping SMN in no way at all. If they aren't job targeted (even if equippable by all jobs) you will have jobs that complain about how other jobs get cool gear and all they get is useless junk.

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Originally Posted by kyuven

Not every class has a "fixed" BiS. There is some wiggle room to better fit personal playstyles, and the fact that there are plenty of options to attain those builds. It's not as robust as a lot of other games, but it doesn't NEED to be. This isn't Champions Online or Rift, after all. For some class certain stats just aren't worthwhile, rather than lacking options.

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Not really. Some slightly differ from fight to fight (for example, I wouldn't wear all STR jewelry as a WAR to T13 like I do T10-12), but there are specific, BiS sets that obtain the highest numbers.

You can choose to wear something else, but your performance will not be as high as the person who wears his BiS. Personal playstyle has nothing to do with BiS and min/maxing.

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Originally Posted by Zaft

Personal playstyle has nothing to do with BiS and min/maxing.

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Depends. There are enough situational differences and arguing as to what IS BIS for different jobs that there IS some flexibility. For example, the debate about how much skill speed is enough, and the BLM debate over crit and det.
Everyone has something they're comfortable or not comfortable with.

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Originally Posted by kyuven

Depends. There are enough situational differences and arguing as to what IS BIS for different jobs that there IS some flexibility. For example, the debate about how much skill speed is enough, and the BLM debate over crit and det.
Everyone has something they're comfortable or not comfortable with.

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Again, you can be more comfortable with one than the other, but one is going to give you higher throughput than the other. It may differ based on the fight, but one WILL be superior to the other, and that's not something that can be changed unless stats/skills are changed. For example, let's pretend that, for fight X, set #1 gives 500 DPS and set #2 gives 520 DPS. Set #2 is clearly better. You might prefer set #1 because you're more comfortable with that stat allocation, but you are not maximizing your potential.

It's similar to Fire and Arcane Mages right now on WoW. As you can see below, both Fire and Arcane are very good choices, and are only a few percent apart. However, in a Patchwerk style boss fight, it is clear that Arcane is the superior choice. There's no debate, it's just math.

http://i.imgur.com/RbQSMPG.jpg

Using BLM as an example, as that is what I main...
I WOULDN'T want the effects to be a permanent passive boost (eg increased DEF 5%) as I think this is the sort of gear that people might insist you have or kick you (if that ever became an issue).
I WOULDN'T want it to be something like an increase to my proc chance (+1% chance of thunder proccing thundercloud, so 6% in total) - am I going to notice a increase in procs I receive? probably not. When I do get a proc, do I know if it's because of this new funky gear or not? No.
I WOULD want it to be a chance of something proccing (I think by only being a chance it's not game-breaking enough that anyone could insist you have that gear), something that I don't currently have, so when it does happen I know "ah thank you special loot, you did this :)". Which is why I suggested flare proc, or maybe convert CD reset, +20% SS for 20 secs

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Originally Posted by Zaft

Again, you can be more comfortable with one than the other, but one is going to give you higher throughput than the other. It may differ based on the fight, but one WILL be superior to the other, and that's not something that can be changed unless stats/skills are changed. For example, let's pretend that, for fight X, set #1 gives 500 DPS and set #2 gives 520 DPS. Set #2 is clearly better. You might prefer set #1 because you're more comfortable with that stat allocation, but you are not maximizing your potential.

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That's because of the current stats, BiS for damage comes down to highest ilvl, cap accuracy, get crit/det as secondaries.

A boost to crit damage and a different piece with TP cost reduction could make viable crit hit heavy builds and skill speed heavy builds.

Just want to add my 2 cents to this. I'd just like to see some rare/unique gear. In ffxi you didn't need to have leaping boots, but if you really wanted a stat boost for your jobs at an early level you could camp leaping lizzy. The stat boost wasn't earth shattering but in my opinion it did help. I just wish there were better alternatives, rare items that we could go after instead of just, crafted/dungeon drop item. In 1.0 we had rare spawn monsters who dropped rare items. They were marginally better than what was available at your current level.No one ever said to me I won't party with your bard because you don't have an owl's bow. This dropped from jackanapes, a rare nm that spawned every five minutes. It took me like 25 kills before I got the drop with a buddy of mine. Did I need it? Nope. Was it rare and some other people might not have it and did I think that was kind of cool? Yup. I wish that 14 would add some things like this to keep those of us who like hunting down rare gear busy. I loved hunting lesser nm's in 11 and showing up to a party and having someone say, whoa, what's a mist silk cape? Where'd you get it? Oh it drops from a NM named spiny spipi! I loved hunting nm's it's something I sorely miss in 14.

Sorry a bit of a ramble, below are the stats of leaping boots compared to what was offered at that level range.

Leaping boots - dropped from a notorious monster leaping lizzy
Level 7 - Def 3 - Dex 3 - Agi 3

Leather Highboots
level 7 - Def 2

I would like Bowl of Embers drop a housing item that is a literal bowl of embers.

I think additional effects are a good idea, and I like the concept behind Primal drops granting unique effects to abilities based on their element.

But it is beyond my ability to gauge balancing.

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Originally Posted by Kio

I would like Bowl of Embers drop a housing item that is a literal bowl of embers.

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Has warped my brain
Just realized all this time, for some unknown reason (I can read), I've always called it Bowel of Embers
And now thinking about it, I realize how wrong that is

i wouldn't mind this, so long as the buff ideas were a little more balanced.

these items seem like something we would have in a single player rpg atm.

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Originally Posted by saber_alter

i wouldn't mind this, so long as the buff ideas were a little more balanced.

these items seem like something we would have in a single player rpg atm.

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Well, I designed them so the effects are useful for every class, situationally. The stats on the items I would actually remove. Like I would remove secondary stats and replace them with effects and just "Vitality" so every class could use them. ((Since Vitality is important for everyone.))

Or make a new slot for them.

However, I would not make "Job" only type stuff, that goes way beyond what should be on items. Those should be set bonuses, or class skills.

The reason it wouldn't be mandatory, because some of the more powerful effects actually have downsides to them that counter the effects. For example, the 7% damage reduction is extremely countered by the 15% reduced movement speed, for you may not avoid one aoe and that could ruin your team!

Some of the items change how you play your class, like the Ramuh item can turn you into a tank if you need to tank something but can't find a tank. Form your own group and tank it yourself! The item lets you do that with any class, however you won't be as good as a real tank and may lose aggro a lot. However its a lot better then trying to do it with no tank. It makes that play-style a choice.

However, yes! They are fun items, they are not meant to be something you "need" to compete.

For example, if the item reduced a class or job skill like..
"Reduces the cool-down of Circle of Storn by 10 seconds."
"Reduces the cool-down of Sentinel by 90 seconds."

Stuff like this becomes part of your rotation, so having this stuff on gear is actually a REALLY bad idea, it also super affects balance concerns, especially for DPS!

However, the items I proposed effects everyone pretty similarly! Give or take a few situational advantages!



However: I do want to see "Class Traits" like this!
"Fast Blade, Savage Blade, Rage of Halone has a 5% chance to reset the cool-down of circle of scorn.

I'm all for additional stats on gear. While FFXI can never directly be compared to this game because of gear swapping mid-combat, some form of horizontal progression would be nice to see again and it lets old content remain useful.

I currently find the rotation of one superior end-game dungeon at a time to be quite boring and miss having a few to jump into for different kinds of gear.

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Originally Posted by Trenma

I'm all for additional stats on gear. While FFXI can never directly be compared to this game because of gear swapping mid-combat, some form of horizontal progression would be nice to see again and it lets old content remain useful.

I currently find the rotation of one superior end-game dungeon at a time to be quite boring and miss having a few to jump into for different kinds of gear.

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I remember doing a dungeon 138 times for a single piece of gear. Now its like: Whatever, my gear is only 2 stats better.. woopteedoo.

I barely care about gear in the game, sides the weapon. Only thing that matters really.

Just my own two gil here. Interesting loot is a quandary that is difficult to broach, since due to the common elitism that MMORPGs tend to harbor, adding in incomparable, at least early on, is likely to result in there being "best combinations." For example, if you were to add in three sets of tanking armor for Warriors, one that enhanced critical strike effectiveness, one that enhanced vampiric abilities (Bloodbath, Storm's Path, ect), and one that enhanced the Warrior's speed of attack, one would likely be better than the others simply due to math. However, the best way to avoid this would be to add gear that completely changed your playstyle. Such as gear that, still using Warrior as an example, would allow your Butcher's Block combos to produce low enmity but your Storm's Path combos to produce high enmity. You effectively remain the same, but it would allow for you to main tank bosses and keep your debuffs up rather than having to chose between enmity, defense, and more damage it changes that choice to enmity and defense, more overall damage, or more damage done at that moment.